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Q&A Ambitions as a Plumber; A Mario FAQ

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
That's not a very standard Luigi. But.

In general, you'd want to limit his ground movement with your fireballs, and if you manage to get him into the air, combo with quick, shffl'd uairs. You don't want to be near him any longer than you have to be in the air, because his fair, nair and dair are quite good, and you don't want to be on the receiving end of them.

Feel free to hit his shield though, as long as you don't use something super laggy, his low traction will make shield grabbing quite hard for him.

But first thing's first, learn to control your character completely. That's the ground work you have to have.
 

SoldierRift

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
251
Location
Hawaii bruh
How do you do Marios U-air combo.

I came up with some problem thats affecting me form not doing it.

1. My mario does a double jump to the flip (how can I stop that?)

Well can you give me tips anyway please.
 

onedayafter7

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
181
Location
SoCal
I think its because you are holding up+A. It can be done this way but you have to smash up and hit A at the same time or else you will tap jump and then to the uair. Instaed try to shorthop with y or x and then quickly tap the c stick up. This won't cause you to use your second jump plus you can still DI with your normal control stick, Then l cancel and repeat. Shffl that until it seems like the next hit will send them to far away to combo again and follow up with a fsmash or nair or something.
 

Airwalkerr

Smash Journeyman
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Small Town Alberta, Canada
I just want to confirm a few of my theories about Mario, or disprove them if they are wrong. 15 button taps in under a second results in the highest possible gain of Mario's down+b, although only 12 is necessary to gain height. The up+b walljump trick on Yoshi's story (other stages if your mad precise) is only possible to perform 5/6ths of the way towards the peak of the height gain, and only available for 1 frame. Bairing into a waveland requires a rising bair SH which autocancels before you hit the ground? Or is it only buffer cancelled if you waveland it? And one last factual question, drop-cancelling Mario's nairrequires the drop and the nair to be nearly at the exact same time, with the smallest window of oppurtunity out of any drop-cancelled move in this game, and only if a sheild or enemy is stationed on the same platform. Please correct or confirm my logic.
 

Rkey

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
490
Location
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Hi guys, just picked up Mario and I'm new here. Read a lot in the thread though.

I have a problem with using down-b effectively (I'm talking recovery, ofc). I'm not fast enough so I developed this technique where I hold down, then tap b with all my right hand fingers, except my thumb, one at a time rapidly (like if I was scratching the button, don't really know how to explain), and then I mash with my index finger.

I have time to shift my grip of the control after I cape so I can do this while recovering (it goes as high as the center platform of FoD when i do it right), but I was just wondering how you guys do it? Is it just about speed, should I learn this tech (since it's kind of unique and stuff) or is there an easy way to do it?
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Well if it works, then do it. If it doesn't, then don't.

I think most people just press it really fast.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
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Messages
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Location
College Park, MD
I don't think there's a "correct" way to down-b. Not many people can do it well, so if you've figured out a way to consistently get the height you need, then by all means continue with that method.
 

Rkey

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
490
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Cool, thanks guys : )

I'll maybe get a video up for this since you know, I'm not uick enough yet I can do it anyway. Might be helpful to people.

Or maybe not xD
 

onedayafter7

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
181
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SoCal
hmmm. would that still aply? I know that doc and mario have some similarities. And i know mario can chainthrow so. It should work. probably not exactly at the same percents and stuff.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
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So I'm trying to learn how to combo Marth out of a grab. At zero percent, dthrow upsmash and dthrow utilt don't have enough hitstun at zero to lead into anything. However, down-b combos from a dthrow at zero. Assuming they don't have godly smash DI, the down-b puts Marth right in front of you for a jab regrab.

So dthrow > down-b. Thoughts?
 

Rkey

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
490
Location
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So I'm trying to learn how to combo Marth out of a grab. At zero percent, dthrow upsmash and dthrow utilt don't have enough hitstun at zero to lead into anything. However, down-b combos from a dthrow at zero. Assuming they don't have godly smash DI, the down-b puts Marth right in front of you for a jab regrab.

So dthrow > down-b. Thoughts?
I tried it too, it works, and I've never seen it done. This can mean either:

- It sux
- It's new and therefore really good

I'll keep trying to see which one it is : )
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
I tried it too, it works, and I've never seen it done. This can mean either:

- It sux
- It's new and therefore really good

I'll keep trying to see which one it is : )
"It's either bad, or good."

XP

Is the Mario Tornado like Doc's in that the first hit is always a phantom?
 

j3ly

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
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Location
London
u throw -> uair combos (by training mode) from 0% , but you probably wont be able to follow up with another move which is 'comboed' unless the uair is auto canceled. Also i oubt there is enough time to make it a true combo if you use the cstick, but like, only peach would be able to nair outta it that quickly. I normally follow that up with an usmash -> ftilt -> uair -> dsmash/fsmash/uair/nair depending on their DI. But at such a low % , Di for these setups shouldn't affect so much

uthrow -> dair (FF 1/2way through) -> DJ uair/dair/nair is also a combo. I normally like to follow the DJ with an uair, then at least 90% of the time the Marth will be within dair floor hitbox-radius. After that a weak nair -> utilt, (the training mode combo has long since passed tho) -> x1 / x2 uair -> fsmash, for a nice little 0-death. If we are near the edge and they DI towards it, ill substitute the dair for a bair to get them closer then ftilt, maybe they will jump into it

when they DI out of it (which is reasonably likey but not fully cos their being pushed towards the edge at a really low % then fsmashed), they will be within the x2 uair in 1 jump setup %, which should be a kill anyway

i have tonnes of setups for all the characters if anyone cares, or needs, DI and edges + platforms included

on YS you can also get in 2 uairs before mario lands onto the platform. its really tricky but sometimes i like to uthrow -> uair x2 -> jab -> platform dropped uair. mmmmm a platform canceled nair would be so much nicer though

The first hit of down B is also a phantom, yeah. Hitbox is by the top of his hand
 

j3ly

Smash Champion
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Mar 19, 2009
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i other news, uair combos into dair floor hitbox at around 70-80% i just found out. neva knew that 1. and that hitbox is really hard to get by itself, really nice tho
 

Rkey

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
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490
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"It's either bad, or good."

XP

Is the Mario Tornado like Doc's in that the first hit is always a phantom?
More like it's either really good or really bad.

And yes, I think that's the case. I'm starting to think this might actually suck >_>
 

Airwalkerr

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Small Town Alberta, Canada
hmmm. would that still aply? I know that doc and mario have some similarities. And i know mario can chainthrow so. It should work. probably not exactly at the same percents and stuff.
I've tried it on Fox so far, and it works out. Whereas the u-throw chaingrab is all about predicting DI and fallowing accordingly, the d-throw chaingrab( which works best at around 60, starts at 54) is all about speed regrabbing. You have to buffer the grab pretty much the moment they hit the ground from your last throw. Turning is necessary if they DI behind you, putting some pressure on you. Yea, d-throw chaingrab (on Fox at least) starts as u-throw ends, and can get up to 90-ish, which is when you can smash for a kill (or at least an edgegaurd).

I assume it works the same for Falco. I gotta test it out on Falcon though, he might be different.
 

Rkey

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As usual, I got served when fighting my friends a couple of days ago, and I can't really tell what I'm doing wrong. It's not that I'm really bad, I mean they are like top class players (friends of Armada if you know him, the Mango of Europe). I Now Shabawd and stuff like that too, but it's not enough.

Basically, they put a lot of pressure on me, and every once in a while where I manage to do something back, they got something to counter that and pressure is back on me. I think the problem might be that my defensive game is really bad, is there anything I should think about to improve my defensive game?

I know one thing myself, I'm still not too confident in using Mario and tend to look at my own character from time to time instead of theirs, but what defensive strategies are there for Mario?
 

InterimOfZeal

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
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Aurora, Colorado
Rkey, you can also try putting pressure on them.

What characters do they play as? If it's Fox/Falco/Falcon, learn their approaching habits and tendencies. Our local CF used to walk all over me with nairs. I started waiting until he was at a specific distance and I saw him SH, then I'd wd slightly back and nail him with Peach's dtilt (she pulls back a little, so I dodged it), or just stand there and usmash with Peach (has invul, beats all non-disjointed aerials, and leads to combos). Now he baits stuff like the usmash by doing empty SHs at a certain range, so I use that as a time to pull a turnip and go on the offensive/set up a wall.

Of course, with Mario/Doc it's a little different. When I suspect a Fox/Falco is going to come down with a nair, I either CC and dsmash, or wd back a little and angle an fsmash up to where they're going to be. Sometimes I cape (not with Mario, tho. I dun like his cape). If I suspect that they're gonna start dair bs, I either get out of there and set up a projectile offense/defense, or I usmash, or I just jump to where they're going to have to be in order to start it, and toss out an aerial.

I should try caping those, too. Hmm....
 

Rkey

Smash Journeyman
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I'm starting to realize that most of the time the problem is really that I think "I want to do this", and my technical skill is just not enough so I fail like 30% of the time, which ain't good.

Also, spacing the f-tilt helped some, and I learned to see when my opponent was going to sheild so I could get more grabs och Fox and Falcon. Falco is still too though, but I'll be working on that.

And for good pressure I know you need more confidence in your character, which I am yet to develop. Also: "learn their approaching habits and tendencies", I'm doing more and more. But still, I just entered the competetive scene like 4 months ago or so and sometimes I just play 2-3 hours a week, so I'm not getting progress too rapidly : (
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
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How many advanced techs are there with Mario? @_@

I mean, the SHBAWD is reasonably difficult, but I rarely find a need to use it... outside of that... there's like... the Super Jump Punch glitch... and the rest is just... basic generic stuff.
 

Rkey

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Then basic generic stuff is what I fail at, if that's what you wish to call it. But hey, I can do all of the stuff, it's just that doing it all quick, consecutive with precision is what I fail at.

Do you think that I might be setting the goal for what I'm doing to high, and that it would be more reasonable to move on a plain where I'm confident with my style of play? What I'm doing now is basically trying to look like Eggz all the time, should I keep on doing that or is it better to slowly progress?
 

Airwalkerr

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Aiming to play like a 2007 Mario player is not a good aspiration. ;) From what I;ve seen of recent matches, his Mario is pretty fail-sauce. Not to say I WOULDN'T get 3 stocked by M2K, but I agree with PM. Play your own style. I've even had d-tilt work in my style, albeit poorly, but that just goes to show each player, especially with Mario, has differnt tastes and styles.
 

Rkey

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So we've come to this: I should develop my own style by playing more, simply put. Wherever I go and however I think, it all comes down to this:

Play the game, get better.

Really, the best way to get good at the game is to play it, am I correct?
 

-PM-

Smash Ace
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If you realize it or not you play a certain way and chances are the majority of the choices you make are wrong and to be better you have to fix them.

simple enough.
 

Airwalkerr

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I dunno about the majority of choices you make are wrong. You just have to think fast in Melee, and have the muscle memory to react. Nothing comes easy, it takes much practice. I've trained for 2 years, and now my friends refuse to play me. Time for a tourney, if only I had a way to get there. :p
 
Joined
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Aiming to play like a 2007 Mario player is not a good aspiration. ;) From what I;ve seen of recent matches, his Mario is pretty fail-sauce. Not to say I WOULDN'T get 3 stocked by M2K, but I agree with PM. Play your own style. I've even had d-tilt work in my style, albeit poorly, but that just goes to show each player, especially with Mario, has differnt tastes and styles.
My Mario was playing like *** in that set. I'm pretty confident im still the best mario or one of the best marios by far

-Eggz
 

Rkey

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If you realize it or not you play a certain way and chances are the majority of the choices you make are wrong and to be better you have to fix them.

simple enough.
But then again, there is not a "perfect" way to play, since if you would always use "the best action", you would be horribly easy to read.
 

onedayafter7

Smash Apprentice
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Dec 24, 2008
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untrue. the point of "best" would be that it is the perfect. and therfor not readable or anything but effective.
 

Dynamism?

Smash Champion
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BC, Canaaaanada
I agree with eggz
He *****

BTW, by the time TP4 roles around, I'm gonna try and get a Mario and become at least dece with him. BUUUUT I need to see you play more so get some more epic **** recorded with ottos new gizmo **** and post it!!! And play a bit at Ka returns tourney so I can watch too.
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
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new? None.

I've been the mario board mod for a few months now. Probably longer (I forgot when I got picked up.) You also could hit arcnatural up.

Why? Sup?
 

Dynamism?

Smash Champion
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sweeet thanks shane
also, you tamper in Doc/is it 'not ridiculously hard' to switch between them/doesn't mess you up playing both/anything like that?

I like Doc too >_>
 

Dogysamich

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It's not hard to switch between them at all. All you need to know are the huge differences.


*Dogy's Off-the-wall-but-very-accurate-reference: Think of it as switching between Ken and Ryu in just about ANY SF

-Note: Sorry, I kinda realize I started this with the Doc-to-Mario comparison.-

Differences between Doc and Mario:

1) Mario's aerials have less lag than Doc's. L-cancelled or not.
-Normally a frame or two.
-This is important because when you play Doc, you can't come out of stuff as fast as Doc.
**THIS IS NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH MARIO ATTACKS FASTER THAN DOC. He can do more attacks, but his attacks COME OUT at the same speed**

2) Mario's F.smash is completely usable for zoning, where as Doc's really isn't.
-This alone makes Doc's harder Matchups (Marth, Sheik, Falcon) easy for Mario.

3) Mario has capelift, Doc only has capestall.
-So that means Mario can do SH Cape -> Aerial, where as Doc can only do SH Cape -> (perfect)Waveland.
*Note: Doc can actually do SH Cape -> Aerial, but he can ONLY do a 1 frame n.air.

4) Mario's u.tilt is actually worth two flips. Doc's is just a "go away" kind of thing. (More often than not)
-This is pretty much THE main reason why Mario can combo the crap out of stuff and Doc can't.

5) Mario's u.smash is (at times) a usable kill move, where as Doc's has a double standard.
-If Doc upsmashes somebody on the ground, it hits with the meteor smash animation. If he hits them in the air, it's a regular hit.

6) Mario's fireballs are more of an offensive projectile, Doc's tend to be defensive.
-Both of them can do THE EXACT SAME SHENANIGANS with their projectiles. -glares at eggz-
-Mario's fireballs follow the decayed height rule (If you throw from FH, it bounces at SH, sh to ground), where as Doc's Pills bounce to the same height.
-This makes it easier for Doc to control airspace with his projectiles, making some of Mario's more difficult matches easier (Jiggs)

7) Mario's recovery is better than Doc's.
-Mainly because of Capelift vs Capestall.
-Also the obvious Mario can frickin walljump. XD

8) Mario's jab combo can be a legit mixup, where as Doc's tends to be a gimmick.

9) Mario, overall, has less KO power than Doc.
-I personally don't think this matters if you're good at gimping, but if you just flat out need KO power, then yeah, you'll get more with Doc.

10) Mario's n.air is strong-to-weak (normal), where as Doc's is weak-to-strong.
-Mario's tend to send people off stage with N.air. You're not going to be doing alot of that with Doc unless you get your n.air out there for a while

11) Forward airs.
*I'm only adding this for good measure. It's kinda obvious.

12) Capes.
-Doc's cape has more HITBOXES (not reflect boxes, HITBOXES) than Mario's.
-BOTH ARE THE SAME LENGTH, (Doc's is just "wider")
-Both have the same reflect box.

13) up+b wall jump and up+b cancel.
-stuff-

That's really it off the top of my head. I started kinda ranting on on some obvious stuff.

But the big thing is, note the stuff I didn't say.

No false bs about Mario moving faster or jumping higher than Doc, and nothing about Doc being heavier. A lot of people think that kinda **** is true.

There are absolutely no character mechanic differences between Mario and Doc (save walljump), only move properties.

That means if you were to go whatever practice mode you do, and just maneuver around a level, it's going to feel EXACTLY THE SAME.

____

.... Does that answer your question? ^_^
 
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