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All right, give me a good reason why everyone says Falcon sucks.
- Thread starter JohnAnon
- Start date
trafficwarden99
Smash Journeyman
Brawl is not Melee??
Captain Falcon had combos in smash 64 by the way too.
Captain Falcon had combos in smash 64 by the way too.
Falcon...Puuunch!
Smash Cadet
It's not so much that he's bad, persay, he's just a lot worse then melee without his spammable knee.
SirroMinus1
SiNiStEr MiNiStEr
he lacks priority. thats about it
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
Also has trouble landing his killing moves
SirroMinus1
SiNiStEr MiNiStEr
yea thats a big one
BananaTrooper
Smash Journeyman
Search these boards a bit, it ain't hard to find answers.
KageJuin
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2008
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that doesn't make him worse, but different, think about new combo's don't be a n00b at gaming and think he'll be the same, please
this means it would take more skill to play as him, making a Falcon player a pretty good one (if he/she own)
it's way too easy to spam MK B all the way till death
this means it would take more skill to play as him, making a Falcon player a pretty good one (if he/she own)
it's way too easy to spam MK B all the way till death
trafficwarden99
Smash Journeyman
Falcon's uptilt does not combo. And that's basically the most universal combo as of now.
GodotAA
Smash Ace
...because hes horrible...
apmpnmdslkbk
Smash Journeyman
The only reason other people say that falcon sucks is because they are all jealous of his manlyness.
Falcon rules theres just no denying it.
Falcon rules theres just no denying it.
WastingPenguins
Smash Ace
So much noobness in this thread...
How about instead telling us the things about Falcon that are actually good? His main problem is one that Sonic faces as well-- his quickness can't really make up for his utter lack of priority. The great thing about Melee Falcon was that his low priority wasn't a big deal, because with l-canceling you could utilize his quickness to get in a hit and then continue with some great combos. Brawl Falcon doesn't work that way because his moves don't combo into each other, at all. Really what you're reduced to is a much less maneuverable Falcon who has to rely on hit and run tactics with his low priority ground game. What REALLY hurts is what's already been said-- the few good KO moves he has are unreliable and difficult to land. The new knee hitbox makes no sense-- Falcon doesn't really have the means to set up for it.
So again... what's GOOD about Falcon? Unless you want to sit and parrot the same vague insubstantive Brawl isn't Melee tripe that adds absolutely nothing to the conversation.
How about instead telling us the things about Falcon that are actually good? His main problem is one that Sonic faces as well-- his quickness can't really make up for his utter lack of priority. The great thing about Melee Falcon was that his low priority wasn't a big deal, because with l-canceling you could utilize his quickness to get in a hit and then continue with some great combos. Brawl Falcon doesn't work that way because his moves don't combo into each other, at all. Really what you're reduced to is a much less maneuverable Falcon who has to rely on hit and run tactics with his low priority ground game. What REALLY hurts is what's already been said-- the few good KO moves he has are unreliable and difficult to land. The new knee hitbox makes no sense-- Falcon doesn't really have the means to set up for it.
So again... what's GOOD about Falcon? Unless you want to sit and parrot the same vague insubstantive Brawl isn't Melee tripe that adds absolutely nothing to the conversation.
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
CF is considered so horrible because he's a Melee character in Brawl Engine, was apparently is a HORRIBLE mix and has ruined what he was in Melee. His comboing potential was what made him in Melee, without that it really cripples his game. He has Atrocious Priority, since a great majority of his moves can be stopped by a simple jab. Average strength attack with either a lot of ending lag or Startup lag, that don't even do damage worth it. He cannot approach AT ALL, he's probably one of the easiest characters to camp once you get into high levels of play, easily telegraphed, has trouble racking up damage, nerfed Knee, the fact that so many others either are great newcomers, or Veterans that got buffed. When you add to the fact he has likely the worst matchups in the game and Horrible Tourney outing so far, he definately at this point in time is a serious canadate for the worst character in Brawl. This saddens me heavily because CF was my secondary from Melee, and it pains me to see how far he's fallen.
-Actually, Sonic's quickness can make up for his lack of priority, plus he has spring, d-air, and physics abuses like spin shot to make up for his lack of vertical speed and air speed. At the moment, I still don't know Falcon's redeeming qualities, aside from his multiple spikes, good recovery, and decent knockback on almost all his moves. His speed doesn't help him punish too well, IMO. He does have quite some reach though.
-The new knee hitbox is his knee. It makes alot more sense than his knee hitbox being his body.
-Brawl Falcon isn't Melee Falcon. All the other veteran characters (maybe except Marth) got past that already. I'm still getting the feeling that people are still trying to play Brawl Falcon like Melee Falcon.
Also, I'd like anyone who hasn't already to put down some answers in the short Falcon Playstyle Survey
Ayato
Smash Apprentice
Don't we already have two topics to the same affect on the first page? My question to you is this: why repeat this discussion, again?
The one way to answer this thread, and all who continue to state Falcon is "Worst in the Game" or is "Terrible", is that he's just got a new Meta-Game. Sure, he lacks priority, but there are ways around it are there not?
MY ANSWER: SPAM FALCON KICK WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
MY ANSWER: SPAM FALCON KICK WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
BananaTrooper
Smash Journeyman
This is exactly what I'm thinking. I really can't understand why such depressing topics draw out the biggest crowds.
hippochinfat!!
Smash Lord
That's just the way it is...some things will never change.
I've said this so many times before but here goes again:
Knee sucks
Dair sucks
Can't combo into Knee
Can't combo into Dair
That's it ladies and gentlemen. Those four things just by themselves make Falcon terrible. Sure he has a plethora of other problems like priority, range, and lack of reliable kill moves, but really those four things I named are enough to ruin him by themselves.
Knee sucks
Dair sucks
Can't combo into Knee
Can't combo into Dair
That's it ladies and gentlemen. Those four things just by themselves make Falcon terrible. Sure he has a plethora of other problems like priority, range, and lack of reliable kill moves, but really those four things I named are enough to ruin him by themselves.
gaborap
Smash Journeyman
capt falcon is the man!!!!!!!!!!! his falcon punches are devestating
Iwan
Smash Ace
terrible priority.
/thread?
lol.
/thread?
lol.
GodotAA
Smash Ace
The best way to get around falcons flaws is to use him in free for alls and just turnaround falcon punch and kill everyone.
Iwan
Smash Ace
Okay...there's one more thing i wanted to address in this thread....
Is everyone really under the impression that the knee "isn't as good" because of the hit box? It's not the hit box that makes the move worse from melee, and it's not the priority. The melee Knee never had "great" priority. It seems like there's this big misconception about the Knee and how in melee, it had this giant *** hit box, and out prioritized everything.
It really has so little to do with either of those though. Thing is, if brawl had hit stun, the knee would still be one of the best KO moves in this game. period.
Really, what made the knee great in melee was that you could combo into it. You could set up people, and finish it off with a knee, because your opponent couldn't just Airdodge or throw out an aerial as you were going to knee them. Because Hit stun lasted more than long enough to chain attacks into the knee.
People have adjusted to the sweet spot hitbox on the knee, it's just that Falcon players aren't getting a "free shot" at someone like they were in melee. Hit stun made it so your opponent was idle in the air if you were quick enough (and with wavedashing and l-canceling, people were quick enough).
So in comparison to brawl, the knee was easy to hit with. Not because of a giant hit box or godly priority, but because it could be comboed into.
I know a lot of you already know this lol....but some don't, and I just wanted to clear that up.
kthanks
Is everyone really under the impression that the knee "isn't as good" because of the hit box? It's not the hit box that makes the move worse from melee, and it's not the priority. The melee Knee never had "great" priority. It seems like there's this big misconception about the Knee and how in melee, it had this giant *** hit box, and out prioritized everything.
It really has so little to do with either of those though. Thing is, if brawl had hit stun, the knee would still be one of the best KO moves in this game. period.
Really, what made the knee great in melee was that you could combo into it. You could set up people, and finish it off with a knee, because your opponent couldn't just Airdodge or throw out an aerial as you were going to knee them. Because Hit stun lasted more than long enough to chain attacks into the knee.
People have adjusted to the sweet spot hitbox on the knee, it's just that Falcon players aren't getting a "free shot" at someone like they were in melee. Hit stun made it so your opponent was idle in the air if you were quick enough (and with wavedashing and l-canceling, people were quick enough).
So in comparison to brawl, the knee was easy to hit with. Not because of a giant hit box or godly priority, but because it could be comboed into.
I know a lot of you already know this lol....but some don't, and I just wanted to clear that up.
kthanks
Now, a parting word from sakurai to you captain falcon noobs: L2P
Seriously. The knee is even more powerful than in melee, you just need to hit with it at the start of the animation.
Also, priority is less an issue in brawl because of all the powershielding and air dodging mechanics. Captain falcon as passed from being a combo character to a momentum character.
I agree he is not easy to play, but ultimately, I think he will show his merits on the competitive scene.
Seriously. The knee is even more powerful than in melee, you just need to hit with it at the start of the animation.
Also, priority is less an issue in brawl because of all the powershielding and air dodging mechanics. Captain falcon as passed from being a combo character to a momentum character.
I agree he is not easy to play, but ultimately, I think he will show his merits on the competitive scene.
I agree Iwan... sort of. The Knee still isn't reliable enough no matter how good you get at it. I mean I was actually getting some nice sweetspots yesterday at the tourney, even against the really good players, but there were still many times when I was like "YES, SWEETSPOT!!!" only to have it be a gimp. Even a sitting duck won't get sweetspotted everytime unless they're literally standing still. I agree that it all comes down to non-comboability and lack of hitstun in the game, but even if we were still in Melee physics, the Knee wouldn't be as good. In one of the matches I played with IcantWin today, he Kneed me when I was at 130% and I didn't die. So the power is not quite what it was in Melee either. I agree with what you're saying, but that's not the whole story on why the Knee is crappy now.
Uh, no. It's not more powerful under any circumstance. And how is priority NOT an issue? When your Fsmash gets clinked by A spam from Metaknight, there's a serious issue in the programming.
Iwan
Smash Ace
The whole part about the knee.....it's wrong.
But yea, i agree with the part about him "showing his merits on the competitive scene." I think each character will have "that player"...the gimpyfish, the KillaOr, the people who choose to play as a "bad" character because they want too, and still see success.
But the things you said about the knee.....sarcasm?
Sh1n0b1
Smash Journeyman
Was it really ****ing necessary to make this thread? Like come on, just search this board a little bit. There is a thread right on the first page that says "can anyone tell me why is falcon considered the worst?" Sorry for my out burst but it pisses me off a little bit when we already have 3 pages of falcon bashing and people who don't even main him come into these boards and bash him.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
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- A2ZOMG
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Okay let's break it down.
1. No priority
2. Almost no kill moves
3. Is worse at "comboing" than other people because of his mediocre follow up options
4. Very predictable recovery
5. NO GRAB RANGE
6. Attack speed is below average. Startup and ending lag is bad.
Basically in short, Falcon has no legitimate advantages in Brawl.
Y34HDUD3!!!
Smash Lord
Everytime I see another one of these pop up I get even more pissed off at Sakurai.
Seriously, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!??!?!?!?!?! GAH!
-.-
Seriously, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!??!?!?!?!?! GAH!
-.-
Because I'm sure you have such glaring problems when your Toon Link faces a Captain Falcon.
I don't see why everyone seems to think falcon doesn't have any combos anymore, if you are refering to the combos in melee that he had, its called updates, usually happens in most games, let people figure out combos, the game is still new, or better yet figure out your own **** combos and stop bi tching over the nets about falcon has no FALCON COMBOZ NO MORE XXXXX
Sh1n0b1
Smash Journeyman
Depends on how good the Captain is at landing the Falcon Punch.