AlbertaSmash

[KillL0ck]

i use marth on all **** matchups

like falco lmao(who i don't mind playing as snake against)

and pikachu(gay matchup for snake)

and snake dittos are gay so maybe against snake too

 

[victra♥]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKwr0zLu0L4
Jake got pretty good at melee

 

[Frio]

Pikachu vs Snake is 50:50. Unless you rly wanna side with the Snake forums that says 53:47 >_>

 

[MurdaMoe]

might as well main mk

 

[KillL0ck]

im sorry frio but im gonna have to go with my homeslice afterdawn and make him win 5$ lol

 

[~Firefly~]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKwr0zLu0L4
Jake got pretty good at melee

XD

So Jack, are you still gonna use Marth against me? =3

 

[KillL0ck]

might as well main mk

i can play him pretty legit but i find him too light for my tastes i like snake cause he's manly beast dikheavy

XD

So Jack, are you still gonna use Marth against me? =3

i dunno lol

 

[~Firefly~]

i use marth on all **** matchups

I'd take that as a yes.

 

[x After Dawn x]

im sorry frio but im gonna have to go with my homeslice afterdawn and make him win 5$ lol

thanks bro =)

 

[Ermine]

Bread post. Also, lol stage striking.

 

[Bread~]

You know how I feel. Stage striking adds one stage to the game, and makes it a lot more repetitive.

^

I like stage striking because it just gives another element of one stage, while being entirely dependant on a coin flip in terms of fairness.

^

Stage striking isn't more fair.

^

Yeah. It makes characters like falcon not able to get ****ed over by FoD, and characters like marth not to have **** advantages on Yoshi's.

As if bans don't? Besides thats part of what keeps things interesting.

Seriously, am I gonna listen to a guy who uses one move every match on whats interesting and fair?

Seriosuly, even if you were right, I want to have fun, and a CHALLENGE or at least something thats different ONCE IN A WHILE is more fun.

lol I love how all the melee players are so conservative and how all the brawl players prefer change

Anyhow, I think we're just going to try stage striking for the first month. Being lazy enough to not spend an extra 15 seconds on stage striking isn't a legit excuse, especially when the first match of a set can REALLY make the difference in the entire set (ie: fox vs jiggs, if the first match is YS, fox will probably win, if the first match is DL, jiggs will probably win).

I love how you're obama. That means you're a nigger.

Or being cool enough to not care if you get a different stage because you actually enjoy the game. You know, cause NOT stage striking isn't exactly putting you at an advantage, so it's definately not FAIR. You know, You need a legit excuse to FOLLOW the RULES.

P.S: By saying that fox/jiggs will probably win at ys/dl you're pretty much saying that stage striking means whoever wins the coin flip gets first match.

Yeah but with this, it means they can ban another stage. Melee isn't immune to imbalance, and there is no way you can disagree with that.

Yeah cause we want to take away from the game more, thats exactly what we need.

Luke, you play brawl, what the hell are you talking imbalance.

Okay

So now let's say it's Pokemon Stadium. It's in Fox's favor, Fox wins. Jiggs cps Mute City or Brinstar. Jiggs wins. Fox cps Green Greens. Fox wins.

Or let's say it's Battlefield. It's in Jiggs' favor, Jiggs wins. Fox cps Green Greens. Fox wins. Jiggs cps Mute City or Brinstar. Jiggs wins.

If there was stage striking, it could probably go like: Fox bans DL, Jiggs bans YS, Fox bans BF, Jiggs bans Pokemon Stadium, Fox bans KJ64, Jiggs bans either FoD or FD, so now the stage is either FoD or FD, which is a lot more balanced than PS / BF, and it retains the players' abilities to ban something other than DL / YS (which, if they didn't in Random picks, could end up them getting ***** in match 1, which would probably make them lose the set).

Obviously I'm exaggerating a bit, but the point is that stage striking is more fair and leaves more options open.

K, in order.

So you're saying stage striking lets the winner of a coin flip determine who wins first match?

Oh wait, you're saying they'll ban stages they get ***** on. So every match will be on the same stage.

Randoms are random because they're the MOST neutral, no stage is entirely neutral, especially if you consider fox has no bad stage on the neutrals, whereas Falcon does. You're basically turning melee into brawl by putting the best character that much ahead of everyone in blind picks, because if you don't pick fox, you can get counterpicked automatically.

Or you know, we could be like Japan and play on only Dreamland and FD ever. Thats cool too, at least we arn't lying and trying to say that we're allowing other stages when we're not.



Not to mention, wtf kongo jungle 64? Yeaaah lets add a counterpicks to neutral to balance a problem WE MADE.

 

[Bread~]

Alternate post: Moe is right, enjoy smashville.

It's a great stage, but I like some other ones too, I guess.

 

[x After Dawn x]

Brad, I don't think you have any clue what you're talking about here. There's so much wrong with what you just said.

 

[victra♥]

Really? I don't think so.

 

[T-block]

i think so

for one, since when does stage striking mean it's a coin flip for who gets to choose the stage? if anything, random is more like a coin flip

 

[victra♥]

The choices we are given here, for Melee, is one of these 3 options:

1. Ban Pokemon Stadium, stage strike the remaining 5.

2. Include KJ64, stage strike the 7 stages

3. Keep the 6 stages, coin flip when narrowed down to 2.

Brad's just calling out the last 2 options. Seriously though, neutrals are neutral for a reason. Banning 1 disadvantageous stage is fair enough game. All the other stages won't provide a large enough advantage to really guarantee an auto-win, like what's pointed out in Tyler's example. Remember, these stages are in general, as neutral as it gets.

Speaking from experience, I'd be content against any character on any stage except yoshi's, which is the one I'd ban anyways. I know a lot of people feel the same, Brad included.

 

[Solaris1110]

so basically this argument revolves around trying to plot an irrational number.

 

[x After Dawn x]

Well clearly people don't feel the same way, Victor; everybody that I've spoken to so far (excluding you and Brad) have all agreed that stage striking, while perhaps too complex for Melee, does offer more fairness and makes cp'ing more dynamic.

I really don't see why it's such a huge deal though; is it such a problem to just try it out for the first monthly to see how it works out?

 

[victra♥]

Eh, I said it before but I'll be content with whatever decision. I'm just pointing out the flaws in stage striking in melee, mainly because of the complications with making the number of stages odd. This is really whats iffy about the idea of stage striking in melee.

To end all disputes, we could just leave it up to the match players to choose which ever rule set they want to go with.

 

[Solaris1110]

To end all disputes, we could just leave it up to the match players to choose which ever rule set they want to go with.

^^^formula for getting irrational number

 

[Alphicans]

i think so

for one, since when does stage striking mean it's a coin flip for who gets to choose the stage? if anything, random is more like a coin flip

This.

Brad what makes you think the top pick for both players will be left at the end of stage striking. If you are at all observant and at least somewhat smart you'll know what stages to strike so both of you are left with your second/third best pick.

EDIT: yeah victor it's always left up to the players to choose what they want to do, I don't think that was ever up for dispute.

 

[victra♥]

ITT: Luke doesn't read posts.

 

[Alphicans]

I am addressing one of his super flawed points.

To address the other one. Not every match will be on the same stage, since (I hope) your decision will be heavily influenced by the character you are up against.

 

[x After Dawn x]

Eh, I said it before but I'll be content with whatever decision. I'm just pointing out the flaws in stage striking in melee, mainly because of the complications with making the number of stages odd. This is really whats iffy about the idea of stage striking in melee.

It's not really a problem, as there are 3 solutions that you posted. The point of it is to eliminate the overfavorable stages for one player so that the set hopefully doesn't turn into whoever-wins-the-first-match-wins-the-set kind of thing. Like, if I was doing Fox vs Jiggs, and I was Jiggs, and I decided to ban Green Greens instead, there's a chance I could get YS first match and get *****; stage striking allows you to keep your ban for something else while not getting ***** by a neutral. Neutrals are supposed to be fair for every character, but until people realize that there are specific inherent advantages for certain characters and bad stages for characters as well, I don't think they'll understand the concept of stage striking in the first place.

To end all disputes, we could just leave it up to the match players to choose which ever rule set they want to go with.

Well, this is typically what happens; anything goes as long as both players agree to it. But in the case that two players don't agree on something...that's the reason why rulesets are made.

 

[t3h Icy]

Theoretical for me, but I would just stick with ban a stage, then hit random.

If the stage striking system is used, go with allowing Kongo 64, not banning Stadium.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

put kongo on for stage striking purposes. If you don't like kongo...STAGE STRIKE IT

 

[Lex Jewthor]

Alright. k.

It's not about being conservative to change. It's not as important to melee as it is to brawl, it doesn't offer that much, and random rarely gives a huge advantage if you're smart about your bans.

Since it's monthlies and not a major tournament, there isn't as much on the line, either. Yes, it might factor into the PR, but it's monthlies, if you're good enough to hold your place, you should be good enough to be winning regardless of that small luck factor in the first stage.

I'm not bashing on Brawl here, but there IS more depth in melee, as the entire edge guarding game has more options, there is more options on offense after you DO land a hit because hitstun is longer, there's a lot more technical skill involved due to the innate speed. This means that generally, if you're better, you're better. It's harder to be at that tied state in Melee, whereas in Brawl a lot of middle level players can be even.

 

[lemonlau36]

Alright. k.

It's not about being conservative to change. It's not as important to melee as it is to brawl, it doesn't offer that much, and random rarely gives a huge advantage if you're smart about your bans.

Since it's monthlies and not a major tournament, there isn't as much on the line, either. Yes, it might factor into the PR, but it's monthlies, if you're good enough to hold your place, you should be good enough to be winning regardless of that small luck factor in the first stage.

I'm not bashing on Brawl here, but there IS more depth in melee, as the entire edge guarding game has more options, there is more options on offense after you DO land a hit because hitstun is longer, there's a lot more technical skill involved due to the innate speed. This means that generally, if you're better, you're better. It's harder to be at that tied state in Melee, whereas in Brawl a lot of middle level players can be even.

Wow. Alex kind of wins here.

And by kind of, I mean definitely.

 

[Bread~]

i think so

for one, since when does stage striking mean it's a coin flip for who gets to choose the stage? if anything, random is more like a coin flip

Stage striking limits it down to only a couple stages that end up "more" favourably for the person who wins said coin flip (rock paper scissors, whatever, bite my *** <3)

You don't play Melee, so I guess it wouldn't really make sense.

Brad, I don't think you have any clue what you're talking about here. There's so much wrong with what you just said.

You don't play melee well, so I guess it wouldn't really make sense

Brad's just calling out the last 2 options. Seriously though, neutrals are neutral for a reason. Banning 1 disadvantageous stage is fair enough game. All the other stages won't provide a large enough advantage to really guarantee an auto-win, like what's pointed out in Tyler's example. Remember, these stages are in general, as neutral as it gets.

Speaking from experience, I'd be content against any character on any stage except yoshi's, which is the one I'd ban anyways. I know a lot of people feel the same, Brad included.

Long story short, Neutrals are neutral cause they're not terribly unbalanced. Sure Marth has an advantage at Yoshi's, So what? I've seen people counterpick Fox against Jiggs at yoshi's.

Any character can win on the neutrals thats why they're neutral (obviously theres difficulties, but it's fair if theres stages where EVERYONE has difficulties, Besides it's nice to have some variables effecting tournaments, rather than tripping, have it be a stage that challenges a pro to actually be good at a game, rather than just play the best character *coughbrawl*)

Well clearly people don't feel the same way, Victor; everybody that I've spoken to so far (excluding you and Brad) have all agreed that stage striking, while perhaps too complex for Melee, does offer more fairness and makes cp'ing more dynamic.

I really don't see why it's such a huge deal though; is it such a problem to just try it out for the first monthly to see how it works out?

Have you spoken to anyone who's good at melee?

(dan don't count cause he's a brawl player, and he knows he can just play fox if they do this)

-_- But actually, I don't wanna read back, but what did Carl say? and I dunno, Sid, Alex, Levi and all the melee guys I've seen seem to hate it. and I'm sorry, I know all your friends play brawl, but brawl =/= melee.

Brad what makes you think the top pick for both players will be left at the end of stage striking. If you are at all observant and at least somewhat smart you'll know what stages to strike so both of you are left with your second/third best pick.

Not the top pick, I'm saying exactly what tyler said, theres a reason I multiquote. Point is, someone wins a RPS and gets the better option on stage. The game is great, stop trying to make it brawl.

I am addressing one of his super flawed points.

To address the other one. Not every match will be on the same stage, since (I hope) your decision will be heavily influenced by the character you are up against.

You mean the characters that have the most options in terms of stages? You mean, you play fox, and you win stage striking?

The point of it is to eliminate the overfavorable stages for one player so that the set hopefully doesn't turn into whoever-wins-the-first-match-wins-the-set kind of thing.

How does that change anything? You're making it so that it's more likely for someones chances to be placed on a match of rock paper scissors, than a system the game provides for you.

Neutrals are supposed to be fair for every character, but until people realize that there are specific inherent advantages for certain characters and bad stages for characters as well, I don't think they'll understand the concept of stage striking in the first place.

Seriously, if you're gonna try to convince me, why don't we just become japan? If you have a problem with the stages, just make it so only the most fair one or two are allowed.

Why even bother with satge striking.

put kongo on for stage striking purposes. If you don't like kongo...STAGE STRIKE IT

Yeah, but by that logic, I'd rather put icicle mountain.

Seriously, if we WERE to implement it, just make it so the person who wins the coin toss to get first pick, (they end up with 3 and the other ends up with 2) leaving one stage. Because otherwise it's just them both trying to get the other to waste a pick, and making a non-neutral stage interfere with the neutral play.

Wow. Alex kind of wins here.

And by kind of, I mean definitely.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone still argued.

 

[Stevo]

I feel that part of the decision process for picking your character first round is knowing that it will be a random stange. Nobody plays only 1 character in melee these days, so your ``main`` doesnt have to be the character you start with for the random. People will argue that you shouldnt have to play a diff character just cause you might get screwed over by the random. I say, why not? I can`t play DK all the time simply cause he gets ***** by certain characters.

I mean, if we want it completely fair, why not character strike too. It becomes ridiculous when we take all these precautions to try to make everything fair for everyone.

Learn your characters bad stages, or try a new character.

with all that being said, I think we should try it for the first monthly and see what people feel. Although, I will have a hard time being convinced stage striking is the way to go.

(goddayam im up early)

(this is page 13 in binary)

(****)

 

[FalseFalco]

I'm fine with either method.

every time I do stage striking with someone I end up on dreamland.

 

[Metà]

aflong aflong kong

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

I will always stage strike dreamland cause I hate it, hence my excessive fox camping on that stage lol

just so you know... blind picks and stage striking is the most fair option here

 

[Dezmu]

.. so is the melee tournament a go?

 

[Stevo]

I think we should Tic tac toe for who gets first pick for controller slot, and in the case of a tie in tic tac toe, each person rolls a die and highest wins. In the case of another tie, a dance off.

Seating arrangements will be assigned by musical chairs, followed by a game of Mouse trap for the volume setting.


If any issues regarding Melee version arise, Such as flame-cancel johns, each team or person will strike 1 version at a time in order till only 1 remains. (1.0, 1.1, 1.2, PAL, Japanese)

Finally, a teams coin match for which pair gets first pic of TV's.

In the case of more then 2 pairs needing a TV at any time, a mini tournament mode match will be played.
Top 2 advance to the teams coin match with their singles bracket partners.

 

[Dragonz7]

.. so is the melee tournament a go?

God i hope so :D

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

I think we should Tic tac toe for who gets first pick for controller slot, and in the case of a tie in tic tac toe, each person rolls a die and highest wins. In the case of another tie, a dance off.

Seating arrangements will be assigned by musical chairs, followed by a game of Mouse trap for the volume setting.


If any issues regarding Melee version arise, Such as flame-cancel johns, each team or person will strike 1 version at a time in order till only 1 remains. (1.0, 1.1, 1.2, PAL, Japanese)

Finally, a teams coin match for which pair gets first pic of TV's.

In the case of more then 2 pairs needing a TV at any time, a mini tournament mode match will be played.
Top 2 advance to the teams coin match with their singles bracket partners.

wholy **** steve, LOL.

ALBERTA!!! POUND 4!!! GO GO GO GO GO!

 

[lemonlau36]

I think we should Tic tac toe for who gets first pick for controller slot, and in the case of a tie in tic tac toe, each person rolls a die and highest wins. In the case of another tie, a dance off.

Seating arrangements will be assigned by musical chairs, followed by a game of Mouse trap for the volume setting.


If any issues regarding Melee version arise, Such as flame-cancel johns, each team or person will strike 1 version at a time in order till only 1 remains. (1.0, 1.1, 1.2, PAL, Japanese)

Finally, a teams coin match for which pair gets first pic of TV's.

In the case of more then 2 pairs needing a TV at any time, a mini tournament mode match will be played.
Top 2 advance to the teams coin match with their singles bracket partners.

<3 Steve. You could run an excellent Nintendo-sponsored tournament.

I had to play a coin match once in tournament. It was to split a 3-way tie for first. Mushroom Kingdom, 3 mins, items on low. My friend and I just gangbanged the other dude and advanced to the final.

I remember the days where non-transforming items on low/very low were acceptable in tournament...

Yes monthlies. Nov 14.

Also, make sure all of you can make it out to BeebleOSHIIII2 which I will be posting about in the near future. It's likely going to be Dec. 27 or 28 (Sun or Mon), as Mike will be in town then. And I like Mike. It will potentially be a different venue, as I plan to move out at the end of Fall term. Likely, but not guaranteed.

 

[x After Dawn x]

Steve, controller ports are determined by rock-paper-scissors.

Shiro, I can get the thread up once you contact me over MSN.

 

[Solaris1110]

there should be a dance off irregardless of anything. agreed?