Alabama Thread! (10/26/2016 update)

[NinjaFoxX]

Melee gets me hard.

lemme fix that for ya

 

[Saki-]

It seems I've missed out on some amazing Hatsune Miku cosplay. XD

 

[Will_]

Yes you did. She was mmmph at the rave. Especially when the hare hare yukai trance remix was playing and everyone started doing the dance.

it's funny, i find fox a lot easier and i feel he has more freedom.
dan mains fox and thinks falco is easier and has more freedom.

I think it's cause of the jump frames. Fox's jump feels instant compared to Falco trying to get his fat bird *** off the ground.

 

[-Chad-]

Melee is hard.

You made it look so easy and fun though.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You made it look so easy and fun though.

Bowser is an easy character to use, and the game is most certainly loads of fun.

However, I believe I am a solid player simply because I am smart, and I'm not "good" at the game so much as I am good at reading people. Perhaps I should pick up Marth and really learn the game. I hear he's not too hard on the hands.

 

[Winnar]

Bowser is an easy character to use, and the game is most certainly loads of fun.

However, I believe I am a solid player simply because I am smart, and I'm not "good" at the game so much as I am good at reading people. Perhaps I should pick up Marth and really learn the game. I hear he's not too hard on the hands.

Just do jiggs

 

[SleepyK]

do jiggs in the butt

will, i mean with how you have to play the characters

 

[j00t]

Just do jiggs

Worst advice ever.

 

[Winnar]

if you're looking for low tech skill req high spacing/prediction then jiggs sounds p much perfect?

 

[Saki-]

GTFO of my account guys!

 

[Zero_Gamer]

I swear Im not doing anything.


It's hard to believe you when you pulled that stunt a couple days ago

-MLE

 

[-Chad-]

Bowser is an easy character to use, and the game is most certainly loads of fun.

However, I believe I am a solid player simply because I am smart, and I'm not "good" at the game so much as I am good at reading people. Perhaps I should pick up Marth and really learn the game. I hear he's not too hard on the hands.

Peach, Jiggs, Marth, Samus, others aren't super technical.

It'd be cool to see you come back to the game and **** again.

 

[shaSLAM]

its ok to be gay, kola.

 

[theONEjanitor]

falco's moveset is based on fox's, they do a lot of things that require the same button imputs, except falco's more lax frame data, and lower average fall speed, gives you more room for error

once you train your fingers to move at high speeds, it doesn't matter whether or not you have an extra couple frames, because you fingers can already do it. for a while I was training my fox more than other characters, and I became used to his timing etc. and I found falco hard to play because i'd trained my muscles to use fox. so when I would try to l-cancel or waveshine, I would be so used to doing it with fox, that i'd screw up often.

but for people just learning both characters, I would say that the vast majority of them would find falco much easier to play than fox.

 

[MLEsis]

Falco is not easier than Fox because of easier technique. It's because he has much more solid punishment options and has more reward to his risk, imo.

 

[shaSLAM]

Falco is not easier than Fox because of easier technique. It's because he has much more solid punishment options and has more reward to his risk, imo.

lol emily did some studying.

 

[theONEjanitor]

Falco is not easier than Fox because of easier technique. It's because he has much more solid punishment options and has more reward to his risk, imo.

I think Falco has more damage building potential than Fox, but Fox moves faster, kills earlier in more ways, and doesn't have the second ****tiest recovery in the game (poor Roy)

i think people play falco when they are too impatient to play Fox lol

 

[Winnar]

I think Falco has more damage building potential than Fox, but Fox moves faster, kills earlier in more ways, and doesn't have the second ****tiest recovery in the game (poor Roy)

i think people play falco when they are too impatient to play Fox lol

I think you're forgetting kirby and bowser

and arguably yoshi, ness, pichu, and possibly gnw, mario, and luigi(?) if you're considering a bad recovery as one that you will likely lose your stock any time you're hit off stage

roy is pretty trash though, I'd probably put him after kirby and bowser for worst recovery

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I think you're forgetting kirby and bowser

and arguably yoshi, ness, pichu, and possibly gnw, mario, and luigi(?) if you're considering a bad recovery as one that you will likely lose your stock any time you're hit off stage

roy is pretty trash though, I'd probably put him after kirby and bowser for worst recovery

Bowser has a pretty good recovery as far as Melee characters go...

 

[theONEjanitor]

roy, without a doubt has the worst recovery in the game. no question.

Falco is probably second. Bowser is close to last but a few chars beat him

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Dr. Mario's recovery is much worse than Falco's.

Falco's is a lot better than a lot of characters'.

 

[theONEjanitor]

falco dies pretty much everytime he's gets knocked off the stage. his up b goes like nowhere,. and side b is easily punished/edgeguarded.


i dont think Dr mario's recover is that bad once you l2down b rise (which, I can't do, mind you lol). he covers a lot of ground, plus he has the weird mario thing where they can grab the edge with their up b from way further than it looks like they should be able to...its in brawl too. and the cape is useful for stalling and mix ups. and he's relatively floaty compared to roy and falco who fall like bricks

 

[theONEjanitor]

Oh **** I checked out that San guy. his Ike's actually fun to watch

 

[SleepyK]

falco's moveset is based on fox's, they do a lot of things that require the same button imputs, except falco's more lax frame data, and lower average fall speed, gives you more room for error

once you train your fingers to move at high speeds, it doesn't matter whether or not you have an extra couple frames, because you fingers can already do it. for a while I was training my fox more than other characters, and I became used to his timing etc. and I found falco hard to play because i'd trained my muscles to use fox. so when I would try to l-cancel or waveshine, I would be so used to doing it with fox, that i'd screw up often.

but for people just learning both characters, I would say that the vast majority of them would find falco much easier to play than fox.

t1j is talking from scrub to lower levels. i am talking about above average to higher level. falco is not easier to play.

Falco is not easier than Fox because of easier technique. It's because he has much more solid punishment options and has more reward to his risk, imo.

fox has close to as viable options as falco.

I think Falco has more damage building potential than Fox, but Fox moves faster, kills earlier in more ways, and doesn't have the second ****tiest recovery in the game (poor Roy)

i think people play falco when they are too impatient to play Fox lol

i'd counterpost but the last line is prob just a jk lols

roy, without a doubt has the worst recovery in the game. no question.

Falco is probably second. Bowser is close to last but a few chars beat him

Bowser has a pretty good recovery as far as Melee characters go...

Dr. Mario's recovery is much worse than Falco's.

Falco's is a lot better than a lot of characters'.

falco dies pretty much everytime he's gets knocked off the stage. his up b goes like nowhere,. and side b is easily punished/edgeguarded.


i dont think Dr mario's recover is that bad once you l2down b rise (which, I can't do, mind you lol). he covers a lot of ground, plus he has the weird mario thing where they can grab the edge with their up b from way further than it looks like they should be able to...its in brawl too. and the cape is useful for stalling and mix ups. and he's relatively floaty compared to roy and falco who fall like bricks

t1j you're wrong. you shouldn't post like an authority on these kinds of things when you don't know what you talkin about willis

1) falco's recovery is mediocre. it's like a worse version of fox's, who has great recovery. when we discuss recovery, we assume the players have good DI, not awful algerian DI. falco's recovery is viable because he has options from a good DI stand point. he has 8 directions for his up b, he can side b and shorten it, wall jump, shine stall, etc. it would be a great recovery like fox's if he had a little more range.

2) doctor mario's recovery is bad. his down b, even with a PTP, doesn't send you anywhere. you basically get a stall. his cape doesn't do **** for ****, and his up b is easily edgeguardable with ledge invincibility. he has a predictable direction with his up b. his fourthjump/magnet hands are pretty good, but that's generally a nonissue once you get to a level where people don't roll off of the ledge really early and just kill you.

3) roy's recovery is pretty bad, lolz. his side b sometimes doesn't give you height, which is

4) bowser's recovery is.... probably a little worse than donkey kong's, so not too bad. it's not awful with good DI and it cancels fairly quickly upon landing.

I think you're forgetting kirby and bowser

and arguably yoshi, ness, pichu, and possibly gnw, mario, and luigi(?) if you're considering a bad recovery as one that you will likely lose your stock any time you're hit off stage

roy is pretty trash though, I'd probably put him after kirby and bowser for worst recovery

pichu has one of the best recoveries what are you talking aobut? super far side b, super far up b
i think he was 7th best last i checked.

mario's recovery is pretty solid.

 

[o-Serin-o]

I love that we are discussing melee :D

LOL at the mention of Algerian DI.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Sleepy how good are you anyways?

Are you good, but not quite all the way up there with Hbox and whatnot?

 

[Zero_Gamer]

SleepyK is an amazingly solid player. Don't listen to him if he says he's bad/not high level.

Also, I'm not sure what you quoted me for, Sleepy. Was it to counter my point that Falco's recovery is good compared to others or to enforce it? Or, rather, was it enforce my point that Doc's recovery is bad?

And DownB stalling is bad for Doc, he doesn't travel any horizontal distance and the lag on it is so bad that he loses more distance than he gains. Many times it will just buy the opponent more time to screw him over, at least, from what I've seen/experienced.

 

[SleepyK]

ya i sux.

i was expanding on your post zero, since u rite

 

[theONEjanitor]

falco is, objectively, easier to control than Fox. that's all i'm saying. its just a matter of frame data. Falco's jump leaves the ground later than foxes, giving you an extra frame to complete the input for you wavedash. also when he jumps he rises much slower than fox, giving you more time to complete your wavedash/shine.. Falco falls slower (on average) than fox, making it easier to shffl and time your l-cancels. regardless of the level of play, controlling falco has more room for error than controlling fox.
but once the players have trained the muscle memory this doesn't matter much anymnore.

dr. mario's recovery is better than falcos, wtf. its not "good" but its better than falcos. and in the professional melee matches i've watched in the six or so years i've been watching competitive melee, falco dies way more often off of the stage than dr. mario does. as in, pretty much every time he's off the stage he dies. how can a recovery be worse than that? when you literally die everytime you get knocked off the stage.

dr. mario has way more things he can do to help him back than falco does. he falls much slower, has pills, and two stalls, and a perfect down b gives you a noticeable bit of vertical distance, what are you guys talking about? its hard to do perfectly, but when you press it fast enough you get a noticeable boost. and a good up b. I don't understand how you can even begin to say its worse than falcos. falco up b goes nowhere, with DI you can try and sweet spot the ledge with it, but again. easily edgehogged/punished...and a side b that will get punished everytime unless youre opponent is for some reason in hitstun. you're not going to be shine stalling very much because he falls so fast. and wall jumping leads to either up b or side b. both of which are going to get punished. Falco can keep from dying the first time he's knocked off with DI and ledgetechs, but he's never getting back on the stage, unless you do some cool ledgetech bair stuff that they weren't expecting or unless your opponent ****s up

sometimes i feel you guys just argue with me just because its me
falco's recovery is not bad? am i being trolled?



oh and sleepy k is a beast at melee

 

[theONEjanitor]

falcon's recovery is pretty turrible too

alot of pro falcons know how to get back to the stage though, like its mindgames or sommin seems like he should die everytime, but falcon's know how to get back

 

[SleepyK]

falco is, objectively, easier to control than Fox. that's all i'm saying. its just a matter of frame data. Falco's jump leaves the ground later than foxes, giving you an extra frame to complete the input for you wavedash. also when he jumps he rises much slower than fox, giving you more time to complete your wavedash/shine.. Falco falls slower (on average) than fox, making it easier to shffl and time your l-cancels. regardless of the level of play, controlling falco has more room for error than controlling fox.
but once the players have trained the muscle memory this doesn't matter much anymnore.

please emphasize the true meaning of your posts next time so we don't just say the same thing.
also in all honesty i have a harder time controlling falco than i do fox. fox.. you can just go as fast as you want, but with falco the timing is different. lololool
next time just say "falco is, in my opinion, easier to control than fox" instead of "falco is easier to play than fox" because of all the things you could be insinuating.

dr. mario's recovery is better than falcos, wtf. its not "good" but its better than falcos. and in the professional melee matches i've watched in the six or so years i've been watching competitive melee, falco dies way more often off of the stage than dr. mario does. as in, pretty much every time he's off the stage he dies. how can a recovery be worse than that? when you literally die everytime you get knocked off the stage.

it's because he's a fast faller, not because his recovery is bad. in conjunction the two make it hard for him to get back on the stage, but falco has more options than doctor mario. falco's recovery is not bad. doctor mario's is bad. ask dogy samich, ask any doc main.

dr. mario has way more things he can do to help him back than falco does. he falls much slower, has pills, and two stalls, and a perfect down b gives you a noticeable bit of vertical distance, what are you guys talking about? its hard to do perfectly, but when you press it fast enough you get a noticeable boost. and a good up b. I don't understand how you can even begin to say its worse than falcos. falco up b goes nowhere, with DI you can try and sweet spot the ledge with it, but again. easily edgehogged/punished...and a side b that will get punished everytime unless youre opponent is for some reason in hitstun. you're not going to be shine stalling very much because he falls so fast. and wall jumping leads to either up b or side b. both of which are going to get punished. Falco can keep from dying the first time he's knocked off with DI and ledgetechs, but he's never getting back on the stage, unless you do some cool ledgetech bair stuff that they weren't expecting or unless your opponent ****s up

you're wrong, once again. i mentioned PTP. PTP is a stall. the minor vertical distance is negated because the horizontal movement is negated when you down-b, making it basically a stall in place. his cape is hardly a stall and generally... you almost lose height with it.

his up b is NOT good because
it's predictable (direction wise) and limited. you may think it's good because "omg priority" but all you have to do to negate that priority is
1) hit doc before he can try to up b
2) hit him with ledge invincibility.
3) i think the reason why the move seems to have a lot of priority is due to low start up time and a fast moving hitbox. up-b still trades with a lot of kill moves that... get doc um, killed.

which means that basically, doc is going to get back on the stage with
1) early up b (lots o landing lag)
2) try to sweet spot (lots o edgeguard)

the reason falco's is "medicore" and not "bad" is because you have options to try to get your opponent off the ledge or to assume you're going to be picking a different one of the many recovery options you have available to you. shine stall isn't a "wait off the stage forever" tactic, it's a "confuse your opponent as to your recovery option" tactic.
wall jumping can lead to airdodging/wavelanding back on the stage. wall jump up-b can also trick your opponent and you have a multitude of angles to choose from.
falco's up b also has little landing lag.. and if you side b in the air and don't touch the stage, you have little landing lag. or you can side-b cancel on a platform

oh and sleepy k is a beast at melee

no i sux

falcon's recovery is pretty turrible too
alot of pro falcons know how to get back to the stage though, like its mindgames or sommin seems like he should die everytime, but falcon's know how to get back

falcon's recovery is bad, but mainly because his up b is predictable.

t1j you know i don't have any issues with you. i generally avoid brawl arguments because i don't have anything to input to them, but i can pretend to know something about the game i play when someone brings up melee.

 

[Winnar]

guys sleepyk sux why are you even listening to him

he said so himself and he's an authority on the subject

 

[SleepyK]

i've asked dogy to come correct t1j and me.

i've probably been wrong on some of doc's things, but i honestly thingggggk falco's recovery is mediocre and doc's is sub-par

 

[Dogysamich]

*stumbles in with this s****y cpu

OK SO I'VE BEEN CALLED IN TO SLAP SOME PEOPLE IN THE FACE, TALKIN BOUT SOME FALCO RECOVERY AND SOME DOC RECOVERY.

HERE IS THE DEAL
THEY BOTH ARE TRASH

However, falco's recovery is leaps and bounds ABOVE DOC's. Why? Because falco has options. Options is f'n important on recovery because, although he can't safely recover a great distance, when he can recover, he has hope that the opponent will guess wrong and can make it back to the stage. Infact, he actually can do something in response to them not being ready and make it back.

Doc's recovery does NOT have this. The ONLY real option Doc ever has is to grab the ledge, or MAYBE make a high-risk move onto the stage (up+b onto the stage, airdodge onto the stage). The thing Doc's recovery DOES have, however, is the slight ability to defend himself on recovery. Pills, D.air, B.air, Cape, (and some other lessor used outlandish tactics). That's one reason why Doc does well against jiggs, Jiggs HAS to respect Doc's D.air/Pills on his recovery.

For the record, doc's tornado is icing in the cake for the recovery, doesn't make it so much better that it's noteworthy. If being able to PTP could cause you to eventually land on platforms or get you like, 2 character lengths onto the stage by the end of your recovery, it would be. But it's not. Infact, all it is is a stall tool. A gimmicky stall tool that, nobody should REALLY ever fall for.


In the end, both recoveries are straight trash. Falco has options, Doc can kinda sorta defend himself.

*hobbles off* (THIS ****ING CPU BLOWS OMG)

 

[SleepyK]

thanks, dogy.

Dogysamich (11:01:23 AM): i wont give falco good, call it old bias of when everybody said it wasnt good or whatever

Dogysamich (11:01:27 AM): i WILL NEVER call that **** good

Dogysamich (11:01:28 AM): but it aint bad

Dogysamich (11:01:34 AM): falco's recovery is like, par

Red is Sleepy (11:01:37 AM): ya

Dogysamich (11:01:40 AM): gettin 4 on a par 4.

Red is Sleepy (11:01:41 AM): that's what mediocre means

Dogysamich (11:01:54 AM): i know

Dogysamich (11:01:58 AM): :|

Red is Sleepy (11:02:00 AM): ok

Red is Sleepy (11:02:07 AM): just making sure you weren't disagreeing with me earlier

 

[GeorgeTHPS]

Kirby's recovery is easily worse than Roy's. Roy can at least mix up the trajectory on his up b, which works once in a while.

Kirby may have multiple jumps, but it usually takes every single one to make it back to the stage with the slowest aerial mobility in the game. Also keep in mind Kirby's Up B is stupidly easy to punish when it's used from below the ledge, it actually slows Kirby down more, and it's easily ledge hoggable when predicted. Kirby has the options of recovering above the stage when his DI puts him high enough to do so, but he falls so slowly, there's no avoiding getting hit on the way down. The only advantage I could really see Kirby having over Roy in terms of recovering is that Kirby sometimes has the option to airdodge onto the stage.

 

[SleepyK]

roy is a hard turd; he sinks to the bottom.
kirby is like a floaty hard turd; he thinks he can stay up, but he'll sink to the bottom in the end.

 

[j00t]

Falco recovery > Doc recovery

Falcon's upair clanks with Falco's side-b :/ mega lame

but enough about Falco and Doc, let's discuss GnW's terrible recovery.

 

[BunBun]

Kirby's recovery isn't terrible, it's just extremely mediocre. He can also do a lot of useful things with the rock if you're above the stage. He has options, though most of them are risky.

His upb is easily punished, but you can usually tec the punish and ibair from it, and airdodge.




It's so much better than roy's lol

 

[SleepyK]

joot, we need you in the matchup chart thread. it's gnw discussion time!
well, bottom 14, but that's gnw time enough for me.