Alabama Thread! (10/26/2016 update)

[Majist]

you're so smexy Duchock:embarrass

As far as beautiful women go, lucky me, I've already got a gorgeous woman of my own (Sorry majist ).


Shannon where were you Saturday? i missed ya. Also i won't be able to attend smash this Saturday as i will be at the beach, so you all have fun without me. But don't worry, i know what i need to work on, and after endless hours swimming and turning my skin ruby red, I'll make sure to keep smashing. I think my thumb is starting to bruise btw...is that just me or does that happen to everyone else too? 0o

It's okay, we're back together, hurraaaaay!!!

i didn't feel like coming to the last smashfest. i'm sorry. i think i was just feeling burned out of Smash at the time.

Munkus has suggested that we hold this week's smashfest on Thursday, seeing as how EVERYONE is going to be gone on Saturday. i'm all for it.

Unable to go to that.

Undecided if I'll be able to go to Waba this Saturday. Definitely can't be there Sunday. I'll probably just go to the one in Birmingham on the 28th. Munkus, teams for that? Dreamland domination.

NOOOOOOOO!! he's my moneymaking w h o r e

stupid filter...

you know, i don't think Munkus will be able to attend. His parents are going to Italy and there's no one to watch the house. Unless some neighbors could do it.

EDIT: oh i should tell you guys that today i'm going to Nashville. My younger brother has joined the Army and is shipping off to boot camp tomorrow. I'm very proud of him and ask that you keep him in your prayers.

 

[saintrage]

Well Thursday also doesn't work for me, thats the day i'm leaving, and i am working everyday until Thursday. I am off next Saturday though :D so probably won't see you all until then.

 

[munkus beaver]

what shannon said. Still working out the logistics.

 

[j00t]

Saturday only for me.

 

[munkus beaver]

Alright. Looks like I can go. Just need to iron out the details with this kid to watch my dog for the day.

 

[theONEjanitor]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954

have yall seen this? It's a tier list made entirely out of tournament results, its interesting to see what characters are doing well in tournaments.

 

[Kalm]

Interesting how far up Olimar is and how far down Toon Link is. Especially with Toon Link, he's one of the most played characters out there right now, and he's high tier.

 

[munkus beaver]

That list is using a whopping 14 tournies to make the calculations.

 

[theONEjanitor]

That list is using a whopping 14 tournies to make the calculations.

I think that's more than enough to make the list interesting.

No tier list is ever going to accurate even with 100 tournament results.
But for fourteen, the character selection is pretty accurate I'd say. the only thing I noticed is that more people play Wario than that list indicates.

 

[munkus beaver]

14 is an extremely small pool to choose from, especially based on the discrepancy between a first place and a top 8 placing. There have been a ton more than 14 tournies, you could probably cull the same numbers from Georgia and Alabama alone.

The other problem is that it doesn't deal with who got knocked out in brackets by the eventual winner. Case in point, no matter how good you were at Melee in Georgia, as soon as you got into the bracket against Mewtwoking, you were knocked out.

 

[theONEjanitor]

The difference between brawl and mew2king/a game that's been out for a decade is there is no body that much better than everyone in Brawl yet in terms of pure skill. And It's going to take longer than Melee for someone to rise like m2k and people like him, since tech skill is not a big part of the game. As of now, people are winning because of the character they pick and the character they face, and how well they utilize tbe strengths and weaknesses. If I pick Metaknight and Futile picks peach, I'm probably going to win, this early in the game's life. So lists like these are intriguing at this point.

anyway, 14 is a small pool, and no one is saying that this list is in anyway indicative of anything. But I find it interesting, nonethless. Maybe it's just me.

Besides, I don't know where people got this idea that tiers are based majorly on tourney results anyway. They are to a large extent, (which is why space animals top the tier list in Melee) but I think actual character matchups are the main decider. E.g NO ONE except like 3 people play IC's in Melee, but they're high tier.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Besides, I don't know where people got this idea that tiers are based majorly on tourney results anyway. They are to a large extent, (which is why space animals top the tier list in Melee) but I think actual character matchups are the main decider. E.g NO ONE except like 3 people play IC's in Melee, but they're high tier.

That's interesting of you to point out because I've noticed lately tourney results don't really reflect the Melee tier list.

TGMTSBCA
: M2K Marth
1: ChuDat ICs
3: Jman Fox
4: Eggm Falco
5: ColBol Fox
5: hungrybox Jiggs
7: Cactuar Marth
7: Xelic Peach
9: Xif Peach
9: Kage Ganon
9: Vidjo Peach
9: Iori ??
13: DoH Peach
13: Green Mario Mario (I think?)
13: Chad (Pikachu)
13: Eggz (Fox)

3 Foxes, 2 Marths, 4 Peaches, 1 Falco, 0 Sheiks

Pound 3
1: Mango (Jiggs)
2: M2K (Marth)
3: PC (Fox)
4: Cort (Peach / Marth)
5: Chu (ICs)
5: Vidjo (Peach)
7: Azen (Marth)
7: Darkrain (CF)
9: Hax (CF)
9: Forward (Falco)
9: HugS (Samus)
9: Drephen (Sheik)
13: Col Bol (Fox)
13: Cactaur (Marth)
13: Eggm (Falco)
13: Eggz (Fox)

Where are all the Falcos? Sheiks? I guess when the final version of the tier list was made there were a lot more Falco mains than there are now, but I don't think the list was ever calculated systematically. It was just a bunch of BRoomers and their opinions.

 

[theONEjanitor]

I think sheik's mainly there because of history, before people discovered that spacies **** her, EVERYONE played sheik, no one plays her now, because you pretty much always have to fight a space animal.

Marth's the best character in terms of tournaments. If every character was played evenly, sheik would be best by far.
Fox and Falco are only good because they beat the other good characters, other than that, they're ehhh like fox has more trouble against jiggs and DK than against marth and sheik.

Falco especially is one of those characters that's once you learn how to fight, he's significantly inferior to Fox. Like without lasers, Falco sucks, and a lot of players have learned to deal with lasers (I wish I could learn this)

luckily for spacies players, everyone plays high tiers.

i do think tabasco was unusually peach heavy, however. I had 3 in my pool.

lol @ "iori-??"
who WAS he playingas in brackets?

 

[-Chad-]

m2k thinks sheik is the best character in melee.

 

[Duchock]

Whoa. When did we start getting M. I. crooked letters all up-in-here?

 

[theONEjanitor]

m2k thinks sheik is the best character in melee.

in terms of ALL the characters in Melee, Sheik is def overall the best by far.

if Melee was ONLY Marth, Fox, Falco, Sheik, and Peach (Like it virtually is in tournaments) I dont think she's the best any more.

But anyone M2k plays is the best character in Melee if he's playing me so....

 

[-Chad-]

Who besides those you listed have a better chance against Sheik? O_o

Also Sheik doesn't get ***** by space animals, she can gimp the hell out of them similar to Marth's style of gimp vs fast fallers.

 

[3GOD]

m2k thinks sheik is the best character in melee.

Probably because it's one of his tougher matches as a Marth player, though he does play fox still doesn't he?

in terms of ALL the characters in Melee, Sheik is def overall the best by far.

I think it's Fox or Marth honestly - we have to weigh matches based on the expected popularity of the characters. To assume/hope for an even character distribution is unrealistic. Even so, I feel like the size of the advantage Sheik has against many characters is hugely overrated (vs Ganon for instance).

Who besides those you listed have a better chance against Sheik? O_o

Also Sheik doesn't get ***** by space animals, she can gimp the hell out of them similar to Marth's style of gimp vs fast fallers.

ICs can hold their own against Sheik, but it's pretty much even in my opinion. I think Jigglypuff does pretty well vs Sheik as well. Sheik vs Spacies is slightly in the favor of the spacies (IMO), but it's certainly not an impossible match for Sheik.

Honestly, I don't see how Sheik is supposed to be the best in the game simply based on experience. How many tournaments have had good Sheiks near the top lately? If she were really that good, wouldn't people want to play her in order to win money?

 

[Duchock]

So. Waba. The tournament starts at 6 (eastern time) which is like 5 central time. And given time for registration, I'll have to get there by 4 (central). And it takes, what, 3 hours or so to get to Hotlanta? So I should plan on leaving an hour early, just to make sure to give plenty of time.

So noon is the time I'm aiming to leave Birmingham. It seems a lot of people need to be back in town on Sunday (and me kinda too), so to avoid the late hassle of finding housing and all-that-junk-that-I-hate-worse-than-night-driving, I think I'll just leave back for Alabama right after the tourny ends.

Let's take a show of hands: who's with me?

 

[-Chad-]

ICs can hold their own against Sheik, but it's pretty much even in my opinion. I think Jigglypuff does pretty well vs Sheik as well. Sheik vs Spacies is slightly in the favor of the spacies (IMO), but it's certainly not an impossible match for Sheik.

Honestly, I don't see how Sheik is supposed to be the best in the game simply based on experience. How many tournaments have had good Sheiks near the top lately? If she were really that good, wouldn't people want to play her in order to win money?

I disagree that IC's and Jiggs go even with Sheik. Most of Sheiks set-up moves lead to her f-air or u-air which is a kill against Jiggs and it's kinda hard for Jiggs to edgeguard Sheik. And I just don't see IC's going even with Sheik =x.

I think people don't play only Sheik because some people just want to play different ways and they know if they get good enough they can still do reasonably well with any character. I think this is why you don't see everyone maining IC's and doing only infinites.

Lots of "I think"s. gogo opinions.

 

[Shai Hulud]

m2k thinks sheik is the best character in melee.

In terms of number of favorable matchups Sheik is definitely the best but as janitor pointed out characters aren't distributed evenly. Most people play Fox, Falco, Peach, Marth, Sheik. And in terms of those five matchups Sheik is not so good.

I think this is why you don't see everyone maining IC's and doing only infinites.

I tried to do that but it didn't work out. ICs are incredibly frustrating to play because Nana is stupid and always gets herself killed. Plus it's really hard to grab certain characters, like Marth, Fox, Peach, Sheik, Ganon, and CF.

 

[GeorgeTHPS]

So. Waba. The tournament starts at 6 (eastern time) which is like 5 central time. And given time for registration, I'll have to get there by 4 (central). And it takes, what, 3 hours or so to get to Hotlanta? So I should plan on leaving an hour early, just to make sure to give plenty of time.

So noon is the time I'm aiming to leave Birmingham. It seems a lot of people need to be back in town on Sunday (and me kinda too), so to avoid the late hassle of finding housing and all-that-junk-that-I-hate-worse-than-night-driving, I think I'll just leave back for Alabama right after the tourny ends.

Let's take a show of hands: who's with me?

It isn't really necessary to leave 4 hours before you need to be there most of the time. It usually only takes me a little over two hours to get there from Birmingham. Unless there's some heavy delays, which we've never encountered, it's usually safe to leave 3 hours in advance.

If I decide to go, I'll probably be tired the entire time. Hopefully I'd be able to sleep a little on the ride up. Definitely wouldn't mind going.

 

[3GOD]

I disagree that IC's and Jiggs go even with Sheik. Most of Sheiks set-up moves lead to her f-air or u-air which is a kill against Jiggs and it's kinda hard for Jiggs to edgeguard Sheik. And I just don't see IC's going even with Sheik =x.

Well I really don't know the IC's that well, but they supposedly are a counter for Sheik. I personally have never thought that to be true, but I think it's close to even.

As for Jigglypuff, can't it just edgehog Sheik, forcing her to Up-B onto the stage...then ledge hop a Bair to knock her back off? This is how I edgeguard Sheik with most characters (assuming Sheik is far enough away that she must Up-B).

Melee discussion is fun!

 

[nice1]

who all is goin to the b-ham tourney, and is anyone bring setups?

 

[GeorgeTHPS]

My TV is broken at the moment, but I could probably take my Wii without any issues.

 

[theONEjanitor]

sheik can combo every character in the game to kingdom come, except space animals. especially ganon. most ganon's seem to consider sheik the bane of their existence.

Fox has more trouble against low and mid tier, than top tier and high tier, except marth, and falcon possibly

Marth kills everyone in the game pretty easy EXCEPT Sheik

therefore, in a smash vaccuum where everyone plays every character, Sheik is the best.

i dont think IC's counter sheik, since she can kill them so easily. grabbing doesn't work as well, but her tilts still ****.

also about edgeguarding sheik, high level players mix up their edge guards, and that "roll on the edge, f-smash" stuff doesn't work as much. especially if that's you're entire sheik edgeguard strat. many times they just predict you're going to do it and grab the ledge. then it becomes a guessing game.

 

[theONEjanitor]

who all is goin to the b-ham tourney, and is anyone bring setups?

if singles hasn't started by 6 then I'll make it, but i doubt that.
i have to work.

 

[Majist]

is there a b-ham tourney thread? if not, directions are needed.

 

[theONEjanitor]

I'm like f'n sherlock holmes here:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=173910

hiyayayaya

 

[j00t]

sheik can combo every character in the game to kingdom come, except space animals. especially ganon. most ganon's seem to consider sheik the bane of their existence.

Fox has more trouble against low and mid tier, than top tier and high tier, except marth, and falcon possibly

Marth kills everyone in the game pretty easy EXCEPT Sheik

therefore, in a smash vaccuum where everyone plays every character, Sheik is the best.

i dont think IC's counter sheik, since she can kill them so easily. grabbing doesn't work as well, but her tilts still ****.

also about edgeguarding sheik, high level players mix up their edge guards, and that "roll on the edge, f-smash" stuff doesn't work as much. especially if that's you're entire sheik edgeguard strat. many times they just predict you're going to do it and grab the ledge. then it becomes a guessing game.

Who exactly dos Fox have trouble against in mid tier and below? And "falcon possibly" is more in the lines of "Fox destroys Falcon to oblivion: j00t's call is 70/30". Fox also kills Sheik too, imo. I think Marth is Fox's only bad matchup at this point. I hate Marths!

 

[Majist]

hiyayayaya

thanks

Who exactly dos Fox have trouble against in mid tier and below? And "falcon possibly" is more in the lines of "Fox destroys Falcon to oblivion: j00t's call is 70/30". Fox also kills Sheik too, imo. I think Marth is Fox's only bad matchup at this point. I hate Marths!

don't forget Ganon!!

...........

xP

 

[j00t]

thanks


don't forget Ganon!!

...........

xP

Ganon is in the same boat as Falcon is, maybe a "little" bit better. 69/31? But nevertheless, Fox still has a clear advantage. I just suck against him.

 

[ragnarock]

sheik can combo every character in the game to kingdom come, except space animals. especially ganon. most ganon's seem to consider sheik the bane of their existence.

Fox has more trouble against low and mid tier, than top tier and high tier, except marth, and falcon possibly

Marth kills everyone in the game pretty easy EXCEPT Sheik

therefore, in a smash vaccuum where everyone plays every character, Sheik is the best.

i dont think IC's counter sheik, since she can kill them so easily. grabbing doesn't work as well, but her tilts still ****.

also about edgeguarding sheik, high level players mix up their edge guards, and that "roll on the edge, f-smash" stuff doesn't work as much. especially if that's you're entire sheik edgeguard strat. many times they just predict you're going to do it and grab the ledge. then it becomes a guessing game.

Ill have to disagree with you on that janitor, fox **** mid and low the only ones he might have trouble with is doc, mario and luigi because they can chain throw and combo him easy, but he has weapons pretty **** good agaisnts them, the only three to me that gives fox trouble are falco, marth and samus. But shiek is not the best thats why she is not #1, she has more weaknesses than fox, the tier list is based on matchups and she has more bad matchups that fox. True enough sheik can combo and gimp fox, but fox can do the same thing and better.The only thing about sheik that good that she is easy to pick and play. She is good, but is not the best.

 

[theONEjanitor]

Who exactly dos Fox have trouble against in mid tier and below? And "falcon possibly" is more in the lines of "Fox destroys Falcon to oblivion: j00t's call is 70/30". Fox also kills Sheik too, imo. I think Marth is Fox's only bad matchup at this point. I hate Marths!

Jiggs ***** fox unless you camp MASSIVELY, which is difficult on some stages.
DK ***** fox in a similar fashion.
fox is about even with IC's. IC's can take Fox to death from low percents pretty quick.
i think roy is a harder match up for fox than marth.
doc and mario can also give fox probs


Fox and Marth aren't even that bad I dont think. maybe 55-45 marth. drill waveshine upthrow upair, upair takes like 50 damage, plus marth is easy to edgeguard. just don't get grabbed, and its really not that bad a match up for fox.

A Falcon who's good at tech chasing can take Fox from 0-death each stock. not to mention a knee at like what 30 percent sets up for death.

 

[ragnarock]

Jiggs ***** fox unless you camp MASSIVELY, which is difficult on some stages.
DK ***** fox in a similar fashion.
fox is about even with IC's. IC's can take Fox to death from low percents pretty quick.
i think roy is a harder match up for fox than marth.
doc and mario can also give fox probs


Fox and Marth aren't even that bad I dont think. maybe 55-45 marth. drill waveshine upthrow upair, upair takes like 50 damage, plus marth is easy to edgeguard. just don't get grabbed, and its really not that bad a match up for fox.

A Falcon who's good at tech chasing can take Fox from 0-death each stock. not to mention a knee at like what 30 percent sets up for death.

Fox does not have to camp on jiggs, ive played alot of **** good jiggs and never had to camp thats a choice buy the fox player.

Fox is about even with IC's but again fox can shine them off to death with ease and fox can do alot to ICs himself.

Roy if a diffilcult matchup for fox, but not impossible, That matchup favors fox to me

Doc and Mario can give fox probs but fox can ****, ruch and smuther them down.

Falcon can do that stuff to fox, but fox can do way much more, wave shine to death. He can chain throw falcon, he can tech chase falcon to, he out prioritize falcon.

 

[-Chad-]

Roy is not a harder match for Fox as opposed to Marth.

What would make you think this?!

 

[Majist]

^^yeah. Roy is a tougher match for Sheik than Marth, though.

 

[nice1]

^^yeah. Roy is a tougher match for Sheik than Marth, though.

really i thought sheik hand the upper hand since she can cg roy

 

[theONEjanitor]

Roy is not a harder match for Fox as opposed to Marth.

What would make you think this?!

Roy's only kill move is f-smash, which, due to d-tilt is ridiculously easy to get on fox. with marth it requires spacing or grabbing to get a perfect tipper. roy can just CC, d-tilt to f-smash--then d-tilt f-smash edgeguard killing spacies at ridiculously low starting percents. Roy has all the same advantages over fox that marth does; chain grabs, easy(er) edguarding, with the added advantage of roy's d-tilt ****** spacies hard. forward b also tears up spacies.

also fox can't waveshine combo Roy, like he can Marth. he can thunders him, but thunders combo is lame once its predicted. and can't you tech the shine anyway? Roy dies vertically at lower percents than marth. (i think)

and since Fox's edgeguarding isn't THAT strong, roy's bad recovery isn't THAT much of a problem.


i definitely disagree that roy is better against sheik than Marth. Roy does nothing against sheik. and sheik can chaingrab roy easier than most characters. and roy has no hope of recover against a sheik.

 

[Cactuar]

A little late, but someone listed me as Marth at TGMTSBCO. I am a Fox main. Marth is my secondary.

*cactus dances away*