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Aggravating tournament endeavor: Brawl+ ;(

Dan_X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
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Location
Boston, MA
Sorry for wall-of-text, read the TL:DR if you must

Okay everyone, I’ve epically failed, it’s quite unfortunate and utterly disappointing. I attended MassMadness today; one of the largest Smash tournaments in all of Massachusetts. This also happened to be the first tourney I’ve ever attended. I wasn’t sure what to expect, as I’ve never experienced the scenario before. I went to said event with the intent of bringing Brawl+ to the masses, showcasing how great it is; how much better it is than vBrawl.

Unfortunately, I had no way of showing anyone anything. I didn’t have a television with which to show them. The last time I had been to this place was for some gamer fight night, there were only about 20 attendants, and was primarily just a bunch of random friendlies—it was no tournament. At this point in time, I was able to use one of the smaller LCD tvs that the shop had owned, for the small price of $5. Unfortunately, these tvs were not present at the tournament, perhaps because they feared they’d get broken.
I tried desperately, but no one cared, no one would let me hook it up. If I had known, I’d have brought my own television. I didn’t enter the Brawl tournament on the basis that I don’t play Brawl, I play Brawl+. I played some friendlies here and there, and to be honest, hitstun, auto canceling, no tripping aside, the most obvious difference between Brawl+ and vBrawl are the character specific changes, such as gravity and fall speeds. I forgot how unbelievably floaty vBrawl was, especially with a character like Falco. In the friendly, I honestly thought there was something wrong with my controller or something, it just didn’t feel right, not nearly as smooth. Then I realized it’s because I’m use to the amazing tweaks brought forth by the plussery. So, not only did I not enter the tournament, because I don’t play vBrawl, and I wanted to expose Brawl+, but I never even had a chance to show anyone Brawl+. So basically, you could say my presence there was pointless, I could have worked instead and made some money (I took off work for the tournament).

The people that I came into contact with, asking them about Brawl+, knew little or nothing about the project. I’m sure some people there had it, but, I hadn’t come by them. Most everyone I mentioned it to assumed wavedashing was part of Brawl+, I told them it wasn’t. Other people there asked if it was “that set of hacks to make Brawl like Melee” I said no, and told them that it takes the best aspects of both Melee and 64 before it. Some people were out right skeptical, and laughed it off as if it was a ridiculous project. They acted as though, the fact that it’s “hacked” lost its credibility. Many others said they’d love to try it out, that they’ve heard of it, but I never had a tv with which to show them. Not only that, but there were about 105 applicants, and other playing Melee, this would have made for great exposure.

I guess I can say that I’m glad I went. I learned a few things. One, bring a television, so this never happens again. Two, vBrawl sucks more than I ever remembered. Going from watching intense Melee matches to vBrawl is a joke. It’s funny, we take it for granted. Many of us forget how bad vBrawl really is because we’re so use to Brawl+. Each and every match, no matter the skill of the player, was ultimately a game of tag. There would be a few powerful hits, then a bunch of dodging until the next hit. As such, it is incredibly campy. People are literally afraid to make the first move, because it’s much safer to play defensively. Aerial fights were hilarious as everything was just dodged. There’s no reward for anything. No reward for getting in a good hit, or a grab, and if you are rewarded it’s because the opponent messed up. I saw a few matches in which the 8 min timer actually reached under 10 seconds… and that’s with 3 stock. Seriously, how sickening is that? Oh yeah, and in one of the friendlies I played… the first thing that happened after I moved was I tripped. I was dumbfounded, I forgot entirely about tripping.

For Brawl+ to succeed, it has to be PART of the tournament. Or at the very least, I’ll have to stop failing at exposing it. Hopefully others have done a better job showcasing it than me!

TL:DR
•I went to my first Brawl tournament, and hoped to showcase Brawl+
•I never had the option of doing so because I couldn't get my hands on a t.v.
•I didn't know I should have brought my own t.v.
•I didn't enter the tourney because I wanted to showcase Brawl+, but then I never had the option of doing so.
•There was almost no point to me going
•This would have been a great time to expose Brawl+, there were like 105 applicants for the tournament
•I failed!

sorry guys. ;(
 

Almas

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,588
I'm so glad I'm English, at times. Whenever I take Brawl+ to a tournie they're more than willing to hook it up for a little while, just to show it around.

I personally find that entering Brawl/Melee and playing helps my agenda, though. I'm reasonable at Brawl (although pathetic at Melee), and I can use the fact that I can beat most people (and have a fairly close set with many better players) to show that I know what I'm talking about. I think it's important to show to prospective players that we are competent and knowledgeable about the game we are modifying. It's also key to be polite, for obvious reasons - noone is going to take your recommendations if you're being a jerk.

Not to worry - the word of Brawl+ will get around soon enough. Considering the project still isn't at a proper 'full' release (since there are still many things we consider to be too unbalanced), I don't think we should be striving too hard to get it around. Hopefully, within a couple of months we will have something extremely presentable, along with a reasonable set of "advertisements" to persuade people with. We also have some of the "pro" players (such as The Cape, hence the quotation marks), who are able to spread the word to influential members of the smash scene.
 

rocklee10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
452
No offence, but Brawl+ seems kinda cheap to me. Everyone's upset that they can't crush people on Brawl like they can on Melee, so they make Brawl like Melee. No flames for my statement, this is just how I feel.
 

Shell

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Feb 7, 2007
Messages
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You've much yet to learn, rocklee10.

And I'm sorry to hear that, Orca. At least the response to Brawl+ has been growing progressively more positive, even if your tourney didn't work out.
 

rocklee10

Smash Journeyman
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Coming from the guy who is sad because his Mario isn't MK worthy?
 

PanzerOceania

Smash Ace
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No offence, but Brawl+ seems kinda cheap to me. Everyone's upset that they can't crush people on Brawl like they can on Melee, so they make Brawl like Melee. No flames for my statement, this is just how I feel.
Hi, I am an average player, not a pro. I do really like studying the finer aspects of the game, and do understand what these guys are talking about and how it affects the game even if I'm not that good. I was captured by brawl+ from day one because it has an almost unlimited potential to make the game so much better and more fun. I love playing brawl by itself, but just imagine all the new possibilities.

isn't this great? You should try it, it's a lot of fun, it's just like playing the same game, in a different mode that is a lot more fun.
 

Shell

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You're flame baiting me, but I'll resist. Tell me, have you played Brawl+ yet?
 

rocklee10

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lol Shell, I wasn't trying yo anger you, I is sorry.

And again Panzer, you make a good point, but notice all the upgrades in Brawl+ make it just like Melee. And the idea of making Brawl more balanced is great! But you can't. No matter how hard they try, people will always find that some characters > others.

Really, I guess the main thing I don't like is the fact that they want to take away from the best characters. Why can't they give other characters better priority rather than making MK weaker?
 

Shell

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You're worried about your main, that's understandable

MK gains almost as much from Brawl+ as he loses, really. He can gimp even easier, his spammable attacks don't decay, and his quick moves have more stun, etc. at the price of lower survivability. Like I said, you should try it. Also, we didn't nerf anything other than MK's survivability, no other characters. Everything else is as you said, buffs for other characters.

I "tried" vanilla Brawl for 7 months before I decided I was done with it. How long have you tried Brawl+?
 

rocklee10

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I've only done it like 3-7 times with a friend, I'm to big of a wuss to hack my Wii. (I'm pore, so if I break it, I'm screwed untill the
Wii 2
comes out.)

Plus, I'm not sure if Brawl+ will ever become competetive, and if it dosen't, than why play it just for friendlies?
 

Shell

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Brawl+ is all about being competitive. That's at the core of its focus. Tourneys are already happening. I'm not suggesting that it ever will or should overtake vBrawl, but it's already gathering its own competitive community.

I can understand that you don't wish to hack your Wii, but if you don't mess around with channel files (.wad) then there's very little risk. But I respect your decision to play it safe.

(If you haven't played with the most recent code set (beta 1.32) you really should. It's so much fun.)
 

Shell

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Certainly. If you have any more questions about Brawl+, just PM me so we don't clog up this thread.

Also, even if you can't play it due to your non-modded Wii, you should check out some of the combo videos coming out. They're nasty.
 
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Strictly using Gecko OS to load the Brawl+ codeset is about as safe as downloading a Virtual Console game, in my experience. I've modded at least 5 Wiis and stepped people through modding even more. No problems so far.

And for the record, I'd have more fun playing Brawl+ friendlies until SSB4 then playing vBrawl tournaments.
 

PanzerOceania

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tournament versions of fighters have been coming out for ages, and often not from the official company that put it out. Just think if this as a fan made tournament edition. Just installing the basics to get this to work is really a zero risk deal. I am also poor, and wouldn't ever mod any of my systems, I don't even do any of that stuff on my PSP, but the Wii stuff is super safe and stuff. See what you and your friends think of it :)
 

Problem2

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To add to what Panzer said. Back when Street Fighter II was popular at the arcade, players modded the arcades to make them play faster and allow supers to be done in the air. Unlike some companies, Capcom actually took this as an oppurtunity and re-released Street Fighter II with several of the changes done by hackers. This became known as Hyper Street Fighter II. (or was it the first Turbo? I don't remember exactly lol)
 

Williaint

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All they need to do now is supply downloadable content to make "Hyper-Brawl Turbo". That way they wouldn't need to release anything in stores, and Nintendo could still make money if they had to :p
 

Problem2

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so yeah, many games get tournament versions. The big difference here is that Capcom supports tournament editions while Nintendo considers their games sacred as they are. Hacking games = bad is a mentality of mostly players who grew up playing Nintendo. I know, I was one and thought that way for a long time.

But to really stay on topic, I tried introducing Brawl+ to a tournament crowd too and was shot down. I wasn't really adamant enough about it, but the tournament host pretty much 'lol' at Brawl+ and called it a wanna be Melee and people who design it should just get over it and play Brawl.

We've become friends since then, so maybe some day he'll at least try it if I get another chance to expose B+.
 

Blank Mauser

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My tournament was like that as well for a while. A lot of people were thinking it was silly and was just a worst Melee and a better Brawl, but I think when I started playing with my Ivysuar a few were interested in what new things it had too. They cycled through the characters saying how broken each one was and such like that. I know one friend likes the game enough to say he'd want in on a tournament for it, so it was fun.

Sorry to hear your tournament experience was so bad you couldn't enter though. I heard it was a crowded venue with no chairs and huge waiting times. Sure there'll be other tournies for you to share B+ in.
 

Shell

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The arguments against Brawl+ are all pretty similar -- either "It's just melee. Play melee" or "I'm afraid of hacking my Wii."

These both have elements of truth to them, but are pretty far from being the total truth of what Brawl+ is and what the risks are(n't) for installing it.

Given the number of times I've seen these arguments, I think it would be helpful to have a concise, written description of Brawl+ that introduces it favorably. Sort of like what Goodoldganon / GHNecko are trying to do with their demonstration videos and Jiang is doing with his FAQ but in one, 5-6 sentence form that could be read / handed out at tourneys or C/P'd at ignorant (not necessarily malevolent) posts.

Ideas?
 

Dan_X

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I heard it was a crowded venue with no chairs and huge waiting times. Sure there'll be other tournies for you to share B+ in.
Yeah dude, the place was absolutely PACKED. It was so clustered that getting from one spot to another was a joke, as there were back-to-back people. Still, the tournament was fairly well organized, or at least, from my perspective it seemed to be. Though, perhaps avid tourney goers would disagree.

Yeah, Shell, anything we can do that will promote Brawl+, revealing it in some way will definately help Brawl+. I think we should make fliers, beautifully made in photoshop and or illustrator, that explain Brawl+, and excite people for it! :D

I'm thinking about making some...
 

Blank Mauser

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I think anything made by other players is always going to be taken with some skepticism. The best way to promote Brawl+ is to show off good matches and get good at it. =D
 

PanzerOceania

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also just be prepared at a tourney, have your own tv and wii and a place to set it up that isn't a back corner. Then bring a few of your friends who are good and already know how to play it and start playing, every once in awhile ask people if they want to check it out, but don't act desperate like "YU MAST PLAY!" but do get the word out, I think that's the best way to do it. I'm going to try in a few weeks at a game club that I haven't really gone to, sure it isn't a tournament, but I have to start somewhere :)

Once we get more organized and more support we can put up signs, reference the podcast after it's gotten a little more regular, who knows, maybe somebody will make a website. People have to know "this is something" also we have a lot of work ahead of us, but the closer we get to a "gold version" that everyone agrees as standard, and maybe even have a release date. This stuff needs to be synchronized and standard for people to pick it up. The more competent and professional we seem the better, which also means sounding intelligent and respectful when describing it to people, and taking time to answer their concerns etc.
 

Clever_Sleazoid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
188
I'm sorry Orca.

I'm taking Brawl+ AND a TV to Backyard Brawl II hopefully (March 14th), and just set it up somewhere in the back with the friendly TVs (if there are any) and hopefully show some people what an amazing game it is.

It's very true however, if people bring Brawl+ to tournies ad just have people try/play it in the back scenes of it, it WILL get much more exposure. It's how I got into Brawl+, trying it at a tourney.
 

Dan_X

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I'm sorry Orca.

I'm taking Brawl+ AND a TV to Backyard Brawl II hopefully (March 14th), and just set it up somewhere in the back with the friendly TVs (if there are any) and hopefully show some people what an amazing game it is.

It's very true however, if people bring Brawl+ to tournies ad just have people try/play it in the back scenes of it, it WILL get much more exposure. It's how I got into Brawl+, trying it at a tourney.
Yeah, I had everything that I needed, the Wii, Brawl, SD card (in the Wii), the most current code set, sensor bar, Wii mote, wires, and my controllers... The only thing I lacked was a t.v. with which to show people Brawl+. My friend was with me, the one I play Brawl+ with 24/7. We would have made good example of it. However, I guess I can forgive myself for being an idiot and not taking a t.v., I thought I'd be able to use one of the television sets owned by the shop, but they put them away. All I can say is I've learned from my rediculous mistake, the only thing stopping me was not having a t.v. lol.

Next time... next time. Good luck to those of you taking it to tournies, make sure you have a t.v! LoL. :p
 

GimR

GimR, Co-Founder of VGBootCamp
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Don't worry about it. At my up coming East Coast Regional Circuit Tourney, "Brawl 'Til You Fall", I'm gonna have my own personal Brawl+ Setup. I'm gonna try to get people to play and have fun :)
 

shanus

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Don't worry about it. At my up coming East Coast Regional Circuit Tourney, "Brawl 'Til You Fall", I'm gonna have my own personal Brawl+ Setup. I'm gonna try to get people to play and have fun :)
Have I ever told you I love you?
 

DtJ XeroXen

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Not to flame or anything, but Brawl+ won't ever have as big of a competitive environment as Brawl, in my opinion.

You can't buy it on shelves, meaning that random people can't pick it up, play it, an decide they want to go competitive until AFTER they hear about it, which is most likely after they decide to go competitive in Brawl. (Not saying they won't switch though, but from what I've seen, most won't)

The only way for this to have a large competitive community, would be for it to be easily accessible without hacking your Wii, or without buying a USB Gecko. Meaning, lots of people won't have access to it.

Not to mention, many people won't want to switch to Brawl+, after excelling in Brawl, people like that usually don't have the patience to re-learn a game. (I haven't played Brawl+, so I don't know if it's hard to do, but it's still a mindset)

But that's just my two cents. I still respect the competitive community you do have, though.

(But because Nintendo are nubsauce, they won't release an update of Brawl at all to make it competitive, especially with their whole "Casual" thing going on right now.)
 

kupo15

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Well I would think not having to buy anything off the shelves would be nice since its cheaper and you don't have to buy a USB gecko either
 

GimR

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Have I ever told you I love you?
LOL, I just got your Vistor message, I'll respond soon

Not to flame or anything, but Brawl+ won't ever have as big of a competitive environment as Brawl, in my opinion.

You can't buy it on shelves, meaning that random people can't pick it up, play it, an decide they want to go competitive until AFTER they hear about it, which is most likely after they decide to go competitive in Brawl. (Not saying they won't switch though, but from what I've seen, most won't)

The only way for this to have a large competitive community, would be for it to be easily accessible without hacking your Wii, or without buying a USB Gecko. Meaning, lots of people won't have access to it.

Not to mention, many people won't want to switch to Brawl+, after excelling in Brawl, people like that usually don't have the patience to re-learn a game. (I haven't played Brawl+, so I don't know if it's hard to do, but it's still a mindset)

But that's just my two cents. I still respect the competitive community you do have, though.

(But because Nintendo are nubsauce, they won't release an update of Brawl at all to make it competitive, especially with their whole "Casual" thing going on right now.)
I know what you mean. I've been thinking about the exact same thing. Noobs will never know about Brawl+ making it only known by the community. Also, people don't want to have to relearn the game. because of this I only see side tourneys being vialbe for Brawl+. After Brawl 'Til you fall my bro and I might make Brawl+ singles a side tourney at our next event.


One more thing. You guys are gonna have to make it so D3 can't reverse grab after D-throwing the opponent. Because of the dash dance code you can just run and then instantly do a reverse grab. You can chain characters to like 80% from one side of the stage to the other with no problem
 

Almas

Smash Lord
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Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,588
Uhm, Brawl+ is completely free provided you have a copy of Brawl and an SD card. The USB Gecko tool allows you to make and modify codes in real-time, but is in no way necessary to merely use the codes.

I disagree that just because a game is modified from the original that it is less likely to become a standard. I've had it mentioned by many people going to things where I've setup Brawl+ that they really enjoy it, and atleast one person at every place I've been to has asked for details on how to set it up themselves.

knuttz45 said:
Almas - Brawl +! combos looked cool. thats what i imagined brawl would have been.
Yeniths (a TO) said:
Almas - Nice to meet you as well, your a very nice guy. I really enjoyed our brawl set, was scary close, shame I didn't get a chance to play you on melee however. Thanks from bringing Brawl+ along also, I really had a good time with it and am considering buying a English copy of Brawl just to play it.
Aiko (a TO) said:
Almas - Nice to see you again zach Thanks for showing brawl plus to everyone, I think there is definitely some interest
Tails Chao said:
Almas - Nice to meet you. You were a cool guy and Brawl+ was certainly interesting (though it was apparent that some things like Sheik needed work on :o), so I think it's mission success on your idea to promote it.
Willz said:
Almas - I didn't get to speak to you but you seemed a cool guy. I saw your matches with Calzum on Brawl though, nice ROB. And thanks for bringing along Brawl+. Me and Calzum enjoyed the rapage we gave people with our Falcons!
oOJaseOo said:
almas : was great to meet you tho im not a fan of brawl + and i kinda regret trying to fight your rob useing gannon but good times all the same
Okay, well I guess not everyone can like it ;p.

My point is that if the game is good enough, people will happily make the modifications.
 

GimR

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but DDDs chain grab is gone though. His dthrow is techable now
Oh, I guess I need to get the new code set :)

Nice feedback.

Counterstrike succeeded as a successful tourney mod.
yeah but that's PC, PC thrives with mods, especially the half life engine. You don't have to mod your PC and go through a grueling process to play the mods like with Brawl. As much as I'd like it to be competitive, I think it's going to take a lot to get a lot of people to get into it. They may say they're interested but may be to lazy to mod their Wii's themselves.
 

Dark Sonic

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You don't have to mod your PC and go through a grueling process to play the mods like with Brawl.They may say they're interested but may be to lazy to mod their Wii's themselves.
It's hardly a grueling process.

1. Get the homebrew channel (there's plenty of tutorials out there, we even have one on this site). Really, I think everybody should get the homebrew channel, even if their not interested in brawl+. It has plenty of other applications (I hope you are only using legal ones:bee:)
2. Download brawl plussery codeset (and stuff that goes with it, you know code manager and stuff)
3.????
4. Profit!
 

GimR

GimR, Co-Founder of VGBootCamp
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It's hardly a grueling process.

1. Get the homebrew channel (there's plenty of tutorials out there, we even have one on this site). Really, I think everybody should get the homebrew channel, even if their not interested in brawl+. It has plenty of other applications (I hope you are only using legal ones:bee:)
2. Download brawl plussery codeset (and stuff that goes with it, you know code manager and stuff)
3.????
4. Profit!
LOL, I'm just being the Devil's Advocate. I'm trying to add fuel to your guys fire for when you have to convince people to play :chuckle:
 

Shell

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I see wut you did thur.

But seriously, I installed Brawl+ on my friend's Wii in about 4 minutes.
 
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