Afro's thoughts on Melee Enthusiasts

[Equi]

ok...i think you may need a lesson in reading comprehension. i did say that not all players fall under the descriptions listed, and Afro may or may not. i personally played him in GGXX at FAST1, and he played robo-ky. also, most people who play brawl do not come from other fighting games. most have either played melee competitively or no fighting games at all. just playing a game does not count in this discussion, as they have to at least go to tournaments, compete, and try to get to the top level of play. and, a lot of people that play smash just like Nintendo characters a lot. in case you haven't noticed, i like Peach a lot. she's one of my favorite characters in the video game world, so i'm not trying to bash anyone with what i'm saying. i'm simply stating what is true. no one would get interested in any fighting game if they didn't like character designs. it is part of what companies use to draw people to games, and there's nothing wrong with that, as i believe i stated before.

but, don't take my word for it. go and ask the majority of your brawl community what other fighting games they have played competitively. also, ask them what they think the elements are that make a solid, competitive fighting game. more than likely, you will receive a lot of "I haven't played any other competitively." or "I don't know." it's simply the majority crowd that smash attracts, both brawl and melee. smash is a bunch of characters that apply to younger children, for the most part, so that is mostly who is playing the game. being so, those kids haven't been alive long enough to play other games competitively, so how would they know what is competitively sound? they only know of one thing. again, not trying to bash you, just stating facts.

even a good number of the top echelon of players in melee and brawl have only smash under their belts for competitive fighters. please correct me if i am wrong on that, but i think that's true. so, just check this stuff out before you try to blow up on me about your argument here. while i think that melee may be the better competitive game, i'm not very adamant about either one, as i play both rather casually now. but, i used to play brawl and melee competitively, and am pretty decent at both, so i know about each of the metagames to a good extent.

this post has a lot to do with the purpose of this thread. people aren't just upset with brawl because more people are just playing brawl because it's better, etc. they are upset because a newer game is killing another gaming community simply because it is new, not necessarily because it is better for competition. Even when SFIII came in, people still had a solid community in ST because they knew both games were sound competitively. a good number of the higher echelon of players that i have talked to have simply said that they play brawl simply for money, not because they feel it is a worthwhile game to play. a lot of people play it, so they do it to beat people they address as "n00bs", and take their money. easy as that.

in closing, i am really not for or against either game, but i do want you to see the other side of the picture, as your view seemed to falsify the thoughts of a lot of "melee enthusiasts". hopefully this will help people at least understand where i and a few others are coming from, if nothing else.

and @ Gingerr - yes, for relatively balanced fighting games, GGXX is the answer. very good game.

This post is not only NOT insulting (first one yet?) but also thought out AND contributive. Why cant there be more posts like these? However onto the Rebuttal.

I see where you're going there. But it seems like a limited judgment and it's categorizing and partially false to say quite a few Brawl players are like this. Are there some? Sure. But I know quite a few Brawlers that weren't active in Melee and competed in Guilty Gear and Street Fighter tourneys. It just seems... well... pointless to what we're discussing at hand in the thread whether you are correct or not, or whether I'm correct or not.

The experience of fighting games and its complexity is subjective, and a Brawl player's opinion of Brawl being in depth is no less just because they haven't experienced other works, to which I know quite a few players that have.

We're speaking of the competitive Smash base here and they're certainly not young children, what's your point? Unless I misintrepreted it your post, correct me.

Brawl did not kill melee, people who decided not to play melee anymore did. There is nothing stopping you from hosting melee tourneys or playing melee with friends or playing melee at brawl tourneys etc. The scene has always and will always be there as long as people WANT it to be there. It will only die if the people let it/want it to die. Hating on brawl for the lack of melee tourneys is the wrong way to approach the situation, especially when the brawl hate is false.

dude this isnt an english composition essay, we dont like it cuz its simpler aka dumbed down aka scrub like aka no L cancel aka no hitstun aka cheap aka simple i could go on for a while but the point has been made, it lacks all the things that made melee amazing

This post does not even refute what we said responding to you. Do you not see what we are saying?

Dumbed down = Less hit stun does not equate to being dumbed down. Less hit stun, if even adding more elements to defensive play, adds more thought, as we've stated many times.

L-Cancel = Pretty minor thing to ***** about. No offense. There are many aerials in Brawl that you can automatically jab out of. Not only that, but it makes you rethink which aerials you can use strategically based off of lag (i.e. Wolf's fair) So yeah.

No hitstun = Already addressed

Cheap = ?

Simple = Simplistic elements do not make it more simple. We've argued this a thousand times also. Rock Paper Scissors is not simple, there's a lot of psychological reading involved in that. Please address our points.

 

[spider_sense]

Look at my previous. If you're looking for "required thoughts" in the aspect of Brawl. Anything you learn in Melee can be immediately transferred to Brawl. The same logic and rules can apply.

 

[Kagesekan]

Brawl does not take more thought then melee.

I can't believe people actually think that.

Agreed, though this may be hard to see for some people because all the thought happening in Melee is 5,000 times faster.

 

[ranmaru]

Brawl did not kill melee, people who decided not to play melee anymore did. There is nothing stopping you from hosting melee tourneys or playing melee with friends or playing melee at brawl tourneys etc. The scene has always and will always be there as long as people WANT it to be there. It will only die if the people let it/want it to die. Hating on brawl for the lack of melee tourneys is the wrong way to approach the situation, especially when the brawl hate is false.

Quoted for truth. <3

 

[Equi]

How long are you going to keep up the act that you wanted to get something done? lol

and if you think hitstun is just a way to get a continuation of hits in terms of gameplay then you will never know why it is important. Simple as that.

PLEASE master NES n00b, explain to us why hitstun is VERY IMPORTANT for competitively play for anything other then flashy combos.

Im 100% certain,that you are not going to respond with anything intelligent at all.

Like all your previous posts.

 

[lamugi]

I like brawl cause i can barely get punished!!!!

 

[GA Peach]

And I respect anyone who is still trying to keep it alive, because you want good things to last as long as they can. All I'm saying is that it eventually will go due to its age. You will not give it up, but new people will not buy it. All I'm saying. (I won't give it up either. )

Super Turbo is still a fairly large community, and it's older than Melee by 4 years, dood...

 

[Equi]

Brawl does not take more thought then melee.

I can't believe people actually think that.

I can see that "thought per hit" went completely over your head.
Its alot different then guarenteed combos. Thinking about yoru opponents reaction every step of the way through a 5 hit continuation requires much more thinking then a 5 hit GUARENTEED MUSCLE REFLEX COMBO that your opponent can not escape.

This is not an opinion, this is a fact. Having to predict every hit for 5 hits requires MUCH MORE THOUGHT then 5 guarenteed hits.

Seriously, theres no way you can not understand this.
Look at the sentence, its a fact. Theres nothing you can disagree with. The same combo not working every time in the same situation, having to adapt to your opponent differently EVEN IF ITS THE SAME SITUATION requires MORE THINKING then if the combo is guarenteed in the same situation.

How do you not understand?

 

[ranmaru]

Hmmm, interesting point.

 

[Betrayed]

Brawl players are overcompensating for what they don't have, much like people that buy Macs are overcompensating for the fact that they can't use a Windows machine without it telling them to screw themselves because they're an idiot.

Guess what?

Say all you will. Guess which is still better?

That's right. Melee.
That's right. Windows.

OH GOD BRAWL IS SUCH A GOOD GAME OH GOD OH GOD LET'S MOD IT TO BE LIKE MELEE NOW OH GOOODDDDDD

And, and by the way:

That's a very logical argument, but your problem is... well... Brawl sucks.

 

[ranmaru]

Brawl players are overcompensating for what they don't have, much like people that buy Macs are overcompensating for the fact that they can't use a Windows machine without it telling them to screw themselves because they're an idiot.

Guess what?

Say all you will. Guess which is still better?

That's right. Melee.
That's right. Windows.

OH GOD BRAWL IS SUCH A GOOD GAME OH GOD OH GOD LET'S MOD IT TO BE LIKE MELEE NOW OH GOOODDDDDD

And, and by the way:

That's a very logical argument, but your problem is... well... Brawl sucks.

Funny how you mention logic, as this statement has none.

 

[Betrayed]

Funny how you mention logic, as this statement has 0.

Funny how you debunk my post with reasoning, as this post as none.

 

[Equi]

Brawl players are overcompensating for what they don't have, much like people that buy Macs are overcompensating for the fact that they can't use a Windows machine without it telling them to screw themselves because they're an idiot.

Guess what?

Say all you will. Guess which is still better?

That's right. Melee.
That's right. Windows.

OH GOD BRAWL IS SUCH A GOOD GAME OH GOD OH GOD LET'S MOD IT TO BE LIKE MELEE NOW OH GOOODDDDDD

And, and by the way:

That's a very logical argument, but your problem is... well... Brawl sucks.

Please refer to our response to Doodah's post
Thank you

 

[Betrayed]

That would require me to sift through 9 pages of idiot looking for said post, which is also probably full of poorly thought out BAAAAWWWWW from you.

 

[ranmaru]

That would require me to sift through 9 pages of idiot looking for said post, which is also probably full of poorly thought out BAAAAWWWWW from you.

Then you lose, due to being too lazy to even look up a post, and therefore resulting in you looking like a stupid jerk. GOOD DAY SIR.

 

[Betrayed]

Oh wait, I've been on Smashboards far too long!

Dear mods,

Delete my obviously trolling crap, side with the brawl*** that has no idea what he's talking about, give me the appropriate points towards my ban, and as always, have a nice day.

BRAWL SUCKS. LOL MELEE 4 LYFE HUR HURRR

 

[Equi]

That would require me to sift through 9 pages of idiot looking for said post, which is also probably full of poorly thought out BAAAAWWWWW from you.

Im sorry we cant think as much as you, and respond with the EXACT SAME POSTS as every other Melee Enthusiast in the thread.

Seriously do you even read your own posts, do you feel unique? Compare your post to OTRUs, Skrachs, or Linguinis. Are you aware that you posted the exact same **** they posted, THEN when responded to, RESPONDED with the exact same **** they responded!

Good ****. The best way to beat your opponents arguement, is to completely ignore it. ESPECIALLY when you are incapable of arguing logically.

You would make, a perfect representative of what a melee enthusiast is. Good ****. Please. Join us, we need MORE examples of the stupidity that the anti brawl supporters, such as yourself post.

 

[Betrayed]

Then you lose, due to being too lazy to even look up a post, and therefore looking like a stupid *******.

But before I go:



(That's me laughing at you. I know you Brawl players are used to everything going slower.)

 

[MusicalMike]

The fact that people who play brawl are ridiculed is sad in itself.

 

[ranmaru]

But before I go:



(That's me laughing at you. I know you Brawl players are used to everything going slower.)

I play Melee. I only have a GameCube. Make you feel better? (Makes your post quite irrelevent, and I laugh at your misfortune) I don't think Brawl > Melee or Melee > Brawl is the case anymore, sadly.

 

[Equi]

But before I go:



(That's me laughing at you. I know you Brawl players are used to everything going slower.)

Please, continue to fill the thread with exactly how stupid a melee enthusiasts arguements really are.

Please. Like im not being sarcastic. You have no idea at how good you are at proving my point.

 

[Betrayed]

Here's an idea for a topic:

Dear Brawl ***s:

If your game is so much ****ing better than ours, then quit modding it to include our techs.

Sincerely,

Betrayed (the guy that liked Smashboards before the brawl***s invaded and turned everything to ****)

Coming up!

AN IN DEPTH ANALYSIS ON THE EFFECTS OF USING LUIGI ON A TUESDAY AFTER SEVEN IN PINK ON FINAL DESTINATION WITH FINAL SMASHES OFF

 

[Betrayed]

Please, continue to fill the thread with exactly how stupid a melee enthusiasts arguements really are.

Please. Like im not being sarcastic. You have no idea at how good you are at proving my point.

*arguments
*I'm

HURRRRRR SPELLCHECK. UR STUPID LOL!!!!!!!

 

[ranmaru]

HURRRRRR SPELLCHECK. UR STUPID LOL!!!!!!!

Grammar Nazi.

 

[xYz]

**** what a popular thread.

Brawl was only fun in the beginning, and when i mean beginning I mean at Hardknocks. Because I owned u all with Ike. muahahah!!

playing competitive is really not fun at all... It's actually stressful for me. Even when im winning with GW, only thing im doing is out prioritizing you're moves. Which I feel is a bit bland. Only time I get ***** is when Snake uptilts me at 88% Or an Olimar/character camps me out ridiculously.

Brawl Friendlies are the **** tho, i enjoy those.

Then you have Brawl Doubles, which is playable. But from now on, im only teaming with a snake/MK/DDD.

TNT is CFL Territory, along with all the other major CFL Crews... we're family BABY!!

Melee is infact the better game, we all know this. Alot of people though like both. We have more brawl haters though, and I can prolly count with one hand how many people hate melee over brawl.

I Do Enjoy Melee singles, but the skill gap is amazing. For the past 4 months, I only play brawl when I go to tournaments, and I usually place very high or win doubles. That just goes to show you how much skill/depth goes into brawl. I know im not the only one who does this.

These are just my 2cents that im contributing to all this.

 

[Equi]

Here's an idea for a topic:

Dear Brawl ***s:

If your game is so much ****ing better than ours, then quit modding it to include our techs.

Sincerely,

Betrayed (the guy that liked Smashboards before the brawl***s invaded and turned everything to ****)

Coming up!

AN IN DEPTH ANALYSIS ON THE EFFECTS OF USING LUIGI ON A TUESDAY AFTER SEVEN IN PINK ON FINAL DESTINATION WITH FINAL SMASHES OFF

Again at no point did we say brawl was better then melee. Continue to prove that you do not possess the ability to read. Please continue to prove our point more and more and more.

And seriously, using a mispelling as a rebuttal against us? Haha.
Continue to show why youre nothing more then a mindless drone whos intent on spreading the word of brawl being bad for no reason whatsoever.

 

[Betrayed]

Grammar Nazi.

You should use proper grammar if you're going to insult it. (Referring to cockbag A, you're cockbag B)

 

[MusicalMike]

Here's an idea for a topic:

Dear Brawl ***s:

If your game is so much ****ing better than ours, then quit modding it to include our techs.

Sincerely,

Betrayed (the guy that liked Smashboards before the brawl***s invaded and turned everything to ****)

Coming up!

AN IN DEPTH ANALYSIS ON THE EFFECTS OF USING LUIGI ON A TUESDAY AFTER SEVEN IN PINK ON FINAL DESTINATION WITH FINAL SMASHES OFF

I honestly can't name one person who's for the hacks and who also hasn't played Melee. Feel free to prove me wrong.

If your game is so much better than ours...play it instead?

All this energy used to hate brawl could instead be used to strengthen the Melee scene. Seriously with this much activity, I don't see how it could possibly fail.

No hate, just saying.

 

[Betrayed]

Again at no point did we say brawl was better then melee. Continue to prove that you do not possess the ability to read. Please continue to prove our point more and more and more.

And seriously, using a mispelling as a rebuttal against us? Haha.
Continue to show why youre nothing more then a mindless drone whos intent on spreading the word of brawl being bad for no reason whatsoever.

*misspelling
*you're
*who's

****.



I HAVEN'T RAGED THIS HARD SINCE I WALKED INTO A MAC STORE BY MISTAKE. HOLY ****.

DEAR GOD A BAN WOULD BE GREAT. THEN I WOULDN'T FEEL OBLIGATED TO REPLY TO THIS HORSE****.

GET THE MODS.

 

[spiritdragon]

I like brawl cause I can never die, can just camp all day and win, and get easy money off of tons of people!

Who plays melee nowadays? That thing takes too much skill f that.

 

[MusicalMike]

That vegeta picture is amazing.

10 uneeded Chars

 

[Equi]

*misspelling
*you're
*who's

****.



I HAVEN'T RAGED THIS HARD SINCE I WALKED INTO A MAC STORE BY MISTAKE. HOLY ****.

DEAR GOD A BAN WOULD BE GREAT. THEN I WOULDN'T FEEL OBLIGATED TO REPLY TO THIS HORSE****.

GET THE MODS.

Im against a mod banning you.
You literally have no idea how good you are at proving our point.
Anyone reading this user's posts can immediately reread our OP and realize we covered users like this (multiple times). Your posts are perfect examples.

 

[Betrayed]

 

[ranmaru]

*misspelling
*you're
*who's

****.



I HAVEN'T RAGED THIS HARD SINCE I WALKED INTO A WINDOWS STORE BY MISTAKE. HOLY ****.

DEAR GOD A BLOWJOB WOULD BE GREAT. THEN I WOULDN'T FEEL OBLIGATED TO REPLY TO THIS HORSE****.

GET THE MODS.

I'm sincerely sorry that you are raging. I am not, though. I am laughing at your half-*** attempts to sound smart. You are sad.

 

[Betrayed]

Im against a mod banning you.
You literally have no idea how good you are at proving our point.
Anyone reading this user's posts can immediately reread our OP and realize we covered users like this (multiple times). Your posts are perfect examples.

 

[Betrayed]

I'm sincerely sorry that you are raging. I am not, though. I am laughing at your half-*** attempts to sound smart. You are sad.

 

[Betrayed]

MORE MORE MORE

 

[Kagesekan]

**** what a popular thread.

Brawl was only fun in the beginning, and when i mean beginning I mean at Hardknocks. Because I owned u all with Ike. muahahah!!

playing competitive is really not fun at all... It's actually stressful for me. Even when im winning with GW, only thing im doing is out prioritizing you're moves. Which I feel is a bit bland. Only time I get ***** is when Snake uptilts me at 88% Or an Olimar/character camps me out ridiculously.

Brawl Friendlies are the **** tho, i enjoy those.

Then you have Brawl Doubles, which is playable. But from now on, im only teaming with a snake/MK/DDD.

TNT is CFL Territory, along with all the other major CFL Crews... we're family BABY!!

Melee is infact the better game, we all know this. Alot of people though like both. We have more brawl haters though, and I can prolly count with one hand how many people hate melee over brawl.

I Do Enjoy Melee singles, but the skill gap is amazing. For the past 4 months, I only play brawl when I go to tournaments, and I usually place very high or win doubles. That just goes to show you how much skill/depth goes into brawl. I know im not the only one who does this.

These are just my 2cents that im contributing to all this.

I want to play your G&W. G&W vs R.O.B. has always been a hard match-up for me until just recently. I think I have it figured out but I want to play against a really good G-dubbs to be sure.

 

[Vonzar the Soulrender]

Brawl > Melee

(even though Samus is fail now)

 

[Frames]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand why this thread should even be here. I read all the posts and what it seems like overall is that Afro+Equi are sick of people ignorantly bashing brawl with no real experience of the game.

That's a perfectly good reason to be upset, but I think that based off the attitudes of the people here, this thread has only reinforced their opinions and hasn't really provided any incentive to change their opinions about either brawl or melee.

I'm not sure what you guys were trying to accomplish with this, but if you were hoping that people would stop bashing brawl outright just because you offer a logical argument and support it well, then I'm afraid it doesn't look good. They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks, so trying to tell them to stop how they act or change their opinions just by making a thread which would only end up creating more problems is a bad idea. At this point, most people have pretty much made up their mind regarding brawl and melee and whether or not they like one or the other, and whether or not they find either game competitive, so it's gonna be pretty hard to try and change their opinions. A post like the first one is more fit for a blog really than a message board.

As far as the games go, I think people should just play either one, there's gonna be people who dislike your choice or preference either way. Instead of trying to change them you should just focus on keeping the like-minded individuals in the community together, so that you can have a stronger community. I know people who dislike brawl for it's differences just as there are people who dislike melee because of it's dependence on advanced techniques.

It's easy for melee people to hate on brawl because they feel like brawl really killed their community. 2007, the last big melee year, had record turnouts in tournaments, boasting several tournaments with over 200+ in attendance. A year that was supposed to have low turnouts, after being dropped by MLG from the circuit, ended up being the biggest yet. Only a year later, even "big" tournaments draw barely over 100 now. People who loved this game for years and competed in tournaments are upset, and they just want to enjoy melee the same way they did but it's harder now because brawl is emerging as a competing force in the market.

Basically I just want people to realize that yea people may hate on brawl for stupid reasons, and some people may not understand anything about either game but still hate brawl, but there are also some people who do understand and genuinely dislike brawl. Either way, you can't expect people to just love brawl, and you really can't expect to change their opinions about it either, at least not by making a thread like this.

edit - tl;dr "Can't we all just get along???" - Rodney King