Advanced Techniques in Brawl

[Zabutur]

your point is...

 

[teeman92]

they are changing the physics on brawl so most likely,you can kiss wavedasing g'bye

 

[Ixninjax]

why do ppl want it out for? if you only wanna play casually, then don't learn and don't get better. If you wanna get better, then learn how to wavedash and then how use it effectively. Advanced techs are for the truly competitive ppl who are willing to take time out of their own lives to practice them. Why should we feel bad when we go out of our way to get better while you spam smashes and dash attacks and complain when you lose. Why should we lower our standards of competitive play so you can keep up with us? The problem isn't with wavedashing at all really. It's with ppl who are to lazy practice these techniques, so instead they call us cheap, elitist, ppl who rely on glitches( wavedashing, im just moving left then right). And the worst of these ppl are the ones who haven't even tried these techniques yet.

 

[Zabutur]

I could probably 5 stock you. Ssb64, ssbm. Take your pick

Spite, is a great reason to remove a technique, dontcha think?

Oh wait no, you're just being a little child. Wahh I want this removed becuz this guy I dun like wants it in, despite how useful a technique it is. Spite! spite! spite!

sooo spite seems to be the number one reason for wanting the WD removed, from what ive observed so far.

Or as I call it, "Scrub Angst''

Scrubs have tempers man, watch out. Oh wait, don't watch out because scrubs are the earths lowest life form.

scrubs have tempers, eh? look in a mirror, you're about to explode.
IMO, Smash is all about how I like it, and since I'm not too fond of WD, why not get rid of it?

wait... didn't you originally say you could 8-stock me?

as far as removing techniques, why not go along the same lines as the nubz who want Dr. Mario out:
"remove it(him) so we can have room for other things..."
gay? yes.

that's reason #14 out of (*counting reasons*) why WDng is likely to say adios.

 

[NES n00b]

I am actually going to laugh when wavedashing is back in, no joke.

People say that they will laugh at people who want wavedashing in because they can't live without it. The same could be said that people who don't want it in can't live with it in. I know this is not the case, but you can see why it is stupid to make fun of another persons pain.

Just in case people say I am hypocrite, I will laugh at the situation and not at the people who did not want it in.

 

[Takalth]

Well, one post with a couple pretty lame ideas.

teeman92: "They're changing the physics in brawl."

Everything I've seen shows evidence of the same physics.

Zabatur: "remove it(him) so we can have room for other things..."

I just hope you were being sarcastic, unless you believe that making an otherwise pointless change to the physics engine will allow them to put in more content instead of less.

"that's reason #14 out of (*counting reasons*) why WDng is likely to say adios."

0+1 does not equal 14.

 

[Pip]

I believe wavedashing per-se isnt important, i think it is what wavedashing brings to the table what is important... what i mean by this is that the most important part about wavedashing is the movement ability that it gives us, and the awesome mindgames and techniques that come with it.

Wavedashing gave us (through a development known glitch) what should have been in melee all along: a fast, character dependant (in its length and speed) forward and back dashes that we didnt have with just running...

Basically, what im trying to say is that it is VERY IMPORTANT that Brawl keeps a move that works exactly like wavedashing works, even if it isnt wavedashing per-se, or if isnt done the sameway it is done in melee. What i mean is that we need an instant forward dash and back dash move (which is esentially what wding is), but maybe done in a different way than air dodging at a certain angle to the ground.

We all know wavedashing is there for the movement ability and for the mindgames, it doesnt matter if they make wavedashing simpler, because it is all about how you use it,REMEMBER, the important part is to keep the movement ability/flexibility that wavedashing gives us in the game, but wavedashing, as an air dodge into the ground, could leave for all i care.

I agree wholeheartedly. The important aspect of wavedashing is how it changes the spacing/movement game. If they replaced it with something that was functionally the same but easier to execute, it would be ideal. That way none of the game play value is lost, but it's more accessible to more casual players. The same holds true for most of the difficult advanced techniques. It would go a long way towards encouraging more casual players to play the game, encouraging more casual players to start playing competitively, and closing the widening rift of distaste and hostility that seems to be forming between the casual and competitive Smash crowds.

 

[NES n00b]

Actually, keeping the physics engine the same would be less work, thus, allowing more stuff to be in Brawl. So that is the -1 reason why wavedash won't be in Brawl. XD

Takalth, thanks for the logic stuff. Seriously, there is no reason for wavedashing to be removed.

Edit: You definitely need to play more Jordan. XD At least you are not a scrub about it like some people in this thread are.

 

[Professor Pro]

i would be extremely annoyed if there was no wavedashing it seperates good players from bad players and it should be in there really cos all wavedashing is is jumping nd air dodging so unless they take out air dodge then it should be able to be done

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

scrubs have tempers, eh? look in a mirror, you're about to explode.

Doubt it, you might have to get angry to dish out pwnage but not me. I stay calm cool and collected and im pointing out exactly why you're an immature brat. Your reasons for removing the wavedash are ridiculous.

1. To spite people
2. Because smash is about how you like it.

IMO, Smash is all about how I like it, and since I'm not too fond of WD, why not get rid of it?

Thank you for contuining to prove my point about you being an immature little child.

WAHHH!!! WAHHH!!! Smash is about what I want NOT U! Not the community! me! me! me!

 

[Pip]

WAHHH!!! WAHHH!!! Smash is about what I want NOT U! Not the community! me! me! me!

To be fair, given that the vast majority of smash players are casual players and that there is a widespread perception among casual players of wavedashing being a glitch (regardless of whether it is true or not), I wouldn't be surprised if what the "community" as a whole wanted was its removal (that is, if you took a poll of every person who considers them self a Smash player and asked them whether it should stay or go). Obviously it's hard to say on that one, though.

Edit: Which isn't to say that they would necessarily be right, just that what the community wants doesn't always coincide with what is best for the game.

 

[Rash]

Can someone please give me a clear-cut definition of what a scrub is, please?

 

[Ifalcoca]

That's great! Boycotting it won't make them change the game though. So you'll just be depriving yourself. Good luck with THAT.

my bro said boycotting never works it usually does more bad than good

 

[NES n00b]

Can someone please give me a clear-cut definition of what a scrub is, please?

Someone who has mental obstructions that keep him from trying his best to win. Examples include people who do not like the use of "glitches," play for "fun" and not to win, do not like to use "unfair" or "cheap" tactics (or their opponent using them), plays "honorably."

In other words, people who make their own rules about how a game should be played. Look up Sirlin.net (or whatever) for a better definition/example.

Also, it is the derogatory name for a n00b, but I do not think that the term is used that way anymore (at least on this blog).

 

[RDK]

WAHHH!!! WAHHH!!! Smash is about what I want NOT U! Not the community! me! me! me!

Lol, good job quoting half of the people on Smashboards, Dylan.

Which isn't to say that they would necessarily be right, just that what the community wants doesn't always coincide with what is best for the game.

Yes--thank God that the game's development isn't a democracy.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

(that is, if you took a poll of every person who considers them self a Smash player and asked them whether it should stay or go). Obviously it's hard to say on that one, though.

Hmm you raise a good point. But I consider a real.. smash player to be someone who plays the game every week for several hours with friends. And I think that the majority of people who do that are competitive gamers, or at least use the advanced techs.

No way to know, but lets face it, the professional smash scene is the real smash community. Like it or not, the pro smashers can beat you in smash. Items on, without wavedashing, hell maybe even without short hopping. They therefore know more about the game than the casual players and in my opinion based on this logic the professional smash community is generally right when it comes to the wavedash remaining in brawl.

Also, like ive stated before, if wavedashing is in, you dont have to use it. It doesnt affect lower levels of play.

Do you understand? * I adress this at the people who are going to argue with me*

Wavedashing does not make you magically good. At a noob level, rolling is much better as it provides you invincibility frames and some time to think, which you probably need.

Just knowing how to wavedash wont even ensure someone will beat a non wavedasher in online brawl, smash skill goes beyond one or two techniques.

However, at the pro level of smash, wavedashing has proved itself to be a technique that greatly expands the game and gives it so much more potential, hence the lingering tournament scene in melee.

 

[Rash]

I will honor your thoughts on the subject, Dylan.

However, I have my own ideas of what the "Smash Community" is. To me, it's pretty much everyone who plays and enjoys the game, whether it be for fun, or for competitive reasons. In fact, Smashboards is a good example of a strong Smash Community; it features many skilled players but also serves as a place for the more casual crowd to gain more information about the game and to learn more about how broad the Smash Brothers audience truly is.

As far as classifying Smash players, I try not to alienate anybody. In my opinion, creating a single definition for what a "real smash player" is can create a new class of players that's really not necessary. I think there are better ways to break it down.

My system for many competitive games, but very especially Smash Brothers, is like this:

-Newbie: Someone who's completely new to the game and only has a basic grasp of gameplay mechanics. They will hardly be able to beat Classic Mode on Normal.

-Casual: Someone who either doesn't own Smash but still loves to play it when friends bring it over, or someone who does own the game and plays it whenever he/she can but only gets the basic gist and probably doesn't know the advanced techniques.

-Regular: This person knows the game of Smash relatively well. They've completed most, if not all of the main game (meaning all events, stages unlocked, etc.). In a casual battle with friends they can hold their own, and can pull off timed moves effectively, though may not be masters of using advanced techniques in battle (in other words, they may still be able to wavedash across FD countless times). If anything, they don't dedicate themselves to keeping a strict schedule of play, but especially if no friends are around they can still jump right into a battle with a lvl 9 CPU and kick butt at any time.

-Highly Experienced or Semi-Pro: These players have done their research and have practiced. Some may choose not to play competitively, or may not have the opportunity. Others will jump on the competitive bandwagon at any moment, because they've put hard work into the game and feel that they have the skills to at least win some matches against other players in a tournament. You could probably take a list of advanced techniques, read one off, and this person would be able to do it. If you're fighting one of these players and not at this level yourself, take extreme caution.

Pro: The distinction made for top players. Guys who know the advanced techniques like the back of their hand, and have a good sense of how to flawlessly use mindgames and other strategies in their game. These guys have mastered certain characters and can easily impress at tourneys, where they are in most cases expected to win. Not only are they poplar within the smash community but they also serve as inspiration for up-and-coming players and are referenced in many discussions about advanced play.

And that's pretty much it. Just basic levels of class, nothing that makes anyone not a "real smash player" because honestly, I think anyone who can appreciate Smash as one of today's best franchises should be wholeheartedly welcomed among others who, though maybe more skilled, still embrace the game in the same way. Creating two sides to this particular equation, as I see it, doesn't work.

And I'll tell you this, I consider myself a Regular. My experience is deep enough that I can enjoy pretty much every aspect of Smash. I like to play the game however anyone else likes to play. If we're going for a straight-out no items match, fine. If we're going to turn off all items except max pokeballs, fine. (Yes, I enjoy doing that sometimes). If we're going to fight in the most chaotic way possible (meaning the whackiest items and the most hectic of stages), fine. It's all good to me.

Just wanted to stress this so, you know, no one would call me a scrub, now that I know what that generally means. It's not that I have insecurity issues about how I play the game or anything, but jeez, some of you people become so serious about Smash that I never know how the heck I'm supposed to express myself as a player. That's all I have to say.

Back to wavedash!

 

[180OP]

You know everytime this thread dies, someone unique comes here and repeats the baseline argument against wavedashing or adv techs and the whole thread blows up again. The last three pages have been bickering about the same thing over and over again.

To sum this thread: (if this doesnt work, nothing will):
1)Wavedash is most likely going to stay because it is not a glitch.
2)People who dont want wavedash or can't live without it can do whatever they like. Just wait for Brawl dammit and stop this circle of speculation.
3)established smash community, or the largest one which is smashboards is comprised of mostly people versed in adv techs but they also help noobs like me progress.
4) there are also packets of communities seperate from smashboards that are low level and that's cool too.
5)wavedashing is useful but you dont need it to win even at high levels of play!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that is pretty much it.
please no noobs come here about post something like "OH HEY adv techs are glitches and cheap and wavedash should be gone. i can beat everybody" and start this cycle all over again for another 6 pages.

if you have something unique to say then ok.

and Dylan you are beginning to post with an elitist attitude.

So here are the 2 options:
If you dont like wavedash, DONT USE IT.
If wavedash is not in brawl and you wanna cry and boycott, piss off.

 

[Rash]

Yep. Threads like these go in cycles. Everything that needs to be said gets said once, but repeats over and over until everyone gets sick and leaves. Then a few weeks later, another thread just like it pops up and the process repeats yet again.

That's why I used the potential downtime following Dylan's post as a placeholder for my own long post about stuff that people probably don't even care about.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

and Dylan you are beginning to post with an elitist attitude.

Beginning? I've always had an elitist attitude. And I stand by it. People who can beat you in smash have higher priority in opinions about the game than you. If you cant beat me in smash, I refuse to listen to your advice. If you can 3 stock me, Ill hang on your every word. Or just beat me consistently. Or just like... not suck.

I just don't see the opinions of unskilled players having any real meaning.

If the wavedash is not in brawl and you wanna cry and boycott then piss off

I -won't- play competitive Brawl smash without the wavedash, purely because my spacing game would fall apart without it. Spacing is too important and I really do abuse pulse walking, Its my favorite way to move.

I also -won't- cry about it. I'll just stick to competitive ssbm and ssb64, both of which will still be around no matter what and play brawl like I used to play ssb64 back in the day, and suck at it most likely. But Ill enjoy myself, check out the new final smashes...

and if I were to compete in a non wavedashing brawl, I would just only play captain falcon, he doesn't need to wavedash, its useful in spots but its really not what CF is about.

 

[Sushiman]

If the physics of the game functions correctly, wavedashing will be in brawl no matter what.

Wavedashing = Momentum of airdodging into the ground. If they take away momentum, they take away basically everything.

Wavedashing will be in Brawl. . . nuff said?

 

[Rash]

I just don't see the opinions of unskilled players having any real meaning.

I hope you only use that mentality for very specific cases, i.e. "competitive smash," which only the experienced have the right to know about and talk about seriously.

You're not asserting that the easy-going and casual Smash crowds don't have worthy opinions when it comes to the game's basic design (stages, characters, abilities), right?

 

[Pip]

Beginning? I've always had an elitist attitude. And I stand by it. People who can beat you in smash have higher priority in opinions about the game than you. If you cant beat me in smash, I refuse to listen to your advice. If you can 3 stock me, Ill hang on your every word. Or just beat me consistently. Or just like... not suck.

I just don't see the opinions of unskilled players having any real meaning.

I think this attitude of yours is based in the idea that the point of the game is to win, which is generally not the actual point of any given game, but rather a derivative goal. In theory, games like this are made as a form of entertainment. People play them for enjoyment and fun. For a lot of people, winning is more fun than losing, so they focus very hard on the goal of winning and gain the perception that winning is what the game is all about (rather than having fun). But I would have to disagree with that idea.

For most people, the purpose of a game is still entertainment. So, casual players who suck at the game may be very bad at meeting your goal of winning compared to yourself, but it does not mean they are not gaining just as much (or more) from the experience of playing as you are. They're just after something a little different. Does that mean that their opinions as to what would enhance their experience playing the game are any less valid than yours? I don't believe so. They're certainly paying just as much as you are for the same product.

Now naturally, someone who doesn't understand the game mechanics very well is less likely to have a good idea of which changes would be beneficial and which wouldn't, but it's still possible for them to have a good idea of what would make the game more enjoyable for them and for others who play it in similar ways. I guess my point is that you shouldn't discount someone's opinion on the game simply because they aren't as good as you at winning, because winning isn't the (whole) point of the game for every person who buys and plays it.

 

[psicicle]

Someone who has mental obstructions that keep him from trying his best to win. Examples include people who do not like the use of "glitches," play for "fun" and not to win, do not like to use "unfair" or "cheap" tactics (or their opponent using them), plays "honorably."

In other words, people who make their own rules about how a game should be played. Look up Sirlin.net (or whatever) for a better definition/example.

Also, it is the derogatory name for a n00b, but I do not think that the term is used that way anymore (at least on this blog).

I think I'm actually a little scrubbish; I don't wobble in friendlies because that isn't really fun. Unless of course the other guy was annoying me or something. And actually, I exclusively play friendlies, although I'd like to go to a tourney some time.

 

[Zabutur]

Doubt it, you might have to get angry to dish out pwnage but not me. I stay calm cool and collected and im pointing out exactly why you're an immature brat. Your reasons for removing the wavedash are ridiculous.

1. To spite people
2. Because smash is about how you like it.



Thank you for contuining to prove my point about you being an immature little child.
Me: what? the fact that I'm right and you're wrong about the scrubs? Face it: you're the type who says: "Smash must be played with wavedashing or it cannot be played" I mean, come on? you're stupid enough not to buy the game if a technique is not in it? lameness... nubbage... eh, screw that last part. I dunno about you, but I get competitive only aginst computers. that is all. other than that, it's called playing JUST... FOR... FUN. the only thing that'll keep me from buying the game is the removal of Dr. Mario AND Falco, since I main those two. then again, I'd probably just pick up Wario.

WAHHH!!! WAHHH!!! Smash is about what I want NOT U! Not the community! me! me! me!
Me: it's a pity you feel that way. do you need a hug?

I'm pretty sure I don't stand alone on removal of the wavedash.

that is, if I even were in that field...

my true stance on wavedash is neutral. I just think seeing you get all heated because I'm bashing your center technique (mine is spamming projectiles, so what?) is very amusing.
no, you don't stay calm and cool. (Tera actually told me about you (after I let her borrow a 5 for the movies) and the way you act) you tend to explode. bugging people, such as my sister, is fun. thanks to her stupidity, I can have some enjoyment as she turns green with envy as I am on the site and she is not.

anyhoowata...

allow me to iterate (I'm not even sure that's a word)
Zabutur: (jokingly) I say no more wavedashing in Brawl for no reason whatsoever
Dylan: no wavedashing, huh? it's scrubs like you who really get on my nerves. I could probably 5-stock you (8-stock you)
Zabutur: yeah. you probably could. so what? it's just a game.
Dylan: I just don't see the opinions of unskilled players having any real meaning.

iteration through, but there's commenting to be done.
keep in mind that the Wii itself was supposed to appeal to casual gamers.I'm prety sure Smash has it as well. probably not as much as the general system, but I'm 96 1/2% sure that the Smash Studio also considers the opinions of the non-pros.
Now the n00bs, such as those on nSider who want Tingle, Magikarp and impossibles like Goku and Ash Ketchum over much more popular characters such as Ridley or Dedede (that's just a guess/example; not sure on that) may not get their every wish. that is good.

Also, remember Mr. smash-is-not-what-anyone-else-wants-just-what-I-want:
Super Smash Bros., Super Smash Bros. Melee, and Super Smash Bros. Brawl, all have something in common with every single original Nintendo game out there:

they're just games.

the OBJECT of a game is to win, but the POINT of the game, is to keep you entertained AKA having fun.

in the eyes of the designers, it's also a money-making device, provided it's a good game.

that said and done, now I can just sit back and watch people bathe in my cunning logic.

oh, and the "They should remove it(him) to make room for other things" is not my opinion. I used as a n00bish reason people want to get rid of the cooler parts of the game, such as the character Dr. Mario.

 

[180OP]

I think this attitude of yours is based in the idea that the point of the game is to win, which is generally not the actual point of any given game, but rather a derivative goal. In theory, games like this are made as a form of entertainment. People play them for enjoyment and fun. For a lot of people, winning is more fun than losing, so they focus very hard on the goal of winning and gain the perception that winning is what the game is all about (rather than having fun). But I would have to disagree with that idea.

For most people, the purpose of a game is still entertainment. So, casual players who suck at the game may be very bad at meeting your goal of winning compared to yourself, but it does not mean they are not gaining just as much (or more) from the experience of playing as you are. They're just after something a little different. Does that mean that their opinions as to what would enhance their experience playing the game are any less valid than yours? I don't believe so. They're certainly paying just as much as you are for the same product.

Now naturally, someone who doesn't understand the game mechanics very well is less likely to have a good idea of which changes would be beneficial and which wouldn't, but it's still possible for them to have a good idea of what would make the game more enjoyable for them and for others who play it in similar ways. I guess my point is that you shouldn't discount someone's opinion on the game simply because they aren't as good as you at winning, because winning isn't the (whole) point of the game for every person who buys and plays it.

Cool post bro. I wanna follow it up.

It appears that Dylan for some reason believes being the best at Smash Bros. is the ultimate goal/purpose of life(it would become scary if he was to try to prove this scientifically in the next few posts).

Not everyone's lives revolve around Smash, actually there are very few in the world who are so obsessed.

EDIT: This was seriously my bad. It was petre who made the statement, not Dylan

Secondly, just because someone sucks at Smash doesn't mean that they can't have worthy opinions. They may not have the finger dexterity but in terms of mechanics, gameplay they could have a vast amount of knowledge on how things work, creativity, a keen eye for analysis etc. Humans are very good at making observations and analysis.

Lame people can make remarkable observations which even the expert eye doesn't see. You shouldn't think of people who are worse than you at this game as lesser human beings.

Pip, are you into psychology/human behavior like a college program or professionally? Very interesting things you said.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

You're not asserting that the easy-going and casual Smash crowds don't have worthy opinions when it comes to the game's basic design (stages, characters, abilities), right?

You hit the nail on the head. Its stuff like so called ''advanced'' techniques in which n00b opinions aren't needed, because they're biased by not being able to do it, or blaming their losses on the techniques and not a superior opponent. God I hate scrubs.

Scrubs, I hate you.

I think this attitude of yours is based in the idea that the point of the game is to win, which is generally not the actual point of any given game, but rather a derivative goal. In theory, games like this are made as a form of entertainment. People play them for enjoyment and fun. For a lot of people, winning is more fun than losing, so they focus very hard on the goal of winning and gain the perception that winning is what the game is all about (rather than having fun). But I would have to disagree with that idea.

You raise a good point. But when it comes to the advanced exploits of the game, which newbies dont even use, I dont see their opinions on the techniques they dont use meaning anything.

For most people, the purpose of a game is still entertainment. So, casual players who suck at the game may be very bad at meeting your goal of winning compared to yourself, but it does not mean they are not gaining just as much (or more) from the experience of playing as you are. They're just after something a little different. They're certainly paying just as much as you are for the same product.

haha I don't own a cube or melee so I didnt pay anything

Does that mean that their opinions as to what would enhance their experience playing the game are any less valid than yours? I don't believe so.

Oh but I do. They lack skill, skill comes with time. More time spent means you are more devoted to the game and have more passion for it. Therefore you know the game much better than some nub and your opinion matters way more than his.

It's video gaming, there's no point trying to be diplomatic. Newbs should either be trained or crushed and sent packing. I don't mind them talking about new chars , stages, new moves, new anything.

But if I see talk of ''broken moves'' ''imbalance'' and ''nerfing the broken characters'' thats when I get annoyed. Suprise suprise, the majority of people who have these opinions are also newbies who think smash revolves around a few moves.

Lets put it this way. you play falco, You can Shorthop. You can wavedash. You can double shine, you can SHL, you can RSHL, you can ledgehop double SHL, you can do every falco tech and you move as quickly as bombsoldier.

Doesn't. Mean. Shi t.

It all depends on when you use the moves and why, how you react to your opponent, how you change your playstyle to counter his, noticing patterns... smash is an intellectual game, it goes far beyond memorizing a few patterns, though pattenrs are a part of it, they are not the entire game.

But a newer player with less experience than me will probalby think that being able to do all the ''advanced'' falco techniques.. (COME ON, THEYRE FREAKIN EASY) constitutes a strong player, when really its just the empty shell of a player until he learns mindgames and intellectual smash playing.

I guess my point is that you shouldn't discount someone's opinion on the game simply because they aren't as good as you at winning, because winning isn't the (whole) point of the game for every person who buys and plays it.

Point taken, and I wont. Unless they start up with their ''melee is imbalanced'' bull**** again. ''tiers shouldnt exist'' bull****.

As long as the characters are different characters, there will be tiers. get over it.

 

[Zabutur]

hmmm... talk of imbalanced characters, broken moves?
it's true.

am I using that as an excuse to why I'm just a regular player?
1134 no.

do I care that this is an incrdulously unbalanced game? no.

do I car when people flame me because my opinions differ from theirs? yes. a lot. it is one of the few things I do care about in this life.

I know the advanced moves, it's just they haven't benefitted me at all, since i can never use them at the right times. that is why I'm still on neutral ground, AND, have the right to talk about them.

anyways, either way for the wavedash.

there's your sign...

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

In a different thread Dylan asked someone who wanted advice on how to get better at the game, "If they(his friends) suck at Smash, why are they your friends?"

Woah, woah woah. Prove it or lose it. I never said that. I'd flame you but it's just not worth it when you have to resort to making things up.

It appears that Dylan for some reason believes being the best at Smash Bros. is the ultimate goal/purpose of life

Yay for exageration. You're a bit thick.

That is a signal of obsession. Disown your friends cuz they suck at smash? A very very linear mindset.

Lol only 3 of my friends play smash, I have many. Remember, music is my life, not smash. As much time as I spend smashing I spend playing music. And I have a whole sepperate social group of friends

Face it: you're the type who says: "Smash must be played with wavedashing or it cannot be played"

Again, putting words in my mouth. Smash can be played without wavedashing, even at a competitive level, ie : Aniki. But if you want to become a competitive smasher chances are you can only benefit from the wavedash.. why shun something so useful? its like saying you wont use the b button for some made up reason.

hmmm... talk of imbalanced characters, broken moves?
it's true.

Sigh, you don't understand smash. Player skill matters more than character's tier spot.

Put it this way fox is top tier, has the shine, the waveshine, is broken, is theoretically impossible to beat if played by a robot that can shine 600 times a minutes or whatever.

You play your fox, vs Azen's bowser. Fox counters bowser!!! you should win right? No, you get 4 stocked. Why? because fox is a fast faller and you suck compared to azen. thats what makes this game balanced, the fact that despite some characters being weaker than others, with a higher level of skill you can defeat those under you with a low tier. Facing someone your own level or higher you should play high tier if you want to win, since at an equal skill level, higher tier has the advantage.

Also, take into mind, counterpicks, counterpick stages... etc. This game is pretty complicated, and you simply don't understand it. Then you turn around and call me obsessed like my life is smashbrothers. It isn't, Im just good at it, I as a human being can do many things and be good at many things, I know its a shock but its true.

do I care that this is an incrdulously unbalanced game? no.

It's not an imbalanced game. You're just trying to make me react, and I won't. You're wrong, that's all I have to say on the topic, I covered it up there ^^

do I car when people flame me because my opinions differ from theirs? yes. a lot. it is one of the few things I do care about in this life.

People flame you because the only reason you have presented for taking out the wavedash is to aggrivate other people. Which is just plain petty and juvenile. Stop trying to play the tragic martyr, it doesnt suit you chum.

I know the advanced moves, it's just they haven't benefitted me at all, since i can never use them at the right times. that is why I'm still on neutral ground, AND, have the right to talk about them.

You have the right to discuss them, you have the right to say anything you want. But if you say they should be removed I will argue with you with every fibre of my being and I think purely because you are not a player of significant skill that your understanding of why the advanced techs work in the game is tiny compared to those who have mastered them. With experience comes knowledge.

Also :

Secondly, just because someone sucks at Smash doesn't mean that they can't have worthy opinions. They may not have the finger dexterity but in terms of mechanics, gameplay they could have a vast amount of knowledge on how things work, creativity, a keen eye for analysis etc. Humans are very good at making observations and analysis.

You get proven wrong not by me, but by youtube.

I can beat ken
Omg this isai kid has a good pikachu but ness' throws do the most dmg in the game id beat him
lol ken isnt that great I could beat him he sucks.

Just look at youtube, then tell me non competitive smashers can make keen observations... unless you either watch pro smash vids all the time, or play smash at a high level, you DO NOT understand it at the same level that I do. Sorry.

keep in mind that the Wii itself was supposed to appeal to casual gamers

Yes, I know. And it sickens me, this decline of video gaming. when I was born and raised NES and SNES were what I had. And most NES games are impossibly difficult, zelda 2 anybody? Ghosts and goblins?

This new philosophy ''video games are for everyone'' ''forget controllers. You can all just wave your arms like idiots!'' kind of annoys me.

Difficult games kick ***, contra 3 rules, and you can all stop putting words in my mouth now, because I'd like some room for a cigarette, k thx.

 

[180OP]

And to further my point, this is from another thread.

Hey everyone, I just signed up today but I've been reading these boards for awhile, watched most of the combo videos and have been smashing for a fair few years. (just in case you're wondering who the random new poster is) Don't worry though I'm not just some gay nub, I've smashed with a few of the best players on these forums

So, down to the topic at hand. As Brawl's release date steadily approaches, I begin to grow more and more anxious.

Let me start by saying that I think Super Smash Brothers Melee, is PERFECT. It is an amazing game that I can play for 10 hours a day 1-3 times a week and never get bored of.

With that said these are my hopes for SSBB :

Same game speed. Same techs (maybe a few ones, but for the love of god dont remove what we had in melee)

Change The character movesets and weights and tractions(just like classic smash ----> melee)

In the basics, thats what i want. I dont give a **** about items, or stages. Im sure theyll do a great job on the stages and I cant even remember what the items in smash ARE anymore its been that long.

And of course the question on everyones mind : Will wavedashing be in Brawl?

I personally will boycott Brawl if it does anything to **** with an already perfect game. Note that I have no problem with new implications, moves, and the like. But removing things like airdodging and by association, wavedashing would cause me to break my copy in half and burn it.

So that's why im nervous. Im gonna be sweating bullets when Brawl comes out... I trust Nintendo, but remember that sales and $$$ profit are their motivation, not the smash community.

A final point I wish to raise is that SSBM Managed to be fun for pathetic noobs that play with items and the like, and totally and completly strategic and technical for those of us that play smash the way it should be played. It was a great balance, on one hand you could have fun playing the game with your friends without being serious, on the other hand you could be like me and train at the gme 10+ hours a week with your friends and have a killer time doing so.

What I'm worried about is that Brawl might focus a bit too much on ''fun for noobs''a (Which, really is what sells copies of the game) and not enough on making its highest potential something far beyond the capacity of your average smasher.

I can't believe I didn't read this before. Interesting. Sweating bullets? lol are you serious? Nervous?

Why are low skilled players gay? (i.e. gay noobs). SSBM was fun for pathetic noobs? Again reference to lower life forms just because they are not as skilled at a video game? And why does item play make you a noob? You know, you probably own these people at 8min 4 stock game, but this is only ONE method and most popular by way of competition but maybe if you took on a 'noob' in his settings, items and what not, maybe you are a noob in his domain. 8 min 4 stock is not the only way to play smash. There's a video of Aniki and other japanese players playing COIN Melee which is incredibly fun. They noobs? HELL NO.

Do you pray for wavedashing to be in brawl all night? Just kidding. But I'm sure you must have wrote into NOA.

Strange. Very strange. Smash Bros looks like a leash around your neck Dylan. Fight the force.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

lol I posted that about 5 months ago. I've changed my opinions since then. But oh wait, you read the first page of a 200 page thread and think you know me, congrats.

Smash Bros looks like a leash around your neck Dylan. Fight the force.

LOL wtf?! I just play the game and discuss it here. Both ssb64 and melee. How the heck does smash control my life? I practiced way more piano today than I did smash.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

...

Holy ****. This thread is eating itself alive.

Smooth Criminal

 

[NES n00b]

*Enters* What's going on in here? OMG, there is flames everywhere!!!1!11!

Anyways, let's get back on topic. Wavedashing does not change the tier list besides making Luigi and Ice Climbers higher. So if anyone argues that wavedash makes the game broken, they can consider it only makes two characters signifigantly better (for others it just helps them alot but their tier list would not change). I don't think anyone is arguing that but I am putting it out there anyways.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

It's turned into another ''Let's bash Dylan'' thread somehow. And as always I didn't start anything, and for once Im not flaming anybody.

You guys are pathetic though, you argue with me, I make some very valid points, then you come back with personal attacks on me as if you know me or something. You also have to resort to making up things and putting them in my mouth which is just sickening.

That or dig up the first post of the ''will brawl suck'' thread which was my first post here, and since which I have changed my opinions to be less stupid, and reflect moreso the attitude I have in this thread.

 

[psicicle]

oh sweet it's an army of strawmen and personal attacks.

 

[Zabutur]

Again, putting words in my mouth. Smash can be played without wavedashing, even at a competitive level, ie : Aniki. But if you want to become a competitive smasher chances are you can only benefit from the wavedash.. why shun something so useful? its like saying you wont use the b button for some made up reason.

I told you, I can just never use it at the right time. and, maybe I was putting words in your mouth but only to an extent. like someon above me said, 8min 4stk is not the only way to play. what if some of use like to play lightning Melee wiht items appearaing every second and a half? (I actually do play 4-stock often time, but sometimes I will stray and cracnk the damage ratio down)

Sigh, you don't understand smash. Player skill matters more than character's tier spot.

au contraire. I've read about the whole SheBang. I was kinda implying that the imbalace comes from the fact that the world's best Fox would whomp the world's best Mewtwo. eh? I'm fully aware that player skill > everything else. my friend can beat my Falco with his Roy, desptie Falco being #2 and Roy being #16 or so.

Also, take into mind, counterpicks, counterpick stages... etc. This game is pretty complicated, and you simply don't understand it. Then you turn around and call me obsessed like my life is smashbrothers. It isn't, Im just good at it, I as a human being can do many things and be good at many things, I know its a shock but its true.

considering how you play 10 hours a day for 1-3 days, yeah. I thought I was obsessed for playing 12 hours a WEEK.

It's not an imbalanced game. You're just trying to make me react, and I won't. You're wrong, that's all I have to say on the topic, I covered it up there ^^

now you're putting thoughts in my aims. Smash is imbalanced for the aforementioned reason of the world's best Fox and Mewtwo thing. some characters do better on some stages than others. this game IS imbalanced, but people, myself included, find ways to overcome that.

People flame you because the only reason you have presented for taking out the wavedash is to aggrivate other people. Which is just plain petty and juvenile. Stop trying to play the tragic martyr, it doesnt suit you chum.

I'm not playing the tragic martyr. it's mope like the jester in the king's court. anyways, you must not have read my post about how I said I actually have a neutral stance on the wavedash.

You have the right to discuss them, you have the right to say anything you want. But if you say they should be removed I will argue with you with every fibre of my being and I think purely because you are not a player of significant skill that your understanding of why the advanced techs work in the game is tiny compared to those who have mastered them. With experience comes knowledge.

sgnificant skill? meh, I'll leave you in you're own little perfect world on that one.

You get proven wrong not by me, but by youtube.

I can beat ken
Omg this isai kid has a good pikachu but ness' throws do the most dmg in the game id beat him
lol ken isnt that great I could beat him he sucks.

thjis wasn't my argument, but I'll bite:
I can beat Ken too. I clearly said in one of my posts that I could 99-stock Ken and Isai in a 2-on 1 match, even if they picked the stage and made me pick my worst character. yes, this is cold, hard fact, people. believe it and bathe in my glory.
Oh, did I forget to mention that I had to be using both their controllers as well as mine in order to successfully pull that off?

Just look at youtube, then tell me non competitive smashers can make keen observations... unless you either watch pro smash vids all the time, or play smash at a high level, you DO NOT understand it at the same level that I do. Sorry.

I watch pro smash vids, and I just think: "20 years down the road, none of this will matter, except for a few tourney winners who have made significant cash from the game. (yeah, if I were Ken making 50 grand from Melee, you bet that'd matter.

Yes, I know. And it sickens me, this decline of video gaming. when I was born and raised NES and SNES were what I had. And most NES games are impossibly difficult, zelda 2 anybody? Ghosts and goblins?

I like challenging games as well, but some (Mario series) make me want to throw the system. (since usually it was gameboy)

This new philosophy ''video games are for everyone'' ''forget controllers. You can all just wave your arms like idiots!'' kind of annoys me.

there are worse things. like Playstation 1/2/3/P.

Difficult games kick ***, contra 3 rules, and you can all stop putting words in my mouth now, because I'd like some room for a cigarette, k thx

smoking is bad for your health. prove me wrong.

EDIT: oh, and I thnk I said in this post, but it's worth rehashing:
I'm neutral opn the wavedash. if it's in, who knows? I might just pick it up.

people sometimes lie as not to show off their skills.

 

[180OP]

lol I posted that about 5 months ago. I've changed my opinions since then. But oh wait, you read the first page of a 200 page thread and think you know me, congrats.



LOL wtf?! I just play the game and discuss it here. Both ssb64 and melee. How the heck does smash control my life? I practiced way more piano today than I did smash.

First off, I want to say it was petre who made the statement. Not you Dylan. I apologize. I editted my post and made it bold. But can you understand why my memory would jog to think it was you? And you didn't think i was going to read 200 pages did you? **** that.

What people really write tells less than what they actually think. You can read between teh lines of their posts when they express emotions such as anger, anxiety, sorrow etc etc. Uses of metaphors, words with strong connotations etc blah blah and all that stuff tell alot about a person what they don't mention about themselves.

You are very aggressive towards people who are not as fortunate as you to have certain skills etc really by your posts they are worth nothing. And You acknowledge you have an elitist attitude.

Your opinions didn't change much since the beginning of this thread(except that you went from boycotting brawl to not so much of a boycott to only for fun play to only competitiveness with CF), so everything of that post seem very representitive and up-to-date. You've made it very clear.

I think we don't want to go any further in this. But I have to ask, do you still sweat bullets? tell me honestly. relax wavedash is in unless airdodge is out.

and I wanted to ask you about your piano thing, but I forgot.

 

[Metticus]

Yes, I know that this topic has been done to death, but I just wanted to bring it to some people's attention and, hopefully, get some fresh views and good points on it.

There has been a lot of fuss on whether or not some of the advanced techniques in Melee that probably weren't meant to be there are going to be available in Brawl. Some say that this would potentially kill the game, and that the whole reason there is such depth and strategy to Smash Bros. is because of the plethora of advanced techniques there are available.

What are some of your views on this? Would you welcome the changes, or would you be incredibly disappointed if wavedashing, etc. was taken out of the next installment?

Personally, I think the advanced techniques give the Smash Bros. community a whole world to explore in terms of character development; that's why people here are as good as they are: they take the time to develop their gameplay, and wavedashing, etc. gives you that chance. It separates the hard-workers--who really care about improving themselves--from the all-talk n00bs.

Talk away.

(too much too read in this whole thread so ill just reply to the first post)

well you know, the advance moves, whether they were ment to be there or not, it doesn't matter. when brawl comes out there will be a plethora of new content. and i bet a million dollars, it's own advance moves that we would have to discover, but Im sure would be well worth it. Time are changing, gotta go with the flow.

However, I'm guessing that brawl will pretty much have most of the same codeing from melee due to the laziness that video game programmers have.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

@Dylan: Dude,you need to come to OC3.

Just a thought.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

First off, I want to say it was petre who made the statement. Not you Dylan. I apologize. I editted my post and made it bold. But can you understand why my memory would jog to think it was you? And you didn't think i was going to read 200 pages did you? **** that.

lol like 180 of those pages are just spam. we mostly talk about snes games. join the fun

THANK YOU for appologising, I really respect you for that.

What people really write tells less than what they actually think. You can read between teh lines of their posts when they express emotions such as anger, anxiety, sorrow etc etc. Uses of metaphors, words with strong connotations etc blah blah and all that stuff tell alot about a person what they don't mention about themselves.

Meh I dont think you can read too much into one's personal pysche on a video game forum. Dylan_Tnga is not me, Dylan Burnett. Dylan_Tnga is who I am when I talk smash, and trust me as serious as I sound, Im just messing with you guys like.. half the time.

You are very aggressive towards people who are not as fortunate as you to have certain skills

bah, fortunate. Anyone with a cube, and melee can learn the ''advanced'' techniques in less than a weeks time. Its the application that takes practice. I dont even own a cube haha I learned everything in game at my friends house, no training mode for me.

And You acknowledge you have an elitist attitude.

I DO have an elitist attitude, when it comes to talk of REMOVING things that are perfectly fine in melee. Thing is, look at the arguments of the anti wders it's mostly ''I hope WD is gone so that I can laugh at people's frustration, just to spite them'' Once again, that's petty and a terrible argument.

As for the characters, stage design, whatever anyone can have an opinion, notice I only argue with people who want to remove things for no reason other than the word ''broken'' which is so overused now you'd think that the game wouldnt even start up because fox has a reflector. jeez.

Your opinions didn't change much since the beginning of this thread(except that you went from boycotting brawl to not so much of a boycott to only for fun play to only competitiveness with CF), so everything of that post seem very representitive and up-to-date. You've made it very clear.

You're right. But the first page of ''will brawl suck'' is just stupidity on my part. I admitted it and its the only reason I made friends here, otherwise I wouldn't have been given the time of day. I had a lot of fights, and I changed my stupid opinos and refined them towards what I believe in today

I think we don't want to go any further in this. But I have to ask, do you still sweat bullets? tell me honestly. relax wavedash is in unless airdodge is out.

and I wanted to ask you about your piano thing, but I forgot.

haha nah I don't even really care. If there's no wding in brawl, I'll play competitive melee and ssb64. As long as those 2 games exist I'm pretty much okay

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=DylanKeywizRad

That's all my piano vids and some videos of me playing smash with my crew.

@Dylan: Dude,you need to come to OC3.

Just a thought.

If I had the money, I wouldn't even consider not flying down there for the experience, and id bring like a laptop and my digi cam to record as much as possible, not just matches but all the fun stuff associated with smash.

the best part of smash for me, is the laughs. Smash is too funny of a game with a group of people it just brings smiles and laughter all around