Advanced Techniques in Brawl

[Pip]

Pip, are you into psychology/human behavior like a college program or professionally? Very interesting things you said.

Nah, pretty much every point I make in threads like these is just based on intuition, logic, common sense, and my own personal experience. No formal training, I'm afraid. One of my good friends from college was a philosophy major, though, and I was one of the few people with enough patience to engage him in the several hours long debates that he liked to have. I credit those experiences as part of why I'm generally able to form coherent arguments.

You raise a good point. But when it comes to the advanced exploits of the game, which newbies dont even use, I dont see their opinions on the techniques they dont use meaning anything.

I feel that it's possible for someone to have a firm understanding of the principles behind a certain aspect of the game play without being someone who can effectively employ those principles in a practical sense. I, for one, am someone who doesn't wavedash, but I feel that I have a firm understanding of the applications and implications of the technique from extensive viewings of professional matches.

The reason I don't wavedash is simply because I wasn't fully aware of what wavedashing meant until recently, and I haven't had the time (been busy) to train myself do be able to do it at will without thinking about it yet. Until about a month ago, I was pretty much completely disconnected from the professional smash community, and have never even played against someone who wavedashed. But even without having participated in the professional smash scene, I think I've gained an understanding of what wavedashing means for the game on at least an academic level.

Maybe you think my lack of practical experience on the matter disqualifies me from having anything worthwhile to contribute on a discussion about wavedashing, but I would hope that I've proven with my posts throughout this thread that such isn't always the case.

Oh but I do. They lack skill, skill comes with time. More time spent means you are more devoted to the game and have more passion for it. Therefore you know the game much better than some nub and your opinion matters way more than his.

I will again point out my own case as an example against this idea. I've been playing Smash since SSB64, have a great deal of passion for Melee, and further have Great Expectations (get it? ) for Brawl. I have spent more than my fair share of time playing this game, but because of the insulated nature of my Smash environment, I haven't been exposed to advanced techniques as much and my growth as a player has been stunted. I'd probably lose to you pretty readily in a match for this reason. But, just as I am someone who has less familiarity with the game in the context of high-level play than you, I probably have a much greater familiarity with it than you in the context of mid-level play. Now given that the Smash series is so successful because it appeals to players of all levels of skill and dedication (and that this is a balance the developers will be seeking to maintain), don't you think that someone like me has something to contribute that you don't to a discussion about game play? A better understanding of a different (and perhaps more populous) arena of play that needs representation, as it were, because it's home to one of many demographics that the developers will necessarily be seeking to cater to.

Point taken, and I wont. Unless they start up with their ''melee is imbalanced'' bull**** again. ''tiers shouldnt exist'' bull****.

As long as the characters are different characters, there will be tiers. get over it.

Well, the idea that there would be no tiers while simultaneously having a diverse (in terms of game play) cast of characters represents an ideal situation. You are right, however, that it is unfortunately an ideal that for practical purposes is impossible to achieve.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Gah, I can't fight your method of calmly disagreeing with me. I'm being 2 stocked.

Well I had some good times in this thread today regardless, im outta here.

 

[RDK]

...garr...too much conversation to go over...

I DO have an elitist attitude, when it comes to talk of REMOVING things that are perfectly fine in melee. Thing is, look at the arguments of the anti wders it's mostly ''I hope WD is gone so that I can laugh at people's frustration, just to spite them'' Once again, that's petty and a terrible argument.

As for the characters, stage design, whatever anyone can have an opinion, notice I only argue with people who want to remove things for no reason other than the word ''broken'' which is so overused now you'd think that the game wouldnt even start up because fox has a reflector. jeez.

At least he admits it! He made a very good point. This is an example for all you cowardly fools out there who are too scared to get flamed for saying something like this.

If I had the money, I wouldn't even consider not flying down there for the experience, and id bring like a laptop and my digi cam to record as much as possible, not just matches but all the fun stuff associated with smash.

the best part of smash for me, is the laughs. Smash is too funny of a game with a group of people it just brings smiles and laughter all around

Which makes all this fighting seem pretty ********.

You raise a good point. But when it comes to the advanced exploits of the game, which newbies dont even use, I dont see their opinions on the techniques they dont use meaning anything.

Again--thank God the game's development isn't a forum democracy.

Well, the idea that there would be no tiers while simultaneously having a diverse (in terms of game play) cast of characters represents an ideal situation. You are right, however, that it is unfortunately an ideal that for practical purposes is impossible to achieve.

Having a diverse set of characters all on the same "tier" would be an impossible situation for several reasons. Plus, n00bish whiners would still find stuff to ***** about.

Gah, I can't fight your method of calmly disagreeing with me. I'm being 2 stocked.

Lol, he has a way of calming people down. Pip, where were you when this thread was started?

 

[Takalth]

Nah, pretty much every point I make in threads like these is just based on intuition, logic, common sense, and my own personal experience. No formal training, I'm afraid. One of my good friends from college was a philosophy major, though, and I was one of the few people with enough patience to engage him in the several hours long debates that he liked to have. I credit those experiences as part of why I'm generally able to form coherent arguments.

Somebody who takes a little time to think deeper into what they do understands people 100 times better than somebody who takes a psychology class. Great post earlier, BTW, pip.

Gah, I can't fight your method of calmly disagreeing with me. I'm being 2 stocked.

Well I had some good times in this thread today regardless, im outta here.

There's a valuable lesson there. I agree with you 95% of the time, but tossing in comments like "I hate scrubs" and angry forceful words actually make your argument lose power. The angry kid avatar also contributes (yes, I know he's a character from some anime).

Fact is, you have a lot of good stuff in your posts, but the angry facade (whether or not you're angry, you certainly give the impression of it) masks it all out, so people respond to that.

 

[monty06]

well personally yeah i would miss having the ability to wavedash in brawl if its not in the game but i wont get all worked up about it.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

There's a valuable lesson there. I agree with you 95% of the time, but tossing in comments like "I hate scrubs" and angry forceful words actually make your argument lose power. The angry kid avatar also contributes (yes, I know he's a character from some anime).

Kid? Ssj3 goku is a fully grown Aryan adult.

Yeah! he's almost as powerful as captain falcon.

Fact is, you have a lot of good stuff in your posts, but the angry facade (whether or not you're angry, you certainly give the impression of it) masks it all out, so people respond to that.

Well I do hate scrubs, and they can go die. I like to crush em with my obviously superior intellect but at the same time I like to call em scrubs, its more fun that way.

 

[RDK]

Yeah! he's almost as powerful as captain falcon.

Well I do hate scrubs, and they can go die. I like to crush em with my obviously superior intellect but at the same time I like to call em scrubs, its more fun that way.

LOL, Dylan, you crack me up with every post you write. But I think Talkath has a point--if you didn't have so much humor in everything you say, you probably would have been considered for a higher position in the forums by now. Everything you say/argue is relevant and mostly right.

 

[The Bino]

Found this post by McFox and by far it is a great thing he has said so i think since that this is the Wavedashing in Brawl thread i should repost it here lol

I honestly don't understand why people are so ****ing hung up on whether wavedashing or waveshining or ETCETERA is back. Who ****ing cares?? This is a NEW game, if EVERYTHING from the old game returned, I'd be pretty pissed off. I'm glad they're changing it up. If you want to wavedash, waveshine, and ETCETERA, then play Melee.

Again this was written by McFox and it is a great post, i would make this my sig, but eh, my sig is already hot

 

[RDK]

I honestly don't understand why people are so ****ing hung up on whether wavedashing or waveshining or ETCETERA is back. Who ****ing cares?? This is a NEW game, if EVERYTHING from the old game returned, I'd be pretty pissed off. I'm glad they're changing it up. If you want to wavedash, waveshine, and ETCETERA, then play Melee.

Well, it looks like McFox owned the argument without even entering the thread. How does he do it?

'Nuff said.

 

[180OP]

Kid? Ssj3 goku is a fully grown Aryan adult.

Yeah! he's almost as powerful as captain falcon.



Well I do hate scrubs, and they can go die. I like to crush em with my obviously superior intellect but at the same time I like to call em scrubs, its more fun that way.

Hey scrubs are cool!

Btw SSJ3 GOKU would rip captain falcon into 1000 pieces then eat him for breakfast.

I wonder how they would make goku in a fighting environment like Smash but at the same time I don't want him there.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Btw SSJ3 GOKU would rip captain falcon into 1000 pieces then eat him for breakfast.

Half a galaxy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw

haha yeah I know how way overpowered goku is, but still. Captain falcon is way more manly, therefore he wins. *Huep!* *Yehhhs!*

I honestly don't understand why people are so ****ing hung up on whether wavedashing or waveshining or ETCETERA is back. Who ****ing cares?? This is a NEW game, if EVERYTHING from the old game returned, I'd be pretty pissed off. I'm glad they're changing it up. If you want to wavedash, waveshine, and ETCETERA, then play Melee.

Well, melee was a new game, it still had Z/L cancelling, fastfalling, basically everything save a few minor details (Dropping from platforms out of shield, due to spot dodge)

If melee had just plain removed the techniques from ssb64, it would have sucked. Melee is based on ssb64, Brawl should be based on melee.

nothing should be removed, not L cancelling, not SHFFLING, and especially not wavedashing. Only additions should be made, what the heck REASON is there to remove wding anyway?

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

sorry for double post

 

[180OP]

Captain Falcon had an anime?! I'm a noob. Yo aight you win. That was pretty sick. I love japanese sound affects/voice overs. I want the Japanese Brawl!

 

[The Bino]

Im sure you will be able to switch the language in Brawl as u are in Melee

 

[RDK]

The Japanese language switch in Melee was cool--if you memorized the confusing menus.

Plus, Jigglypuff and Bowser's names were different...Purin and Koopa, respectively.

 

[Giggidax]

wavedashing is part of the games engine. its the outcome of airdodging into the ground. if u want wave dashing out, then wat do u prefer instead? do u want ur character to completely stop when u airdodge into the ground? that would like glitchy as heck, even tho wavedashing looks quite glitched as well. i guess the makers decided that u shouldnt lose momentum when u airdodge into the ground, therefore u slide on the ground with the momentum of the airdodge.

lol yea thats all. but all in all it doesnt matter if wavedashing is still in, ill still own all u guys buahaah!! (just kidding....)

i dont know wats up with the whole crawling deal tho, it looks stupid

 

[RDK]

i dont know wats up with the whole crawling deal tho, it looks stupid

Rightly so. If wavedashing is still in, anyone who takes the time to actually crawl is going to get collectively stomped by everyone else playing.

I mean come on--crawling?

 

[Pip]

Lol, he has a way of calming people down.

I'm glad I'm having a positive impact.

Pip, where were you when this thread was started?

Me? Well I recently started to wonder what new information was available about Brawl. My subsequent travels through the internet introduced me to the Smash community at large, and eventually led me here, among other places. At the time that this thread was started I was just beginning to start posting on these forums, and didn't find this thread until later. So yeah, I came a little late to the party.

Somebody who takes a little time to think deeper into what they do understands people 100 times better than somebody who takes a psychology class. Great post earlier, BTW, pip.

Why thank you, it means a lot to know that a relative noob like myself can make worthwhile contributions to the SWF.

Half a galaxy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw

LOL, that was both absurd and intensely amusing.

 

[The Bino]

Well when you see Snake crawling it clearly makes sense, being how it is in every single one of his games, but everyone else crawling, i know for a fact that they are/have figured out a way to make it work somehow, i mean Sakurai isn't stupid he knows what he's doing

 

[Giggidax]

Half a galaxy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw

O_O WOW... if only falcon had that much power in melee, he would be so broken -___-;;


edit: im not saying im fully hating the crawling idea, ill try it out and play brawl no matter wat. but it doesnt seem like it has any usefulness at all. unless u want to get owned while being crouched. im definitely looking forward to seeing why sakurai put crawling into the game

 

[Pip]

I think the usefulness of crawling will depend on what you can do out of it and what level skill the players are at. It might end up being a good way to approach someone who's projectile spamming (depending on the projectile) in a lower skill game. But yeah, I also have a hard time imagining how it would be used in high end play.

 

[Wegus]

Hi guys, me again... Sorry for the lack of posts, been on the busy side.

Firstly i'd really like to apologise to everybody on the forum who thought i was having a go at them. Honestly i wasn't, tho if you read all the post autopsies everyone performed where they quoted out the worst parts and twisted them a bit, then it does look like i have a major thing against people who use said techinques. If you actually read them with a open mind then you'll find that i did try to use some careful wording so as not to offend anyone. So, let me make it clear: I DONT HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST WAVE-DASHERS. I just don't like to use them for MY OWN reasons.

I thought i'd just share an opposing view on the subject just to cause a stir, didn't quite mean for it to get so out of hand. But trust me, i come in with a white flag.

Any way, back to the topic:
Just something i was talking about with a mate the other day tho. Anyone remember the awesome pc game that was Counter-Strike? "Bunny hopping". This is where you jump and strafe at the same time; do this repeatedly and you start picking up speed - a lot faster than someone running in a straight line, even with the secondary weapons. Now my point is that this is very similar to the glitches in SSM. Initially you had your group that cried "GLITCH! BAN THE CHEATERS" and then you had the group that cried "NO! IT'S PART OF THE GAME, USE IT OR SHUT UP!". (ironically i was part of the second group when SSM first came out)

There were the same arguments:
- Bunny hopping gave a whole new dimension to the game. New tactics were formed. Now, huge maps that required a gruelling foot slog to even get to the enemy could now be crossed like an energiser bunny on red bull. Targets were much harder to hit. Basically, it added a different depth to the game.

The developers saw it fit to remove this bit of glitch code the following CS patch.

Smash bros on the other hand, is a console game. No internet patches. The glitches were left alone and eventually, the glitches defined the game to a lot of the players. It's pretty much become accepted as part of the game.

Now nintendo is one of those companies who are smart (or care) enough to listen to the fans. What the fans want, the fans get. I'm sure they've done their research and they know that a huge section of the fans want to maintain these glitches in Brawl.

I mean, it'd be easy to get rid of wavedashing even if they kept the same physics engine. A short condition code would be able to fix it right up. (I dunno, "perform air dodge only after x amount of time in the air" or some other pseudo code).. But, they'ed be dissapointing a lot of the fans. Hell i'd be pissed if they removed my favourite character Mr Saturn. (Trust me, killing someone with him is pure gold, absolute 24crt gold)

So don't worry guys, i'm sure they'll stay. People who don't like them won't use them, people who like them will use them, and most of the casual gamers who don't even know about them will be none for worse.

 

[Impmacaque]

I think the usefulness of crawling will depend on what you can do out of it and what level skill the players are at. It might end up being a good way to approach someone who's projectile spamming (depending on the projectile) in a lower skill game. But yeah, I also have a hard time imagining how it would be used in high end play.

I want to see more of the crawling mechanic before I pass judgement... What if you could grab from the crawl position, or if attacking from the crawl position gave you a few invincibility frames like a recovery does?

I don't know - depending on how quick it takes to enter the crawling stance and to exit it, mixing it into a close combat routine could be nice for mind games... I'm guessing you also evade high and mid strikes from that position; so someone, somewhere will find a use for it

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Hi guys, me again... Sorry for the lack of posts, been on the busy side.

Firstly i'd really like to apologise to everybody on the forum who thought i was having a go at them. Honestly i wasn't, tho if you read all the post autopsies everyone performed where they quoted out the worst parts and twisted them a bit, then it does look like i have a major thing against people who use said techinques. If you actually read them with a open mind then you'll find that i did try to use some careful wording so as not to offend anyone. So, let me make it clear: I DONT HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST WAVE-DASHERS. I just don't like to use them for MY OWN reasons.

I thought i'd just share an opposing view on the subject just to cause a stir, didn't quite mean for it to get so out of hand. But trust me, i come in with a white flag.

Any way, back to the topic:
Just something i was talking about with a mate the other day tho. Anyone remember the awesome pc game that was Counter-Strike? "Bunny hopping". This is where you jump and strafe at the same time; do this repeatedly and you start picking up speed - a lot faster than someone running in a straight line, even with the secondary weapons. Now my point is that this is very similar to the glitches in SSM. Initially you had your group that cried "GLITCH! BAN THE CHEATERS" and then you had the group that cried "NO! IT'S PART OF THE GAME, USE IT OR SHUT UP!". (ironically i was part of the second group when SSM first came out)

There were the same arguments:
- Bunny hopping gave a whole new dimension to the game. New tactics were formed. Now, huge maps that required a gruelling foot slog to even get to the enemy could now be crossed like an energiser bunny on red bull. Targets were much harder to hit. Basically, it added a different depth to the game.

The developers saw it fit to remove this bit of glitch code the following CS patch.

Smash bros on the other hand, is a console game. No internet patches. The glitches were left alone and eventually, the glitches defined the game to a lot of the players. It's pretty much become accepted as part of the game.

Now nintendo is one of those companies who are smart (or care) enough to listen to the fans. What the fans want, the fans get. I'm sure they've done their research and they know that a huge section of the fans want to maintain these glitches in Brawl.

I mean, it'd be easy to get rid of wavedashing even if they kept the same physics engine. A short condition code would be able to fix it right up. (I dunno, "perform air dodge only after x amount of time in the air" or some other pseudo code).. But, they'ed be dissapointing a lot of the fans. Hell i'd be pissed if they removed my favourite character Mr Saturn. (Trust me, killing someone with him is pure gold, absolute 24crt gold)

So don't worry guys, i'm sure they'll stay. People who don't like them won't use them, people who like them will use them, and most of the casual gamers who don't even know about them will be none for worse.

You again? I thought we Smash "elitists" pounded this argument into a worthless pulp.

Ah, well.

Rather than go on long tangents and point out all of the inconsistencies made in this post versus the others, I'm just gonna go ahead and say this:

Wavedashing is part of the game and is universally accepted by a broad community of video game players. Nothing you can do or say will change our minds about the matter. Deal with it.

There. 'Nuff said. We all appreciate you coming into this conversation with your white flags waving and all, but definitely reviving an old argument is akin to kicking a dead horse.


Smooth Criminal (a.k.a. The Smash Elitist)

P.S. Interesting tidbit about CS, by the way.

 

[Sync99]

My guess is that crawling is a way to move while sustaining a crouch cancel, and that there is little to no lag time when getting up from a crawl. I don't think all characters will be able to do this (I can't see like, PEACH or ZELDA crawling), so it'll probably be something like Peach's floating. Idk if they announced that crawling is universal among all characters--but either way I think it would be cooler if only a few could do it.

 

[Takalth]

Crawling is easy enough to make useful. Just implement wavecrawling. j/k

More seriously, besides the sustained crouch cancel, the ways crawling could be useful would be:

1. Allow useful and powerful moves to be done from a crawl that could not be done otherwise.

2. Allow you to enter and exit a crawl quickly as part of other techniques.

In advanced play, it wouldn't be a matter of crawling long distances. I would be a different situation you could set yourself in (typically for a very short period of time) that allows more options.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Hey Wegus, you like the term glitch a lot don't ya?

Why don't you prove WDing is a glitch? I can prove it isn't.

 

[Wegus]

Ok first off, Smooth Criminal needs to read posts before he speaks. Dead horse? This is an entirely new horse... Maybe i should just post shorter posts...

Anyway, Dylan, IMHO i reckon it's a glitch. The reason why i say this is that it negates a certain number of animation frames which would happen under normal circumstances. The only other way you can pull off negating landing animation frames without actually performing a wavedash is if you're at the same level as a platform and you airdodge onto it. (which IIRC is the way a lot of people found out about it in the first place). The word glitch seems to be the most convenient term... beats the heck outta "abnormal computational process error".

So yeah, "glitch" cos it negates "normal" animation frames. What's your take on it?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Hi guys, me again... Sorry for the lack of posts, been on the busy side.

Firstly i'd really like to apologise to everybody on the forum who thought i was having a go at them. Honestly i wasn't, tho if you read all the post autopsies everyone performed where they quoted out the worst parts and twisted them a bit, then it does look like i have a major thing against people who use said techinques. If you actually read them with a open mind then you'll find that i did try to use some careful wording so as not to offend anyone. So, let me make it clear: I DONT HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST WAVE-DASHERS. I just don't like to use them for MY OWN reasons.

I thought i'd just share an opposing view on the subject just to cause a stir, didn't quite mean for it to get so out of hand. But trust me, i come in with a white flag.

Any way, back to the topic:
Just something i was talking about with a mate the other day tho. Anyone remember the awesome pc game that was Counter-Strike? "Bunny hopping". This is where you jump and strafe at the same time; do this repeatedly and you start picking up speed - a lot faster than someone running in a straight line, even with the secondary weapons. Now my point is that this is very similar to the glitches in SSM. Initially you had your group that cried "GLITCH! BAN THE CHEATERS" and then you had the group that cried "NO! IT'S PART OF THE GAME, USE IT OR SHUT UP!". (ironically i was part of the second group when SSM first came out)

There were the same arguments:
- Bunny hopping gave a whole new dimension to the game. New tactics were formed. Now, huge maps that required a gruelling foot slog to even get to the enemy could now be crossed like an energiser bunny on red bull. Targets were much harder to hit. Basically, it added a different depth to the game.

The developers saw it fit to remove this bit of glitch code the following CS patch.

Smash bros on the other hand, is a console game. No internet patches. The glitches were left alone and eventually, the glitches defined the game to a lot of the players. It's pretty much become accepted as part of the game.

Now nintendo is one of those companies who are smart (or care) enough to listen to the fans. What the fans want, the fans get. I'm sure they've done their research and they know that a huge section of the fans want to maintain these glitches in Brawl.

I mean, it'd be easy to get rid of wavedashing even if they kept the same physics engine. A short condition code would be able to fix it right up. (I dunno, "perform air dodge only after x amount of time in the air" or some other pseudo code).. But, they'ed be dissapointing a lot of the fans. Hell i'd be pissed if they removed my favourite character Mr Saturn. (Trust me, killing someone with him is pure gold, absolute 24crt gold)

So don't worry guys, i'm sure they'll stay. People who don't like them won't use them, people who like them will use them, and most of the casual gamers who don't even know about them will be none for worse.

Hm. I think you should read what I just underlined, Wegus. I'm not trying to start **** or anything, but...it seems like you're sparking controversy. Again. Like everybody keeps telling you, choose your words wisely and be tact.

Ok first off, Smooth Criminal needs to read posts before he speaks. Dead horse? This is an entirely new horse... Maybe i should just post shorter posts...

You mean "type," right? Nobody speaks on the Internet unless there's a microphone involved.

Smooth Criminal

 

[180OP]

Ok first off, Smooth Criminal needs to read posts before he speaks. Dead horse? This is an entirely new horse... Maybe i should just post shorter posts...

Anyway, Dylan, IMHO i reckon it's a glitch. The reason why i say this is that it negates a certain number of animation frames which would happen under normal circumstances. The only other way you can pull off negating landing animation frames without actually performing a wavedash is if you're at the same level as a platform and you airdodge onto it. (which IIRC is the way a lot of people found out about it in the first place). The word glitch seems to be the most convenient term... beats the heck outta "abnormal computational process error".

So yeah, "glitch" cos it negates "normal" animation frames. What's your take on it?

Ok. So the basis of your argument is, if it negates "normal" animation frames, therefore it is a glitch.

Ok, what if I did a full jump but before I let the full jump complete I jumped again, negating the rest of the animation of the first jump and maybe I did an attack which negated the rest of the second jump?

Is that a glitch?

 

[Wegus]

Smooth c'mon, you seriously need to chill. It seems you're the one trying to stir me and i'm not going to go to that level. Will someone please tell this guy that i do accept that you lot do favour wave-dashing? 'Cause i don't think he has the capacity to accept that there are players out there that don't. For each his own, right? For the gramatical correction, however, i am going to take offense to because it was an obvious metaphorical use of the word "speak".

Anyway, for 1800P:
I'd say that my definition of glitch doesn't include performing double jump or an air attack mid-jump. I guess another way to explain it is that it's a glitch because it negates animation that, under normal circumstances, can't be negated. i.e. you can't perfom an attack/evasion/even move until the full landing animation is completed.

But, if someone can suggest a less politically incorrect term instead of glitch then i'll happily take it up. Just make sure it's not hard to type. :wink:

 

[The Bino]

How about MISHAP, being how it wasn't intended, it was an accident, but the testers had found it and brought it to their attention so i guess the producers didn't feel it was that big of a deal, so i would say it was a MISHAP

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

How about MISHAP, being how it wasn't intended, it was an accident, but the testers had found it and brought it to their attention so i guess the producers didn't feel it was that big of a deal, so i would say it was a MISHAP

Bingo. Z cancelling was a mishap too, but that one they didnt know about (I dont think) until after ssb64 came out.

With melee the developers were well aware of wavelanding / wavedashing or ''land fall special'' BEFORE it was released.

Also, in PAL version marth shiek and some other character are nerfed, but wavedashing is still there. I wonder why?

Wavedashing is a consequence of the physics engine, if it was a glitch it couldn't be so smoothly intergrated into gameplay as a technique and it would most likely cause game errors to occur.

Wegus, you hide yourself behind nice words and pleasent phrases, but you and me both know you only come back here to stir the **** pot. I have a strong feeling you're a troll, btw.

Face it, behind the nice words you're implying some REALLY scrub ****, just let it go and stop being a scrub.

 

[180OP]

Ok cool Wegus. I'm going approach this a bit different now.

You can do a lot of things before your landing animation is complete. You can attack RIGHT before you hit the ground. You know you do actually LAND while doing a waveland but you land with momentum(from the dodge) and whatever traction was set by the devs results in a waveland.

A lot of things you can do negate animations in melee, but you pick and chose which is a glitch and which is not, even though your criteria meets many many standard things.

ALSO you can do alot as your jumping is beginning(which is how you do the wavedash).

For arguments sake let us agree that it is a glitch, but glitches are more seen as things that are out of the ordinary. Strange codes. Like a turnip frozen in air. Or Jigglypuff stuck above the screen. or phantom hits.

Do you think the wavedash or waveland break the gameplay or enhance it? Does it open new, more indepth strategies having to do with mindgames, attack sequences, combo chasing etc?

Take a look at this video and tell if Phanna (the samus) sykes you out.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bJY3GsoON4k

Then tell me your answer to the question above.

If it does enhance gameplay and all that, why not use it?

 

[monty06]

ive seen that vid phanna is good and all the waveland stuff enhances the gamelay he uses it very well.

 

[psicicle]

I'm wondering, why couldn't the devs just treat the ground like it was the ceiling or a wall when it comes to airdodges? In those cases, you just sort of slid from the momentum of the airdodge, but you could tell you were still airdodging- you were in the animation and had invincibility frames. It was a lot slower, and if it were done on the ground, you would not be in "standing mode".

Just throwing out a simple way for WDing to be taken out.

 

[Linari Sabre]

man oh man why ppl say that they would stop playing if there was no WDing in a game
im... so confused I actually thought many were fans no matter wht is there and wht isnt there in Smash

 

[Pip]

@Dylan and Smooth Criminal
I think that as long as Wegus is trying to be polite about bringing this topic up you should give him the benefit of the doubt. You complain that he's just here to stir up trouble, but it seems to me that he has some arguments for his viewpoint that he feels still haven't been made, and there really isn't a more appropriate thread than this one to bring those up in.


@Wegus
You say that if wavedashing is in Brawl then it's because Nintendo is a smart company and wants to appease their fans. I would argue that you should also consider that since Nintendo is a smart company they wouldn't leave in a feature that they felt was detrimental to the gameplay. To do such a thing seems to me to be wholly against the Nintendo way. So I'd say that wavedashing's presence in Brawl would (and probably will) very strongly state that the developers want it to be part of their game and have balanced all aspects of the game while keeping that in mind.

 

[psicicle]

I'm not sure that the balance that the developers give brawl will last much longer than maybe the first month- or maybe a year or so. I can't really predict how long it will take, but certain important combos that the developers will not have thought of will appear because they cannot playtest the game enough to find every possible linked move, strategy etc. especially for the large roster they have planned.

 

[Pip]

Certainly true. I only really meant balancing the game so far as they are able to. My true intent was to say the if wavedashing is in then Nintendo wanted it to be part of the game-play and thought it would affect the dynamics of the game-play in a positive way.