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Advanced Techniques in Brawl
- Thread starter RDK
- Start date
Just to blow all this "Nintendo wants to effect the dynamics of game-play in a positive way" crap out of the air, remember that the Wii revolves around appealing "casual gamers" (<- WTF, Nintendo?!) and the like, so I don't think they'll be too concerned about the serious, competitive Smash community...
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
You have a good point, Pip. Perhaps I did overreact just a wee little bit. I can honestly say that, intrinsically, I knew he was being rather polite about the subject matter when it came to his most recent post. I just voraciously wanted to defend my point. Perhaps coining the term "kicking a dead horse" was kinda redundant of me to put in a topic-specific thread that involves "Wavedashing in Brawl?" Lol.
I still stand by my previous points, however. "Honor" in something like a video game is meaningless and does not make your true colors all that discerning. It's what you do outside of the games that defines character. Wavedashing isn't so much a glitch as an exploit, and people use Wavedashing to enhance their performance. There is nothing unfair about the mechanic since it is readily accessible and can be easily taught. Blah, blah, blah, blah...I could talk about this all night, but I have posting to do elsewhere.
My apologies to the party involved (Wegus).
Smooth Criminal
Pip
Smash Apprentice
Well I think this line of reasoning this serves to enhance my conditional point because if wavedashing is indeed left in the game then it means that Nintendo feels it won't be detrimental to casual game-play. This combined with the fact that that most competitive players feel it enhances their level of game-play anyway means that the inclusion of wavedashing in Brawl should be perceived as harmful to no one.
I just wanted to point out that I don't agree that this is true for all video games. For example, I think that how someone chooses to play and purport themselves in an MMOG can indeed be very telling about their inner character. However I do agree that what you are saying is largely true in the case of more purely competitive games like Smash, where social aspects are far less intertwined with the actual gameplay.
180OP
Smash Journeyman
Best statement ever on the subject.Pip PHD said:
If the technique(wavedashing) enhances the game of the most competitive players(and/or the best players of Smash) then it is harmful to no one.
Linari Sabre
Smash Apprentice
yeah but guess what if there something that wasnt founded on acciddent where others for you can say like someone a noob who new to the game saw that someone was using this tech to their advantage and then after that calling them a noob just cuz they dont know it yet that is what irratitates me so badly and for devs part put it the manual or game(intentional) before you produce it
Here's the problem though--the devs shouldn't have to put it in the manual. The n00bs should have enough gumption to look into it for themselves after seeing it in action, and if they don't, that's their fault. Can't help not wanting to be enlightened.
Thinking you already know something to its ultimate potential is the greatest barrier against actually learning.
Thinking you already know something to its ultimate potential is the greatest barrier against actually learning.
Linari Sabre
Smash Apprentice
hmmm let me think about that reply.... Is that they didnt actually know this until now and seeing that the glitch being used for pros to make the game more faster and cant deal with the slownest of the game if they really cared much(no offense really)and a pro is a pro if they can realize that they are good without a glitch I would care if they would say something to me Thank You...and some ppl dont what to lower themselves to a glitch in the computer or game
And really hope that this glitch is changed for something elselikeair dashesor something new we all can agree on
Y34HDUD3!!!
Smash Lord
It's not a glitch dammit. *hands fire extinguisher* I think you'll need this.
This is the exact mentality that gets you called a scrub around here. People like you are not willing to expand their gaming horizon and experience, and would rather just condemn it as a glitch instead of taking the time to actually learn it and apply it.
People like you make me sick. Sorry if it seems like I'm flaming, but when people say **** like that, it's SOOO annoying. Wah, wah, wah, stop using that glitch, it's not honorable and it wasn't meant to be in the game, booh hoooh.
That's what you sound like to me.
Y34HDUD3!!!
Smash Lord
And for the final hit:
It's taking advantage of the traction of the characters, and it's not an error of any kind.
And if you're gonna keep coming back with the glitch thing, I would like you to explain yourself.
It's taking advantage of the traction of the characters, and it's not an error of any kind.
And if you're gonna keep coming back with the glitch thing, I would like you to explain yourself.
Linari Sabre
Smash Apprentice
okay what if in the new game that they figure out new and easier way that looks cool ease to use and provide a new way of mind games and comboing in fact that i can reaaly use wavedashing as much as the next guy
Adi
Smash Lord
Someone quelled Dylan's flames?
O.o
...
Phew, thank god this thread is out of the scrubs making crappy arguments phase, now I can actually enter this thread.
EDIT: Uggh, just looked at the post above mine -.-
P.S. Captain Falcon's Final Smash = Galaxy Destroying Falcon Punch? (complete with Japanese voiceovers)
O.o
...
Phew, thank god this thread is out of the scrubs making crappy arguments phase, now I can actually enter this thread.
EDIT: Uggh, just looked at the post above mine -.-
P.S. Captain Falcon's Final Smash = Galaxy Destroying Falcon Punch? (complete with Japanese voiceovers)
180OP
Smash Journeyman
How about youuuuuuuuuu stop being lazy and just practice for like an hour or so and LEARN IT!
GAWD, people make it sound like it's rocket science or like some uber attack that requires you to press buttons in some street fighter sequential way. Something like down forward back down down forward forward A B R X forward A +B = WAAAAAAAAVEDAAAASH!! WOOOOOOOOO!
You press X or Y and then quickly(before your candy *** character gets his/her carcass off the ground) press R+Diagonal direction!! is that so hard? frig!
I hope they don't make it easier to 'do' because it is already so easy.
The only people who dont know how to do it are those who don't know about wavedashing, the ones that don't practice it or are blind or under 6 years old.
GAWD!! there is a video of a 7 year old on youtube at a tournament doing wavedashing and playing with advanced techs!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aqpYIfHWi3U
Adi
Smash Lord
d*mn good point, in all honesty if you don't have the determination to sit down and learn how to wavedash than you do not have the potential to ever compete with a competent smasher no matter what rules are in place.
Linari Sabre
Smash Apprentice
geez man youuuuuuuuu stop being harsh I was opening up about new ideas about comboing and srry about the other things just trying put ideas for the new game. i already know to do WD sheesh
Y34HDUD3!!!
Smash Lord
I am not going to read 23 pages of posts, so I have no idea if this has been resolved, but I can say that "boycotting" a game if it doesn't have the features you want is pathetic.
Yes, it would be nice if they kept it (and I strongly believe they will), but frankly refusing to play a game you know you will like (or at least, saying that you won't play it...) in some deranged attempt to prove some point that has gone completely past me, is ridiculous.
No one cares if you play. Believing that your silly "boycott" will have any affect whatsoever is hilarious in a sad way.
If Nintendo believes that the removal of Wave Dashing will make the game better as a whole, then they are probbably right. The designers, programmers, and testers also play super smash bros. You can bet they have watched advanced play. If they make the decision that Wave Dashing breaks the game or its new features, then I think we can all agree that your opinion will have as much effect as trying to blow out a forest fire with a turkey baster.
In the end, its solely your loss, and in a twisted variation of natural selection, I can assume that the overall maturity of the brawl player base will be higher than melee's.
Second post FTW.
Yes, it would be nice if they kept it (and I strongly believe they will), but frankly refusing to play a game you know you will like (or at least, saying that you won't play it...) in some deranged attempt to prove some point that has gone completely past me, is ridiculous.
No one cares if you play. Believing that your silly "boycott" will have any affect whatsoever is hilarious in a sad way.
If Nintendo believes that the removal of Wave Dashing will make the game better as a whole, then they are probbably right. The designers, programmers, and testers also play super smash bros. You can bet they have watched advanced play. If they make the decision that Wave Dashing breaks the game or its new features, then I think we can all agree that your opinion will have as much effect as trying to blow out a forest fire with a turkey baster.
In the end, its solely your loss, and in a twisted variation of natural selection, I can assume that the overall maturity of the brawl player base will be higher than melee's.
Second post FTW.
180OP
Smash Journeyman
nooooooo someone to set the thread on fire agaiin nooooooo!
Actually along the 23 pages, he decided he is not going to boycott brawl. He thinks he's going to suck at it if WD is not in because it constitutes 50% of his mindgames or something lke that. Obviously he is overly dependant on the technique.
aaaaaaand most likely it will stay in the game becaaaaaause it has to do with game physics.
soooooo that sums up the thread. *desperately tries to put out the flame of your post by blowing on it*
*doesnt work*
alright "FAAALCON PAAAAAAAAWNCH!"
*gets 3rd degree burns*
it can easily be taken out by turning the mode for "ground" to the mode for "wall". Then the character will airdodge along the ground, not do the movement thing.
"Obviously he is overly dependant on the technique."
How can you be "overly dependant" on a technique? If it makes you play better is that bad or something? Hey you know what, I think that I might be "overly dependant" on the A button because without it I can't win.
"Obviously he is overly dependant on the technique."
How can you be "overly dependant" on a technique? If it makes you play better is that bad or something? Hey you know what, I think that I might be "overly dependant" on the A button because without it I can't win.
180OP
Smash Journeyman
Uhh yea. Without the A button you can't win. But how does no wavedashing make you go from pro to uber suck? By the way, this was something from the another thread, so you wouldn't understand the entire context.
Linari Sabre
Smash Apprentice
Ummmm thanks you for your nice answers 1800p psicicle and 69 Whew
I have read both threads, I do understand the context. If wavedashing is a big part of your game, then you wouldn't be as good without it. I'm just wondering how somebody can be overly dependent on a technique. How is "overly dependant" on the A button different from "overly dependant" on wavedashing? Are there different thresholds? What determines these thresholds?
180OP
Smash Journeyman
If wavedash is a big part of your game, and the lack of it means you suck then you are dependant on it.
Meaning if Nintendo didn't carry from one game to the other then you would rank from (hypothetically) top 25 players to someone who can't compete. which is what I meant to say. The ability to re-adapt. Understaaaaaaand?
You said "overly dependent". You are just trying to change what you said before. I am saying that you can't be "overly dependent" on a tactic in the game. As I said before, you wouldn't call somebody "overly dependent" on the A button.
Nice job creating a strawman though...
Nice job creating a strawman though...
180OP
Smash Journeyman
How am I trying to change what I said? The 'overly' was meant to emphasis the dependacy. If you saw from the other thread, in context which you clearly didn't.
Sheesh, maybe I shoulda underlined n bolded instead. I would have if I knew you would of dragged 3-4 posts out of nothing.
Sheesh, maybe I shoulda underlined n bolded instead. I would have if I knew you would of dragged 3-4 posts out of nothing.
Lol! IT'S OVER 9000!!!!
...if all they did was use the A button and nothing else, then CH-yah, they would be.
It's possible to be good at competitive smash without wavedashing [insert some examples here, I can't think of any right now], but the majority of people use it.
Maybe we should start boldening/underlining things...some of the nubs in this room seem to have some sort of astigmatism that prevents them from reading relevant things unless they have neon lights over them or something.
Sync99
Smash Journeyman
Well I must say the red font gets the nubs intimidated, making them say things to try and sound cool rather than talk about why wavedashing should/shouldn't be in brawl.
(...like me)
But seriously, now that I think about it I need wavedashing... it gives another option after shielding that I myself spam too well...
(...like me)
But seriously, now that I think about it I need wavedashing... it gives another option after shielding that I myself spam too well...
Dependant is different from overly dependent. Overly dependent has the connotation of depending too much on something while simply being dependent does not have this same connotation.
"If wavedash is a big part of your game, and the lack of it means you suck then you are dependant on it."
There, you are telling me what it means to be dependent on something. I asked before how somebody could be overly dependent on something. The thing is, in smash bros, I don't see how anybody could be overly dependent on anything because if you play better when you are dependent on something, there is nothing wrong.
I know what the other thread was talking about, what with people not playing a wavedashless Brawl and other people telling those people that they were dependent on a glitch.
Again, you are arguing against a strawman. And then used something called ad hominem:
"Sheesh, maybe I shoulda underlined n bolded instead. I would have if I knew you would of dragged 3-4 posts out of nothing."
. Hopefully most will see through that.
"...if all they did was use the A button and nothing else, then CH-yah, they would be.
It's possible to be good at competitive smash without wavedashing [insert some examples here, I can't think of any right now], but the majority of people use it."
No, if all they did was use the A button and do better than they would with any other tactic, they would not be "overly dependent", simply dependent. I know that it is possible to be good at smash without wavedashing, I never said it is not. Here is another strawman. What I am saying is that if somebody used wavedashing and did a lot better with it than without it, they are not "overly dependent" on it. The phrase overly dependent has conotations like being better without whatever one is overly dependent on.
"Maybe we should start boldening/underlining things...some of the nubs in this room seem to have some sort of astigmatism that prevents them from reading relevant things unless they have neon lights over them or something."
Are you talking about me?
Let me point out what I did not do here:
1) I did not make up your arguments.
2) I did not personally attack you, your intelligence, or your ability to read.
Please have the courtesy to do the same in your next post.
"If wavedash is a big part of your game, and the lack of it means you suck then you are dependant on it."
There, you are telling me what it means to be dependent on something. I asked before how somebody could be overly dependent on something. The thing is, in smash bros, I don't see how anybody could be overly dependent on anything because if you play better when you are dependent on something, there is nothing wrong.
I know what the other thread was talking about, what with people not playing a wavedashless Brawl and other people telling those people that they were dependent on a glitch.
Again, you are arguing against a strawman. And then used something called ad hominem:
"Sheesh, maybe I shoulda underlined n bolded instead. I would have if I knew you would of dragged 3-4 posts out of nothing."
. Hopefully most will see through that.
"...if all they did was use the A button and nothing else, then CH-yah, they would be.
It's possible to be good at competitive smash without wavedashing [insert some examples here, I can't think of any right now], but the majority of people use it."
No, if all they did was use the A button and do better than they would with any other tactic, they would not be "overly dependent", simply dependent. I know that it is possible to be good at smash without wavedashing, I never said it is not. Here is another strawman. What I am saying is that if somebody used wavedashing and did a lot better with it than without it, they are not "overly dependent" on it. The phrase overly dependent has conotations like being better without whatever one is overly dependent on.
"Maybe we should start boldening/underlining things...some of the nubs in this room seem to have some sort of astigmatism that prevents them from reading relevant things unless they have neon lights over them or something."
Are you talking about me?
Let me point out what I did not do here:
1) I did not make up your arguments.
2) I did not personally attack you, your intelligence, or your ability to read.
Please have the courtesy to do the same in your next post.
180OP
Smash Journeyman
Here we go again. Alright.
1)what is a strawman? I am not familiar with the term.
2)I used the word overly to emphasize on the dependancy not to point out the magnitude/level of it. The post from the other thread shows that, if you had read it/understood, which is what I wanted to RE-ITTERATE here to SUM this thread up for the gentleman who came late. Read THAT post again.
3) Had I not used the word 'overly' or replaced it with some other word that was better fit, you most likely wouldn't be tripping on something so trivial. Am I right? You tripped over one word. One freaking word.
4) How is that an ad hominem? That really wasn't an attack on you rather a genius observation by me. Read point 3 again.
Red Darkstar Kirby was right. READ THE RELEVANT things from both threads and tell me whether I meant YOUR UNDERSTANDING of 'overly dependant' or something different.
Oh yea and 5) if you really are tripping over the word 'OVERLY' then re-read the post and omit it.
Testament27
Smash Journeyman
1800 man...i COMPLETELY agree with you.
One word changes the meaning of the whole thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman
"3) Had I not used the word 'overly' or replaced it with some other word that was better fit, you most likely wouldn't be tripping on something so trivial. Am I right? You tripped over one word. One freaking word."
Tell me what you mean by overly dependent then. I've asked you what you meant by it several times. Here is a post before:
"I have read both threads, I do understand the context. If wavedashing is a big part of your game, then you wouldn't be as good without it. I'm just wondering how somebody can be overly dependent on a technique. How is "overly dependant" on the A button different from "overly dependant" on wavedashing? Are there different thresholds? What determines these thresholds?"
you respond here:
"If wavedash is a big part of your game, and the lack of it means you suck then you are dependant on it.
Meaning if Nintendo didn't carry from one game to the other then you would rank from (hypothetically) top 25 players to someone who can't compete. which is what I meant to say. The ability to re-adapt. Understaaaaaaand?"
here you explain what it means to be dependent, but not what it means to be over dependent, which is what I originally asked. I am not going to change the meaning of your previous posts for my benefit, I wanted to glean a clearer understanding of what you meant.
I already quoted your little personal attack. Your last few posts have had a condescending tone to them.
"2)I used the word overly to emphasize on the dependancy not to point out the magnitude/level of it. The post from the other thread shows that, if you had read it/understood, which is what I wanted to RE-ITTERATE here to SUM this thread up for the gentleman who came late. Read THAT post again."
That is not what it means though. I may be missing something so can you explain it more clearly? Maybe with a better word choice? Can you really blame me for replying to your posts when you respond with:
"Uhh yea. Without the A button you can't win. But how does no wavedashing make you go from pro to uber suck? By the way, this was something from the another thread, so you wouldn't understand the entire context."
which didn't answer my question?
All the above may be disorganized, sorry about that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman
"3) Had I not used the word 'overly' or replaced it with some other word that was better fit, you most likely wouldn't be tripping on something so trivial. Am I right? You tripped over one word. One freaking word."
Tell me what you mean by overly dependent then. I've asked you what you meant by it several times. Here is a post before:
"I have read both threads, I do understand the context. If wavedashing is a big part of your game, then you wouldn't be as good without it. I'm just wondering how somebody can be overly dependent on a technique. How is "overly dependant" on the A button different from "overly dependant" on wavedashing? Are there different thresholds? What determines these thresholds?"
you respond here:
"If wavedash is a big part of your game, and the lack of it means you suck then you are dependant on it.
Meaning if Nintendo didn't carry from one game to the other then you would rank from (hypothetically) top 25 players to someone who can't compete. which is what I meant to say. The ability to re-adapt. Understaaaaaaand?"
here you explain what it means to be dependent, but not what it means to be over dependent, which is what I originally asked. I am not going to change the meaning of your previous posts for my benefit, I wanted to glean a clearer understanding of what you meant.
I already quoted your little personal attack. Your last few posts have had a condescending tone to them.
"2)I used the word overly to emphasize on the dependancy not to point out the magnitude/level of it. The post from the other thread shows that, if you had read it/understood, which is what I wanted to RE-ITTERATE here to SUM this thread up for the gentleman who came late. Read THAT post again."
That is not what it means though. I may be missing something so can you explain it more clearly? Maybe with a better word choice? Can you really blame me for replying to your posts when you respond with:
"Uhh yea. Without the A button you can't win. But how does no wavedashing make you go from pro to uber suck? By the way, this was something from the another thread, so you wouldn't understand the entire context."
which didn't answer my question?
All the above may be disorganized, sorry about that.
SuperLinkBrothers
Smash Ace
*Yawn*
Who really cares if it's in or not, this game'll rule either way!!
But if you're going to keep up this topic then I've got some very important *yawn* information... *zzz......*
*zzz....*
I rate this thread a 2: bad and... * zzz.....*
Bye...zzz...
Who really cares if it's in or not, this game'll rule either way!!
But if you're going to keep up this topic then I've got some very important *yawn* information... *zzz......*
*zzz....*
I rate this thread a 2: bad and... * zzz.....*
Bye...zzz...
180OP
Smash Journeyman
"Tell me what you mean by overly dependent then. I've asked you what you meant by it several times."
What I meant by 'overly dependant' was what I was restating each time in my posts about dependency.
It may have been a poor choice of a word and you have clearly interpreted the phrase differently when I meant to say the same thing as before.
The mix up happened when you asked about 'overly dependant' and I restated my original post in a better way without using the word 'overly' thinking that I was again restating the same thing, to which your mind interpreted as different.
This in-turn led to a lot of frustration on my part and hence that explains the condescending tone.
Blah, yea ok I don't blame you. I hope everything above makes sense.
What I meant by 'overly dependant' was what I was restating each time in my posts about dependency.
It may have been a poor choice of a word and you have clearly interpreted the phrase differently when I meant to say the same thing as before.
The mix up happened when you asked about 'overly dependant' and I restated my original post in a better way without using the word 'overly' thinking that I was again restating the same thing, to which your mind interpreted as different.
This in-turn led to a lot of frustration on my part and hence that explains the condescending tone.
Blah, yea ok I don't blame you. I hope everything above makes sense.
Originally quoted by Psicicle:
What were we talking about initially, again?
No.
I never said you personally attacked you or made up my arguments. When I said the thing abou the nubs not being able to read relevant things, yadda yadda yadda, I was referring to most of the people with under a 100 post count in here.
Lol, it's too late, and I'm not even going to touch all this dependant/overly-dependant stuff--you guys seem to have patched that up already, so I'm not going to beat a dead Yoshi.
What were we talking about initially, again?
Adi
Smash Lord
Captain Falcon's pecs.