Advanced Techniques in Brawl

[Dynamism]

I can Wavedash pretty well. I've never been in a tournament againts Wavedash based technique users but I've found many advantages to it. In my local area, (Okanagan Canada if anyones near by tell me) I have no competition and havent since the first year melee was released but that was long before I learned to WD.
Truely, I think WD based techniques limit you imesurable amounts. I use a WD once a stock and it totally throws my opponents off cause they don't expect it. I'm more of an all round (switching techniques in the middle of battle and never doing the same trick twice in a row kind of player.)
Ken (the Marth guy who I'd love to see in battle or perferably, battle) beat those guys because after a minute he probably knew what they were going to do because they find something that works (most of the time) and do it until it fails then try something else. Ken is the more all round fighter and probably won because of it.

Q about Ken: Is he good with all characters or just Marth and mains a couple others?
Where could I find this guy or any REALLY GOOD BATTLES.......You tube under Ken Smash Bros??

Edit.. I just found one of him fighting some dude, both Fox. Pretty good but they seem predictable...
Maybe it's cause it works.... Lots of wavedashing too.

 

[psicicle]

Let's see...what did Smash 64 have?
Z-canceling
Smash DI
Dash-dancing (all characters had this) Im not sure about this one
Pivot
Edge-cancel
Taunt-cancel
Shine Cancel NO
Short Hop
Fast Fall
Jump from shield NO
Teleport ???
Edgehog
Spikes
Teching
Ledgehop
Shield grab
Crouch cancel
Usmash/Up B JC
Jab cancel
A crapload of zero-to-death combos

I don't know about much of the 64 advanced stuff but there was no JC shields or shines. Have you tried playing 64, because you would realize pretty quickly that you can't do those.

 

[greenblob]

You can shine cancel, but it involves a different method. You can't jump out of it, but if you land during a shine, it cancels. It's even more useful than the jump shine cancel.

And you can jump from the shield. Unlike Melee, even Yoshi could do it, and this is what enables Yoshi to parry.

Just so you know I just played Smash 64 within the last half hour.

Oh, and the [wiki]teleport[/wiki] is exclusive to Samus and Jiggs.

And I decided to add some videos.

Neph's Shine Pro vid: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Tu-CXHwYYok
Ant-D's awesome Shine Jab combo vid (ZOMG THUNDERS COMBO): http://youtube.com/watch?v=Gd8D04HZ1VE

And you can see videos of the teleport in the wiki.

 

[psicicle]

really?

And how do you jump from the shield? I played it a while back and it didn't work and it really annoyed me.

 

[greenblob]

Er... You hold shield, and then you hit jump.

You can also add shield platform falling (or whatever it's called)--dropping from a platform from a shield.

 

[Vanusk]

Whether there are advanced techniques or not. There BETTER be some sort of technique, (advanced or not) or something.... that those that want to play the game hardcore can better themselves with. Something that actually does separate the pro from the noob. I don't want it to be just button mashing, or chain grabbing, or chain ranged attack, there should be strategy, skill, and development.

 

[XenoGuard]

I personally wouldn't mind if Wavedashing was taken out, rolls seem to have been modified so that wavedashing would seem nessessary, and i never used wavedashing anyways, I Main Link, and i was never really good at learning it, so i fight without it. And all the tournaments i go too are 4 player, so i never really have a chance to go one on one with a "pro" as they say

 

[greenblob]

Except wavedashing never replaced rolling in the first place...

 

[XenoGuard]

Except wavedashing never replaced rolling in the first place...

Lol not my concern

 

[psicicle]

oh... I guess whan I played it my controller was messed up or something because I distinctly remember not being able to JC my shield.

 

[Darkfur]

That is definitely taken out of context. You clearly have a misinformed view of what counts as a glitch in programming. Just because the error is not harmful, doesn't mean it still is not a glitch. If I compile a program and what I wrote has an unintended bonus to the user, it still is a glitch by definition as I did not intend for this error to take place. Anytime someone writes a program and something else (other than what the programmer expected to happen) takes place, it is a glitch. It is an error, regardless of its results.

It does EXACTLY what it was programmed to do. We use it very fast, and consistently to Wavedash. We use something that was done intentionally in a new way. It's not a glitch or a malfunction of that particular technique. Airdodging into the ground isn't what gives us the unexpected Bonus, it's the way we use it. And unless you are saying being able to press buttons quickly is a glitch, then I think you are the one in need of getting their facts straight. [And if you are saying that, then I'll just have to roll my eyes.]

 

[psicicle]

meh, it's an argument of semantics and the argument itself if ever resolved is useless. All it will tell us is whether or not wavedash fits into the category of "glitch".

 

[Misto-Roboto]

It does EXACTLY what it was programmed to do. We use it very fast, and consistently to Wavedash. We use something that was done intentionally in a new way. It's not a glitch or a malfunction of that particular technique. Airdodging into the ground isn't what gives us the unexpected Bonus, it's the way we use it. And unless you are saying being able to press buttons quickly is a glitch, then I think you are the one in need of getting their facts straight. [And if you are saying that, then I'll just have to roll my eyes.]

I do not believe they intended for you to air dodge into the ground. One could constitute that as a glitch. Either way their is no means to prove or disprove that without asking the development team themselves. Of course would wonder, if they intended for such a technique, why would they not make it known when the game was made? That begs the question.

meh, it's an argument of semantics and the argument itself if ever resolved is useless. All it will tell us is whether or not wavedash fits into the category of "glitch".

The point I was trying to make. But anybody who uses a technique a lot which defines their skill will no doubt defend its usage as their pride and view of their skill is at stake.

 

[greenblob]

A list of common weak arguments:

1. Wavedashing was unintended/is a glitch.
First of all, WD is not a glitch. It is an intended result (sliding) used in an unintended manner (movement). Furthermore, Z-canceling was a glitch, and in Melee, it is an official technique. WD's being a glitch/exploit/unintended technique has nothing to do with its inclusion in Brawl.
2. WD is not noob-friendly.
This couldn't be furthur from truth. The WD is relatively easy to learn, and without it, we'd be learning pivoting, which is much harder.
3. Rolls are faster.
WD never replaced rolling. If there wereno WDing, people wouldn't be rolling in situations in which they WD; they'd be walking or dashing.
4. WD ruins the game balance.
WD alone couldn't've ruined the balance, considering the slew of other "unintended" techniques out there, such as SHFFLing and ledge-canceling. Also, Brawl is a new game with new features and tweaked characters. Brawl's balance has nothing to do with Melee's balance.
5. WD is cheap.
sirlin.net

 

[RDK]

1. Wavedashing was unintended/is a glitch.
First of all, WD is not a glitch. It is an intended result (sliding) used in an unintended manner (movement). Furthermore, Z-canceling was a glitch, and in Melee, it is an official technique. WD's being a glitch/exploit/unintended technique has nothing to do with its inclusion in Brawl.
2. WD is not noob-friendly.
This couldn't be furthur from truth. The WD is relatively easy to learn, and without it, we'd be learning pivoting, which is much harder.
3. Rolls are faster.
WD never replaced rolling. If there wereno WDing, people wouldn't be rolling in situations in which they WD; they'd be walking or dashing.
4. WD ruins the game balance.
WD alone couldn't've ruined the balance, considering the slew of other "unintended" techniques out there, such as SHFFLing and ledge-canceling. Also, Brawl is a new game with new features and tweaked characters. Brawl's balance has nothing to do with Melee's balance.
5. WD is cheap.
sirlin.net

Great points, Greenblob. Someone should sticky this *******.

 

[Darkfur]

I do not believe they intended for you to air dodge into the ground. One could constitute that as a glitch. Either way their is no means to prove or disprove that without asking the development team themselves. Of course would wonder, if they intended for such a technique, why would they not make it known when the game was made? That begs the question.



The point I was trying to make. But anybody who uses a technique a lot which defines their skill will no doubt defend its usage as their pride and view of their skill is at stake.

YES they DID intend for you to airdodge into the ground. That's why the animation that ensues is there to keep you from air dodging through the stage and into being stuck or oblivion.

Now like I said, we use this safeguard to our advantage, but it still does exactly what it is supposed to do, and therefore is not a glitch. It is on the contrary a safeguard to prevent a glitch.

And to your second point... since I can barely Wavedash at all and can't use it when I play versus other people... I suppose that this disproves your point. I defend it because I know what a glitch is.

I've even interned as a Quality Assurance tester, and will be applying to be one while I continue my education after I get my BA.

 

[masterluigi1]

Wikipedia quote

Video game glitches
In video games, a glitch is a term used by players to indicate a programming error which results in behavior not intended by the programmers. There are several different types of glitches that occur in video games. Programming errors in games vary from incorrectly displayed graphics, game-freezing or crashes, data corruption, and others. The occurrence of some glitches can be replicated deliberately by doing a series of certain tasks in a specific order; the infamous Minus World glitch in Super Mario Bros. is a simple example.

Correct me if im wrong, but im pretty sure Sakurai didnt create wavedash on prupose, and probably since the glitch is so famos it won't be removed.

 

[greenblob]

Like I and many others have said, the effect is intended, the usage is not. Therefore, it is technically not a glitch.

 

[RDK]

MasterLuigi, I wouldn't go around quoting Wikipedia--it's unreliability may cause you to lose arguments. Wikipedia isn't the reason you lost this one, however; it's because you're just wrong.

Greenblob, QFT.

 

[masterluigi1]

MasterLuigi, I wouldn't go around quoting Wikipedia--it's unreliability may cause you to lose arguments. Wikipedia isn't the reason you lost this one, however; it's because you're just wrong.

Greenblob, QFT.

Just because Wikipedia is unreliable in some area's doesn't mean it's wrong about every thing they say and I high dought they would lie about a simple definition of a word . How am I wrong? We realy don't know if Sakurai intentionaly or unintentionaly put it into the game, so you realy can't state it as fact. Just because it's in the physics engine doesn't mean it's not a glitch.

 

[greenblob]

Actually, according to that definition, if it's in the physics engine, it can't be a glitch.

 

[masterluigi1]

Actually, according to that definition, if it's in the physics engine, it can't be a glitch.

Nowhere in the definition does it say "if it's in the physics engine, it can't be a glitch", it cleary states "a glitch is a term used by players to indicate a programming error which results in behavior not intended by the programmers". I don't even see anything that looks like what you said. We realy don't know for a fact that it's a glitch or not so there is no point in arguing over it.

 

[greenblob]

You can conclude to that argument from the definition.

The behavior was intended. The usage was not. Therefore it's not a glitch. But again, that doesn't matter *points to Z-canceling*.

 

[masterluigi1]

You can conclude to that argument from the definition.

The behavior was intended. The usage was not. Therefore it's not a glitch. But again, that doesn't matter *points to Z-canceling*.

Where you there when Sakurai was in development with the game?

No. So you don't know if sakurai wanted The character to slide after an air dodge close to the ground or not, neither can you prove it to me so you realy don't know.

 

[cyberdemon]

If you practice with your main character for about 3-4 months, you can master the so-called advanced techs.

And then you'll realize that they aren't as broken as you tought, since wavedashing and l-cancelling doesn't instantly make you win the game

It takes a lot of deep thinking to win a match, i.e. predicting your opponents moves, to lure them into doing a certain move, etc.

Then you'll find out that the advenced techniques can help you only so much in a match.

 

[greenblob]

Where you there when Sakurai was in development with the game?

No. So you don't know if sakurai wanted The character to slide after an air dodge close to the ground or not, neither can you prove it to me so you realy don't know.

That's what the landfallspecial or whatever it's called is.

 

[masterluigi1]

That's what the landfallspecial or whatever it's called is.

Tell me where Sakurai said it was the landfall special.

 

[greenblob]

Sakurai never mentioned short hopping, l-canceling, fast falling, teching, etc. either.

 

[RDK]

About fastfalling...

It looks like they nerfed Fox's fall in the Brawl video....he doesn't drop like a hot iron anymore.

WTF Sakurai?

 

[masterluigi1]

Sakurai never mentioned short hopping, l-canceling, fast falling, teching, etc. either.

Whatever. You can stay true to your opinion an I can stay true to mine but the point is we don't know.

 

[slikvik]

Tell me where Sakurai said it was the landfall special.

you need an AR to check that. he didnt just make it up

 

[Red Exodus]

You need an old action replay for that. The new ones only give you crappy preset codes so you'll have to use Amazon or Ebay or anything like that.

 

[psicicle]

umm landfallspecial is not specifically wavedash.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=110719


But there is a common misconception about the origins of the wavedash. Some people claim that the developers found out about the wavedash before the game hit the shelves, but decided to leave it in the game. This is not true. The "LandingFallSpecial" state that people mention, is just a state of landing lag that happens whenever you use a move that leaves you immobile afterward, ie An Up-B or an Airdodge. We have no idea if the dev team found Wavedashing before they released the game, there is no way to know.

 

[RDK]

The only way we'll know is if they take it out in Brawl.

Or you could ask them.

 

[THK]

For the millionth freaking time.

Wavedashing is NOT a glitch, it's an exploit. The freaking End.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Ok heres a little story.

I once was a casual player. I had masterd all the basic skills and I would always beat all my friends. I thought I was the best. I thought I was so good that I started looking up to see if there were any tournaments for Melee, which there were. It was April of 2005. When I went to it I got killed easily. Infact I got double-eliminated in about 4 tournaments b4 I won my first tournament match. I was only 13 years old back then. When I noticed I clearly wasn't good enough, I studied combo videos over the whole summer. I was very infulenced by the combo video Puff Stuff. Because it taught me how to do the rising pound, the wall of Pain, and up throw rest combos. Even after that I still wasn't good. I met another kid name Tipo Mastr(well thats what hes called now). Hes about the same age as me. We played SSBM everytime he came over. And by doing that we got better and better. Now 2 years have past and I'm finnaly starting to win tournaments. Yes, for a casual player it takes about 2 years to become as good as serious players. So if I were you I'd just wait for Brawl to come out and get good at that. Some other people may have gotten better quicker. They probably had some kind of talent, but me? I had no talent at the game. I'm just good at picking up games quick and being good at them in general. But with 2 years of trainning I became what I am today. Now when I was like you guys I loved playing with items and the majority of the time I would play on Hyrule or Rainbow Cruise. But as I played the tournaments I got more and more used to the no items and the few amount of stages. But there is still one side of me that still likes to play with items. Some times when I have my friends over we get some Pizza, we put items on high, 99 stock on Rainbow Cruise. I mean I find playing seriously is fun because I like to win, but some times it does get boring, I switch to items, then later I'll go back to playing seriously. At tournaments though when there are so many different people to play it never gets boring. Because when I get board there I move on and play against another opponent that I've never played b4.

 

[Dark Yoshi77]

I hope there are no advanced techniques in Brawl whatsoever. It would be like the original Smash Bros but all the better. Just basic attacks, smash attacks, B moves, and shield. It would also be hilarious seeing all of you say brawl sucks because of that.

 

[Adi]

There were advanced techniques in Smash Bros 64... good job at being ignorant ^^

 

[psicicle]

Oh yeah, cause the original certainly didn't have SHFFL, edgehog, dashdance, shield grab, etc.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Oh yeah, cause the original certainly didn't have SHFFL, edgehog, dashdance, shield grab, etc.

Wait, are you being sarcastic? Cause you know its hard to read sarcasm >_>

Cause really all those you said are. Yeah, your being sarcastic aren't you?