Advanced Techniques in Brawl

[Pr0g]

You're very wrong. The wavedash is a direct result of the games physics.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

This is true, there is a way to make a wave dash without a big glitch, but It dosen't mean that it dosen't defy the game's physics. So they may want to fix it so that wavedashing is a real regular part of the game.

Defy the games physics? Um traction plus horizontal momentum = slide. Notice how when luigi stops running.. he .. uh.. slides? or when you hit luigi and he is shielding he slides...

why? Luigi has the lowest traction and therefor the best wavedash. It makes PERFECT sense. Crouch cancelling makes about as much sense as wding

 

[maxpower1227]

Defy the games physics? Um traction plus horizontal momentum = slide. Notice how when luigi stops running.. he .. uh.. slides? or when you hit luigi and he is shielding he slides...

Someone with forward momentum continuing to move forward as friction slows them down = GOOD PHYSICS

Someone with NO forward momentum suddenly sliding parallel to the ground for no reason in the absence of an external force = BAD PHYSICS

Seriously. Don't try to pull that stuff on me

 

[Pr0g]

But the wave dash is a combination of their forward momentum and the air dodge. They're not suddenly sliding on the ground. They're jumping, very very slightly, then quickly falling back to the ground with their natural forward momentum. Both the air dodge and forward momentum are natural aspects of the game. With the same argument, why couldn't wave dashing be a natural aspect of the game if it's comprised of two natural elements?

It's like chemistry. Two or more elements combine to form a combined element. Hydrogen is hydrogen. But when mixed with oxygen, you get water. Is water a glitch in the real world? I don't think so.

 

[DainBramaged]

Someone with forward momentum continuing to move forward as friction slows them down = GOOD PHYSICS

Someone with NO forward momentum suddenly sliding parallel to the ground for no reason in the absence of an external force = BAD PHYSICS

Seriously. Don't try to pull that stuff on me

And thus, the wavedash is a "special" technique....

the point was that, being Luigi is the most "slippery" character when it comes to normal movement, it's only natuaral that he'd have the largest wavedash ( because it's effected by the friction of each specific character)

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Someone with forward momentum continuing to move forward as friction slows them down = GOOD PHYSICS

Someone with NO forward momentum suddenly sliding parallel to the ground for no reason in the absence of an external force = BAD PHYSICS

Seriously. Don't try to pull that stuff on me

Oh wow. I can't believe you're bringing this up. *deep breath*

By your logic, double jumping shouldnt work, and all characters should fall at the same rate.

little tip : Melee's physics aren't based on real physics.

 

[Takeshi245]

Someone with forward momentum continuing to move forward as friction slows them down = GOOD PHYSICS

Someone with NO forward momentum suddenly sliding parallel to the ground for no reason in the absence of an external force = BAD PHYSICS

Seriously. Don't try to pull that stuff on me

Of course friction slows the character down. Without friction, the game would suck. The "external force" is just jumping and air-dodging to the ground very quickly to slide. That's the "reason" why they have forward momentum to slide parellel to the ground. Why don't you go to www.sirlin.net. Keep searching and you'll find a huge article on the type of person you are.

 

[psicicle]

"in the absence of an external force"

They get the force from the airdodge

 

[BentoBox]

Why are you still asking that stupid ****ing question? We're debating it because its an important technique that could change the entire game for the worse if removed. Thats why.

Because surely, 60 pages of rambling will change anything.

































































Not.

 

[Takeshi245]

Oh wow. I can't believe you're bringing this up. *deep breath*

By your logic, double jumping shouldnt work, and all characters should fall at the same rate.

little tip : Melee's physics aren't based on real physics.

Exactly. This game defies the laws of physics. That's what makes the game fun.

 

[maxpower1227]

Oh wow. I can't believe you're bringing this up. *deep breath*

By your logic, double jumping shouldnt work, and all characters should fall at the same rate.

little tip : Melee's physics aren't based on real physics.

You presented it as though you were claiming that WD was based on real physics. It's not. Even accounting for the AD as other people have pointed out. You shouldn't slide nearly as far as you do. It should not be superior to walking.

 

[Pr0g]

Because surely, 60 pages of rambling will change anything.



Not.

First of all, you're not at all funny by creating that empty space to build suspense.

Secondly, what's the point of signing up to a message board if you don't get to have long winded discussions about things you can't change?

 

[WhiteZER0]

im sure that they detected the wave dash in the testing of melee....... but they didnt know for sure that it could be used the way we use it now. IMO they just said "hey look the character dashes after lading.. nice, well lets go on."

And im very sure of it.

I'm sorry, but you have NO way to prove that. Not flaming, just saying, you have NO PROOF. No proof, no point.

I quit this thread, no matter how devoid of swearwords my post is, or how humerous / logical the points I make are, it ALWAYS ends up with me getting infractions.

The ignorant people in this thread just aren't worth it. Mookie, you're friggin' epic. Keep it up, ill just read your posts rather than making my own.

One of the few positive things I've heard coming from Dylan (and no, I'm not calling you a terrible person XD I've just always seen you argueing your point... though I must say, as much as people flame you/misunderstand you, you USUALLY stay calm about it. For that, you get a golden star XD)


I could care LESS about wavedashing. No offence to all you hardcore players, but it IS a glitch, it's a glitch in the physics system. The game is tricked into thinking that the character is still standing, when they're really moving. Now, I'm not saying it's BAD to use, but it is a glitch, no matter how you look at it. And boycotting a game just seems really childish... no offence to you hardcore gamers, once again XD But I'm not telling you to stop playing! Go ahead, go rot your brains out with Melee XD (and no, that' snot a flame, take it as not so funny humour XD)

 

[Pr0g]

You presented it as though you were claiming that WD was based on real physics. It's not. Even accounting for the AD as other people have pointed out. You shouldn't slide nearly as far as you do. It should not be superior to walking.

Nobody ever presented it as though Melee uses real physics. You just decided to read it that way because you probably have a learning disability, or something. Everybody was clearly talking about wave dashing in terms of Melee's own physics.

 

[Takeshi245]

You presented it as though you were claiming that WD was based on real physics. It's not. Even accounting for the AD as other people have pointed out. You shouldn't slide nearly as far as you do. It should not be superior to walking.

Dylan was talking about how the physics engine works, not how it is to real physics. If he thought that this was based on real physics, chances are he wouldn't have responded to you about the "double-jumping and characters falling at the same rate" post he did.

 

[Pr0g]

I'm sorry, but you have NO way to prove that. Not flaming, just saying, you have NO PROOF. No proof, no point.




One of the few positive things I've heard coming from Dylan (and no, I'm not calling you a terrible person XD I've just always seen you argueing your point... though I must say, as much as people flame you/misunderstand you, you USUALLY stay calm about it. For that, you get a golden star XD)


I could care LESS about wavedashing. No offence to all you hardcore players, but it IS a glitch, it's a glitch in the physics system. The game is tricked into thinking that the character is still standing, when they're really moving. Now, I'm not saying it's BAD to use, but it is a glitch, no matter how you look at it. And boycotting a game just seems really childish... no offence to you hardcore gamers, once again XD But I'm not telling you to stop playing! Go ahead, go rot your brains out with Melee XD (and no, that' snot a flame, take it as not so funny humour XD)

But you're wrong about the glitch.. That's the point. It's not a glitch. It's a natural side effect of two other natural elements of the game; air dodging and forward momentum.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

You presented it as though you were claiming that WD was based on real physics. It's not.

Where? I posted this :

Defy the game's physics? Um traction plus horizontal momentum = slide. Notice how when luigi stops running.. he .. uh.. slides? or when you hit luigi and he is shielding he slides...

why? Luigi has the lowest traction and therefor the best wavedash. It makes PERFECT sense. Crouch cancelling makes about as much sense as wding

Do NOT put words in my mouth or try to pertend there was some different context inside my post, I clearly said ''The game's'' before I wrote physics. Therefore the content of my post is inherently about the physics in super smash brothers, not in the real world.

You shouldn't slide nearly as far as you do. It should not be superior to walking.

Really? Link and Bowser have killer wavedashes now? NO. The wavedash varies in legnth based on the traction of the character airdodging diagonally into the ground based on the physics of the game.

''should or should not'' is just your personal opinion, you can't back it up with a proper example from the game, or logic.

 

[maxpower1227]

So you contend that the game's physics actually INTENDED for players to slide parallel to the ground? That's interesting.

 

[Pr0g]

As stated previously, the intentions of the games creators and the subsequent outcome are very distinct things. They exist independently from each other.

 

[maxpower1227]

Ok. It's still a violation/exploitation of the game's physics engine. If the game's physics engine had intended for that kind of movement, you would slide parallel to the ground any time you landed with horizontal momentum, independent of any button presses.

 

[Takeshi245]

So you contend that the game's physics actually INTENDED for players to slide parallel to the ground? That's interesting.

Well...yeah. You've seen it, do you not? Chances are you're going to see it again in Brawl.

 

[Pr0g]

Ok. It's still a violation/exploitation of the game's physics engine. If the game's physics engine had intended for that kind of movement, you would slide parallel to the ground any time you landed with horizontal momentum, independent of any button presses.

But the only time you land with that specific kind of horizontal momentum is when you air dodge into the ground.

 

[psicicle]

ooh pwned.

And why the ... why should it not be superior to walking (even though that is character dependent)? Should you take out shorthop because sometimes it's superior to a full jump (sometimes)?

Both of these techs are sometimes more useful than similar moves. Do you see Marth players WDing instead of walking? NOt really, since walking is better for more accurate spacing. Marth has one of the best wavedashes in the game too.

 

[maxpower1227]

But the only time you land with that specific kind of horizontal momentum is when you air dodge into the ground.

What do you mean that specific kind of horizontal momentum?! That makes no sense whatsoever. In fact, it's very likely possible to land with much MORE horizontal momentum without the slide.

pwned indeed.

 

[Pr0g]

What do you mean that specific kind of horizontal momentum?! That makes no sense whatsoever. In fact, it's very likely possible to land with much MORE horizontal momentum without the slide.

pwned indeed.

Wow.. you're really ignorant.

 

[DainBramaged]

So you contend that the game's physics actually INTENDED for players to slide parallel to the ground? That's interesting.

The wavedash's INCLUSION in melee may have been accidental, but it IS based on melee's physic's! When you air dodge into the ground, it produce's momentum, momentum which provide's a "push" for the character. When the character recieve's the push, (they are on ground at this point) the distance of the WD is determined by the character being used, as different characters are effected either less, or more by friction......

 

[maxpower1227]

@Pr0g:

Horizontal momentum = mass * horizontal velocity (and it's independent of vertical momentum fwiw)

So enlighten me on how there are "specific kinds" of momentum.

 

[BentoBox]

First of all, you're not at all funny by creating that empty space to build suspense.

Secondly, what's the point of signing up to a message board if you don't get to have long winded discussions about things you can't change?

First, I wasn't trying to be funny. I find this thread ********.

Secondly, you might have not noticed that SWF is much more than crappy speculation threads leading to nothing at all. I suggest you go out and take a look by yourself.

You guys have been arguing the same freaking points for a year now. Random guy #1 thinks its a glitch, Random guy #2 bashes him and cries about how sucky brawl would be without it. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Pr0g]

Difference is, guy who defends wave dashing doesn't cry. Crying is for emos and emos suck.

 

[DainBramaged]

Secondly, you might have not noticed that SWF is much more than crappy speculation threads leading to nothing at all. I suggest you go out and take a look by yourself.

You guys have been arguing the same freaking points for a year now.

That's because it's a good topic to argue over, and because more, and more poeple keep on joining. This IS smash Boards.....where you talk about smash brothers......wavedashing is PART of Smash Bros....so why wouldn't there be an "argument" over it? And it won't end until the WD is confirmed, or not implemented into Brawl...because people will always argue thier points...

Crying is for emos and emos suck.

Agreed

 

[AlcyoNite]

Difference is, guy who defends wave dashing doesn't cry. Crying is for emos and emos suck.

lol i appreciate your logic. Try:

God is love
love is blind
stevie wonder is blind
stevie wonder is GOD[?]

i agree this thread is shot
when brawl comes out, i bet u all 10 internets that WD is IN!
just remember
on December 3rd...

I CALLED IT!

 

[psicicle]

@Pr0g:

Horizontal momentum = mass * horizontal velocity (and it's independent of vertical momentum fwiw)

So enlighten me on how there are "specific kinds" of momentum.

Real world physics do not apply in Smash. For one thing, horizontal momentum is clearly affected by vertical momentum. Case in point: wavelands from a fastfall go further than wavedashes with no starting momentum.

Things like being able to change your momentum instantaneously do not apply in the real world. Smash examples include dashdancing and wavedashing back and forth and pulse walking.

The horizontal momentum in this case is also independent of mass, since airdodging gives everybody the same momentum.If weight were a factor, ganondorf should go a lot farther in his wavedash.

So basically, you whole equation and post is going about the wrong way to try to show WD's glitchiness or whatever you were arguing.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Real world physics do not apply in Smash. For one thing, horizontal momentum is clearly affected by vertical momentum. Case in point: wavelands from a fastfall go further than wavedashes with no starting momentum.

Things like being able to change your momentum instantaneously do not apply in the real world. Smash examples include dashdancing and wavedashing back and forth and pulse walking.

The horizontal momentum in this case is also independent of mass, since airdodging gives everybody the same momentum.If weight were a factor, ganondorf should go a lot farther in his wavedash.

So basically, you whole equation and post is going about the wrong way to try to show WD's glitchiness or whatever you were arguing.

Yup. plus I just realized another good point :

the same ''physics" (if you will) apply in ssb64 too, if you land from the air diagonally on a platform near the edge, even doing an aerial attack you can slide backwards off of it and you don't lag at all, I use this technique at times playing online.

When luigi has his shield attacked in ssb64 he slides along the ground aswell. Sliding has always been a part of smash and the airdodge is just portable momentum that can be activated once you jump.

 

[Takeshi245]

Yup. plus I just realized another good point :

the same ''physics" (if you will) apply in ssb64 too, if you land from the air diagonally on a platform near the edge, even doing an aerial attack you can slide backwards off of it and you don't lag at all, I use this technique at times playing online.

When luigi has his shield attacked in ssb64 he slides along the ground aswell. Sliding has always been a part of smash and the airdodge is just portable momentum that can be activated once you jump.

To me, it seems they had edge-canceling in the game and kept it in Melee as well. That's interesting new info for me.

 

[Pr0g]

Edge canceling rules.

 

[Shaeman111]

edge hopping is better! :D

 

[THK]

First, I wasn't trying to be funny. I find this thread ********.

Secondly, you might have not noticed that SWF is much more than crappy speculation threads leading to nothing at all. I suggest you go out and take a look by yourself.

You guys have been arguing the same freaking points for a year now. Random guy #1 thinks its a glitch, Random guy #2 bashes him and cries about how sucky brawl would be without it. Rinse and repeat.

VIVA LA INTERNETS!

 

[<π]

Um... wavedashing isn't realistic... but for the exact same reasons neither are double just, most up Bs, and a number of other things.

Arguing something shouldn't be in a video game because it isn't realistically possible, much less one that goes out of it's way to avoid realism, is silly...

 

[Takeshi245]

Um... wavedashing isn't realistic... but for the exact same reasons neither are double just, most up Bs, and a number of other things.

Arguing something shouldn't be in a video game because it isn't realistically possible, much less one that goes out of it's way to avoid realism, is silly...

Thank you!

 

[SSB_FANATIC]

I don't care if wavedashing is in or not, it'll probably won't be included.