Adi
Smash Lord
Meh if anything I want them to add more technical depth to the game <<
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Advanced Techniques in Brawl
- Thread starter RDK
- Start date
GreenKirby
Smash Master
How many freaking time do I have say this?
JUST BECAUSE BRAWL MIGHT NOT HAVE WAVEDASHING DOESN'T MEAN BRAWL WILL SUCK.
Did SSB64 suck?
Did Melee before wavedashing was discovered sucked?
I swear, some 'pros' are just so dense
JUST BECAUSE BRAWL MIGHT NOT HAVE WAVEDASHING DOESN'T MEAN BRAWL WILL SUCK.
Did SSB64 suck?
Did Melee before wavedashing was discovered sucked?
I swear, some 'pros' are just so dense
who says it?
Dylan_Tnga
Smash Master
lol are you obsessed with me or something? Every post you make is either about me, or trying to subtly insult me.
Yeah I said brawl would suck without wavedashing, and I stand by it. But with the inclusion of the airdodge and the fact that its been proven that characters slide along the ground for various reasons (see gifs in wavedash thread) I really doubt it'll be taken out at this point.
I was much more nervous when I just watched the trailers, and figured that scrubs might have influenced the design of the game but thats just plain paranoia.
Realize though that although I consider wavedashing to be a very good technique, this does not by relation mean it is the only technique that I use or that I put it on some kind of godly pedastle about all other techniques..
Id rather have any of these not removed than have wavedashing not removed :
Jump cancelled grabs
Crouch Cancelling and its various applications
Short hopping
L cancelling
TECHING
airdodging as it is used in the air (mostly because I play CF and up b recovery makes me sad)
Because without any one of them Brawl would suck. I talked a lot about the wavedash because I thought it might be gone but now im pretty confident itll make a comeback
GreenKirby
Smash Master
Here's what would happen if only the pros were given the voice:
Only 5 characters: Shiek, Marth, Falco, Fox, Peach
Only Final Destination
No items
No single player
No anything decent except advance moves
Only 5 characters: Shiek, Marth, Falco, Fox, Peach
Only Final Destination
No items
No single player
No anything decent except advance moves
Note: the below is said by someone who WD consistently and effectively and has been doing so for a couple years now. Heck one of my mains is Luigi and one of my secondaries is IC's)
WD is an anomaly in Smash. Smash is a game that is NOT about memorizing button combonation. It is a game that tries to force it's players to think beyond how to do special moves and more on how to put incredibly simply moves together in a way to be effective. WD is the only exception to this; A move that can be achieved only by performing an unatural combonation of buttons with the correct timing. It just doesn't fit into the game. I think that is why there is a strong possibility that it could and perhaps should be removed. This has nothing to do with my personal opinions of it, simply what would make sense.
What I hope they do is remove wave dashing but keep wave landing. Easily achieved by only allowing airdodging within 70 or 80 degrees of the direction of your momentum or forcing you to be in the air, rather than in the jump animation, to air dodge. Wavelanding is like teching, wall jumping or l-canceling to me. It is a constant in the game that correct timing when you come into contact with the level causes increased mobility and speed. That is the nature of the game. and something that they WANTED to be in smash, whether or not they wanted wavelanding to be in it.
WD is an anomaly in Smash. Smash is a game that is NOT about memorizing button combonation. It is a game that tries to force it's players to think beyond how to do special moves and more on how to put incredibly simply moves together in a way to be effective. WD is the only exception to this; A move that can be achieved only by performing an unatural combonation of buttons with the correct timing. It just doesn't fit into the game. I think that is why there is a strong possibility that it could and perhaps should be removed. This has nothing to do with my personal opinions of it, simply what would make sense.
What I hope they do is remove wave dashing but keep wave landing. Easily achieved by only allowing airdodging within 70 or 80 degrees of the direction of your momentum or forcing you to be in the air, rather than in the jump animation, to air dodge. Wavelanding is like teching, wall jumping or l-canceling to me. It is a constant in the game that correct timing when you come into contact with the level causes increased mobility and speed. That is the nature of the game. and something that they WANTED to be in smash, whether or not they wanted wavelanding to be in it.
Dylan_Tnga
Smash Master
Lol you're a ****ing idiot. and what's an ''advance move'' Would that mean were people like Chudat Pc chris, Phanna mint, etc etc in charge of the tournament scene that...
Neutral jabs wouldnt be uses? Theyre easy afterall
smash attacks are very basic, I dont see them being used by those rules
same will fulljumping, shielding, rolling, and shooting lasers. All too easy.
Yeah, try thinking next time.
PrettyGoodYear
Smash Lord
Brawl will not suck if the WD is removed.
NintendoWarrior
Smash Lord
I think some people are forgetting this is just a game to be played for fun. It's amazing how serious some of you are.
No. A glitch is when a program fails to behave in the expected manner in a given situation. If you asked the devs (before the game shipped) what would happen if you airdodged at an angle into the ground on one of the first couple frames in which your characters is considered airborne, he would describe wavedashing to you. A glitch refers only to the behavior of a piece of software.
If you extend the meaning of 'glitch' to every possibile tactic that the developers hadn't planned, Smash would be packed with glitches. Did the devs think of shine spiking? Must be a glitch. Did the devs think of Samus's Dreamland recovery or Link's bomb recovery? Must be glitches as well.
No, people labeling Wavedash "Glitch" are actually stifling intelligent discussion. You can call it an "unfair tactic" or "unintended tactic," perhaps, but it's not a glitch.
GreenKirby
Smash Master
And learn to detect sarcasmLol you're a ****ing idiot. and what's an ''advance move'' Would that mean were people like Chudat Pc chris, Phanna mint, etc etc in charge of the tournament scene that...
Neutral jabs wouldnt be uses? Theyre easy afterall
smash attacks are very basic, I dont see them being used by those rules
same will fulljumping, shielding, rolling, and shooting lasers. All too easy.
Yeah, try thinking next time.
zerosin
Smash Apprentice
Adi
Smash Lord
Woah, when did I ever say I want anything to replace wavedash as far as mobility is concerned O.O. I'm just saying that one of the reason's top tier characters are top tier is because they have a level of technical depth that allows them to adapt and create strategies for every different situation, whether it be offense or defense. Mewtwo doesn't really have any hard technical manuevers, and as a result he lacks little depth.
chiyo-chan' dad
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
- Messages
- 739
I hope wavedash is still in it i've just learn how to do it.
Dylan_Tnga
Smash Master
Maybe the reason Im so serious about this game is because I enjoy it so much that I talk about it / play it every day? Perhaps my enjoyment of this game fuels my desire to master it and to be better than anyone else at it.
everyone has fun playing smash, especially competitive smashers because they have tournaments and smashfests, its a great way to make friends, a bad way to get laid, and some of the best laughs you can have.
I love smash
*hits self in head*greenkirby said:
I hate that about the internets. But my sarcasm has gone missed before in this forum so I know how annoying my post must have been.
Full appologies for n00by missing of your sarcasm
Gargomon251
Smash Journeyman
you, sir, are the winner of this thread.
greenblob
Smash Lord
If the Melee team didn't want memorization, timing, and unnaturalness, why did they keep Z-canceling (now known as L-canceling) in?
maxpower1227
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2007
- Messages
- 1,443
Give this man a freaking medal.
Vampirekain
Smash Journeyman
Z-L canceling is nothing unnatural! It's just a lil something to fasten the pace of the game and sort the newbs from the pros.
On the other hand WD is not.And I must say nothing else 'cause I am fully covered by the man named after a very funny movie...Jumanji!!
On the other hand WD is not.And I must say nothing else 'cause I am fully covered by the man named after a very funny movie...Jumanji!!
greenblob
Smash Lord
Well, consider the fact that Z-canceling is a downright glitch while wavedashing is a mere exploit, just like edge-canceling, SHFFL, JC, etc.
zerosin
Smash Apprentice
So, should all the glitches and exploits be fixed? Should the glitches just get the shaft? I think abolishing wavedashing would be extremely minor compared to killing something like L-canceling. Wavedashing is, like every technique, something we choose to use or not to use. But, knowing just how to wavedash is pretty useless if you don't know a lot of other techniques. You can overshadow wavedashing with a lot of other things.
I'm not an expert. I don't compete in tourneys or anything, but my friends and I play pretty seriously. Wavedashing is nice, but I only use it for waveshining and sometimes just a little with Marth. It isn't even that huge a factor in my mindgames. I agree with Jumanji: I could go without WDing, but keeping wavelanding would be a lot better. I waveland a lot on platform stages; simply put, it's very helpful in mindgames. Is there really much of a difference? There are very slight differences, if anything.
I leave everything up to Sakurai. As long as I can still dash-dance, SHFFL, shield grab, etc., wavedashing is the last thing I could care about.
Wow, this is one crappy paragraph...
I'm not an expert. I don't compete in tourneys or anything, but my friends and I play pretty seriously. Wavedashing is nice, but I only use it for waveshining and sometimes just a little with Marth. It isn't even that huge a factor in my mindgames. I agree with Jumanji: I could go without WDing, but keeping wavelanding would be a lot better. I waveland a lot on platform stages; simply put, it's very helpful in mindgames. Is there really much of a difference? There are very slight differences, if anything.
I leave everything up to Sakurai. As long as I can still dash-dance, SHFFL, shield grab, etc., wavedashing is the last thing I could care about.
Wow, this is one crappy paragraph...
Que original pokemon theme song...
slikvik
Smash Master
quoted for truth. for some reason people fail to understand this
The Hypnotist
Smash Lord
QFT as well.
I can't wait until Brawl comes out. Then once wavedashing is in Brawl these newbs won't be able to call it a glitch any more, they'll just have to deal with it (which shouldn't be a problem, because wavedashing is sooooo broken~)!
I can't wait until Brawl comes out. Then once wavedashing is in Brawl these newbs won't be able to call it a glitch any more, they'll just have to deal with it (which shouldn't be a problem, because wavedashing is sooooo broken~)!
greenblob
Smash Lord
Actually, noobs will still complain. Snaking was in Mario Kart since MK64 and noobs are still crying about it.
Gypsy Lee
Smash Champion
Why are so many people concerned about wavedashing being in Brawl? I mean, it's not THAT important. It's basically just a super fast roll. The game won't change that much with the exclusion of it, it'll just be a tad bit slower on the competitive level.
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
This man speaks the trooof..
And it is more than a roll, although it looks as if they are beefing up the rolls a LOT, maybe even to make people think wavedashing is useless
But, I hope they leave it in because the people that think it is cheating can just play without it, getting it removed will help no one but the scrubs, while if it is still in they can just not use it...
Really people
The Hypnotist
Smash Lord
Since when can you roll off the stage to grabe to edge, or "rollland", or roll into s smash attack.
Wavedash > Roll
Period.
Darkfur
Abbey Recorder
Not to mention wavedashing doesn't make you face the opposite direction if you wavedash forward...
Gaudion
Smash Apprentice
I would present the argument that wavedashing destroys the natural balance of the game, but you could also in turn present the argument that wavedashing doesn't neccesarily hurt the balance, it just alters it. And that's a perfectly valid avenue of thought, I'm not denying it or arguing with it. I suppose, all things considered, that point is largely irrelevant.
I personally hope that wavedashing has been removed from the game. Even though I had to learn it, I never liked it, and still don't to this day. It won't keep me from playing the game if it comes back, but I will certainly be disappointed.
I personally hope that wavedashing has been removed from the game. Even though I had to learn it, I never liked it, and still don't to this day. It won't keep me from playing the game if it comes back, but I will certainly be disappointed.
Well actually rolls are useful for when you need invinicility frames, like getting behind someone trapping you in one of those rapid jab things or if your wavedash (ganon) is really bad.
greenblob
Smash Lord
Not necessarily. The WD and the roll have different applications.
Wavedashing is basically moving while standing. You could kinda call it a faster walk with a few extra perks. The only connection with rolling is the ability to do it out of a shield.
I wonder whether this argument existed between SSB and SSBM, except with Z-canceling.
Wavedashing is basically moving while standing. You could kinda call it a faster walk with a few extra perks. The only connection with rolling is the ability to do it out of a shield.
I wonder whether this argument existed between SSB and SSBM, except with Z-canceling.
The Hypnotist
Smash Lord
Well the point is the WD is very essential, and you can't just compare t to a roll. Since when have you seen Chu Dat just "roll around".
Wavedashing is a neat mechanic that adds another level to the game, but, and I hold this opinion for any fighting game technique, it should be easy to do. The within-one-frame timing that differs between characters required for wavedashes in Melee serves only to create an artificial barrier to entry into higher level play and impede players' motivation to improve.In my opinion, this goes against the easy-to-learn, hard-to-master design philosophy that the rest of the game exudes.
Like many of you here say, the ability to execute advanced techniques doesn't guarantee victory. You have to be able to use them well, through mind games and other such methods, which is the very definition of easy-to-learn, hard-to-master.
Sorry, that was kind of longwinded, but you get what I'm saying, right?
Like many of you here say, the ability to execute advanced techniques doesn't guarantee victory. You have to be able to use them well, through mind games and other such methods, which is the very definition of easy-to-learn, hard-to-master.
Sorry, that was kind of longwinded, but you get what I'm saying, right?
zerosin
Smash Apprentice
If you think about it, though, it is pretty easy to do; it's hard to master with so many different characters. In my case, I play just about everybody. If I can wavedash with Fox (for example), I have an easier time wavedashing with about seven other characters (e.g. Samus, Mario, Marth, to name a few). If I can wavedash with Falco, I find it easier to wavedash with another few (e.g. Ganondorf and Link being the big ones).
The concept is incredibly easy to understand and, with about an hour's practice or less, it's pretty easy-to-do. It's hard to master for some characters because of traction, weight, jump animation, and even the plethora of strategies WDing opens (e.g. waveshining).
However, I'm not trying to say you're a sucky player (I am myself, to tell the truth). I just don't think that it is a barrier to higher level play. It does add and disturb some balance though, as put by Gaudion.