Active Player Thread: Ones who does not have Triforce can't go in

[Judo777]

I try to avoid autopilot at all costs. Sheik can't afford to autopilot (probably one of the reasons shes so hard to play). Um idk really know what to focus on.

 

[phi1ny3]

I picked up sheik so that I could be more careful with each decision, autopilot was a big problem in the past, I think Sheik has helped me make every move count.

 

[Renki]

I've been meaning to ask in general what do u guys focus on when playing Sheik. Like I can;t seem to help auto-piloting when i play so i thought it might help if I knew what I should be focusing on at least.

Careful spacing and reacting to opponents aerial habits and landings to cover their options accordingly. The latter is moreso something I learned from Ed. The former is from <3.

I'm a Sheik baby born from those two. Not even gonna lie, lmao.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

??? kirby is not that bad for sheik wtf LMAO

L2P

 

[iLight]

yeah kirby is really not that bad, sure they get an early combo on you but that's it, otherwise you are like 10 million times faster than them and their moves are pretty super fricken easy to predict

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

light = sexiest sheik vs diddy

 

[iLight]

too bad i can't win vs gnes though =/

 

[Abel1994]

I hjust played 10+ matches me vs friend and I was sheik 80% and zelda 20% and he didnt win once lol

he rage turned off his wii xD

 

[Judo777]

yeah kirby is really not that bad, sure they get an early combo on you but that's it, otherwise you are like 10 million times faster than them and their moves are pretty super fricken easy to predict

Yea bair is super easy to predict, now if we only had a safe way of actually punishing it. Needles would be except he has 6 jumps so a good kirby shouldn't be getting hit very often.

NEO thats not a very fair claim considering all the kirbys you play don't know the sheik MU.........

 

[sheikamaru]

too bad i can't win vs gnes though =/

I'll beat gnes for you in your place... one day. I watch that match so many times and I'm like damn dude lol sexy match nonetheless

I hjust played 10+ matches me vs friend and I was sheik 80% and zelda 20% and he didnt win once lol

he rage turned off his wii xD

I've had that happen to me before lol

Yea bair is super easy to predict, now if we only had a safe way of actually punishing it. Needles would be except he has 6 jumps so a good kirby shouldn't be getting hit very often.

NEO thats not a very fair claim considering all the kirbys you play don't know the sheik MU.........

You could try retreating nairs after he bairs though or time his jumps with a powersheild to nair or try to dash attack when he lands

 

[iLight]

i think i punish bair with fair/grab depending on their response when i powershield you should be able to punish them when they start their jump animation/land/if you get too close and can grab

 

[sheikamaru]

Hey... light. Any chance of you going to austin for hom2?

 

[iLight]

I want to, but I can't drive for a few more months because I had a seizure 2 months ago, but if anyone else from my group goes or wants to go I'll probably be heading out there at least for the actual tournament day.

 

[Judo777]

i think i punish bair with fair/grab depending on their response when i powershield you should be able to punish them when they start their jump animation/land/if you get too close and can grab

So you first have to powershield the bair, then you have to run in, then you have to guess whether they are going to jump again, grab, or shield, and punish accordingly? That sounds like a 33% guessing game AFTER you powershield a bair. That sounds pretty terrible when we lose trades.

 

[sheikamaru]

Cool. Sorry to hear about the seizures though that's not cool. If you're able to come with dudes from college station that's raw too

 

[iLight]

So you first have to powershield the bair, then you have to run in, then you have to guess whether they are going to jump again, grab, or shield, and punish accordingly? That sounds like a 33% guessing game AFTER you powershield a bair. That sounds pretty terrible when we lose trades.

idk its not extremely difficult to react to their movements and also if you get punished once you add that to your knowledge of what this particular player likes to do depending on their level of play it becomes really easy

 

[<π]

I knew I wasn't crazy about this kirby thing.

@
bair
when you suspect a landing dash in sheild + grab.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

Neo have u ever beaten chudat with Sheik?

If so are there vids?

"when u think Kirby s going to land" Unless he blows all 6 of his midair jumps when u think hes going to land isn't a good risk/reward ratio. If you throw up your shield preemptively you put yourself in a losing situation. You either stay in Shield and weaken your shield, you drop it to go to punish and actually eat a bair, or roll away to reset the position, or you could roll in and hope he doesn't punish it.

Also how do we kill Kirby? I personally dislike every matchup that involves reading people's jump to land tipper u-smashes... cause people who know the MU won't jump in your tipper u-smash range, so that leaves what d-smash on stage? Or a fair/bair/nair offstage? Fighting a character who already beats us in the air offstage...lol. By the time you get Kirby within kill range of d-smash (unless you're just a crapload better of a player than they are) you'll be in kill range of f-smash... only difference is that at kill percents Kirby doesn't have to worry about our throw's because he flat beats us in the air, but we have to worry about his since even a stale bair is enough to knock us offstage, and offstage a stale bair is enough to get us killed.

The only Kirby's I can beat are the ones that are playing 08 wifi kirby (f-smash my shield more please), a smart patient kirby has a strong advantage over Sheik.

 

[<π]

@ what I focus on with sheik
Definitely spacing is my biggest thing I guess... I try to be efficient to every movement has purpose even if that purpose is trying to condition some responce...

But yeah baiting and punishing is what sheik is all about IMO. So learning what you can and can't punish with what is huge for us.

 

[sheikamaru]

Lol that's what we're here for :-) we'lplace first eventually lol

 

[sheikamaru]

But yea we have harder chars to worry about besides kirbs imo

 

[Judo777]

I knew I wasn't crazy about this kirby thing.

@
bair
when you suspect a landing dash in sheild + grab.

The big thing is that the kirby gets to watch you dash in and try to react even if he is wrong he doesn't get punished until he is wrong again. This kind of thing is the exact reason why luigi isn't a better character. Luigi gets a PS then gets inside NOW he gets to guess again. If he is right you take a TON of damage. If he is wrong he takes a small hit (luigi is a secret tank) and back to square one.

With kirby its the exact same scenario with bair. We get a PS (which isn't easy and PSing stuff regularly shouldn't happen too too often) then we get to dash in. NOW we get to guess again. If we are wrong WE take a big hit (a grab and a bair are big hits in that MU as are most hits for sheik). If we are right kirby takes......... about 15%........ back to square one.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

Only Matchups I think are harder than Kirby are like... ICs and MK, (and Marth afk).

I'm personally really bad at fighting both Marth and MK... I'd like to say I'm good at the ICs MU (Shoutouts to all the MI ICs that lose one of the easiest MUs in the game.) but I still respect that its a bit harder than Kirby is.

 

[Abel1994]

Alright so I have a happit of chooseing zelda half way and dieng all the time lol

anyone tell me the right time to use zelda cuz I SUCK WITH HER!

 

[iLight]

Neo have u ever beaten chudat with Sheik?

If so are there vids?

"when u think Kirby s going to land" Unless he blows all 6 of his midair jumps when u think hes going to land isn't a good risk/reward ratio. If you throw up your shield preemptively you put yourself in a losing situation. You either stay in Shield and weaken your shield, you drop it to go to punish and actually eat a bair, or roll away to reset the position, or you could roll in and hope he doesn't punish it.

Also how do we kill Kirby? I personally dislike every matchup that involves reading people's jump to land tipper u-smashes... cause people who know the MU won't jump in your tipper u-smash range, so that leaves what d-smash on stage? Or a fair/bair/nair offstage? Fighting a character who already beats us in the air offstage...lol. By the time you get Kirby within kill range of d-smash (unless you're just a crapload better of a player than they are) you'll be in kill range of f-smash... only difference is that at kill percents Kirby doesn't have to worry about our throw's because he flat beats us in the air, but we have to worry about his since even a stale bair is enough to knock us offstage, and offstage a stale bair is enough to get us killed.

The only Kirby's I can beat are the ones that are playing 08 wifi kirby (f-smash my shield more please), a smart patient kirby has a strong advantage over Sheik.

hitting people as they jump with tipper dacus is really not that hard even if they know if might be coming, people get into rhythms whether they mean to or not, and you can always predict what will happen and how they will set themselves up in most situations especially against a character with such limited mobility options as kirby

@abel go zelda when you get someone to kill percent and then knock them far enough away to transform safely

 

[Judo777]

hitting people as they jump with tipper dacus is really not that hard even if they know if might be coming, people get into rhythms whether they mean to or not, and you can always predict what will happen and how they will set themselves up in most situations especially against a character with such limited mobility options as kirby

@abel go zelda when you get someone to kill percent and then knock them far enough away to transform safely

If they know its coming and they aren't stupid they shouldn't be getting hit. People manage to avoid MUCH harder things to avoid than a DACUS for entire matches so why would it b e hard for them to avoid something easy at a specific percent. People go entire matches against IC's without getting grabbbed the whole game. And landing a grab at ANY percent is way easier than landing a DACUS.

 

[iLight]

your basically saying a character who's options in the match up mostly lay in the air, won't jump when they are a quarter to half the stage away from me, and you can dacus in the 'lag' of jumping animations quite easily b/c if they don't throw out air dodge or an aerial at the instant they jump when i'm nowhere near them, then I can punish. If i can do it easily to good metaknight players I can do it to kirby too

 

[Judo777]

your basically saying a character who's options in the match up mostly lay in the air, won't jump when they are a quarter to half the stage away from me, and you can dacus in the 'lag' of jumping animations quite easily b/c if they don't throw out air dodge or an aerial at the instant they jump when i'm nowhere near them, then I can punish. If i can do it easily to good metaknight players I can do it to kirby too

Why on earth would kirby jump when he is within DACUS range? you have to be right at min DACUS range to catch them of guard. And kirbys options DON'T mostly lie in the air. I love how people ignore how solid kirbys ground game is. Granted its not as good as ours but its not too far off. Having a good grab is a big deal.

And yea the main reason a kirby won't jump when they are a quarter of the stage away is because they know that sheiks DACUS goes that far. I catch alot of people jumping with DACUS but people that actually know the sheik MU don't get caught hardly ever because they aren't dumb enough to jump at that range.

 

[<π]

If I remember correctly kirby doesn't need to jump to with the match up. he can just walk around and use tilts.

IDK... I'd be willing to agree that killing kirby is difficult but thats just true in general for sheik not any more so for kirby, he is relatively light and despite his multiple jumps his recovery isn't all that hot.

sheik in shield isn't some terrible position against an aerial kirby... his aerial mobility and agility are terrible you can always roll out of shield with very very little fear. jump our of shield aerial are all great as well if Kirby think he can apply empty pressure by using his jumps and making bair no longer a threat.
I see bair as even less of a threat than D3's and we can work around that...

why are you comparing luigi, one of the characters who has the hardest time getting in, with sheik the character with probably the shortest opening dash animation? Sheik IMO has very little issue getting into peoples zones safely. like I said you dash in as they near the ground just as you enter bair range you sheild.

 

[sheikamaru]

It's really a guessing game when you have kirby sent flying off stage. Just a few well placed bairs and fairs and an edgeguard will seal the deal for ya

Icys ain't hard just play reeeeeealy sporadic and ice nana( lol pun)!!!

And against mk make sure you recover when sent off stage early and meorize the spacings for his dsmash and fsmash

 

[Renki]

And against mk make sure you recover when sent off stage early and meorize the spacings for his dsmash and fsmash

Fsmash and Dsmash aren't the problem, it's that godforsaken dair. =_=

 

[sheikamaru]

Their dair? Mmm yea off stage it's pretty godforsaken lolol you gotta mix up your recovery lol like come down low and if they follow you jump into them and air dodge lol just gotta be creative

 

[Juushichi]

Their dair? Mmm yea off stage it's pretty godforsaken lolol you gotta mix up your recovery lol like come down low and if they follow you jump into them and air dodge lol just gotta be creative

No. No no no no no.

Also, on this Kirby thing it seems to be made up of two parties. People who play top level Kirbies (MW/MDVA) and people who don't. I admit, Y.b.M. is a different brand of Kirby but still.

****, I even talked to him yesterday at DU about it. Essentially he said offhandedly that Sheik was easy. And playing against even lesser Kirbies makes me agree.

 

[Judo777]

If I remember correctly kirby doesn't need to jump to with the match up. he can just walk around and use tilts.

IDK... I'd be willing to agree that killing kirby is difficult but thats just true in general for sheik not any more so for kirby, he is relatively light and despite his multiple jumps his recovery isn't all that hot.

sheik in shield isn't some terrible position against an aerial kirby... his aerial mobility and agility are terrible you can always roll out of shield with very very little fear. jump our of shield aerial are all great as well if Kirby think he can apply empty pressure by using his jumps and making bair no longer a threat.
I see bair as even less of a threat than D3's and we can work around that...

why are you comparing luigi, one of the characters who has the hardest time getting in, with sheik the character with probably the shortest opening dash animation? Sheik IMO has very little issue getting into peoples zones safely. like I said you dash in as they near the ground just as you enter bair range you sheild.

I am only comparing sheik and luigi in this specific MU where getting in safely is an issue. Granted being in shield in not a safe spot in this game because you can't attack OoS quickly. And you are still misunderstanding. If you roll away from an aerial kirby you are no longer near kirby which doesn't hurt kirby at all. I feel like alot of people don't recognize that kirby is one of the few characters that has no issues staying out of ur reach (granted I'm referring to safety involved) the whole game.

I have seen many kirby matches go to time and kirby is slow as hell. Its because speed is not a factor hardly at all. It's simple a matter of kirby can stay in the air AND stay safe for a very long time. D3 cannot come anywhere close to that and that is why D3 isn't a problem for us. D3 is also fat and even slower in the air so he has a hard time dealing with needles.

More so the MU feels like one where sheik can do stuff provided kirby isn't doing anything, which is a problem. Also kirby is very good at hanging around in our diagnol space which is a space sheik has a hard time getting too because sheik movement is very axial. We move on the ground fast and straight up fast but diagnols sheik can't get nto very well. And kirby can just hang in there all day and any time we even act like we are doing something he can throw a bair that is completely safe.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

Icys ain't hard just play reeeeeealy sporadic and ice nana( lol pun)!!!

Good luck beating an ICs that knows how to frame trap.

 

[phi1ny3]

I'm having a problem getting in Lucario lol. It's difficult when the shoes on the other foot and you somehow have to punish his approaches with something besides needles, I never realized how useful those disjoints are against characters like Sheik until I played against one, and the fact that everything lasts foreeeeever is difficult.

I don't have a snake problem anymore though, that's good

lol when I realized that you could ftilt MK out of dsmash almost all the time it made the MU easier against bad MKs I haven't tried against better ones though.

Oh, chain is really good against Olimar for some odd reason, I was able to stop even purple pikmin attacks and smashes, as well as purple sideB (and of course any other pikmin that were thrown in died), and he could only get away with a grab if he perfect shielded whereas he often took like 30-50% from a chain sweep lol. He couldn't even get away with aerials, it was pretty lulzy. Then again, I've noticed that low commitment/high safety transcendent stuff works unusually well against Olimar, Falco and Wolf laser comes to mind.

@Juushichi: That doesn't explain why NEO thinks it's easy though, considering he's MD/VA.

 

[Zankoku]

Lucario isn't that difficult. Sure, you might have trouble with disjoints, until you realize what kind of a character you are and stop trying to play like you can beat pure range.

 

[iLight]

good lucario is hard to beat for a number of reasons in my opinion

1. Sheik has difficulty killing
2. Lucario get's stronger at higher percents
3. Sheik must approach to kill usually
4. Lucario does not have to approach to apply pressure

there are others but i have made my general point lucario has a surprising amount of mobility just watch Trela from texas play lucario I lost to him at MLG dallas it was really tough to read him

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Omg!!! Finally done with this done semester!!!

You'll be seeing me a tad more now.

As far as Lucario, I really don't see him as that bad but then again, I usually play him with Zelda or in combo.

 

[sheikamaru]

So.. ally is confirmed for hom2. And I'm going to mm him if he accepts.