Active Player Thread: Ones who does not have Triforce can't go in

[sheikamaru]

I don't practice hard core either but like I know enough to where I don't place last in tournys

 

[Judo777]

How do you know you yourself aren't playing the MU wrong? I've played Chu's kirby a while ago as Shielda and I lost barely, SDing.

YBM's good, but he's no Chu, and doesn't seem to have any consistency as far as results are concerned. I'd love to play YBM as Sheik though.

How long ago did you play Chu? And no consistency as far as results go? He like never ever places outside of top 5. I might be playing the MU wrong but that doesn't change the fact that Chu doesn't know the MU. I mean how could he what sheik does he play.

And if you didn't beat his kirby then I don't see how you can call me on the MU, especially since it sounds like you haven't played it any time recently (maybe not even this year based on what I have heard about Chu not playing recently).

 

[#HBC | Scary]

NEO, why's you avatar so ****??? Also, how's your Zelda coming along?

I still make some input errors from time to time but I think I got it all set at last.

For the kirby MU, I've realized that we should probably play kinda campy. It seems to work very well. NEO, can you describe what exactly you used against Chu? I have a feeling I know but just wanna be sure.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

How long ago did you play Chu? And no consistency as far as results go? He like never ever places outside of top 5. I might be playing the MU wrong but that doesn't change the fact that Chu doesn't know the MU. I mean how could he what sheik does he play.

And if you didn't beat his kirby then I don't see how you can call me on the MU, especially since it sounds like you haven't played it any time recently (maybe not even this year based on what I have heard about Chu not playing recently).

comparison of available tools character to character should make it blatantly obvious that you're overexaggerating. and YBM hasn't beaten anyone of noteriety in a while? top 5 locally? so what? his resume isn't even a fraction of chus past or present chu is just overall a much more solid player

study more

edit: @ scary, just play the MU not leading off and staying on the ground, forcing kirby to get into the habit of shielding is mainly what you want to do because he isn't difficult to dodge

ftilt > wait

do nothing > wait LOL

you lose the MU overcomplicating it and ****

you can duck things like rising f-air and b-air and essentially just force kirby to play an even more predictable game than he is in the first place, just make sure ur not jumping too much so you're forced to avoid him on landing because that's the only area he's really threatening is chasing your landing

 

[#HBC | Scary]

That's what I figured, if anything, it may be easy to be deceived by the amount of range in some of kirby's attacks.

Crouching is actually really good advice and it also makes us harder to hit hard with Kirby's Bair.

 

[sheikamaru]

and the tension rises a bit

 

[choknater]

i will always respeck neo

listen to the man!!

 

[phi1ny3]

Not that difficult != easy

Not that difficult = a counter for the overexaggeration occuring about the MU

Also to the Sheik boards - Upon recently coming back to the smash scene I can't stress how important it is to PRACTICE using your character to the point where you don't make input mistakes. You guys seem to spend a lot of time (too much, in my opinion) discussing things instead of honing your skills to get a product out of your knowledge. As is an issue with the Marth boards, lots of theorycraft, very little practice. I plan to step up my Sheik training in the near future and I advise you all to do the same.

Haha yeah, I didn't exactly mean for it to sound like "NEO says we counter kirby" rofl

XD

but yeah, when I played t1mmy's Kirby (mind you, not as good as the above mentioned, but sufficient enough imo considering I'm sure he plays his brother's pocket sheik sometimes) I end up having to pace and move a lot rofl and use needles a ton.

 

[iLight]

i almost never use needles for anything other than punishing when i cross them up or when someone get's up on stage, that being said I doubt I would use needles much in a matchup with a character who is going to spend 90% of his time in the air unless i'm trying to take one of his jumps while he's off stage in which case I'll still probably just chase

 

[choknater]

haha im the opposite i guess

though i do like rushing down

i do like making winning less stressful as well

so if im fighting ddd, marth, kirby, meta, or other good chars w/o projectiles

i have no qualms with running away or throwing/smashing my opponent, then fully charging needles at every opportunity

 

[phi1ny3]

Hehe, it's all a matter of preference, characters like Sheik and Lucario allow for divergence of playstyles like this

I used to hate needle camping until I started learning how to be more mobile with it, now I can camp and still manage to be pretty aggro, aerial lagless needles are a great mixup to my approach/punish game, and I use that against kirby, I also do run -> pivot needles in response to bair sometimes and it works fairly well

 

[choknater]

good job haha those are the best needle tactics

surprising people with run away pivot fully charged needles since 2008 baby. still works and probably always will.

 

[Judo777]

comparison of available tools character to character should make it blatantly obvious that you're overexaggerating. and YBM hasn't beaten anyone of noteriety in a while? top 5 locally? so what? his resume isn't even a fraction of chus past or present chu is just overall a much more solid player

study more

edit: @ scary, just play the MU not leading off and staying on the ground, forcing kirby to get into the habit of shielding is mainly what you want to do because he isn't difficult to dodge

ftilt > wait

do nothing > wait LOL

you lose the MU overcomplicating it and ****

you can duck things like rising f-air and b-air and essentially just force kirby to play an even more predictable game than he is in the first place, just make sure ur not jumping too much so you're forced to avoid him on landing because that's the only area he's really threatening is chasing your landing

I'm pretty sure ybm beat shugo not too too long ago. At least thats what I heard. Also he beats Kel from time to time. I really don't see how you can compare people who are never at the same tournaments especially when regions don;t meet up too often.

Comparison of tools? Alright I'll bite. Kirbys frame data isn't too far behind ours. His priority on just about all of his moves beats ours. His airspeed is a little slower than ours. His ground speed is a decent amount less. His grab outranges ours. His damage output is about the same as our and even more at out of grabs (simply because we only get like 2 ftilts max on kirby and he doesn't have to think on follow ups cause bair is safe off the ground considering risk reward).

He easily out kills us. His ground game is about the same as ours. His air game beats ours flat out. Our ranged game beats his easily (cause he has none unless ofc he gets needles then it is closer). We don't have any of our typical gimmicks like GR stuff. His recovery is fairly safe against us. Our recovery is not very safe vs him. Our OoS options are about equal (his bair is just an all purpose OoS.

I don't think we win that comparison at all.

Not to mention sheik isn't capable of exploiting one of kirbys main disadvantages, his weight.

This however is not considering theory crafted tactics i understand but this is simply a comparison of tools.

 

[choknater]

um i think sheik's most important tool against kirby is her horizontal ground speed. kirby's doesn't really compare, so that's the main thing we gotta abuse.

 

[iLight]

um i think sheik's most important tool against kirby is her horizontal ground speed. kirby's doesn't really compare, so that's the main thing we gotta abuse.

what other speed would we be talking abusing about lol especially since alot of kirby's moves might be slower they still stuff ours so we have to out pace him

 

[choknater]

lol alright i kno i kno

but judo is posting all this close range encounter stuff that sometimes we dont even really need to worry about if we just stay out of kirby's face sometimes

so it was mostly directed to judo

cuz if we're really doing a comparison of tools... that is sheik's most advantageous tool

 

[Judo777]

lol alright i kno i kno

but judo is posting all this close range encounter stuff that sometimes we dont even really need to worry about if we just stay out of kirby's face sometimes

so it was mostly directed to judo

cuz if we're really doing a comparison of tools... that is sheik's most advantageous tool

I was comparing all of them. I know our speed is a huge factor and some situations will rarely be seen but I'm comparing tools not theory craft. Our needles aren't a super large factor either but i mentioned em. Him having needles also isn't that important but its a tool.

 

[choknater]

ok i dont understand the diff between comparing tools and theory craft

 

[Zankoku]

That makes sense, since both are just talking about what should be based on what we know. Theorycraft is more like talking about what can happen given the information we have, while comparing tools is, well, that - a direct comparison of the attributes between two characters.

 

[sheikamaru]

Not to mention sheik isn't capable of exploiting one of kirbys main disadvantages, his weight.

Till he down b's

 

[choknater]

ok, if thats the case

i think comparing tools by themselves is really unrealistic and arbitrary if ur not considering the pace/flow of the match. frame data, hitbox size, character movement/speed.. the relevance of all those are discovered thru match experience

so an objective comparison of tools is a really elementary way to approach a match

so from EXPERIENCE

ima say that sheik can run around and throw needles at kirby all day lol. block bairs, run in, shield, grab kirby a lot. get under and uair

stuff like that

 

[Judo777]

ok, if thats the case

i think comparing tools by themselves is really unrealistic and arbitrary if ur not considering the pace/flow of the match. frame data, hitbox size, character movement/speed.. the relevance of all those are discovered thru match experience

so an objective comparison of tools is a really elementary way to approach a match

so from EXPERIENCE

ima say that sheik can run around and throw needles at kirby all day lol. block bairs, run in, shield, grab kirby a lot. get under and uair

stuff like that

Oh well my EXPERIENCE leads me to believe that kirby ***** us just as hard because of his repetative stratgeies being viable while we have to trick em to hit. I play 3 kirbys relatively regularly and it sways the match soo far in their favor (even when i win).

 

[choknater]

haha alright, i'll take ur word for it then

the analysis just seemed a little janky

 

[iLight]

Not to mention sheik isn't capable of exploiting one of kirbys main disadvantages, his weight.

is up-smash or fresh u-air just garbage for killing now?

and i'd like to point out you have to sweet spot on both of them to abuse his weight

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

I'm pretty sure ybm beat shugo not too too long ago. At least thats what I heard. Also he beats Kel from time to time. I really don't see how you can compare people who are never at the same tournaments especially when regions don;t meet up too often.

Comparison of tools? Alright I'll bite. Kirbys frame data isn't too far behind ours. His priority on just about all of his moves beats ours. His airspeed is a little slower than ours. His ground speed is a decent amount less. His grab outranges ours. His damage output is about the same as our and even more at out of grabs (simply because we only get like 2 ftilts max on kirby and he doesn't have to think on follow ups cause bair is safe off the ground considering risk reward).

He easily out kills us. His ground game is about the same as ours. His air game beats ours flat out. Our ranged game beats his easily (cause he has none unless ofc he gets needles then it is closer). We don't have any of our typical gimmicks like GR stuff. His recovery is fairly safe against us. Our recovery is not very safe vs him. Our OoS options are about equal (his bair is just an all purpose OoS.

I don't think we win that comparison at all.

Not to mention sheik isn't capable of exploiting one of kirbys main disadvantages, his weight.

This however is not considering theory crafted tactics i understand but this is simply a comparison of tools.

You assumed "Chu doesn't know the Sheik MU." Chu's one of the smartest to ever touch this game bruh, there aren't many MU's he doesn't know or better yet, can't figure out in the span of a set.

I could honestly care less to sit here and name drop because at the end of the day I'ma spend more time practicing and less time posting about nonsense.

 

[Judo777]

You assumed "Chu doesn't know the Sheik MU." Chu's one of the smartest to ever touch this game bruh, there aren't many MU's he doesn't know or better yet, can't figure out in the span of a set.

I could honestly care less to sit here and name drop because at the end of the day I'ma spend more time practicing and less time posting about nonsense.

If you haven't played the MU at a reasonably high level several times then you really don't know the MU. Its not corrleated with how smart or good you are. Tyrant is great and smart no doubt. Doesn't mean he knows the pika MU.

 

[Dnyce]

Yeah... you guys definitely don't know about issdi buffer grabbing, lol. none of kirby's aerials are safe on shield

 

[phi1ny3]

lol, are you talking about what I think you're talking about when you mean the issdi stuff? (Shield SDI)

 

[Dnyce]

lol, are you talking about what I think you're talking about when you mean the issdi stuff? (Shield SDI)

If it involves breaking the brawl metagame... then yes

 

[Judo777]

Yeah... you guys definitely don't know about issdi buffer grabbing, lol. none of kirby's aerials are safe on shield

yea let me get right on that.

 

[Dnyce]

yea let me get right on that.

I'll make a vid this weekend.

 

[choknater]

can u really issdi tipped fadeaway bair and grab it? that sounds godlike...

 

[Dnyce]

can u really issdi tipped fadeaway bair and grab it? that sounds godlike...

I've issdi'd through lucario during his fsmash and whiffed a grab before, lol.

 

[choknater]

wtf LOOOL!! thats epic

ok, i wanna learn it and i'd like to see vids

up till now i don't really play brawl much cuz it seems the metagame hasn't changed for years

but if this is as drastic as u say it is, i'd like to see it and try it out

i wanna shield grab snake's ftilt lol

 

[Dnyce]

Oh, by metagame changing I mean... ICs and DDD... too good. lol

I can pull up some things for fun real quick I suppose, gimme an hour...

 

[choknater]

lol

considering how much i play brawl and the way i play it...

the game to me is not a web of matchups

but rather a series of sheik matchups.

 

[phi1ny3]

Oh, by metagame changing I mean... ICs and DDD... too good. lol

I can pull up some things for fun real quick I suppose, gimme an hour...

Yeah, it's gonna be pretty stupid for those characters/grab oriented ones in general (Bowser imo will get a pretty nice boost too, albeit smaller than these characters).

 

[choknater]

ima try this against cpu's lol

do u just slam the stick while in shield stun???

 

[phi1ny3]

It's slight, otherwise you just roll iirc

 

[choknater]

hm, alright, i see.