Active Player Thread: Ones who does not have Triforce can't go in

[Zankoku]

terrible pun

4/10

 

[choknater]

LOL aw man i didnt mean to make a pun

 

[SinkingHigher]

My problem is that he just comes up with these ridiculously flashy ideas for the sake of something flashy, as if that was all that mattered, and he never proves any of his theories. To this day, I don't know if any ONE of them is real.

A small part of me appreciates that there is some life back in the sheik boards because of him, but the kind of attention he gets is always negative and always ultimately proves to have been a huge waste of time.

Meh. I'll play around with get up animations next time I play brawl and see if there's anything fruitful.

 

[choknater]

sheik's moves and stuff are pretty much stagnated, it's all been discovered. it's just a matter of figuring out matchup and situational nuances now, like how champ talked about clever 'reverse edgeguarding' in his thread

guys check out souther (snake) vs earth (sheik) on ssbbmania1's youtube channel. very recent. that's a smart and experienced sheik if i've ever seen one. i think that's what we're trying to strive for now

 

[-Mars-]

I just watched those lol.

 

[<π]

every stock he lost was a direct result of his Zelda... at least in that first match, lol. Zelda is so bad. he should have waited for jab->short->dsmash or a fresh sweet sweet bair since he wasn't using bair at all both kill well around the 180 regardless of stage position. sweet sweet bair even earlier.

I said this some where, but bair's sweet spot has a sweet spot, it doesn't deal more damage but has a considerably larger knock back just as the move come out at the tip of sheik's foot. it has higher kill potential than nair I believe. check it out.

I also mentioned nair's different hit boxes. the bent leg sends at a lower natural angle so despite less knock back it actually kills better.

 

[Zankoku]

Earth's Zelda is not so great at dealing with the Snake matchup, which is severely trickier than Sheik vs Snake to play properly. I wouldn't transform in the matchup unless you're really familiar with it.

 

[choknater]

i agree, i think going zelda is a bad move in the first place

 

[Tristan_win]

i agree, i think going zelda is a bad move in the first place

I second this motion, unless we are talking about a ice climber main who still has his two climbers.


Although if I recall correctly De3 and Dk are both counter or at least go around even with Zelda and are very fat which sheik has trouble killing off the top so at least for them in my mind it's not too far out of the question....unlike everyone else.

 

[Zankoku]

Dedede can't randomly pull instant approach/punishment on Zelda like Snake can, nor does he have even half the mobility, so he actually has something to fear against an undecayed moveset full of destruction.

DK is probably down to personal preference.

 

[East]

DK is probably down to personal preference.

Except on Yoshi's Island [Brawl] He's got tricks there that pretty much makes him invincible for half the match. It's stupid.

 

[Tristan_win]

Since we are on the subject now does anyone really think using Zelda with Sheik is a legitimate good idea outside of like Ice climbers, De3, and DK?

The only times I can see someone using Zelda with Sheik in other match ups would be if you already decayed all of sheiks kill moves AND was fighting someone you couldn't easily set up to gimp so that changing to Zelda might be profitable.

But how many characters are we talking here that you can do this to and safely transformed into Zelda and not get ***** immediately for doing so?

Like I can only think of Sonic, Yoshi, and maybe Peach. All of which are about even if that.

 

[Zankoku]

Sheik ought to be able to transform into Peach. Then she would be top tier for sure.

 

[East]

Sheik ought to be able to transform into Peach. Then she would be top tier for sure.

lol, why hasn't someone done a hack for this yet? I mean in theory, with Phantom Wings newest thing-a-ma-jig I think it's possible.

 

[Tristan_win]

haha, I wish sheik could transform into another sheik THEN she would be top tier.

I would be spamming dacus all day long, refresh my moves and then do it again, heck I would be like fox trotting with the dacus just for luls.


edit: no but serious.

 

[Miles.]

Yeah in the first set when he switched to zelda he got killed without touching souther.

 

[-Mars-]

Characters I think Zelda can land the KO move on relatively safely:

Mario
Luigi
Bowser
Yoshi
Ice Climbers
ROB(this one's stage dependent but killing ROB with Sheik is extremely difficult, I feel Zelda does better)
DDD
Charizard
Jigglypuff
Kirby


By the way....Zelda has guaranteed lightning kicks off of a trip against Zard, DDD, ROB, Yoshi and a few others I cant remember off the top of my head.

 

[choknater]

sigh landing any move with zelda in general is hard

 

[Tristan_win]

Characters I think Zelda can land the KO move on relatively safely:

Mario
Luigi
Bowser
Yoshi
Ice Climbers
ROB(this one's stage dependent but killing ROB with Sheik is extremely difficult, I feel Zelda does better)
DDD
Charizard
Jigglypuff
Kirby


By the way....Zelda has guaranteed lightning kicks off of a trip against Zard, DDD, ROB, Yoshi and a few others I cant remember off the top of my head.

...If you don't mind me asking but why Kirby and mario, both of those have great shield pressure abilities and Zelda folds so easily in such fights.

 

[Steel]

with zelda i just jump in with nair and hope for the best

 

[choknater]

zelda can spam fsmash against mario imo LOL he has like no range

but yea mario is pretty fast

 

[Tristan_win]

zelda can spam fsmash against mario imo LOL he has like no range

but yea mario is pretty fast

and Zelda does? Heck I can see mario camping Zelda with his fire ballz as he weave in and out of zelda range and when zelda whiffs one of her smash attacks go in for the combo or shield pressure.

Jesus mario mains are so much fun to fight with sheik.... Like the match up makes it look like it's ****ing melee.

edit: edited.

edit2: Oh by the way I'm going back up north for a bit starting tomorrow so I'll be able to continue with my data organization again. My job has made me it's ***** recently with schedule hours of 10am to 2pm, 2 hour break, 4pm to 8pm or later for like everyday of this week it seems.

 

[Sosuke]

I've been using Sheik more and more lately. She's fun to use.

 

[choknater]

zelda's fsmash has range hehe

 

[thexsunrosered]

This board is so dead =/

 

[stealth3654]

Except on Yoshi's Island [Brawl] He's got tricks there that pretty much makes him invincible for half the match. It's stupid.

What can DK do on this stage that makes him invincible?

 

[-Mars-]

...If you don't mind me asking but why Kirby and mario, both of those have great shield pressure abilities and Zelda folds so easily in such fights.

Well for Kirby when he gets into that kill percentage area it starts to become more and more of a risk for him to touch your shield. I mean sure his bair causes problems for Zelda but it is beaten by a running usmash. I really don't see how else he is pressuring Zelda's shield because on the ground he is outranged and taking to the air is an extreme risk for him at higher percentages.

Not only that but if she has the lead this is one of the few matchups where Zelda can force an approach with Dins Fire. Now if Kirby has the lead and your trying to land a kill move with Zelda it becomes a bigger challenge but one quick dtilt and Kirby is dead.

Oh i've traded bairs with both Kirby and Mario btw.

Same thing with Mario for the most part. I know he can camp fairly well with fireballs but getting inside of him isn't too much of a challenge. His fsmash does have insane range so i'll give him that.

I really have been under the impression for a while that both of these matchups were pretty close to even for Zelda.........are you aware of something that i'm not?

 

[East]

This board is so dead =/

So because this guy felt that it was his prerogative and he took the sweet time out of his day to tell us this, can I be a **** and report him for spam? It only seems fair. =/

What can DK do on this stage that makes him invincible?

Apparently the mechanics with his up B can be taken advantage [because of the slanted edges] so that he keeps his invulnerability frames during the attack for much longer than he normally does. At HERB, I watched a match between an good DK and a decent MK, and the first match MK won handily. DK took the MK to Yoshi's Island and 2 stocked him...

 

[Ochobobo]

By the way....Zelda has guaranteed lightning kicks off of a trip against Zard, DDD, ROB, Yoshi and a few others I cant remember off the top of my head.

It's kind of situational though. Dtilt only has a random chance of tripping, so you might find yourself dtilting a lot to try and land the trip, and then try to respond immediately when it does trip. Most people would just continue dtilting, lol

 

[Tristan_win]

Well for Kirby when he gets into that kill percentage area it starts to become more and more of a risk for him to touch your shield. I mean sure his bair causes problems for Zelda but it is beaten by a running usmash. I really don't see how else he is pressuring Zelda's shield because on the ground he is outranged and taking to the air is an extreme risk for him at higher percentages.

Not only that but if she has the lead this is one of the few matchups where Zelda can force an approach with Dins Fire. Now if Kirby has the lead and your trying to land a kill move with Zelda it becomes a bigger challenge but one quick dtilt and Kirby is dead.

Oh i've traded bairs with both Kirby and Mario btw.

Same thing with Mario for the most part. I know he can camp fairly well with fireballs but getting inside of him isn't too much of a challenge. His fsmash does have insane range so i'll give him that.

I really have been under the impression for a while that both of these matchups were pretty close to even for Zelda.........are you aware of something that i'm not?

Yeah, my Zelda is horrible.

 

[<π]

I've been playing a lot more zelda I have fewer bad things to say about her. after watch virg's zelda and playing around with her myself I can see how beast she is. you're approach options are horrible, but you do actually have decent pressure tools against taller characters.

 

[Tristan_win]

S tier for the frame advantage chart will be finished tonight and I'm going to strive to have at least half of A tier done before Saturday.

Since I didn't bring my wii I cannot test DI nor do I really want to so let's make this a bit of a community effort.We all know when Sheik usmash can kill but not with DI, let's decision what's the highest percent you seen a good player live from a fresh usmash.

Let's start with meta knight.

When we come to agreement about a said percentage then I'll add the information to my charts.

 

[East]

I talked to M2k, he said 85%

 

[Tristan_win]

Fantastic, I'll update the chart now and post the new model later on tonight.

edit: I'm assuming these are on normal stages.

 

[-Mars-]

*Sigh*

I got 5th again on Saturday. I seem to always get it down to the last stock and then lose because of Sheiks kill power.

I did beat the top player in my state who uses MK, but he said he had zero matchup experience against Sheik so that was obviously a factor.

I now think I just need more IRL matchup experience against certain characters because it seems I perform far better against MK's and Marth's than I seem to do against Sonic, ROB, Diddy, and Snake.......well actually I perform well against Snake I just hate his stage control and kill power.

I should have some vids of me losing to a good Snake in a mm in a week or so.

BTW Tristan Japes is an excellent stage against Snake thanks for the advice.

 

[Zeallyx]

I have been practicing my sheik. And I became fairly beast.

Thanks for the Guide though. I wouldnt be half as beast without it.

 

[Dabuz]

discuss 5:42 of this vid (second match) if its able to be replicated it might be helpful (i apologize if its been seen, skip all of the stuff before 5:42)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S5iAkGE0H8#movie_player

 

[Zankoku]

HAHAHAHAHA

You glitched him between the hill and the donut blocks.

 

[choknater]

is roll really safe out of transform?

 

[momochuu]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242786

Help pleeeeeeease. :3