Active Player Thread: Ones who does not have Triforce can't go in

[Renki]

I don't care if I don't ever win another match again. I'm just glad that for one moment, when I played my heart out and gave it everything, I didn't dissappoint and gave an amazing match. Thank you so much Ed <3

 

[-Mars-]

Bairs a sex kick too for the most part and its weak hit does the same thing as nair for the most part. I agree with love n judo that utilt is the superior ftilt finisher and i save nair for OoS and KO's.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Nair I like to save a lot but at the same time I've been able to do some really awesome stuff with weak hit nair, it's so good when you know how to use sex kicks.

this
10this

Bairs a sex kick too for the most part and its weak hit does the same thing as nair for the most part. I agree with love n judo that utilt is the superior ftilt finisher and i save nair for OoS and KO's.

but it's as sexy of a sex kick.
The way I look at it, well spaced FSmash, side hit USmash, strong Bair, DSmash and Nair all pretty mush kill around the same time. Get them to about 150, forces them to the ledge and KO. That is, if you miss with tipper USmash earlier or screw up a ledge guard/fighting MK.
Nair is really sexy, not because it is an OoS option, but because it can end a jab cancel. Having a kill move out of a frame 2 jab is just sweeeeeeeet.


Also, can you guys please comment on my two threads, stage discussion and opponents options out of f-tilt. At least say, "looks good dude." or "I agree with the OP."

 

[Heartstring]

i tend to use weak hit nair to punish getup attacks by fall fallnig it onto them, works for the most part

 

[KenniSpam!]

^i do that too

 

[iLight]

i <3 weak hit nair

 

[saviorslegacy]

*it worked
*removed

 

[<π]

f nair!

Its the move I kill least often with.

my bair is stalled a lot because its one of sheiks best moves. fair and uair are better tilt finishers than nair will ever be. since they don't reset and keep you in the advantageous position. utilt is amazing and you should beusing it as often as possible to finish since it have really good on hit advantage and does really good damage.

learn your percents and your range on utilt.

 

[phi1ny3]

Why does nobody mention ftilt -> dsmash? Great finisher (I guess it's not a finisher in the traditional sense since you're not really doing this with the intention of tilt locking unless you're fighting a fast faller) especially against characters that you can't tilt lock very well (mainly Peach and Marth and the like), since unlike utilt dsmash is faster and does the same amount of damage in one hit (I say this because you sometimes get that lame one hit from utilt). Basically only a better option at low-low mid percents though, but imo
ftilt x1-2 -> dsmash is amazing (I at first thought it wouldn't hit a lot, but dsmash's hitbox is actually pretty nice for sweeping people after ftilts).

I agree Utilt in general though is a great and probably best option overall for a finisher in more scenarios b/c of the opponent's position more often than not out of a longer tilt lock.

 

[iLight]

marth/peach can upB out of u-tilt pretty sure with minimal/no amount of di

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah exactly, Marth can upB, peach can nair, I do like dmash though b/c of how fast you can pull it off after ftilt, I mean it's probably her fastest more reliable option besides another ftilt

Spoiler

(jab too I guess, but I can never seem to take advantage of jab cancels or they aren't as reliable out of ftilt/not worthwhile as doing them off a jab in the first place)

 

[Heartstring]

yeah occasionally if im fighting a faster faller who can sdi the ftilt relatively well (a.k.a msot fox mains these days) i'll just jab>grab which tends to be quite good, assuming i can get one pummel in, that works as about 12% and takes up a total of 3 things on the stale registry. which can be good if you need to freshen up your kill moves

 

[saviorslegacy]

Why does nobody mention ftilt -> dsmash? Great finisher (I guess it's not a finisher in the traditional sense since you're not really doing this with the intention of tilt locking unless you're fighting a fast faller) especially against characters that you can't tilt lock very well (mainly Peach and Marth and the like), since unlike utilt dsmash is faster and does the same amount of damage in one hit (I say this because you sometimes get that lame one hit from utilt). Basically only a better option at low-low mid percents though, but imo
ftilt x1-2 -> dsmash is amazing (I at first thought it wouldn't hit a lot, but dsmash's hitbox is actually pretty nice for sweeping people after ftilts).

I agree Utilt in general though is a great and probably best option overall for a finisher in more scenarios b/c of the opponent's position more often than not out of a longer tilt lock.

Because if you can hit with DSmash you can hit with f-tilt. Why DSmash when you can f-tilt?
DSmash is useful when they are below f-tilt lock range. ie Fair> f-tilt> DSmash is a favorite of mine to get them to f-tilt lock percents. Usually a few Needle hits happen before the lock or maybe an aerial> f-tilt.... it all depends on the situation. She has combos, but you need to be able to adapt and adapt quickly.


BTW, I found a kill combo out of Needle Storm. If used correctly Sheik would be able to snipe with Needles at the ledge again.
Here's the problem though... it is hard and I have had to change my control settings to make it easier. Once again, we get something cool.... that requires a lot of tech skill. I have yet to do the complete tech twice in a row.

And yes, it has been known for a while. Stell2nd told me about it over a year ago. He didn't exploit it or look further into it though.

 

[-Cross-]

^Want to just say what it is? Practice can always make up for difficult techs, and changing control schemes is personal preference.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Sweeeeeeeet... I done it 12 times in a row just now.
Alright, I'm just gonna say this now. If you don't change your control scheme you are forced to do the claw.



ps Hey Judo, I finally figured it out. I have always said that chain locking is easy and everyone has always said I am wrong. Turns out, we are both right. I use a Wii Classic controller. I recently just tried using the GCN. I can DACUS so well with the GCN, but I can't chain lock worth crap. Turns out it is easier to chain lock with a classic, but harder to DACUS.
I still like my classic more because I have 4 buttons on the back. I have L set to attack and Zl set to jump. Simple eh?

 

[Heartstring]

am i the only person in the world who uses L for block and R for attack/jump? everyone else i know uses R for block over L
i guess its because i first started playing with the wiimote *sigh*

 

[iLight]

I use L for block, and don't use the r button at all

 

[Judo777]

am i the only person in the world who uses L for block and R for attack/jump? everyone else i know uses R for block over L
i guess its because i first started playing with the wiimote *sigh*

I do the same thing. R is attack L is shield. I think L should be shield simply so that i have an entire finger devoted to shielding which is probably the most important button in the game. With R set to shield if im doing a grab i have to switch finger positions to shield. Like it probably doesn't matter that much but i like it.

 

[Heartstring]

I do the same thing. R is attack L is shield. I think L should be shield simply so that i have an entire finger devoted to shielding which is probably the most important button in the game. With R set to shield if im doing a grab i have to switch finger positions to shield. Like it probably doesn't matter that much but i like it.

to be honest i grab with L+A these days anyway unless im pivot grabbing...im a STRANGE person
also i use cstick for dsmash and fsmash, but i use up+R for usmash

 

[Judo777]

to be honest i grab with L+A these days anyway unless im pivot grabbing...im a STRANGE person
also i use cstick for dsmash and fsmash, but i use up+R for usmash

that is weird although L+A isnt a bad idea sometimes, if you need to boost grab you need to use z or ur index finger rather

 

[phi1ny3]

Because if you can hit with DSmash you can hit with f-tilt. Why DSmash when you can f-tilt?
DSmash is useful when they are below f-tilt lock range. ie Fair> f-tilt> DSmash is a favorite of mine to get them to f-tilt lock percents. Usually a few Needle hits happen before the lock or maybe an aerial> f-tilt.... it all depends on the situation. She has combos, but you need to be able to adapt and adapt quickly.


BTW, I found a kill combo out of Needle Storm. If used correctly Sheik would be able to snipe with Needles at the ledge again.
Here's the problem though... it is hard and I have had to change my control settings to make it easier. Once again, we get something cool.... that requires a lot of tech skill. I have yet to do the complete tech twice in a row.

And yes, it has been known for a while. Stell2nd told me about it over a year ago. He didn't exploit it or look further into it though.

Hence why it works the best when you aren't intending to tilt lock, aka at low percents or against Marth/Peach/floaties when it's usually not worth doing outside of 1 or 2 ftilts. But yes, I agree that getting a tilt lock is usually much more rewarding, but I don't see people use ftilt-> dsmash enough, which makes getting to tilt lock ranges muuuuch easier.

As for the L/R thing, I'm weird and I use R for all my shielding, I almost never use L lol.

Also, I heard something along the lines of how Sheik's DACUS is much harder to do with tap jump on. I don't seem to have any problems, although admittedly when I wasn't able to do it consistently I would occasionally SH -> Dair by accident, but now I'm able to do it just fine.

Also, I know that we've already confirmed this needle storm -> DACUS thing working, but has anyone tested for BDACUS? I know this thing seems inferior to DACUS for the most part, but when you get a kill setup it's sometimes good to know that you can make an easier input for DACUS as soon as a move ends without having to be frame tight thanks to buffering. That and I think Sheik's BDACUS was knocked off too early when nobody really tested for it. I might be willing to test it out, now that finals are over for me .

Also, have any of you guys seen how far sheik goes with boost grab if you time it right? IT'S HUUGE at times.

 

[Judo777]

Hence why it works the best when you aren't intending to tilt lock, aka at low percents or against Marth/Peach/floaties when it's usually not worth doing outside of 1 or 2 ftilts. But yes, I agree that getting a tilt lock is usually much more rewarding, but I don't see people use ftilt-> dsmash enough, which makes getting to tilt lock ranges muuuuch easier.

As for the L/R thing, I'm weird and I use R for all my shielding, I almost never use L lol.

Also, I heard something along the lines of how Sheik's DACUS is much harder to do with tap jump on. I don't seem to have any problems, although admittedly when I wasn't able to do it consistently I would occasionally SH -> Dair by accident, but now I'm able to do it just fine.

Also, I know that we've already confirmed this needle storm -> DACUS thing working, but has anyone tested for BDACUS? I know this thing seems inferior to DACUS for the most part, but when you get a kill setup it's sometimes good to know that you can make an easier input for DACUS as soon as a move ends without having to be frame tight thanks to buffering. That and I think Sheik's BDACUS was knocked off too early when nobody really tested for it. I might be willing to test it out, now that finals are over for me .

Also, have any of you guys seen how far sheik goes with boost grab if you time it right? IT'S HUUGE at times.

I have tested BDACUS already and have learned it just because. However I must say that it honestly doesn't have any advantage that i have found. I practice fair to DACUS and fair to BDACUS and they both yield pretty much the same result. Not to mention im not sold that DACUS can't be buffered in the first place because my fair to DACUS seems to be on the same speed as BDACUS.

Also Needles > DACUS is definitely not guaranteed. Not only is it heavily DI dependent but i would almost say that its not even legit if they DI it to make it easiest to land. Needles BDACUS probably wouldn't be any more legit.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Hence why it works the best when you aren't intending to tilt lock, aka at low percents or against Marth/Peach/floaties when it's usually not worth doing outside of 1 or 2 ftilts. But yes, I agree that getting a tilt lock is usually much more rewarding, but I don't see people use ftilt-> dsmash enough, which makes getting to tilt lock ranges muuuuch easier.

As for the L/R thing, I'm weird and I use R for all my shielding, I almost never use L lol.

Also, I heard something along the lines of how Sheik's DACUS is much harder to do with tap jump on. I don't seem to have any problems, although admittedly when I wasn't able to do it consistently I would occasionally SH -> Dair by accident, but now I'm able to do it just fine.

Also, I know that we've already confirmed this needle storm -> DACUS thing working, but has anyone tested for BDACUS? I know this thing seems inferior to DACUS for the most part, but when you get a kill setup it's sometimes good to know that you can make an easier input for DACUS as soon as a move ends without having to be frame tight thanks to buffering. That and I think Sheik's BDACUS was knocked off too early when nobody really tested for it. I might be willing to test it out, now that finals are over for me .

Also, have any of you guys seen how far sheik goes with boost grab if you time it right? IT'S HUUGE at times.

Against Marth I would mix shield in with DSmash.

It does not work. 10 not work.
Worst idea ever unless you are looking to get shield grabbed.

Yep, this is how I GR CG MK.

I have tested BDACUS already and have learned it just because. However I must say that it honestly doesn't have any advantage that i have found. I practice fair to DACUS and fair to BDACUS and they both yield pretty much the same result. Not to mention im not sold that DACUS can't be buffered in the first place because my fair to DACUS seems to be on the same speed as BDACUS.

Also Needles > DACUS is definitely not guaranteed. Not only is it heavily DI dependent but i would almost say that its not even legit if they DI it to make it easiest to land. Needles BDACUS probably wouldn't be any more legit.

I agree.... what's so special about BDACUS anyways? I mean beside the fact that it makes a few character get a DACUS/a faster DACUS. I agree though, Sheik does not seem to get a faster DACUS at all. Hers is fast enough.


ps I have not got around to uploading that video yet because I have been sleeping off and on.

 

[Zankoku]

I tend to dsmash instead of ftilting when I connect with an ftilt at like 0% and need to knock them away before they realize they can just shield the next hit.

 

[Heartstring]

wait, i thought boost grabbing only existed in melee...how do i do it in brawl?
also, i always thought that bdacus was the same thing as dacus, someone care to explain the differences?

 

[Judo777]

wait, i thought boost grabbing only existed in melee...how do i do it in brawl?
also, i always thought that bdacus was the same thing as dacus, someone care to explain the differences?

BDACUS stands for buffered DACUS. It is essentially buffering an entire DACUS input during the last 10 frames of any kind of lag. However for reasons i don't know you can't use an ordinary DACUS input to my knowledge. Instead the typical input is fwd (dash) > ucstick >ucstick again. Buffereing a dash and ucstick causes the dash attack then hitting ucstick again buffers the usmash. What BDACUS does it it buffers the entire DACUS and does it as soon as it can be performed so you do infact get the fastest DACUS possible. The draw back is you have to do it during so kind of lag. So you can BDACUS if you want to alter ur timing on ur DACUS because you HAVE to do it immediately. Also you have to do something that gives you adequate time to buffer the input. Fair to BDACUS for instance is possible but its pretty tricky timing because you have to move ur hands fast and i cant manage to get it without fairing really early to give me the time before i hit the ground (since fair autocancels)

My statement above is to my knowledge accurate according to others although im a little skeptical myself as to whether ordinary DACUS can be buffered because i think it can but others say Im wrong so thats what i told you.

tldr : input is fwd (dash) > cstick up > cstick up.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Here it is.... finally...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHEweDCOYAY

 

[Zankoku]

That's not a needle cancel. That's just a fullhop needle storm.

 

[Judo777]

Here it is.... finally...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHEweDCOYAY

Man that is old lol. Also that setup is super DI dependent. Infact in ur vid D3 DIed right into which would not happen if you ran fwd like that.

 

[saviorslegacy]

That's not a needle cancel. That's just a fullhop needle storm.

It works like a cancel though. Like Ganons auto canceled Dair.

Man that is old lol. Also that setup is super DI dependent. Infact in ur vid D3 DIed right into which would not happen if you ran fwd like that.

Yeah I know it's old. Stell2nd told me about it over a year ago. 2 years this May. lol
It can be useful in a spacing mix up. Reason why I am showing it is because there are no vids on it and I bet you only the old Sheiks know about this.

Actually this can shield poke quite easily.
I wish we could reverse aerial rush> second jump> Needle Storm shield poke> Nair.
That would be epic.

 

[Zankoku]

Ganondorf's dair isn't auto-canceled, as far as I know. The attack just finishes before he lands. If you want an example of auto-canceling, check on Peach's fair.

 

[Judo777]

Ganondorf's dair isn't auto-canceled, as far as I know. The attack just finishes before he lands. If you want an example of auto-canceling, check on Peach's fair.

yea ankoku is right its not autocanceled if it goes through the full animation. Ganons dair works the same way. Its juts referred to as auto canceled dair so people understand its lagless.

 

[saviorslegacy]

You mean I have been thinking it was auto canceled for almost 3 years when in fact it wasn't!?!?!?!??!?!?!

 

[Zankoku]

How the hell do you have access to more Brawl modding tools than I yet still know less about the game's mechanics?

 

[saviorslegacy]

How the hell do you have access to more Brawl modding tools than I yet still know less about the game's mechanics?

I actually don't know how to use them......... Pilnye said he was gonna teach me so that I could do frame data for Sheik. Getting that data will accomplish two things. #1 My contribution to the lab and two, data for my guide.

As for the not knowing it was an autocancel....... I never had a reason to not know it wasn't an auto cancel. I was told that an auto cancel is were you perform a move and land on a specific frame canceling the lag whether it's ending lag. ie Ganon's Dair, MK's Nado or Sheiks Uair
Moves that have no ending lag just have no ending lag. ie Every one of Samus's aerials.

That is what I was told way back when and I never had a reason to think other wise nor did I ever see anything pointing out that I was wrong.

 

[Zankoku]

Sheik's uair might be an auto-cancel. I haven't hand-tested it. It's a known fact that Ganondorf's dair simply ends before he lands from a shorthop. Meta Knight's tornado has plenty of ending lag, you just go through most of it while still in the air, giving the illusion of having a lagless landing.

 

[<π]

full hop needle? what?

 

[saviorslegacy]

full hop needle? what?

Dude what are you trying to convey?

 

[-Cross-]

Yeah I know it's old. Stell2nd told me about it over a year ago. 2 years this May. lol
It can be useful in a spacing mix up. Reason why I am showing it is because there are no vids on it and I bet you only the old Sheiks know about this.

Actually this can shield poke quite easily.
I wish we could reverse aerial rush> second jump> Needle Storm shield poke> Nair.
That would be epic.

Isn't it Steel2nd? btw what do you mean only old Sheiks know about this? I got that **** down the moment I started playing Sheik. But anyway, imo it's one of those things that look like it could combo and would look cool if it did combo but doesn't (most of the time anyway). Best application imo is after an aerial that knocks them off the stage and too far away to combo because then you can cover the trajectory of a forward second jump and possibly steal it

You had me hyped man, but whatever. Now we have another cool video for a Sheik tech.
Also if you want a much more difficult tech, on BF, SH then second jump backwards near the peak of your SH and throw a single needle in the same direction you were already facing. If you do this tech at the right starting place in relation to either of the two lower platforms, you land on the platform with no lag and the single needle will hit the stage and not any of the side platforms. Kind of useless but good tech skill practice.

full hop needle? what?

sarcasm or not, lol

Btw just another comment on the posts about autocanceling. Landing during the middle of an aerial move after an active hitbox is considered autocanceling only if the aerial has low landing lag, giving the impression of low lag. Then there is true autocanceling that Ankoku has covered. Also Ankoku, I'm pretty sure Sheik's uair autocancels. A full hop instant uair will land with minimal landing lag on the lower BF platform, and you cannot second jump before landing iirc. If you fullhop and slightly delay your uair, you will still land with minimal landing lag, which proves autocancel frames.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Isn't it Steel2nd? btw what do you mean only old Sheiks know about this? I got that **** down the moment I started playing Sheik. But anyway, imo it's one of those things that look like it could combo and would look cool if it did combo but doesn't (most of the time anyway). Best application imo is after an aerial that knocks them off the stage and too far away to combo because then you can cover the trajectory of a forward second jump and possibly steal it

You had me hyped man, but whatever. Now we have another cool video for a Sheik tech.
Also if you want a much more difficult tech, on BF, SH then second jump backwards near the peak of your SH and throw a single needle in the same direction you were already facing. If you do this tech at the right starting place in relation to either of the two lower platforms, you land on the platform with no lag and the single needle will hit the stage and not any of the side platforms. Kind of useless but good tech skill practice.

lol yes, Steel2nd. xD At leats I remembered his name.
ANd yes, it can combo... but rarely. I tested it.... it is 100% legit. Marth can not DS out of it.
Nothing to hype up though. jabx2> Nair is just as effective.
Also,

Yeah... sorry....
I've recently been learning Melee Sheik and I've been trying to implement her stuff into Brawl. I figure it has all been done before, but I hope I will find something..... forgotten/under estimated, for example, this. I think this is an underestimated ledge guard.

ps I don't know who said it but who ever said that Melee takes a **** load more tech skill is full of it. I guess maybe compared to MK but to Brawl Sheik!? No, Brawl Sheik takes a lot of tech skill as well. It's hilarious to watch a n00b try and tilt lock! xD
Melee players kind of annoy me some times. -_-