A New Player Approaches. Advice?

[Blanky]

hey guys! im a Mario main and after fooling around with Zelda, im thinking of picking her up as a secondary, or even just switching up between Mario and Zelda equally. i just have a few question im hoping you guys can help me with (preferably The Lake and Cosmo, but im sure all of you guys know more than i do about Zelda!)

for chain grabs, are JC grabs more effective? or should i just do a dash and grab like Peach?

Zelda's out of shield game: does she have one? what are her best options out of shield?

how do i go about approaching a campy player (i feel like Zelda is probably best as a campy character)?

GIMPS! whenever i've used Zelda, i've felt like i had the perfect setups for gimps... but i could never figure out what to gimp them with . her d-air is usually out-prioritized and her f-air feels awkward off stage. any suggestions?

i hope someone can help! thanks

 

[Deleted member]

ALWAYS dash grab with zelda. no exceptions.

stick to upsmash, nair, nayru's, kick, or WD out of shield. roll dodge is under-appreciated also. only use nayru's OOS when the opponent hits high on shield where you would normally grab with another character before the opponent lands. as you play better players, you won't get to use it anymore.

run at them as best as you can and try to catch up? zelda has a miserable time with fast characters that can camp well, namely fox, sheik, and falcon.

fair off stage anyway. it's great for gimps, awkward or not.

 

[KirbyKaze]

To regrab behind you is actually one of the harder regrabs in this game as far as u-throw cgs go. Generally I find it pays to pay attention for that specific regrab (watch mainly for which way they pop out of the throw with emphasis on "behind you") because the other directions are fairly easy.

If you're used to doing it with Mario, you're going to have to adjust; Zelda's grab is slow so you'll be doing it much earlier than usual.

 

[Blanky]

Thanks for the help guys! I worked on my Zelda last night and I was doing some amazing things. The cging took some time to adjust to since im used to jc grabbing with Mario, but I was able to follow-up well after I screwed up anyways! Any more advice would be awesome! Perhaps i'lll post vids soon!

 

[TheLake]

Wellcome stranger

I reckon I got me a few pointers I can throw atcha

First chain grabs are rough at higher level

Try upsmashing to rack free percent cause the grabs are guaranteed

Bair out of shield works on like every character that has any pressure game at all. Upsmash out of shield is decent against fox's shield pressure and falcons which leads us to...

CAMPING WITH ZELDA****

You cant

Well...you can but...like...

you wont be able to most of the time

Space bairs and hold in the L/z/r when you land so you can light sheild
it wrecks

zelda cant camp but she can scare and pressure the **** out of most pepole

abuse it

edguarding....gimp with double bair, Fair to kick, weak fair to Dair, dair to nyarus love, nyarus love to love....realisticly...Dsmash is wicked against those low illusions...turn around and the reverse hit will catch them even if they delay it. A code with zelda....unless they are recovering absurdly low (youll learn whats "low" from expereince) just be a man/woman and get out there and kick them.

And profit

Anymore questions...well...KEEEP POSTIIIING

and i can give more details on antying i wasnt clear on

so all in all

Drop dem drawers

and Flash 'em

Flash' em all

 

[Maxwell Too Swell]

Some personal advice I'd give you against any pressuring character is to mix up your out of shield game when you're being pressured. So against Falco I like wait for an opportunity to upsmash oos, grab(if you're bold), or just roll if you feel like it's a safe bet.

Mix up your ledge options, too (coming up off of the ledge). You shouldn't always try to do the same things over and over with this character. You can ledge hop fair, nair(which sometimes can put your opponents in a bad situation). Otherwise wait for your opportunity to get back onto the stage by up B ledge stalling and do one of those options or waveland onto the stage with a grab or a dsmash.

Here's a little tidbit of info that is fun to mess with. If you're playing against a Falco, and they get back onto the stage with a ledge hop double laser a lot. Try Nayru's love on them as they jump. It can put them in a really bad situation, otherwise if they life to just ledgehop dair or something you can space a kick instead. Otherwise just stay a safe distance away and anticipate their recovery.

Best of luck to you, fellow Zelda.

 

[Deleted member]

also play blue. increases win % greatly.

 

[Blanky]

Thanks a lot for the help guys! Just what I was looking for haha what a nice little community my Zelda is getting much better thanks to you guys!

So what are the toughest MUs? Sheik, fox, and c falcon? And how do you guys go about trying to overcome them?

 

[Maxwell Too Swell]

Yeah, those are definitely her hardest MU's.

Fox-You're gonna have to make them come to you as hard as that may seem. Bait them with kick and then when they get close just have at them with kicks, dash attacks, and grabs if you can. Don't take bait to any of their dash dancing tactics. All they're trying to do is trying to make you whiff a kick so they can up smash you. Otherwise the fox is gonna just laser camp you and when they see an opportunity they'll drill shine you into an upsmash. This match up is basically who takes the bait first.

Falcon- This one is harder than Fox. Basically his options just out prioritize yours in pretty much any way. The biggest thing to remember in this match up is to never be above Falcon. He will capitalize on this situation and combo you hard. This one is just looking for opportunities and capitalizing on them as much as you can. It's gonna take a while to get that kill on Falcon. Be careful about throwing kicks at him aimlessly, he can wait for the kick and then go in for the kill. Don't try to really grab Falcon unless you're totally sure you'll get it. Also know how to edgeguard Falcon. If they go low, Dtilt to dsmash is your best option. If they recover high you're gonna have to hope you space a kick correctly, if you miss then get away from the ledge.

Sheik- The way my friend describes this match up in his words: "You pretty much have to be a better player than your opponent to win this match up." I kind of agree with this. She's difficult to kick and difficult to grab. You just have to be a wall in this match up. Make it difficult for her to approach and if she gets in your defense be sure to not get grabbed. This match up is probably the most defensive of the 3 listed here. The sheik won't be very airborne in this match up which makes it difficult. This is the match up of the 3 that I have the least amount of experience on, so I'm sorry, but my advice kind of stops right here. Good luck though. These 3 might aggravate you to start, but it comes with the territory and you learn to find ways to make them less difficult to about a manageable level.

 

[Zone]

Uh lake up smash isn't guaranteed either lol

 

[Dark Hart]

SDI </3

I wish fsmash and upsmash weren't so easy to get out of

 

[Maxwell Too Swell]

People usually don't know which way to SDI Fsmash when I play against them.

 

[Dark Hart]

Most of the better players I play against are good at that SDI

 

[Maxwell Too Swell]

This is off-topic, but I thought it would be dumb to make a whole new thread on a boards as dead as this one. But how many Zelda's are going to Genesis 2?

 

[Cosmo!]

won't be there, apologies.

 

[Maxwell Too Swell]

Dang it. I wanted to play you.

 

[Dark Hart]

Damnit cosmo XD

 

[Maxwell Too Swell]

Doesn't seem like theLake is going either. I really wanted to play him.

 

[DerfMidWest]

*hijacks topic*

question:
What would you be doing when playing against Pika (or pichu if you know that matchup...)?

My friend plays zelda and I wish to **** more. Right now I just cc everything and then upsmash him, but I want to actually learn how to do the matchup.

 

[ShroudedOne]

From Zone:
"But your opinion on Pikachu Mow is the reason I think Pichu is not that bad against Zelda. his F-smash will shield poke you if you're not careful. He's small and hard to sweet spot kick. He can l-cancel into crouch to avoid a kick out of shield (pretty sure), then Punish. And it's not too hard for him to combo into a upsmash, and possibly down+B if that doesn't get you. However, It takes only like 3 kicks to kill pichu. but it's really hard to land those >.>; cuz of his speed, his small size, you can't really shield poke him, he combo's you pretty well(granted a 10 hit combo does like 30% dmg). Pretty confident though Pichu has a way better chance than say like Kirby lol."

Pikachu obviously owns Zelda. Just combo, put on pressure, don't get kicked, blah blah blah. Oh, and u-air, I think.

There you go, Max. Let's see if you can **** me now.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I already do all of that lol. I want to **** you HARDER!!!

 

[Maxwell Too Swell]

I played Axe's Pikachu in friendlies at Genesis 2. He won once and I won once. It's an interesting match up, but I don't think it's horrible for Zelda. Pikachu has a hard time gimping Zelda and poorly spaced nairs on her shield are pretty punishable with a bair. I think it's pretty fun.

 

[Deleted member]

There you go, Max. Let's see if you can **** me now.

uhh, do I know you? I mean, sure I'm down I guess.

 

[DerfMidWest]

oh he was talking to me... i'm max

I also enjoy the pika/zelda matchup ^^
its fun.

 

[Maxwell Too Swell]

My name is also Max, so I was a little confused, too.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Thats understandable lol.
Besides, we all know that people named max own at melee and people who call themselves "shrouded One" just lose every time

 

[ShroudedOne]

Oh, sorry for the confusion. Should've used his tag.

Pika/Zelda is...probably 65:35 in Pika's favor?

 

[DerfMidWest]

lolno. Pika/Zelda is 100-0 Pichu's favor. Pika devolves and still owns you.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Pichu/Zelda is in Pichu's favor, probably. Doesn't seem that great. Probably better than Pika/Zelda, which is probably more like 70:30.

 

[Maxwell Too Swell]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL this guy.

 

[ShroudedOne]

What do you mean? Are either of those in our favor? Or is 70:30 an exaggeration?

 

[DerfMidWest]

I believe both matchups are in your favor actually lol.

However with Pichu, I'm small, fast, have a beastly agility and I kill you fast and can get little tiny combos... I just get ***** by the toes. I can crouch under your grabs and fsmash though, my fsmash is also your fsmash but with less range and its better (although smaller...)

 

[ShroudedOne]

Pichu might be in our favor, but Pikachu is definitely not. I'll check what Cosmo says, and post it here.

 

[DerfMidWest]

mmmmm.... nah.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Well, Pichu/Pika v. Zelda isn't a matchup that comes up very often, but from looking at both the Pika and Zelda forums, I can pretty confidently say that Pikachu ***** Zelda. Period. 70:30 in Pika's favor is not an exaggeration. Pika can easily DD in and out of our kick range, and his uair messes with our recovery. Badly. Upsmash hurts, and Zelda is light...so we die at low percents. We can't really edge guard Pikachu, and his weight isn't conducive to comboing. We can try to reflect jolt, and then Pika can bait our reflector lag and punish it.

I dunno about Pichu/Zelda, but that one is, from what I've read, in Pichu's favor, but only slightly. We like MU's in which we can abuse kick, but that isn't one of them. Cosmo or TheLake can feel free to dispute what I've said, since they know better, but from what I've read/played/know about the characters, we don't fare well against either rat.

EDIT: it's really hard to find Pika/Zelda vids that are good examples of what I mean...

 

[DerfMidWest]

I think you're just butthurt because I beat you with my pika.

 

[ShroudedOne]

...
...
...
...
...
...
Pikachu, a mid tier? Or Zelda, a low tier? Think. Use some sense.

 

[DerfMidWest]

uhm, k. no johns.

 

[ShroudedOne]

My final point is that, irrespective of how it's played out when we play the MU, it is objectively in Pika's favor by a large margin. There aren't any johns here, because I've beaten your Pikachu with my Zelda. The end.

 

[Cosmo!]

Pikachu beats Zelda

Pichu doesn't