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A New Player Approaches. Advice?

GOTM

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
2,776
Location
West Chester, PA
Cosmo, I've been watching a lot of your matches and you seem to use usmash a lot. I notice most of the time you use it, your opponent SDI's out of it, and then are able to grab you before the animation is over. I just was curious about your strategy with that move. Do you hope to catch them off guard and hope they don't SDI it, that way you have an easy followup?

I see sometimes they will SDI it, but not followup in time, leaving you in perfect range to grab them, but more often than not, they catch you first. Just wanted to know your strategy there.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Cosmo, I've been watching a lot of your matches and you seem to use usmash a lot. I notice most of the time you use it, your opponent SDI's out of it, and then are able to grab you before the animation is over. I just was curious about your strategy with that move. Do you hope to catch them off guard and hope they don't SDI it, that way you have an easy followup?

I see sometimes they will SDI it, but not followup in time, leaving you in perfect range to grab them, but more often than not, they catch you first. Just wanted to know your strategy there.
Upsmash oos is an okay way to move from pressure for a few reasons. notably, it's fast, hits "out" in that you can catch hurtboxes with the edges, and leads to solid punishment after. if they SDI out you can react via grab or dsmash and hope to catch them since the opponent doesn't really have enough time or reaction speed to perform an aerial prior to landing next to zelda. Even if they DI out, you want to use this falling time and landing lag as "stun" because they can't effectively use those frames.

unfortunately, you also have to wait for zelda's upsmash to finish, and then you have to perform her fast awesome downsmash, or her slow as **** grab, whichever you're feeling. if you do either, i'm sure you can see how or why it doesn't always work just because of the timing. it also requires them to over-extend to go inside your shield in the first place so you really only ever want to use it on characters that are okay hitting your shield while moving into you (fox/falco pretty much and no one else) and obviously zelda's upsmash on fox is a joke in the first place.

since you're coming back to the game from a long hiatus, i'd rather you looked at more reliable strategies. gameplay hasn't changed much in the past few years except it has gotten much tighter and players don't **** up like they used to, which is bad news for a character based on the opponent ****ing up. I recommend wavedashing out of shield. Zelda can play to her major advantages, such as:

1. fairly fast, low lag, disjointed attacks. zelda's attacks themselves are either near useless or very, very good.
2. a very big awesome shield.

thus, using her very big awesome shield, and then sliding out of it ideally to use her better attacks will give you the best edge. start with things like shield > WD out > fsmash, fsmash tends to catch opponents that jump or try to follow your WD.
 

GOTM

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
2,776
Location
West Chester, PA
Yeah I have been playing Zelda ever since I started to get better playing Scar every single day, lol, but I've been out of the loop for a while now.

The way I always treated her OOS game was to either immediately dash attack (which seemed to always work well except on falcon who would just shield grab me and d-throw->knee), or I would WD out of shield and jab or something to space myself and re-enter play basically. I mean there are always options to just bair/fair OOS, but those are fairly obvious when they happen.

I don't know if either of those options are good or not, but they seemed to work for me, lol.

I play a very non-campy Zelda, which I think is a terrible idea, but to me it's fun, lol. I approach with a jump-> neutral B a lot and then immediately nair, hahaha it's so dumb but seems to work a lot and then I can usually usmash after landing and catch them off guard.

Do people not use her utilt anymore? Out of like the 30 videos I've watched in the past couple of days of Zone, Cosmo and Lake, I think I've seen like one utilt, lol.
 
D

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Do people not use her utilt anymore? Out of like the 30 videos I've watched in the past couple of days of Zone, Cosmo and Lake, I think I've seen like one utilt, lol.
I know I personally never use her jab, ftilt, or uptilt at all except by accident. I wouldn't blame them if they didn't use those moves either.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
frankly i'd rather kick them once at little/no risk than try to use a high risk, terrible move that combos into kick for a weak 9% or whatever it is.

if you want combos, you should play literally any other character before this one.
 

GOTM

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
2,776
Location
West Chester, PA
frankly i'd rather kick them once at little/no risk than try to use a high risk, terrible move that combos into kick for a weak 9% or whatever it is.

if you want combos, you should play literally any other character before this one.
lol qft.

zelda's only set combos are like d-throw kick with bad DI and dash attack -> dash attack with bad DI, lmao. w/e she's still awesome
 

Cosmo!

nerf zelda's dsmash
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
2,368
Location
Chicago, Illinois
zelda's jab and dtilt are better than her utilt and ftilt.

her ftilt is really bad and her utilt is a gimmick move that can sometimes star ko floaties at high %
 

ShroudedOne

Smash Hero
Premium
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
5,493
Come on, Cosmo. Her f-tilt can't be that bad.

*still holding on to hope, as it is one of his favorite moves of hers*
 

Cosmo!

nerf zelda's dsmash
Joined
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Messages
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Chicago, Illinois
I see why people like it -- it is stylish and can actually lead to some "big" combos and damage (why are you trying to combo with zelda)

it still is a trashy move though
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I use her ftilt a lot instead of another uthrow on spacies. You guys dont do that?

:phone:
I prefer to do whatever is most likely to win, which is pretty much some combination of kick, fsmash, dsmash, or the occasional throw. everything after that is style points.
 

GOTM

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
2,776
Location
West Chester, PA
I prefer to do whatever is most likely to win, which is pretty much some combination of kick, fsmash, dsmash, or the occasional throw. everything after that is style points.
yea thats prob my problem, wanting to look good, haha
 

GKInfinity

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Messages
2,131
Location
Modesto CA
I prefer to do whatever is most likely to win, which is pretty much some combination of kick, fsmash, dsmash, or the occasional throw. everything after that is style points.
I think nair has its practical applications too, but otherwise I agree completely
 

ShroudedOne

Smash Hero
Premium
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Mar 14, 2011
Messages
5,493
I sometimes use her nair if someone is on a platform above me, just to poke at them. It's...meh.
 

TheLake

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
3,057
Location
Butler PA
Use every move

damnit

Uptilt is my favorite zelda attack

next to UpAir

like BOOM

f tilt is good

for buttering bread

jelly too if you like that on your toast

<3
 

GOTM

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
2,776
Location
West Chester, PA
I played Melee for about 2 hours last night using Zelda like 95% of the time. Basically, ftilt never hurt me, it didn't always help, but I never got punished from using it. It combos into bair a lot for me as well, and it helps me space well on slower characters.

Utilt...I don't know I think it kind of blows now from using it more, lol. I still stand by using Nayru's Love to approach, haha. It's too good. I use it like a shine sometimes. Cancel bair/fair into Nayru's Love, lol. It actually works a lot of the time.
 

Zone

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
2,483
Location
Pensacola, FL
You can f tilt after jab reset, you can f tilt after a read roll, you can f tilt when you land infront of a sheik and you wave-land back making her miss her grab(real style points).

After a dash attack on heavy fallers, I believe ganon as well at zero ish.

That's pretty much the extent of it.

I did a lot of tests. You can knock a lot of aerials out with it's priority, but because of it's slow recovery... All they gotta do is bait it with rapid movement and you're eating a huge combo. So not really worth it.

I use it occasionally when I tech chase sheik on a platform with a waveland.

:phone:
 

TheLake

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
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Butler PA
I like standing there and just gazing into the sunset

Zeldas 4th best attack imo

right under blue dress, kick, up air, and down smash.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
her fsmash is definitely her second best move, if not her first.

nayru's was good back in the day when people were bad, now it's just a good way to get killed.
 

Maxwell Too Swell

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 26, 2010
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Thank you Based Mimi
One thing I've experimented with is using her f-tilt on spacies recovering with an illusion. It seems like it sends them back in the direction from which they're recovering. I think it's a pretty nifty edgeguard if you can time it correctly. I'm like the Lake though. I try to use every move at her disposal with the exception of Din's fire and forward throw. Makes her more enjoyable this way and leaves your opponent confused that she has moves other than the kick and forward smash.
 

GOTM

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
2,776
Location
West Chester, PA
Do any of you guys use the tail end of her dash attack to edgeguard? I've been using it and it basically pushes most characters far enough if their % is high that they have no chance of getting back on stage.

I'm probably going to be posting some videos late next week.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
in my entire smash career, i've never had anyone SDI out of my fsmash. ever. i don't even know what the DI is to get out. the only time i could ever see it happening is if the opponent knew how to do it and got a free chance to do it like if you were stupid enough to fsmash a jigglypuff after a rest or something. but she can't crouch so just do weak kick > strong kick? idk, but i've seriously never seen it happen once.
 

GOTM

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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Location
West Chester, PA
actually i was going to ask that. i was playin my friends jiggs the other day and he missed a rest. i like...froze, lol. i was assuming i should bair or something but like it just felt...not enough?

is that really all you can do?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
actually i was going to ask that. i was playin my friends jiggs the other day and he missed a rest. i like...froze, lol. i was assuming i should bair or something but like it just felt...not enough?

is that really all you can do?
you play zelda. your job is to play blue, and embarrass people, and kick them.
 
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
7,187
The last hit of fsmash (fully charged) has more knockback than either of her toes. There's a way to space it so that only the last hit hits when rest punishing

Stand right next to Jigglypuff
Roll behind her

The last hitbox of fsmash is the biggest hitbox. Nayru's Love and usmash's last hitboxes are their biggest too
 
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