popsofctown
Smash Champion
this thread needs a sticky
-
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A Guide to Farore's Wind - Updated Teleport-Cancelling Section
- Thread starter Luthien
- Start date
RoyalBlood
Smash Ace
Something weird happened to me when i was playing, i tried to recover with Zelda, but when she reappeared under the ledge right next to the stage she had her second jump available, i made a little diagram :
Could someone check if this is possible?
Could someone check if this is possible?
PK-ow!
Smash Lord
Unless that pink dot floating out in the air indicates one of Zelda's actual positions, what you've done is scraped the edge.
Many characters can hit a certain part of the ledge (just off and above the tip) while moving with their third jump, and they will be instantly restored to control frames with all their jumps, no momentum, and begin falling (with their post-DJ animation) - and they will fail to autorecover unless you jump again, for some reason.
I wish I could send a vid of a recreation. You may have observed Zelda to first appear below the stage... but we know this scraping cancels the third jump, and we know Farore's Wind includes some invisibility and an attack animation, so perhaps Zelda just became visible after falling a time.
There's a chance this wasn't edge scraping, but you'd have to say more.
RoyalBlood
Smash Ace
Well, Zelda appeared BELOW the edge, not at it's side or up of it, she appeared in the part of FD where characters can Wall Cling ( that means where Sheik, Squirtle, Lucario and Diddy can wall cling) she was beside that part, and she started falling but regained second jump an FW( i know because i used them again, but died due to teleporting in the wrong direction
), and when she reappeared the first time someone was already hanging from the ledge (or edge?
) so she couldn't have touched it.Anyway I'm not sure, so could someone try this out????
popsofctown
Smash Champion
Are you sure you did what you think you did? It's good to have a witness or replay, to make sure you didn't just see something that didn't really happen.
From a programming perspective though, you can come up with a pretty good/creative explanation. When you are next to a wall, the game decides whether or not you can wall jump and then gives you back your jumps if you can, because you can double jump after a wall jump. So the game could get confused about whether or not Zelda can wall jump/cling, and could have restored her jumps accidentally.
From a programming perspective though, you can come up with a pretty good/creative explanation. When you are next to a wall, the game decides whether or not you can wall jump and then gives you back your jumps if you can, because you can double jump after a wall jump. So the game could get confused about whether or not Zelda can wall jump/cling, and could have restored her jumps accidentally.
PK-ow!
Smash Lord
Oh jeez how could I have missed this -
it was a phantom footstool. **** this thing is causing so much confusion! The ledgehogger footstooled you real quick, either before grabbing, or with a drop -> footstool -> autorecover. Probably the former.
Oh wait - does footstool restore the DJ? I know it gives you the third jump back...
it was a phantom footstool. **** this thing is causing so much confusion! The ledgehogger footstooled you real quick, either before grabbing, or with a drop -> footstool -> autorecover. Probably the former.
Oh wait - does footstool restore the DJ? I know it gives you the third jump back...
Yes, it is possible.. I mean, you did it - didn't you?
How could it not be possible if you saw it happen lol.
But anyway, as I have mentioned before it's possible to ledgewarp from below the ledge.
This is what you experienced.
I don't know if it's possible on levels other than FD.. this is the only level I've done it on.
I have a replay of it as well, but I don't know what value that would really add.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Anyone know exactly how many frames of lag farore's wind has after the teleportation occurs?
Because I've recently been using it to teleport (ground to ground) through laggy projectile screens, with a bit of prediction there, in addition to the fact that you can distance it so precisely, I haven't been punished with it at all, basically it's getting me into approach range.
I'm trying to figure out if it's a function of the players I've been facing, or that it's actually highly useful for the purpose. For that, I need frame data, what say you guys?
Because I've recently been using it to teleport (ground to ground) through laggy projectile screens, with a bit of prediction there, in addition to the fact that you can distance it so precisely, I haven't been punished with it at all, basically it's getting me into approach range.
I'm trying to figure out if it's a function of the players I've been facing, or that it's actually highly useful for the purpose. For that, I need frame data, what say you guys?
TheKingOfFuzz
Smash Rookie
Sticky needed.
Could some helpful moderator kindly sticky this very useful guide?
It's about to drop off the front page, for goodness' sake.
Thanks.
Oh, and thank you, Luthien (et al), for the elbow grease.
Edit: This still needs a sticky (7/7/08).
Could some helpful moderator kindly sticky this very useful guide?
It's about to drop off the front page, for goodness' sake.
Thanks.
Oh, and thank you, Luthien (et al), for the elbow grease.
Edit: This still needs a sticky (7/7/08).
Ulevo
Smash Master
Very useful guide. I'm thinking of picking up Zelda and this has helped to inform me. Thanks.
smaci92
Smash Lord
Wow, this really did need its own guide!
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
I remember reading a post a long time ago where Zelda footstooled someone else while in the middle of an FW, in her disappearing part of the move.
I can't seem to find the thread/post. Does anyone know if it's possible?
I can't seem to find the thread/post. Does anyone know if it's possible?
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
I believe this thread is more than sticky worthy!
As far as footstooling in the middle of FW. I've also accidently done this to a few friends and I have absolutely no idea what happened. Anyway to explain this?
As far as footstooling in the middle of FW. I've also accidently done this to a few friends and I have absolutely no idea what happened. Anyway to explain this?
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
i forgot about this thread. it was really helpfull when i first started playing zelda and should be sticky
SoliceTK
Smash Rookie
Thx for the guide, learned a lot.
Luthien
Smash Ace
Added NinjaLink's video of Ledgewarping/Teleport-cancelling. Enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3b_e8T6_wo
(By the way, I'm not sure I had permission to add this. If you have a problem with it NinjaLink, just let me know and I'll get rid of it.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3b_e8T6_wo
(By the way, I'm not sure I had permission to add this. If you have a problem with it NinjaLink, just let me know and I'll get rid of it.)
ShadowCosmos
Smash Cadet
Wow, I didn't realize that there were 16 directions. I was sure that I had been pressing the North-Northwest directions but now I'm sure that I was just messing up. This will make it a lot easier to recover. And I didn't realize that you could change the spacing of your ground FW by placing a that had a southern element to it. That will really help when dealing with people predicting your teleport in constricted situations and against faster characters. Thanks for making this guide!
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
If you pull out Sheik's chain, and SLOWLY circle the joystick, there are clearly over 100 different "directions".
I don't know for sure if it's applicable to that extent with FW, though.
ShadowCosmos
Smash Cadet
well I realized that there were multiple directions (back from Melee with my friend doing the weird angles with Fox) but I didn't realize they were applicable to Brawl. For some reason every time that I tried to do the other angles I would subconsciously move the control stick into the niches on the controller. So it just seemed for a good while that I couldn't use those strange directions anymore.
Well at least all that's been dispelled lol. I'm now free to fully appreciate Zelda's recovery. I'm really glad that they decided to make Zelda deal damage and hit back when she appears now. Makes it a more useful move overall.
Well at least all that's been dispelled lol. I'm now free to fully appreciate Zelda's recovery. I'm really glad that they decided to make Zelda deal damage and hit back when she appears now. Makes it a more useful move overall.
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
Totally.
The ending lag is insignificant now when it connects.
The ending lag is insignificant now when it connects.
ShadowCosmos
Smash Cadet
Not to mention that the southern directions, when used on the ground, makes it a lot more difficult for your opponent to predict where you're gonna pop up making the teleport mind game more significant, compared to just basically 4 directions (north south east west) since the northwest, and northeast directions were dangerous thanks to the useless state you're put in. Now I just need to figure out how to successfully get the ledgewarping/teleport-canceling consistantly lol.
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
Here's a tip. You can do this with any stage.
Stand on the edge of the stage so Zelda teeters.
Teleport back.
Take one step forward. Tiny tiny step.
FW to the ledge.
Ta Da. Just remember where you were standing and mentally mark that spot on the floor, i.e. in FD, you take one step from the center of that diamond shape thing in the center towards the ledge you want to warp to.
Stand on the edge of the stage so Zelda teeters.
Teleport back.
Take one step forward. Tiny tiny step.
FW to the ledge.
Ta Da. Just remember where you were standing and mentally mark that spot on the floor, i.e. in FD, you take one step from the center of that diamond shape thing in the center towards the ledge you want to warp to.
ShadowCosmos
Smash Cadet
Ahh nice. That makes a lot of sense.
Also can you do it from off stage to going on stage? IE: knocked off, opponent is good at edgehogging, can you hit that point and then get all your jumps and stuff back? (well obviously only second jump but you know what I mean) That would be difficult to get the mental spacing down but it would still be useful to know.
Also can you do it from off stage to going on stage? IE: knocked off, opponent is good at edgehogging, can you hit that point and then get all your jumps and stuff back? (well obviously only second jump but you know what I mean) That would be difficult to get the mental spacing down but it would still be useful to know.
Luthien
Smash Ace
Yes, you can ledgewarp from offstage, but from the occurances I've seen, the place you reappear isn't the same as the one as when you're ledgewarping from onstage. On FD, for example, the spot you reappear is (about):
I'm not sure this is the only one, but it's the only one I've seen myself. I don't think you can ledgewarp from off the stage with the same reappearing spot as if you were to ledgewarp from on the stage. If someone has somthing to add or correct, let me know.
ShadowCosmos
Smash Cadet
gotcha, cuz that could be useful against people who like to tether edgehog for the invincibility frames.
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
Well, if you can do it from the air, you can do it from off the stage.
Once you've practiced a lot, "mark" places in the air. It's kind of a trial-and-error thing this time, since you can't choose how far FW takes you, just which direction.
I'll make a practice stage and try it out.
After a bit of testing, it seems that the effect is caused by Zelda landing on the ground and then her momentum pushing her off the side before the reappearance animation can finish.
This would mean that though you can do it from the air, you cannot do it coming TOWARDS the ledge. I don't think it's possible.
Once you've practiced a lot, "mark" places in the air. It's kind of a trial-and-error thing this time, since you can't choose how far FW takes you, just which direction.
I'll make a practice stage and try it out.
After a bit of testing, it seems that the effect is caused by Zelda landing on the ground and then her momentum pushing her off the side before the reappearance animation can finish.
This would mean that though you can do it from the air, you cannot do it coming TOWARDS the ledge. I don't think it's possible.
ShadowCosmos
Smash Cadet
Ah I see. Well that would explain it. It's like that one tech (I can't remember the name of it) where you land on the ledge of a platform during one of your animations and then fall of immediately after to cancel that or cancel the lag on the move, except it's with her FW. It kinda makes sense when you think of it that way.
K thanks for the info ^_^
K thanks for the info ^_^
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
Sure.
Again I could be wrong. Theoretically if that was the case, then it would work just the same with the Din Glide.
I've tried Din Gliding to the edge. Her foot touches, just like a ledgewarp, but then she kinda does a mini hop and keeps falling forwards. It would have been nice though.
Again I could be wrong. Theoretically if that was the case, then it would work just the same with the Din Glide.
I've tried Din Gliding to the edge. Her foot touches, just like a ledgewarp, but then she kinda does a mini hop and keeps falling forwards. It would have been nice though.
Takumaru
Smash Lord
Just wondering, how many people use ledge stealing/warping a lot or at least incorporate it into their game? Also i just noticed this topic was made the day before I made my topic about ledge stealing on AiB. lol. You explained it better than I did though.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
I never do.... the risk of misguessing by even the slightest bit far outweighs the potential reward IMO
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
As much as I can.
On FD, I D-smash from the center and then ledgewarp to a spike or f/bair. Or when they're recovering. It's REALLLLLYYYY easy to do on FD, Battlefield and Eldin. I haven't tried the other ones.
On FD, I D-smash from the center and then ledgewarp to a spike or f/bair. Or when they're recovering. It's REALLLLLYYYY easy to do on FD, Battlefield and Eldin. I haven't tried the other ones.
ShadowCosmos
Smash Cadet
Still working on the spacing >.>; but it has a lot of potential for chasing guys.
Lingy
Smash Journeyman
Bit of a big bump.. but there's something that has been bothering me for a bit.
Everyone knows DM's zelda brawl video 'Playing With Fire', amirite? Well... copying and pasting this from the comments of the video:
...Anyone have any ideas? I've watched the segment countless times, but he FWs again at 1:08 -- presumably in the same spot as 1:05 -- and doesn't grasb the ledge.
Everyone knows DM's zelda brawl video 'Playing With Fire', amirite? Well... copying and pasting this from the comments of the video:
Watch the video here.
...Anyone have any ideas? I've watched the segment countless times, but he FWs again at 1:08 -- presumably in the same spot as 1:05 -- and doesn't grasb the ledge.
Oh Snap
Smash Ace
He didn't use it upwards. He probably shifted the stick to the right a bit and sweeted the ledge.
Lingy
Smash Journeyman
Read the comments, he said it was upwards. Although, I'm not sure how he remembers. 
Luthien
Smash Ace
There's no way that was only upwards. I'm guessing that was a North-northeast teleport, more likely North-north-northeast. Remember, FW doesn't only go 16 directions. If you're wondering how I know it wasn't directly upwards, compare 1:05-1:06 with 1:07-1:09. The second teleport is what would have happened if he had teleported directly upwards.Read the comments, he said it was upwards. Although, I'm not sure how he remembers.
Sometimes when I'm playing, I NNE teleport when I intend to just fly directly up. Although it may seem a little weird for one to roll the controller away from the knob, you can do it by accident.
Oh Snap
Smash Ace
No...it couldn't have been upwards. If it was, it would've gone twice the distance it went.
Lingy
Smash Journeyman
Well, I guess the fact that DM said he pointed upwards kinda blinded me from the possiblity. I would try it out, but again my wii is in a box being shipped. D: