A Great Evil Walks the Earth, the Ganondorf in Smash Bros. Ultimate Discussion

[Red Shirt KRT]

Right, it would be op.

I think this is the best ganon has been in a smash game, better than melee.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Anyone still disappointed we dont a hover and dead mans volley...
I'm happy with the buffs got but looking at how creative King K Rool's moveset is compared to Ganondorf is a bit disappointing

 

[Arrei]

Just unlocked Ganondorf today and took him for a spin, and for some reason I feel extremely sluggish with him, more than I ever felt in Smash 4. Possibly because I can't threaten with smashes anymore without massive endlag. I don't know how he's supposed to get in on zoners with his tall frame and low mobility, especially with shields being nerfed. How are you lot dealing with projectiles? Surely they can't expect the man to parry every single projectile that comes his way?

 

[King9999]

Just unlocked Ganondorf today and took him for a spin, and for some reason I feel extremely sluggish with him, more than I ever felt in Smash 4. Possibly because I can't threaten with smashes anymore without massive endlag. I don't know how he's supposed to get in on zoners with his tall frame and low mobility, especially with shields being nerfed. How are you lot dealing with projectiles? Surely they can't expect the man to parry every single projectile that comes his way?

You can absolutely threaten with smashes. Have you tried the new u-smash? That thing is great. Also, you can connect smash attacks out of flame choke if you make the right read.

As for zoners, well that's always been one of Ganon's weaknesses. You can't expect a character's defining weaknesses to be improved--they're there for a reason. I've always used Wiz Foot to beat or trade with projectiles. If there are platforms, use those.

Anyone still disappointed we dont a hover and dead mans volley...
I'm happy with the buffs got but looking at how creative King K Rool's moveset is compared to Ganondorf is a bit disappointing

The only thing I was disappointed about was that I didn't get Hyrule Warriors Ganon. I'm over it now.

 

[Arrei]

You can absolutely threaten with smashes. Have you tried the new u-smash? That thing is great. Also, you can connect smash attacks out of flame choke if you make the right read.

As for zoners, well that's always been one of Ganon's weaknesses. You can't expect a character's defining weaknesses to be improved--they're there for a reason. I've always used Wiz Foot to beat or trade with projectiles. If there are platforms, use those.

His new smashes are strong, but hella punishable. Guess I'm just too used to being able to throw random up smashes that make the opponent think twice about approaching haphazardly.

I just meant it feels like Ganon gets worked over by projectiles even harder than before, at any rate. Of course this lumbering beast of a man is weak to zoning but a lot of projectiles seem faster than they used to be so he's even slower in comparison. With the nerfs to shielding without parrying I'm a lot more scared of stuff like Aura Sphere and Charge Shot than before.

 

[narples]

im real scared of aura/charge shot when I’m on ledge I feel like I have no options at all

 

[Hakumen]

I think part of the fun of playing Ganondorf, is that sometimes you just have to make some nutty reads, or go for risky ****. Ultimate is a faster game, and therefore you can do more crazy stuff with Ganondorf in neutral. There's no real way for a beefy guy like him to deal with fast characters well. Albeit, Nair and fast fall seems really good for controlling the space in front of him, I tend to do that often myself.

As for zoners, it's a pain in the ass, but that's where your patience is tested. There's not a lot of options against projectiles, you either just try to avoid them or move in with shield, and both those options are scary for him. But all you need is just one throw, or flame choke to get started on your mix ups, and zoning gets hard for the other player once Ganondorf is in their face.

 

[Rizen]

I've SDed 4 times on Ganon's classic mode. Once from flame choking shulk over a pit I didn't realize was there, twice from walkoffs and once from the edge of skyworld 'pinappling' me. The problem is Ganon's rout is full of *****y stages.

 

[Erimir]

I think I was able to get to 9.8 on Ganondorf's Classic mode, but getting to 9.9 would require more attempts.

 

[Megadoomer]

Ganondorf is so satisfying to use in this game. I'm not sure what all has been changed for him since Smash 4, but even if it's just the swords, they've gone a long way towards making him feel like an unstoppable juggernaut. Between him, Ridley, Bowser, and K. Rool, they've really gone out of their way to do the villains justice this time around.

He's the character that allowed me to beat the game on 9.9 difficulty, and he makes spirit matches so easy (especially with a Giant support skill to boost his already-impressive range and power) - he's definitely up there in terms of being one of my favourite characters this time around.

 

[meleebrawler]

Ganondorf is so satisfying to use in this game. I'm not sure what all has been changed for him since Smash 4, but even if it's just the swords, they've gone a long way towards making him feel like an unstoppable juggernaut. Between him, Ridley, Bowser, and K. Rool, they've really gone out of their way to do the villains justice this time around.

He's the character that allowed me to beat the game on 9.9 difficulty, and he makes spirit matches so easy (especially with a Giant support skill to boost his already-impressive range and power) - he's definitely up there in terms of being one of my favourite characters this time around.

Better watch out for that Hades spirit battle...

 

[Megadoomer]

Better watch out for that Hades spirit battle...

That actually wasn't too tough with a giant metal Ganondorf. I used Soma Cruz as a primary spirit, since he has Giant Killer, and I was able to take Hades down in two or three smash attacks. (I've got all of the spirits aside from the Pokemon Let's Go ones at this point, so I don't need to worry about any of them)

 

[Rizen]

Ganondorf is so satisfying to use in this game. I'm not sure what all has been changed for him since Smash 4, but even if it's just the swords, they've gone a long way towards making him feel like an unstoppable juggernaut. Between him, Ridley, Bowser, and K. Rool, they've really gone out of their way to do the villains justice this time around.

He's the character that allowed me to beat the game on 9.9 difficulty, and he makes spirit matches so easy (especially with a Giant support skill to boost his already-impressive range and power) - he's definitely up there in terms of being one of my favourite characters this time around.

I've been cheesing WoL with giant Ganon too.

 

[Kuraudo]

Heyo there Ganondorf crew! Just wanted to drop in with a juicy result for the King of Evil.

https://smash.gg/tournament/for-glory-smush-vs-ultimate/events/smush-singles/standings

For anyone who remembers him, Kosk (formerly Koskinator) was sent to losers by me in our pool only to go all the way to 5th place out of 170+ entrants. ALL Ganondorf. While knocking out/upsetting quite a few people along the way. I haven't clipped anything from it, but there were many broken shields, a clutch dropzone UAir win, and the most hype of any player of the night.

 

[King9999]

Heyo there Ganondorf crew! Just wanted to drop in with a juicy result for the King of Evil.

https://smash.gg/tournament/for-glory-smush-vs-ultimate/events/smush-singles/standings

For anyone who remembers him, Kosk (formerly Koskinator) was sent to losers by me in our pool only to go all the way to 5th place out of 170+ entrants. ALL Ganondorf. While knocking out/upsetting quite a few people along the way. I haven't clipped anything from it, but there were many broken shields, a clutch dropzone UAir win, and the most hype of any player of the night.

Are there match vids? I'm interested in watching them!

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

He was great in s4 should be even better with the Ganon buffs.

 

[Idon]

He was great in s4

... no.

 

[Darches]

He was great when you weren't being constantly outranged, comboed, or gimped at 30%, but that was majority of the battle.

 

[Erimir]

I'd let Red Shirt KRT clarify himself, but I assume he was referring to Kosk being great in SSB4, not Ganondorf. If he was already a good Ganondorf player in 4, he should have more success in SSBU given the buffs, no?

 

[Idon]

I'd let Red Shirt KRT clarify himself, but I assume he was referring to Kosk being great in SSB4, not Ganondorf. If he was already a good Ganondorf player in 4, he should have more success in SSBU given the buffs, no?

Ah okay, that certainly makes more sense.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Went to my first tournament since ultimate dropped. Overall, my conclusion is that Ganondorf is not meaningfully better than he was in 4. His smashes are still bad, upair is actually super nerfed, and ganoncide always killing him first means that whatever system changes might have helped him, the devs have done nothing whatsoever to fix what made him so trash for the past 10 years.

 

[Arrei]

The super slow powerhouse archetype usually doesn't rank too high in games, but "nothing whatsoever" seems like pushing it. His old weaknesses are still around, especially his weak recovery, but he at least has more tools onstage than he's ever had before. He's less vulnerable when throwing aerials to challenge aggressors, Wizkick has the reward and travel speed to justify trying a frame 16 move and they fixed its startup deadzone, Flame Choke is fixed to always be in his favor, Dark Dive kills onstage in stark contrast to its previous joke status, the sheer size of his smashes allows him to threaten an opponent when he has stage advantage and it makes him extremely scary under a platform, complementing his option of using Dark Dive against opponents who hold shield above him.

 

[Rizen]

Ganon's really bad ...then he pivot Fsmash kills you at 40%.

 

[T-Donor66]

Went to my first tournament since ultimate dropped. Overall, my conclusion is that Ganondorf is not meaningfully better than he was in 4. His smashes are still bad, upair is actually super nerfed, and ganoncide always killing him first means that whatever system changes might have helped him, the devs have done nothing whatsoever to fix what made him so trash for the past 10 years.

Or you can also conclude that you didn’t play good, because Ive seen tons of tourney footage of him doing incredible.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So for the next Smash, what other moves would you guys love to see them incorporate into Ganondorf's moveset? I would love to see Dead Man's Valley as Ganondorf's Neutral Special, floating in the air as his recovery, and his earthquake punch as his Down Special.

 

[The Event Mask]

I think Ganondorfs biggest buff in Ultimate is that he no longer runs like he has to take a dump from Brawl and Smash 4. He now has an intimidating dash animation.

 

[T-Donor66]

What do you guys think about Ganondorf as a co main to Mewtwo? I think they cover each others weaknesses extremely well. Mewtwo has a projectile, reflector, safer disjoints, safe edgeguard game, great recovery; while Ganon has tons of weight, raw power, incredible pressure, 50% kill potential, safer aerials, etc. What do you guys think?

 

[King9999]

What do you guys think about Ganondorf as a co main to Mewtwo? I think they cover each others weaknesses extremely well. Mewtwo has a projectile, reflector, safer disjoints, safe edgeguard game, great recovery; while Ganon has tons of weight, raw power, incredible pressure, 50% kill potential, safer aerials, etc. What do you guys think?

Mewtwo seems like a good pick. I have a Dark Pit as a sub to cover Ganon's weaknesses, and recently picked up Lucina. My problem is that I'm not nearly as good with other characters as I am with Ganon, lol.

 

[T-Donor66]

Mewtwo seems like a good pick. I have a Dark Pit as a sub to cover Ganon's weaknesses, and recently picked up Lucina. My problem is that I'm not nearly as good with other characters as I am with Ganon, lol.

Same dude. I feel as if my Mewtwo that I have 3 years of experience playing isn’t as good as my Ganon I picked up 2 days ago. Im just naturally good as heavies and its really frustrating as a longtime Mewtwo player.

 

[King9999]

Same dude. I feel as if my Mewtwo that I have 3 years of experience playing isn’t as good as my Ganon I picked up 2 days ago. Im just naturally good as heavies and its really frustrating as a longtime Mewtwo player.

I feel that. I've played Ganon for years since Melee, so I'm comfortable with his playstyle and characteristics. Switching to other characters will feel weird at first.

 

[Arrei]

I wonder how long it'll take for people to catch on that Dark Dive is a powerful kill move now? I get away with literally running up to an opponent and using it in their face way too often, sometimes because they sit in shield, sometimes because they react to my approach with a jump and place themselves directly in the move's range.

 

[King9999]

I wonder how long it'll take for people to catch on that Dark Dive is a powerful kill move now? I get away with literally running up to an opponent and using it in their face way too often, sometimes because they sit in shield, sometimes because they react to my approach with a jump and place themselves directly in the move's range.

I've been using Dark Dive more often now on the stage, but not as much as I could. Don't forget to use it when the opponent is on a platform and you're below them. More often than not, they expect a u-smash or an aerial.

 

[King9999]

I feel like updating the guide to show which projectiles Wiz Foot can and can't deal with, but that's a lot of work and the training mode doesn't have enough dummy options. I have a small circle of people I play with regularly, so if I do update the guide, I'll have to get their help.

 

[Rizen]

In the weekly tournaments I go to there were two Ganon's having a ditto. The made a gentlemen's agreement to do it on Temple. It was awesome.

 

[Arrei]

Odd, has anyone else noticed Ganondorf's dash attack likes to not do special zoom when it finishes the match? It gets the black lightning, and the enemy doesn't necessarily DI badly but sometimes it does it and sometimes it just... skips the fanfare. It's like the opposite problem of the false alarms that don't actually kill.

 

[King9999]

Someone found a good use for Ganon's ledge cancel:
https://twitter.com/LoveExpertSmash/status/1090021375711068160

 

[King9999]

Is it me, or is Ganon's f-air unchanged in 2.0? It's supposed to have less end lag, but I don't see it. It was 13 frames before, right?

 

[T-Donor66]

Is it me, or is Ganon's f-air unchanged in 2.0? It's supposed to have less end lag, but I don't see it. It was 13 frames before, right?

It has a faster autocancel window now, not less endlag.

 

[King9999]

It has a faster autocancel window now, not less endlag.

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Z1GMA]

Is it me, or is Ganon's f-air unchanged in 2.0? It's supposed to have less end lag, but I don't see it. It was 13 frames before, right?

Like T-donor said.
And it is pretty much a useless buff, sadly.

And uair "ledge lockout" buff is pointless as well, since Ganon can Quick Snap ledges with Aerial Flame Choke anyway.