A Great Evil Walks the Earth, the Ganondorf in Smash Bros. Ultimate Discussion

What's your opinion on Ganondorf's moveset?

  • Love it, it's inseparable from Dorf to me

    Votes: 17 10.6%
  • Like it, but wouldn't mind a revamp

    Votes: 50 31.1%
  • Neutral, don't care either way

    Votes: 10 6.2%
  • Don't like it, but I can live with it

    Votes: 5 3.1%
  • Hate it, and a revamp is long overdue

    Votes: 45 28.0%
  • I like it, but I would still prefer a revamp.

    Votes: 34 21.1%

  • Total voters
    161
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#1
:ganondorfmelee::ganondorf::4ganondorf::ultganondorf:





Let's discuss and toss ideas around about what he want for the evil king in this new game. What do you think his appearance should be? Should he retain his Twilight Princes appearance? Or use another appearance? I'm partial to his Hyrule Warriors design myself, but I won't hold my breath for that.

Seeing as Link's appearance has changed, I'm hoping Ganondorf could receive special treatment by extension.

Also, giving Ganondorf a unique moveset would be a step in the right direction. He's been a Falcon clone for far too long. It was understandable for Melee, it was tolerated for Brawl, but it was inexcusable in Sm4sh. It's time things changed.

What are your thoughts? How do you think Ganondorf should play? Should he remain as Falcondorf? Or should he be given the respect he deserves as the strongest villain in Smash by receiving a more canonically inspired moveset?
 
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CaptainAmerica

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#2
I’m always going for a new improved Dorf. I’ve always been ok with the previous incarnation, but he has lately gotten really sad, especially when Hyrule Warriors came out and showed us what he could really be like (and dat mane tho)

I’d really like to see him based on his sword style in Warriors with some of those specials. He could always have been more than a slow Falcon clone, and it’s past time the Zelda series stops being so cloney.
 

SS2000

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#5
I'm not holding my breath for a de-cloned Ganondorf... We know Sakurai is running things again and does seem set in his ways in regards to never changing certain things no matter how much people beg (Ganondorf being the prime example, which is especially sad considering there are many ways to please everybody, like the idea of giving Ganondorf's old move set to Black Shadow). It makes me so sad to think of all the wasted potential of the arguably most iconic villain in gaming history that has happened all because of the dumb choice to make him a clone in one single game due to time restraints. If only there was a way to go back in time and just prevent the Ganster from being included at all in Melee... Then we could dream of the many endless, fun, exciting possibilities of what we could do as the Gan-Man in Smash. It was twenty years ago that I first played Ocarina of Time, and I still remember the epic feel of my first fight with Ganondorf like it was yesterday. Just from that one game alone you could make a full fledged Smash move set; imagining what he'd do in smash was so exciting... just to have all dreams be destroyed by the reveal of Falcondorf. As more games have come and gone, the possibilities for a Zelda inspired move set have only grown ever greater... only to have Falcondorf remain... I feel like I would rather just see Ganondorf cut altogether than see him return as a clone yet again. I don't know if my old heart could take it. :sadeyes:
Oh well, for now I guess I can at least pretend we were blessed with somebody that aims to please, instead. Ganondorf Is a character that deserves multiple outfits based off his main appearances, and deserves a move set inspired by his many appearances. Making his OoT, TP, and HW appearnaces different costumes shouldn't be hard (Not sure if WW could work well in that set). As for a move set, Ganny has so much move potentail that it's hard to even think of where to begin...
 
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#9
First time I ever saw Ganondorf as a character was in Melee. So, it was my first look at him, and I loved playing as the Prince of Gerudo. Therefore I'm quite Nostalgic about that costume. When he had these locks in his hair in Brawl I was sort of disgusted a little. Still, I got used to it.
 

FunAtParties

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#11
First time I ever saw Ganondorf as a character was in Melee. So, it was my first look at him, and I loved playing as the Prince of Gerudo. Therefore I'm quite Nostalgic about that costume. When he had these locks in his hair in Brawl I was sort of disgusted a little. Still, I got used to it.
I prefer that slimmer look too, but that's because I'm biased to that OoT look.
 

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#12
Sadly, I’ve kinda given up on him being decently improved, whether in moveset or statistically (slight speed buff, etc). When he hasn’t been given any notable changes this long, it’s hard to see it happening now. Melee ‘Dorf would be nice at this point even, although he was a bit more clone-ish and I would miss his current side special.
 

TeddyBearYoshi

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#13
I'm in the boat of "please make Ganondorf actually like Ganondorf". Give him swords, give him magic, give him floating. Just make him feel like Ganondorf and not like a Captain Falcon clone.

I personally wouldn't mind with them using his moveset for Black Shadow, since it's obvious a lot of people appreciate the playstyle in itself.

While I personally like his Twilight Princess appearance, I definitely hope they use the Hyrule Warriors one for this new game. I think the TP Ganondorf just clashes a little too much with the BotW one. (Also the HW one just looks way better in my opinion.)
 
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#14
Before Sm4sh came out, or at least revealed Ganondorf as a character, I had come up with a perfectly-Ganon/dorf type of moveset that could give him the power he's known for, a little bit of magic, and some extra range in his attacks.

Basically, forget giving him swords. Give him HIS TRIDENT!

He may retain some of his more fitting moves from Brawl and Sm4sh, but the rest of his attacks change. Let me go into my ideas, I'll try to use some images as visual aid if I can.

Ganondorf, in whatever appearance he may take, calmly stands at the ready with the trident held in his right hand. It matches him it length.


(Credits to ZeldAnime, OniChild, and Crazyfreak for this insane artwork of Ganon. Imagine the Trident in his right hand, however.)

Standard Attack (Jab): With his unarmed left hand, he calmly thrusts his palm out forward and bats away foes in close range with an electric shock. A.K.A. His Melee jab.


Up Strong Attack (Up-tilt): His current up-tilt, the Volcano Kick. Honestly, this move is just too amazing to lose. It may stand. Give it some super armor, forcing the foe to evade instead of trying to hit Ganon out of the attempt. The vacuum effect is still present.

Down Strong Attack (Down-tilt): His current down-tilt, where he extends his foot and just kicks the crap outta whatever might be in front of him.

Forward Strong Attack (Forward-tilt): SPARTA KICK. Yes, this can stay too.

Dash Attack: He thrusts the trident forward, like his dash attack with a Beam Sword.

Forward Smash: Ganondorf grips the trident with both hands and performs a large, and surprisingly not slow, overhead swing with the trident.



Up Smash: He twirls the trident above his head as a multiple hitting attack that draws foes in, but then he stops it and slams the bottom of the pole into the ground, causing a small explosion of dark energy to shoot out of the prongs at the top as the launching hit.


(Yes, I just borrowed Mercy from Overwatch, but you get what I'm saying.)

Down Smash: He quickly spins the pronged side of the trident downwards and thrusts it into the ground, causing two blasts of darkness on both sides. The explosions are single hit launchers that negate projectiles.


(Ignore the weapon swinging at the beginning, the end is the reference point.)

(Example of the energy blasts on the sides)

Standard Special (Neutral B): THE WARLOCK PUNCH! (Sm4sh's left-handed, reversible, and armored, variant). He needed a stupid strong attack with shorter range to make for the range he gained with the trident. This is mostly a punish tool as before, but slightly beefier to better reward proper reads and shield breaks.

Forward Special (Side B): The Flame Choke! Honestly, this is perhaps one of the coolest moves ever introduced to Smash, and removing it would be criminal. Keep the Sm4sh variant specifically, but let Ganny act out of it sooner by a frame or two, just in case the opponent manages to tech the floor hit. GANONCIDES FOR THE WIN!

Upward Special (Up B): Trident Warp. This move, lifted from classic Ganon, has Ganondorf hurl his whirling spear through the air, it travels a decent distance as Ganondorf vanishes towards the trident and reappears to catch it.


(Consider it a combination of Ike's Aether and a teleportation recovery. The trident goes where the player controls it, and it bats away enemies. Ganondorf is intangible and untouchable mid warp.)

Downward Special (Down B): Dead Man's Volley! I've decided to replace the Wizard's Foot instead of the Warlock Punch. Let's be honest, the Wizard's Foot brought Ganon closer to Falcon as a clone much more than is necessary.
Ganondorf summons an energy ball—the size of Mewtwo's Shadow Ball—at the head of his Trident, and lobs it forward. This is a persistent projectile, meaning it continues traveling and does not disappear until it collides with something or goes off screen. It travels rather slow at first, however, it has a special property that if other players' attacks hit it, or it is reflected, it gains speed and power and is sent back the way it came.
Ganondorf is free to hit it back too. Eventually the ball will max out at the speed and power of Max Aura Lucarios' Arua Sphere. If done in the air, Ganondorf will stop falling and hover to launch the volley at a diagonal downwards angle.


(Without the arm slam before the energy ball)

(The aerial variant)

Speaking of aerials...

Standard Aerial (Neutral Air): He covers his body with his trident and begins to spin it, covering him in the whirling motion. Multiple hits. (Palutena's Neutral Air).


(Pretty much this but bigger.)

Upward Aerial (Up Air): He spins his trident above his head as a multi-hitting move.



Forward Aerial (Forward Air): He takes a large, one-handed overhead swing with the trident. The longest range disjointed attack he has. Comparable to Corrin's Forward Smash and Side-B attack lengths in direct proportion to Ganondorf's body size. The arc covers less vertical space than Ike's, so around Cloud's Foward air arc. The head of the trident has a tipper sweetspot.
(Sorry, no image possible for this one.)

Downward Aerial (Down Air): The Stomp. Yeah, one this isn't going anywhere either.

Backward Aerial (Back Air): Ganondorf quickly turns, grabs the trident with both hands, and swings the trident at an upwards angle. (Cloud's Back air)


Now for the grabs.

When grabbing, Ganondorf extends his left arm ALL THE WAY. He remains standing upright, though, and does not lean into the grab cutting the range shorter than it could've been, but still longer than it used to be. Essentially, he looks like he's not even trying.

Forward Throw: Ganondorf summons an energy ball and detonates it in he foe's face, launching them away. Kill throw at really high percents, while at the ledge, facing the blast zone.

Down Throw: Ganondorf hovers up off the ground, and hurls the victim straight beneath him onto the ground. He proceeds to land on the character with a downward trident plunge. This soft launches the foe like Ganon's current down throw, so it's meant for follow ups; the launch is slightly further due to trident range.

Up Throw: Ganondorf effortlessly tosses the foe upwards and then thrusts the trident upwards st them and jabs them with its prongs, causing a strong launch. Effectively, a kill throw at higher percentages.

Back Throw: Ganon turns to the other side and hits the foe away with a trident golf swing.

Edit: After the nightly backup, some of the images don't work on the post despite them showing up in my editor. I'm hoping they come back in time, but I'll check tomorrow.
 
Last edited:

FunAtParties

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#15
Before Sm4sh came out, or at least revealed Ganondorf as a character, I had come up with a perfectly-Ganon/dorf type of moveset that could give him the power he's known for, a little bit of magic, and some extra range in his attacks.

Basically, forget giving him swords. Give him HIS TRIDENT!

He may retain some of his more fitting moves from Brawl and Sm4sh, but the rest of his attacks change. Let me go into my ideas, I'll try to use some images as visual aid if I can.

Ganondorf, in whatever appearance he may take, calmly stands at the ready with the trident held in his right hand. It matches him it length.


(Credits to ZeldAnime, OniChild, and Crazyfreak for this insane artwork of Ganon. Imagine the Trident in his right hand, however.)

Standard Attack (Jab): With his unarmed left hand, he calmly thrusts his palm out forward and bats away foes in close range with an electric shock. A.K.A. His Melee jab.


Up Strong Attack (Up-tilt): His current up-tilt, the Volcano Kick. Honestly, this move is just too amazing to lose. It may stand. Give it some super armor, forcing the foe to evade instead of trying to hit Ganon out of the attempt. The vacuum effect is still present.

Down Strong Attack (Down-tilt): His current down-tilt, where he extends his foot and just kicks the crap outta whatever might be in front of him.

Forward Strong Attack (Forward-tilt): SPARTA KICK. Yes, this can stay too.

Dash Attack: He thrusts the trident forward, like his dash attack with a Beam Sword.

Forward Smash: Ganondorf grips the trident with both hands and performs a large, and surprisingly not slow, overhead swing with the trident.



Up Smash: He twirls the trident above his head as a multiple hitting attack that draws foes in, but then he stops it and slams the bottom of the pole into the ground, causing a small explosion of dark energy to shoot out of the prongs at the top as the launching hit.


(Yes, I just borrowed Mercy from Overwatch, but you get what I'm saying.)

Down Smash: He quickly spins the pronged side of the trident downwards and thrusts it into the ground, causing two blasts of darkness on both sides. The explosions are single hit launchers that negate projectiles.


(Ignore the weapon swinging at the beginning, the end is the reference point.)

(Example of the energy blasts on the sides)

Standard Special (Neutral B): THE WARLOCK PUNCH! (Sm4sh's left-handed, reversible, and armored, variant). He needed a stupid strong attack with shorter range to make for the range he gained with the trident. This is mostly a punish tool as before, but slightly beefier to better reward proper reads and shield breaks.

Forward Special (Side B): The Flame Choke! Honestly, this is perhaps one of the coolest moves ever introduced to Smash, and removing it would be criminal. Keep the Sm4sh variant specifically, but let Ganny act out of it sooner by a frame or two, just in case the opponent manages to tech the floor hit. GANONCIDES FOR THE WIN!

Upward Special (Up B): Trident Warp. This move, lifted from classic Ganon, has Ganondorf hurl his whirling spear through the air, it travels a decent distance as Ganondorf vanishes the trident and reappears to catch it.


(Consider it a combination of Ike's Aether and a teleportation recovery. The trident goes where the player controls it, and it bats away enemies. Ganondorf is intangible and untouchable mid warp.)

Downward Special (Down B): Dead Man's Volley! I've decided to replace the Wizard's Foot instead of the Warlock Punch. Let's be honest, the Wizard's Foot brought Ganon closer to Falcon as a clone much more than is necessary.
Ganondorf summons an energy ball—the size of Mewtwo's Shadow Ball—at the head of his Trident, and lobs it forward. This is a persistent projectile, meaning it continues traveling and does not disappear until it collides with something or goes off screen. It travels rather slow at first, however, it has a special property that if other players' attacks hit it, or it is reflected, it gains speed and power and is sent back the way it came.
Ganondorf is free to hit it back too. Eventually the ball will max out at the speed and power of Max Aura Lucarios' Arua Sphere. If done in the air, Ganondorf will stop falling and hover to launch the volley at a diagonal downwards angle.


(Without the arm slam before the energy ball)

(The aerial variant)

Speaking of aerials...

Standard Aerial (Neutral Air): He covers his body with his trident and begins to spin it, covering him in the whirling motion. Multiple hits. (Palutena's Neutral Air).


(Pretty much this but bigger.)

Upward Aerial (Up Air): He spins his trident above his head as a multi-hitting move.



Forward Aerial (Forward Air): He takes a large, one-handed overhead swing with the trident. The longest range disjointed attack he has. Comparable to Corrin's Forward Smash and Side-B attack lengths in direct proportion to Ganondorf's body size. The arc covers less vertical space than Ike's, so around Cloud's Foward air arc. The head of the trident has a tipper sweetspot.
(Sorry, no image possible for this one.)

Downward Aerial (Down Air): The Stomp. Yeah, one this isn't going anywhere either.

Backward Aerial (Back Air): Ganondorf quickly turns, grabs the trident with both hands, and swings the trident at an upwards angle. (Cloud's Back air)



Now for the grabs.

When grabbing, Ganondorf extends his left arm ALL THE WAY. He remains standing upright, though, and does not lean into the grab cutting the range shorter than it could've been, but still longer than it used to be. Essentially, he looks like he's not even trying.

Forward Throw: Ganondorf summons an energy ball and detonates it in he foe's face, launching them away. Kill throw at really high percents, while at the ledge, facing the blast zone.

Down Throw: Ganondorf hovers up off the ground, and hurls the victim straight beneath him onto the ground. He proceeds to land on the character with a downward trident plunge. This soft launches the foe like Ganon's current down throw, so it's meant for follow ups; the launch is slightly further due to trident range.

Up Throw: Ganondorf effortlessly tosses the foe upwards and then thrusts the trident upwards st them and jabs them with its prongs, causing a strong launch. Effectively, a kill throw at higher percentages.

Back Throw: Ganon turns to the other side and hits the foe away with a trident golf swing.

Edit: After the nightly backup, some of the images don't work on the post despite them showing up in my editor. I'm hoping they come back in time, but I'll check tomorrow.
I like this kit, and support the trident above all other weapons. Good work
 
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#16
Four things I want out of Ganondorf

1. Dead Man's Volley, the rest can stay the same for all I care, but Dead Man's volley is the move he needs the most

2. Smile damn it. You're a cocky king, not a grumpy grandpa

3. New Voice, I hate his Twilight voice.

4. Cape, he can have his Hyrule Warriors design somewhere, I just want at least one of his designs to keep his cape as always.
 

Quillion

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#17
Speaking as someone who once wanted Ganondorf to have a new moveset. I'd say he's fine the way he is.

Yeah, people complain that he's not using a sword, trident, or magic, but no one complains that Mario isn't using his hammer...
 

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#18
Speaking as someone who once wanted Ganondorf to have a new moveset. I'd say he's fine the way he is.

Yeah, people complain that he's not using a sword, trident, or magic, but no one complains that Mario isn't using his hammer...
I feel as though the complaint has more to do with the fact that he is an F-Zero character missing his car than a lack of any one aspect.
 

Morbi

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#20
And yet people want him to be a heavy weapon wielder like Ike.
That is just a generalization. I want him to be a magic user, which he already closely resembles. A trident, while large, would not really make him a heavy weapon wielder, per se. At the end of the day, all I am saying is that if Bowser was a clone of Captain Falcon (which is about the closest comparison), people WOULD have a problem. It has nothing to do with the weapon.

At this point, I am positive most people would be fine if they just added a few new attributes to his kit in general.
 

Quillion

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#21
That is just a generalization. I want him to be a magic user, which he already closely resembles. A trident, while large, would not really make him a heavy weapon wielder, per se. At the end of the day, all I am saying is that if Bowser was a clone of Captain Falcon (which is about the closest comparison), people WOULD have a problem. It has nothing to do with the weapon.

At this point, I am positive most people would be fine if they just added a few new attributes to his kit in general.
But does Roy need a fire sword beam like in the Binding Blade? Does DK need a barrel throw or his coconut gun?

It can be argued that those characters need projectiles as well yet no one complains about them.
 

SS2000

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#22
But does Roy need a fire sword beam like in the Binding Blade?
Yes.
Does DK need a barrel throw or his coconut gun?
Absolutely!
It can be argued that those characters need projectiles as well yet no one complains about them.
I'm complaining! In fact, why stop there? Ike needs a sword beam, too. He's known for it in his games, yet I seem to recall Sakurai saying somewhere that Ike didn't get that 'cause he'd be OP... yet he then goes and gives cloud an even crazier sword beam! And what about Link? Link, the man that invented sword beams. He still doesn't have one! lol If you want to know the reason people make a much bigger deal out of Ganondorf than other cases, think of it like this:
glasses.jpg

The glass of on the left represents Link. There could still be room for more there, but it's enough to leave most content. The glass on the right represents Ganondorf. You might say, "Don't think of the glass as 90% empty, think of it as 10% full!" But if somebody were served that glass for two decades when they could so easily be served a full one ten times over, doesn't it only make sense they'd be complaining?
At this point, him being a Fat Falcon just feels like a disgrace to the character and an insult to his fans.

And him having a sword wouldn't make him an Ike clone. He could have a sword, a pair of two swords, a trident, no weapon at all, or a mix of all that and be made 100% unique in countless ways.
 
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Quillion

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#24
At this point, him being a Fat Falcon just feels like a disgrace to the character and an insult to his fans.
Please read this article:

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/07/ganondorf-smash-bros/

Ganondorf embodies the characteristics of a Zelda boss: large, imposing, slow and powerful. He has moves from Zelda or were brought into Zelda: a kick from TP, and elbow that made it into TP, and a magic charged punch. Speaking of, yes, he does use magic, it's just that he focuses it into his limbs instead of firing it out, but he's shown to be more than capable of doing the former in many Zelda games.

Is he associated with magic projectiles in Zelda? Sure.

But Mario is associated with stomping on enemies yet Mario doesn't have a stomp move. No one's complaining about that. Before you say footstooling, characters like Captain Falcon, DK, and Ness all had stomping moves before footstooling came in.
 
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Quillion

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#26
In short, your of the "I'm happy the glass is 10% full" mindset. Until the day that Ganny actually has a de-cloned move set akin to what many of us dreamed of getting two decades ago and several times since, we will continue to be disappointed as we see the glass as 90% empty.
But it's not 10% full. Both major and minor aspects of characters are added and discarded in the process of translating them to Smash.

For example: Ness. His signature PSI attack is PK Rockin'. He has some status moves like Paralysis, Hypnosis, and Flash. He can make a shield from physical attacks around himself, one of which reflects some damage back. He most prominently uses a bat for attacking.

Now, what does Ness have in Smash? No PK Rockin', no Paralysis, no Hypnosis, no physical shield, and only ONE bat move and Flash.

Do people complain about Ness? No, because they're happy with the characteristics of his character that he represents in Smash.

Therefore, people who complain about Ganondorf are holding him to an unfair double standard.
 

SS2000

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#27
Both major and minor aspects of characters are added and discarded in the process of translating them to Smash.
And in the case of Ganondorf, they discarded things people wanted, and added things people didn't want. Which means this is a case where many fans were let down, and redoing it in a way that pleases them is the only thing that will make them content in regards to this particular thing.
people who complain about Ganondorf are holding him to an unfair double standard.
Or they're just people that are fans of Ganondorf and don't give a hoot about Ness. They're just people that thought he had awesome moves in his source games and dreamed of using that awesomeness in Smash. Back in the days before Melee, after just having fought him in OoT, I always thought he'd be an awesome character in Smash with plenty of unique moves from that game alone, never mind the previous Zelda games. That's why we were disappointed when he wound up having nothing at all from his source games in Melee. The glass was completely empty. Then Brawl comes along and we all thought this was his chance to be completely revamped to give us what we'd dreamed of before. Nope, just a couple of minor changes to a couple moves that resembled a couple moves from the most recent game. So now the glass is 10% full. And it has remained as such every since. I actually wished other characters would get updates with them having many new fun things in new games; I look at Mario and wonder why he still has FLUDD and certain other things after all this time considering all the new things he has now. That feeling is especially true for Ganondorf. He has appeared in more games and shown off plenty of new stuff, and each time it just makes me wish all the more he'd be changed in Smash so we could have the full cup like what we dreamed of back in the day. So complaints about other characters exist and I've got plenty for other characters. But this thread is about Ganondorf; if we are going to complain about Ness not being properly represented, let's do it in the Ness thread. If it's a question of why you hear far more people complain about Ganondorf than Ness, it's because Ganondorf is waaaaay more renowned than Ness. All the more reason he's more deserving of a new move set.
 
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FunAtParties

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#28
But it's not 10% full. Both major and minor aspects of characters are added and discarded in the process of translating them to Smash.

For example: Ness. His signature PSI attack is PK Rockin'. He has some status moves like Paralysis, Hypnosis, and Flash. He can make a shield from physical attacks around himself, one of which reflects some damage back. He most prominently uses a bat for attacking.

Now, what does Ness have in Smash? No PK Rockin', no Paralysis, no Hypnosis, no physical shield, and only ONE bat move and Flash.

Do people complain about Ness? No, because they're happy with the characteristics of his character that he represents in Smash.

Therefore, people who complain about Ganondorf are holding him to an unfair double standard.
People definitely complain about Ness. It's just that Earthbound is much less popular than LoZ so people aren't as familiar with Ness' canon moveset
 
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#29
Ganon, and by extension Ganondorf, has been around for much longer than Ness, and has had a SIGNIFICANTLY greater impact than Ness has ever had. Ganondorf's been in more games, each one outselling Earthbound, and has been a fan favorite for far longer.

Now, I say all that to say this: Comparing Ness and Ganondorf is a bad idea.

Yes, it's true that Ness doesn't have his own moves he's known for specifically.
But at least he isn't a CLONE.
More than that, at least he isn't a CLONE of a character from a DIFFERENT SERIES of absolutely NO RELATION.


Unlike Ganondorf, Ness has a unique moveset, with abilities that actually appear in his game; so there's a proper connection with the source material.

Since when has Ganondorf ever performed the Wizard's Foot?
Since when did anyone in the Legend of Zelda SERIES perform the Wizard's Foot?!



Ganondorf's moveset in Smash has no connection with his source material whatsoever. This needs to be rectified.
 
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Xeno610

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#30
Sakurai has a clear bias towards Ganondorf being a clone... and I don't think it's changing here. He is my favorite villain and he deserves better than this.
With how mediocre Ganondorf has been performing in the past few games (Brawl and 4 especially), it's definitely time to give him an overhaul.
My moveset for him is a combination of his sword and physical attacks.
Specials:
Neutral: Dead Man's Volley: Ganondorf shoots a projectile that can easily be reflected like King Dedede's Gordos, but he can reflect it back unlike King Dedede. It starts off slow, but it gets faster with each hit.
Side: Flame Choke: This remains the same.
Up: Dark Teleport: Ganondorf teleports in this recovery. The beginning and the end of the recovery deal minor damage and knockback.
Down: Cape Reflector: Ganondorf uses his cape to reflect projectiles, similar to his fight in Ocarina of Time.

Ground:
Neutral: Ganondorf does a stab forward. Think of his current neutral, but now with a long sword.
Side tilt: Ganondorf does a forward kick, which is his current forward tilt.
Side smash: Ganondorf swings his sword downward vertical slash and pressing the attack button will do a horizontal slash.
Down tilt: Ganondorf's current down tilt is fine.
Down smash: Ganondorf stabs his sword downward and emits electrical shocks in front of him and behind him
Up tilt: His current up tilt, but with the sword instead.
Up smash: His current up smash.
Dash: Ganondorf runs and does a vertical slice downwards. This is a reference to Chance in his boss fight in Twilight Princess.

Grabs:
Pummel: Ganondorf does dark damage and chokes the enemy.
Forward throw: Ganondorf engulfs the enemy in a dark sphere and then pushes it with his elbow. The projectile also does damage to other enemies in front of him and cannot be reflected. This is similar to an attack he has in Hyrule Warriors.
Down throw: Ganondorf does a downwards thrust that launches the enemy upwards.
Back throw: Ganondorf levitates the enemy and throws him behind him.
Up throw: Ganondorf punches the enemy upwards with an electrical shock coming from the ground.

Aerials:
Neutral: Ganondorf spins around with his sword in the air.
Forward: His current forward air.
Down: His current down air.
Back: Ganondorf does a backwards slice. It has a long reach and does a lot of damage.
Up: Ganondorf does an upwards slash similar to Marth's and Robin's up air.

Final Smash: Beast Ganon

The thing that disappoints me with Ganondorf is that he as a lot of material to work with and most of it is ignored.
 

Quillion

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#31
Ganon, and by extension Ganondorf, has been around for much longer than Ness, and has had a SIGNIFICANTLY greater impact than Ness has ever had. Ganondorf's been in more games, each one outselling Earthbound, and has been a fan favorite for far longer.
So Ness has the right to not use his own moves and Ganondorf doesn't because the former isn't that popular while the latter is? Again, that reeks of a double standard.

But at least he isn't a CLONE.
More than that, at least he isn't a CLONE of a character from a DIFFERENT SERIES of absolutely NO RELATION.
Again, you clearly want him to intrude on Ike's niche as a heavy weapon wielder or Mewtwo's niche as a towering energy thrower. This is far worse than him being a clone who occupies a unique niche as the short-ranged extremely heavy brawler.

Unlike Ganondorf, Ness has a unique moveset, with abilities that actually appear in his game; so there's a proper connection with the source material.
You can say the same thing about Zelda, but she uses modified versions of the spells that were used by Link, and in one game at that. Despite her being more associated with light magic and light arrows, no one is disappointed with her portrayal.

So, if Link can punch with explosive force in two games, why can't Ganondorf punch with explosive force in Smash?

Since when has Ganondorf ever performed the Wizard's Foot?
Since when did any of the Star Fox cast charge in a direction covered in flames, dash forward a short distance with blinding speeds, or reflect projectiles back at enemies? About the only thing Smash "gets right" in terms of Star Fox is that they use guns.

But is anyone mad about this? No.

The thing that disappoints me with Ganondorf is that he as a lot of material to work with and most of it is ignored.
Again, I'll quote this:

Please read this article:

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/07/ganondorf-smash-bros/

Ganondorf embodies the characteristics of a Zelda boss: large, imposing, slow and powerful. He has moves from Zelda or were brought into Zelda: a kick from TP, and elbow that made it into TP, and a magic charged punch. Speaking of, yes, he does use magic, it's just that he focuses it into his limbs instead of firing it out, but he's shown to be more than capable of doing the former in many Zelda games.

Is he associated with magic projectiles in Zelda? Sure.

But Mario is associated with stomping on enemies yet Mario doesn't have a stomp move. No one's complaining about that. Before you say footstooling, characters like Captain Falcon, DK, and Ness all had stomping moves before footstooling came in.
 
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#32
So Ness has the right to not use his own moves and Ganondorf doesn't because the former isn't that popular while the latter is? Again, that reeks of a double standard.
This comment doesn't even make sense. Ness is, at the very least, using moves from his game.

Also, popularity matters a lot in Smash; how else do you think we're getting the Inklings? There is no double standard here.

Again, you clearly want him to intrude on Ike's niche as a heavy weapon wielder or Mewtwo's niche as a towering energy thrower. This is far worse than him being a clone who occupies a unique niche as the short-ranged extremely heavy brawler.
Oh, because neither Shulk nor Cloud, nor even King Dedede ever intruded on Ike's heavy sword territory.

And outside of Forward Throw, what sort of energy throwing does Mewtwo perform that Lucario doesn't? Or Robin, Ness, Samus, Lucas, or Zelda?

No, "intruding" on another characters niche, which is a regular occurrence by the way, is a HUGE IMPROVEMENT over being an uninspired clone.

You can say the same thing about Zelda, but she uses modified versions of the spells that were used by Link, and in one game at that. Despite her being more associated with light magic and light arrows, no one is disappointed with her portrayal.
I'm confused, what exactly is this supposed to refute? More than anything, this is justifying Ness' moveset. Also, are you seriously trying to bring in a character that had zero known abilities from the original source material?

Before Melee, Zelda never did anything in her series. People weren't disappointed at her moveset because this was the first time Zelda even had something remotely similar to a moveset.

So, if Link can punch with explosive force in two games, why can't Ganondorf punch with explosive force in Smash?
Donkey Kong and Captain Falcon already do that. I thought you hated when characters intruded on other character's niches?

Also, no one said Ganondorf couldn't do that. If you looked at my earlier posts, specifically the one where I wrote down an entire moveset for Ganondorf, you would see that I kept the Warlock Punch. Having a few similar moves isn't the problem here.

Since when did any of the Star Fox cast charge in a direction covered in flames, dash forward a short distance with blinding speeds, or reflect projectiles back at enemies? About the only thing Smash "gets right" in terms of Star Fox is that they use guns.

But is anyone mad about this? No.
Oh yes, let's bring in other characters who also didn't do anything in their original games until Smash gave them a moveset.
Were you aware that Fox's moves were actually inspired by the Arwings in his games?

Blasters, boosting at higher speeds, reflecting projectiles via a barrel roll. It's all there. Outside of that, the Star Fox characters had nothing. No one is upset that Falco or Wolf were clones of Fox, because they don't have known abilities in their source materials either. The only thing people were bothered by was LANDMASTER.

Ganondorf has moves and abilities in the source material. But he uses nothing from the source material, regardless if it's actually used by him or not.

Hmm, what's the first thing this article says?
"This article has content based on the author’s opinions that shouldn’t be taken as fact."

Ahh yes, an opinion-based analysis of Sakurai's design philosophy. Let's not mention anywhere that Sakurai's philosophy has often changed between games. For example:

https://www.polygon.com/2013/6/26/4...es-mega-man-smash-bros-s-other-new-characters

Second paragraph, "Undaunted, Sakurai soldiered on, devoting most of the column to his reasoning for choosing the three new characters revealed at E3: Mega Man, the Animal Crossing villager, and the Wii Fit trainer. "A lot of people understood Mega Man," he wrote, "but they kept asking me 'Why did you go for the villager and the Wii Fit trainer?', Neither of them are fighting characters, certainly. In fact, we had previously removed the villager from Super Smash Bros. Brawl in the planning stages because he wasn't suited for battle."

Ganondorf embodies the characteristics of a Zelda boss: large, imposing, slow and powerful. He has moves from Zelda or were brought into Zelda: a kick from TP, and elbow that made it into TP, and a magic charged punch. Speaking of, yes, he does use magic, it's just that he focuses it into his limbs instead of firing it out, but he's shown to be more than capable of doing the former in many Zelda games.

Is he associated with magic projectiles in Zelda? Sure.

But Mario is associated with stomping on enemies yet Mario doesn't have a stomp move. No one's complaining about that. Before you say footstooling, characters like Captain Falcon, DK, and Ness all had stomping moves before footstooling came in.
Yes, but in every battle with Ganon or Ganondorf in any of the Zelda games, when does he punch you? Also, the only time where he's slow or lumbering is in Ocarina of Time when he is the massive Ganon, which was an intentional decision that was supposed to be a parallel to Ganondorf who wasn't slow or lumbering. Also take note that Slow and Lumbering OoT Ganon still used swords.

The only time Ganondorf ever punched was Wind Waker, and that was during cutscenes. Every other instance of violence from him, he used a weapon or magic. Nor is he depicted as slow. His power doesn't weigh him down until he becomes 2+ stories tall.

And on top of that, why is his Final Smash—where he turns into Ganon—LITERALLY the fastest attack he has?

All things considered, TP Ganondorf is the slowest of all Ganondorf's incarnations. But when he uses physical attacks, none of them are backed by magic. Ganondorf in TP is overconfident. Brazenly so. He doesn't take Link seriously. He walks during most of the fight, he lets Link perform most of the offense. He's not using magic in this fight because of arrogance, and assurance in the "omnipotence" of his divine power... which fails him.

Compare that to Wind Waker Ganondorf. You know, the one who actually punched someone? Have you seen him move during his fight? He flies around like a frickin ninja. In the introduction to the fight, he dashed over 20 feet to get into Link's face in less than a second, to punch him. Why'd he punch him? To keep him alive.

Those punches weren't lethal, nor were they intended to be. He needed Link alive to get the Triforce. He didn't need weapons or magic to knock out a twelve-year-old boy. Had he wanted to kill him, which is assumed to be the primary goal in every Smash Bros, he would've used his weapons or magic. Every fight with Ganondorf involves weapons or magic.

And for crying out loud, don't make me bring up how Hyrule Warriors gave Ganondorf his proper respect and actually gave him a ton of references to his source material, while being a unique and interesting character to play as.

Heck, the Fire Emblem characters in Smash, have even less individual movesets to rely on for originality due to the "copy paste" fighting style of Fire Emblem, yet even THEY managed to get 4 unique character movesets; that's more than I can say for the Zelda series, which has only 5 playable characters, yet 2 are clones. That's only 3 unique movesets.

And then there's Captain Falcon; a character that had nothing before Smash, just like Zelda and Fox. His moveset is 100% original to Smash, with no source material to use. This is the guy they cloned Ganondorf from. A character whose moves are all made up for this game, used as a template for a character whom had tons to work with already.

Ness is a far cry from Ganondorf's position.
 
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Brother AJ

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#33
You can definitely count me as a supporter of a new moveset, but it seems almost hopeless at this point... I was so freaking ecstatic when I found out he was in melee, but I wish he would’ve never been added if this was what was going to happen. We all could’ve waited in order to not get Falcondorf...

I’ve heard many claim that Sakurai has to consider fans that prefer clone Ganon, but where are all these people? I’d love to actually know why they think this way.
 

DNeon

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#34
Yada yada new moveset yada yada Black Shadow yada yada I support, you get the gist

It's been said a million times, I've said it a bunch already, just adding it to this thread since it's the relevant place to do it.
 

masterluigi1

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#35
I'm not holding my breath for a de-cloned Ganondorf... We know Sakurai is running things again and does seem set in his ways in regards to never changing certain things no matter how much people beg (Ganondorf being the prime example, which is especially sad considering there are many ways to please everybody, like the idea of giving Ganondorf's old move set to Black Shadow). It makes me so sad to think of all the wasted potential of the arguably most iconic villain in gaming history that has happened all because of the dumb choice to make him a clone in one single game due to time restraints. If only there was a way to go back in time and just prevent the Ganster from being included at all in Melee... Then we could dream of the many endless, fun, exciting possibilities of what we could do as the Gan-Man in Smash. It was twenty years ago that I first played Ocarina of Time, and I still remember the epic feel of my first fight with Ganondorf like it was yesterday. Just from that one game alone you could make a full fledged Smash move set; imagining what he'd do in smash was so exciting... just to have all dreams be destroyed by the reveal of Falcondorf. As more games have come and gone, the possibilities for a Zelda inspired move set have only grown ever greater... only to have Falcondorf remain... I feel like I would rather just see Ganondorf cut altogether than see him return as a clone yet again. I don't know if my old heart could take it. :sadeyes:
Oh well, for now I guess I can at least pretend we were blessed with somebody that aims to please, instead. Ganondorf Is a character that deserves multiple outfits based off his main appearances, and deserves a move set inspired by his many appearances. Making his OoT, TP, and HW appearnaces different costumes shouldn't be hard (Not sure if WW could work well in that set). As for a move set, Ganny has so much move potentail that it's hard to even think of where to begin...
Correction...we dont know if Sakurai is running things. we just know hes involved in some way. If he was director im pretty sure his team at Sora would be heading development and not Hal Lab. but like you I hope Ganon gets a overhaul but im not holding out for it
 

Quillion

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#36
NintendoKnight NintendoKnight : Well sir, I must say that you've covered most of your bases. There isn't much I can really say against your argument.

But I still have some issues with it:

This comment doesn't even make sense. Ness is, at the very least, using moves from his game.
So is Ganondorf, but you seem to be glossing over that.

Also, popularity matters a lot in Smash; how else do you think we're getting the Inklings? There is no double standard here.
You missed the point. I can easily argue that Ness disproportionately uses attacks that he shouldn't, yet you excuse that because of his relatively low popularity.

Blasters, boosting at higher speeds, reflecting projectiles via a barrel roll. It's all there. Outside of that, the Star Fox characters had nothing. No one is upset that Falco or Wolf were clones of Fox, because they don't have known abilities in their source materials either. The only thing people were bothered by was LANDMASTER.
Yet I don't see anyone wanting the new weapons in Star Fox Assault to be represented.

Ahh yes, an opinion-based analysis of Sakurai's design philosophy. Let's not mention anywhere that Sakurai's philosophy has often changed between games.
I find it's more convenient for everyone that Sakurai's policies are best assumed "set in stone until proven otherwise." I don't think it's smart to assume just because he'll change his mind on one thing that he'll change his mind with everything else.

Yes, but in every battle with Ganon or Ganondorf in any of the Zelda games, when does he punch you? Also, the only time where he's slow or lumbering is in Ocarina of Time when he is the massive Ganon, which was an intentional decision that was supposed to be a parallel to Ganondorf who wasn't slow or lumbering. Also take note that Slow and Lumbering OoT Ganon still used swords.
He has used kicks and elbow strikes in select battles. If we're being generous, his preincarnation Demise used a punch in the final battle of SS.
 
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#37
NintendoKnight NintendoKnight : Well sir, I must say that you've covered most of your bases. There isn't much I can really say against your argument.

But I still have some issues with it:
Fair enough. I'll respond to what I can.

So is Ganondorf, but you seem to be glossing over that.
Those two attacks change nothing. You're referring to his forward tilt and forward smash, yes? Other than his forward tilt, his forward smash was sheer coincidence since he already used that elbow strike in Melee (which predates Twilight Princess by about 5 years).

Honestly, the closest thing he has to a Zelda inspired move might be his Flame Choke.



In my opinion, it more closely resembles the Sm4sh custom move, Flame Chain, than it does Flame Choke; but that's neither here nor there. Otherwise, this is it. Also, this was performed in cutscene. This attack is never used again, and especially not against Link.

But yes, you're right that his forward tilt was indeed a move he used in Zelda. Of course it didn't drastically change anything for him, but it's a start. A very, very, very small start.

You missed the point. I can easily argue that Ness disproportionately uses attacks that he shouldn't, yet you excuse that because of his relatively low popularity.
I never said Ness didn't deserve new moves. I said not to compare him with Ganondorf. The point is this: our dear, old Ganny deserves a new moveset far more than literally anyone else in the entire Smash Bros. cast.

Popularity determines how much the character is liked, and by how many people. If Ganondorf gets a new moveset, a much greater amount of people will be pleased than if Ness got a new moveset. Earthbound is still a relatively niche series, there'd only be a few people who would be genuinely happy at Ness getting a new moveset. Everyone else would be asking, "Why did they change Ness? He was just fine."

The point is, Ganondorf needs a new moveset, and then you mentioned that Ness' moveset should be updated, almost as if to say Ganon getting one would prevent Ness from getting one. We're not saying Ness doesn't need one. We're saying Ganondorf needs it more. It would please more people, and make a bigger difference overall. That's why popularity matters.

Yet I don't see anyone wanting the new weapons in Star Fox Assault to be represented.
I'd love to see more SFA crap in this series! The Fireburst Pod is my favorite weapon in the whole, dang game, but I think the more popular choice would be the Homing Launcher.

But I think the odds of anything coming from Assault is quite low despite it being my favorite Star Fox game. The series has been on a major decline since Star Fox 64. We're fortunate that we scraped by with Wolf in Brawl having a reference to the Booster Packs with a "Wolfified" version of one on his back, and the Orbital Gate Assault stage in Sm4sh (which no one seems to like other than me). Next to Adventures, Assault was considered the "black sheep" of the series. That title now goes to Zero, which... saddens me just as much. I like that game too. I'm actually hoping the Star Fox characters take their designs from that one.

I find it's more convenient for everyone that Sakurai's policies are best assumed "set in stone until proven otherwise." I don't think it's smart to assume just because he'll change his mind on one thing that he'll change his mind with everything else.
Because we've all been proven wrong before.

Do you know how many of us speculators often denied the Villager's chances of getting into any Smash after Brawl? Do you know how many of us only saw Cloud as a pipe dream? We also claimed that there was no way realistic guns would make it into Smash either; Snake didn't get any, why should anyone else? Yes, I know Bayonetta was a special case. Honestly, it made the concept of realistic guns not being in Smash a little silly. We now have a character with realistic guns, and it's not that big of a deal. (If another character with a gun got in, we probably wouldn't be surprised at this point.)

We try to assume things are set in stone... then Sakurai goes and proves us wrong. The one time we don't want something set in stone, he refuses to budge. There are times where we just can't win with the guy, but then there are times where we couldn't possibly lose. We can never truly know, and only time will tell.

He has used kicks and elbow strikes in select battles. If we're being generous, his preincarnation Demise used a punch in the final battle of SS.
Correction: Ganondorf used kicks and elbow strikes in a single battle: specifically the final boss fight in Twilight Princess. That's literally the only time. Besides, even when he did the elbow strike, he always followed up with a back-handed blade swing. A two-hit combo that used a physical strike and then a sword attack. That could've been a neat forward smash. Heck he's already doing the first half, why not give him the second? They implemented the second into his forward smash when he's using a beam sword. Here's a link to an image of someone effortlessly modded in Ganondorf's sword over the beam sword; It's almost like it was meant to be: https://files.gamebanana.com/img/ss/gamefiles/57c6ed9a105d1.jpg

Regarding Demise, remember that he and Ganondorf are considered two separate characters. Yes, Demise may have thrown punches in his boss fight, but I think it was of greater impact (and much more memorable) when he infused his blade with lightning. I forgot he even had punches they were so insignificant.

This new Smash is the perfect opportunity for things to change. I firmly believe that by changing Link's design, they've committed to changing his moveset as well, because BotW Link doesn't do a number of things Link's typically done in Smash. And seeing as Breath of the Wild is the best-selling Zelda, not adjusting him accordingly would definitely offend a large number of people. WAY more people than anyone who wants Ganondorf to get a new moveset.

And since Link should get a big change, it'd be fitting for Ganondorf to receive one as well.

If Ness gets one in the process, that's fantastic. And I'd be glad for all 10 of those people who'd actually appreciate the change, lol.
 
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Quillion

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#38
NintendoKnight NintendoKnight : Okay, you have defeated me. In the tradition of r/changemyview, I'll give you a Δ.

It seems that there are indeed more people who want certain characters changed than I thought; thus they can't possibly be hypocritical like I thought. That was the crux of my argument, yet people are proving me wrong.

I want to respond to this part, though:

We try to assume things are set in stone... then Sakurai goes and proves us wrong. The one time we don't want something set in stone, he refuses to budge. There are times where we just can't win with the guy, but then there are times where we couldn't possibly lose. We can never truly know, and only time will tell.
Thing is, Zelda isn't really that popular in Japan, and it's only very recently that it has made a comeback over there. Even then, it only corresponds to an upsurge in popularity of open world games that has occurred in Japan around that time.

Because of this, Ganondorf doesn't really have a lot of supporters for a new moveset in Japan, and it would be really difficult to reach Sakurai about that anyway since everyone working with or for Nintendo tends to not listen to fan feedback.
 
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#39
NintendoKnight NintendoKnight : Okay, you have defeated me. In the tradition of r/changemyview, I'll give you a Δ.
It was a pleasure doing battle with you, sir.

It seems that there are indeed more people who want certain characters changed than I thought; thus they can't possibly be hypocritical like I thought. That was the crux of my argument, yet people are proving me wrong.

I want to respond to this part, though:

[Insert my quotation here]

Thing is, Zelda isn't really that popular in Japan, and it's only very recently that it has made a comeback over there. Even then, it only corresponds to an upsurge in popularity of open world games that has occurred in Japan around that time.

Because of this, Ganondorf doesn't really have a lot of supporters for a new moveset in Japan, and it would be really difficult to reach Sakurai about that anyway since everyone working with or for Nintendo tends to not listen to fan feedback.
Well, fan feedback got us Cloud, and looks to be the reason for the Inklings. But I get your point.

Honestly, I couldn't tell you about Ganondorf's popularity in Japan. I know for sure in the US he's a much beloved character, but I think that's probably because we just like Zelda as a series more. I just hate seeing my favorite villain in gaming have to meander about as some shallow representation of himself.

But alas, as you said, it is quite out of our power. We just have to hope. Even if he doesn't change, I'll continue to play him. I'll be majorly disappointed, but I'll keep playing him. Ganondorf was one of my better characters in Melee, I mained him in Brawl for a number of years, and he's in my top 3 in Sm4sh.

He's a legacy character for me, so I just want his legacy to be something other than the slower, stronger Captain Falcon.
 

Quillion

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#40
He's a legacy character for me, so I just want his legacy to be something other than the slower, stronger Captain Falcon.
Well, now that you have defeated me in single debate, I would like to insist that there is a way to make him a sword, trident, AND magic wielding powerhouse with a few brawling attacks... while keeping him a Falcon clone.

I posted this on GameFAQs quite some time ago, then reposted it in the old Veterans thread afterwards. So I feel it's a good time to repost it here:

My goal here is to preserve much of his moveset while changing the animations and also making him balanced. I promise both magic and bladed weapons here, for three reasons: canon, being cool-looking, and let's face it, the poor Gerudo needs some range.

First off, specials:

Neutral B: Warlock Punch -> Warlock Blast: Loosely based off of the "dark waves" thing he before his OoT fight, he raises his hand, focuses dark power into the area in front of him, and triggers a large blast of darkness. For added flavor, the area where the blast will be would be marked with some magical runes similar to Hyrule Warriors. Just like the Warlock Punch, it still has a slow charge, and it's ridiculously powerful if it connects. Only mechanical change would be giving it more range. And yes, it's still reversible, which creates an even bigger blast!

Side B: Flame Choke + Dead Man's Volley: This is a special case, as the move is mostly good as it is. However, I would change the rushing animation to something else for another property: the ability to reflect projectiles. If he connects with an opponent, he chokes them on the ground/chokeslams in the air just as it is. But if he connects with a projectile, just like Pit's Side B, he hits it with a backhand. Unlike Upperdash Arm, he doesn't send the projectile up, but straight back at the opponent! One of the most iconic fixtures of Zelda final bosses can finally be incorporated into him, and he won't be so easily projectile camped with this!

Up B: Dark Dive -> Possession: Even despite the slight animation change in Smash U, the move still leaves a lot to be desired. So what I have in mind would reference him possessing Zelda at the end of TP: Ganondorf turns into a dark mist that rises upward. At the very end of the move if the grab doesn't connect, he transforms back into a Gerudo with a blast so as to preserve the Shoryuken-like thing he does in the move currently. But if the grab connects, his essence enters the opponent, burns him/her from within (is he eating his/her soul? O_O), and then leaps out of the opponent in an explosion. Spooky! Mechanically, the move would be identical to what his current Up B is.

Down B: Wizard's Foot -> Trident of Power: Finally, a bladed weapon! Ganondorf summons his trident, then rushes forward with it on the ground, or dives diagonally downwards with it in the air. Pretty much the same as it is currently is, though, of course, with more range, and maybe a slightly higher hitbox on the ground?

Next, his Smash attacks, all using his bladed weapons.

Side Smash: Pulls out his Sage Sword from TP and does a two-handed lunge. This keeps it fairly similar to his elbow strike animation-wise while adding, again, more range.

Up Smash: Pulls out his Sage Sword and does an upward slash in front of him. No reason for him to do that silly high kick. Just gives the move a much more useful hitbox.

Down Smash: Pulls out his dual swords from WW and slashes low in front, then behind him. Mechanically similar to his current front-back kick, but with, again, more range.

Now for assorted normal changes:

Neutral A: Same as it is now, but adds a magical explosion in front of his hand. The end result would look something like the first hit of Mewtwo's Neutral A, but with a sourspot on the hand but a sweetspot on the blast.

Up Tilt: Again, no reason for him to be this flexible. He instead charges a ball of energy in his hand above him, then throws it downward for a massive explosion. Otherwise identical mechanically.

Neutral air: Pulls out his dual swords and slashes in front of him twice.

Up air: Instead of doing a flash kick (seriously, why would Ganondorf be this acrobatic?) he pulls out his Sage sword and slashes in an arc above him. Has a similar sweeping hitbox to what it has currently, but again, with moar range.

Back air: Similar to current, but fires a magic blast behind him. Once again, simply adds range.

Grab: If there's anything I'm taking from the Project Ganondorf mod, it's this: he telekinetically grabs the opponent. Grabs and throws will probably be the most changed aspect from current Ganondorf.

Pummel: Chokes opponent with dark energy. Aesthetically similar to Mewtwo's pummel.

Throws: Telekinetically throws the opponent in whatever direction the throw is.

TL;DR: I envision Canondorf to essentially be the same as Falcondorf, but with more range. Otherwise, just animations would be revamped; mainly to replace the remaining Falcon animations with more canon ones
 
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