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~95% Combo on DDD

pure_awesome

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
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Montreal, Canada
Chaingrab to Fullhop Dair to Fastfall Silent Laser to Laser Lock to Boost Smash. Gives about 95%, depending on how many lasers you're comfortable fitting into the Lock.

The only way to get out is to tech or airdodge out of the Dair.

Video here.


So why does it work?

The chaingrab must end with DDD at 40% or higher. The closer to 40%, the better. This is the damage at which the Dair (fresh) will pop DDD up instead of just making him flinch. The lower the percent, the lower he goes, the more likely he is to miss the tech/airdodge opportunity.

The Dair must hit with DDD on the ground, not in the air. This is easy, since waiting a moment after the final Dthrow will force DDD into his landing animation, which is vulnerable.

Fastfalling the Laser stuns DDD fast enough that he doesn't have enough time to get up, roll, or get-up attack.

Hitting DDD with four or more Lasers forces him into his get-up animation, meaning you get a free whatever you want, as long as you aren't too far. Boost Smash is the logical candidate for this since it provides nice damage with excellent range.




DDD is the only character that I've found that this entire combo works on, since he is the only character I've found that you can force into a landing animation off the Dthrow and can be laser locked after the Dair. Certain characters, like Ganondorf, simply cannot be Laser Locked properly after the Dair. Other characters, like Metaknight, have a brief window of opportunity to jump out or airdodge before they hit the ground after the Dthrow. I guess on the latter it could still work, but people are generally pretty wary about follow-ups to the chaingrab, so I can't see a Metaknight player intentionally landing and not shielding.

Falco has some cool stuff off of Laser Lock -> Forced Getup, so it's a shame LL is so hard to setup. Four lasers on a prone Metaknight means a free Fsmash, which is always nice.

EDIT: I forgot to mention: DDD doesn't actually require a Fastfall Silent Laser. Fastfall any laser will do, since he's so darn fat. Other characters, however, seem to require Fastfall Silent for it to hit.

Watch the Denzi version here.
 

LanceStern

Smash Lord
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Cool find. Nice work

But what do you mean air dodge the dair? Can I just mash air dodge and get out of it?

Edit: It looks awesome, the only thing I can see is that they wise up and tech the dair.
 

pure_awesome

Smash Lord
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Pretty much, yeah.

There's like two frames right before DDD lands that he can airdodge. Lame, I know.


EDIT: But considering it gives no chance for a get-up, roll, or get-up attack and positions Falco right next to the opponent, I'd say it's still one of our better Laser Lock setups.
 

Tommy_G

Smash Champion
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Mar 20, 2008
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Do this one, after the CG, short hop down air fast fall and full hop down air. after the second hit see how much stun vs knock back it has.
 

pure_awesome

Smash Lord
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Do this one, after the CG, short hop down air fast fall and full hop down air. after the second hit see how much stun vs knock back it has.
Yeah, I had tried that in hopes that stale moves would help out. That version goes:

Chaingrab to 25% -> Pummel -> Dthrow -> Shorthop Dair -> Fullhop Dair.

It ends up giving DDD a bit more time to react and tech since the first Dair puts him at 47%, although it seems so minute that it's barely even worth mentioning. It's a solid mixup, but unfortunately didn't have the effect I was hoping for.

Though that's not to say that it might not work with other characters that way, or even slightly varied. I haven't tested this very thoroughly. An extremely stale Dair doesn't pop DDD up until like 100%, and then pops him up very low. So it's possible that there's a way to work that in, perhaps using the Dthrow->Dair-> Regrab chaingrab.

smashville is small, i'm guessing if this actually works most of the time. Ddd will ban the level just to save some %
You can get around small stages by reversing the laser. Just fullhop Dair and move to the far side of DDD, then reverse your Laser and he'll travel back towards where you started the chaingrab. Plus, the first few throws of the chaingrab, you barely have to move forward at all to get the regrab. Combine that with Boost Grab for stage positioning, and you can pull it off in a surpisingly small area.
 

Vlade

Social Outcast
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It's a real shame this doesn't work on other character >_>

Nice find though pure, very creative thinking.

We should try and test for almost guaranteed laserlock follow-ups, and other CG follow-ups. I wonder if footstools after CG have any potential? Probably not.
 

PK-ow!

Smash Lord
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Canada, ON
Cool find. Nice work
How can you respond with such plainness? :O

Ninety-five percent. For an early grab.

Ye Falcos have become prideful and heady with your privileges! Drink from the sobering springs of humility, and be reborn!

[/evangelism]

I'll be using this to show a certain duck in my area a thing or two... eheheheheh...
 

Blad01

Smash Lord
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Mar 2, 2008
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Yeah I discovered this a few months ago, but actually most of the players will airdodge out of the Dair easily :/
So I didn't try to go any further ^^

But yeah this could work from time tom time... Or once on a good players :s

EDIT : Actually it seems harder for DDD to airdodge, he hasn't that much room :) Nice find ^^
But I'm sure a good player would tech :x
 

Tommy_G

Smash Champion
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Even if he does tech, Falco's tech chasing is amazing.
Tech roll away= phantasm before you hit the ground into aerial(uair, bair, or nair probably)
Tech roll into you=bair into lasers or phantasm depending on stage position.
Tech in place= another Dair into possibly a grab like pure said in my post or an up tilt which sets up for more aerials
 

pure_awesome

Smash Lord
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If you want to give yourself the option of tech chasing, you can replace the fullhop Dair with a shorthop. This does work on DDD, but screws the "combo" up on other characters, so I hadn't mentioned it before.

This takes out the fastfall laser. Just autocancel the SHDair and go right into the Laser Lock. This... I don't know, it seems easier to airdodge out of, somehow, despite obviously being the exact same thing. But even if they do airdodge out of it, you're right there to punish, you just need to react quickly.


EDIT: The big message here is that we have a pretty good opportunity on the characters that we can force into a landing animation at higher percents (DDD, Ganondorf, etc.) that we should probably look into. For example, Chaingrab to Dthrow at 28% on Fox to ShDair to Laser Lock to Walking Fsmash nets about 80% and sets up very nicely for the edgeguard. And Fox has even less time to tech/airdodge than DDD does. Edgeguard Fox's predictable recovery with your awesome Bair and you've essentially got yourself a 0-Death combo with only one chance to escape.
 

Hawks go Caw

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If you want to give yourself the option of tech chasing, you can replace the fullhop Dair with a shorthop. This does work on DDD, but screws the "combo" up on other characters, so I hadn't mentioned it before.

This takes out the fastfall laser. Just autocancel the SHDair and go right into the Laser Lock. This... I don't know, it seems easier to airdodge out of, somehow, despite obviously being the exact same thing. But even if they do airdodge out of it, you're right there to punish, you just need to react quickly.


EDIT: The big message here is that we have a pretty good opportunity on the characters that we can force into a landing animation at higher percents (DDD, Ganondorf, etc.) that we should probably look into. For example, Chaingrab to Dthrow at 28% on Fox to ShDair to Laser Lock to Walking Fsmash nets about 80% and sets up very nicely for the edgeguard. And Fox has even less time to tech/airdodge than DDD does. Edgeguard Fox's predictable recovery with your awesome Bair and you've essentially got yourself a 0-Death combo with only one chance to escape.
Sounds like good stuff.

I'm going to try this out as soon as Spring Break gets here. We should try all these things at whacky percentages/staleness and stuff.
 

gunterrsmash01

Smash Champion
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Mar 25, 2007
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this is very impressive however i must mention that its a very common habit for players to airdodge after getting hit, plus can't they just attack as well? to cancel the animation.

unless the D3 does absolutely nothing after the dair, it probably wont work most of the time

still, impressive and awesome
 
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Too bad none of this so far is guranteed. It's a nice start when looking at the stuff pikachu's CGs and everything recently.
 

Denzi

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Is it possible that you could net more damage by continuing the laserlock outside of DACUS range? With Boost Pivot Grabs, it's not unreasonable to be able to finish the CG -> start the LL at an edge facing the stage.
 

pure_awesome

Smash Lord
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Too bad none of this so far is guranteed. It's a nice start when looking at the stuff pikachu's CGs and everything recently.
It's all guaranteed except Dair -> Laser Lock, if that's what you mean. But yeah, it'd be awesome if it was guaranteed.

Is it possible that you could net more damage by continuing the laserlock outside of DACUS range? With Boost Pivot Grabs, it's not unreasonable to be able to finish the CG -> start the LL at an edge facing the stage.
Yep. Just chaingrab to the edge and reverse your laser. Gets an extra 20-30%, but there's no follow-up opportunity unfortunately.

Watch the Denzi version here.

Few notes:

Boost grabbing DDD at higher percents is different than Boost Grabbing other characters. If you boost right away after the Dthrow, you'll miss. You need to run a bit, then grab DDD during the forced landing animation, rather than out of the air like you do with most characters. Of course, this is something everyone should know anyway.

Fullhop Dair Fastfall Laser must be used. SHDair won't get you to the other side of DDD, since he's so darn fat.
 

Hawks go Caw

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It's all guaranteed except Dair -> Laser Lock, if that's what you mean. But yeah, it'd be awesome if it was guaranteed.



Yep. Just chaingrab to the edge and reverse your laser. Gets an extra 20-30%, but there's no follow-up opportunity unfortunately.

Watch the Denzi version here.

Few notes:

Boost grabbing DDD at higher percents is different than Boost Grabbing other characters. If you boost right away after the Dthrow, you'll miss. You need to run a bit, then grab DDD during the forced landing animation, rather than out of the air like you do with most characters. Of course, this is something everyone should know anyway.

Fullhop Dair Fastfall Laser must be used. SHDair won't get you to the other side of DDD, since he's so darn fat.
Denzi version even though all he did was ask >_> . . . . Looks beautiful though.

You said that this works on other character's too right?
 

DEHF

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you don't have to do a full hop dair short hop dair works too
 

Denzi

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Good find. Sadly laser locking is banned. I guess one laser to boost smash can work.
:laugh:

That really depends on the TO/ your region. It really happens so little that it shouldn't affect the game that much. I don't understand the few places that ban it, but whatever.
 

pure_awesome

Smash Lord
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What? Who the hell bans laser locking?

That's ridiculous. It's way more situational than the IC's chaingrabs, way easier to avoid, and isn't even 0-death, and people aren't even sure whether or not we should ban those.

Also, one laser to boost smash would unfortunately NOT work. The game requires multiple hits before it will force a downed character into a getup animation. One laser would just hit DDD and he would have the option of getup attack, rolling, getting up, or just lying there.

Not that this should be a problem since no self-respecting TO with an iota of knowledge of competitive smash would ban it, and there's no way it would ever be banned at any tourney that were important.

The Street Fighter community is right. We are ban-happy.
 

thkthebest

Smash Rookie
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May 7, 2008
Messages
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Am I the only one who can't get the silent laser to come out? I fastfall my dair and then I try to laser, but the gun never fully comes out. >< I have to wait till my Falco is grounded.
 

zyklon

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Am I the only one who can't get the silent laser to come out? I fastfall my dair and then I try to laser, but the gun never fully comes out. >< I have to wait till my Falco is grounded.
This.
Seriously I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. The laser never comes out until after the ground if I fastfall after the dair finishes, anyone have any tips on this? I got down every other AT super-easy... honestly this is the first thing in this game I haven't been able to successfully pull off
 

#HBC | ZoZo

Shocodoro Blagshidect
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what happened to the name color?

to above, silent laser is pure practice, just repeat repeat and youll get it down

aprils first ftw
 
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Just thinking about something that might make this not possible.

If one does the FH dair while DDD is in the air from the Dthrow he will just get spiked down to the ground and have no rebound upwards. It is when DDD is grounded and dair is made contact with that DDD bounces up so high. So I was thinking that all DDD has to do is hold the shield button and as soon as he hits the ground after Dthrow the shield will come up and it will powershield the hit.

Now, I haven't tested this out, but I think it would work. The only way I see this not working is if the dthrow at ~43% has enough hitstun that even once DDD hits the ground he is still in hitstun. But I think that the hitstun cancels out once DDD hits the ground at ~43%.

Another thing. I know you can buffer moves so they come out as soon as the frames allow it. But can you buffer moves in hitstun?
 

rolrctermaniac

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Jan 9, 2009
Messages
141
Okay i tested this on a lvl 9 cpu and airdodged before i was even at the top of my jump. the only way this will work is if the opponend doesnt know whats going on......
 
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