Official 4BR Tier List V4 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[WiFi]

AC is good. I'm not too surprised that he beat Cosmos, as AC is the second-best MK after MKLeo. Also, this tournament has had a crazy amount of upsets, and as I predicted, none of the Shulks made top 8. Congrats to Raito though, he is on fire. He really has become the god of DHD.

 

[Ordeaux26]

this has been a great tournament I need time to decide if I like it more than Genesis 5 but still amazing so many upsets so many crazy matches I'm going to have trouble deciding my most hype match for this forum

https://smashboards.com/threads/most-hype-smash-4-sets-2018.454186/

 

[The_Bookworm]

Moving this to the new page.

Switchfest (A Tier) (162 entrants)

TOP 8 Winner's
MKLeo
AC
komorikiri
Nairo

TOP 8 Loser's
Larry Lurr
Raito
VoiD
Samsora

1st: MKLeo
2nd: Nairo
3rd: Larry Lurr
4th: komorikiri
5th: AC
5th: VoiD
7th: Samsora
7th: Raito
9th: Tweek
9th: Abadango
9th: Cosmos
9th: Charlie
13th: falln
13th: VaLoR
13th: Shuton
13th: Light
17th: Myran
17th: Xzax
17th: Zenyou
17th: Dynamo
17th: Vermillion
17th: Kameme
17th: Eon
17th: Nicko
25th: Sriks
25th: PiXL
25th: S2H (DQ'ed before facing Kameme)
25th: Aarvark
25th: Virum
25th: Lui$
25th: K9sbruce
25th: TLTC (DQ'ed before facing Myran)

Notable Players out Earlier:
33rd: Candy
33rd: Z
33rd: Kiraflax
33rd: M
33rd: Mago
33rd: AEMehr
33rd: ShiNe
33rd: Keitaro
49th: ven
49th: Kswz
49th: SoCalGohan
65th: pu55yk1ng


Doubles:
1st: MKLeo komorikiri
2nd: Cosmos Samsora
3rd: Nairo Tweek
4th: Larry Lurr Light
5th: VaLoR PiXL
5th: Abadango Kameme
7th: jaredisking1 SilentRain
7th: ven Z


I'm Really Feeling it!:
1st: Nicko
2nd: Tremendo Dude
3rd: Tru4
4th: Sriks
5th: Kameme
6th: M
7th: Scarhi
8th: Shuton
9th: Nairo
9th: komorikiri

 

[Iridium]

I swear Komo has a good chance of taking this. If he gets past Leo, who knows what may happen?

 

[Minordeth]

Welp. Raito went and labbed the Bayo MU hard after he got swept last time.

I said months ago that Smashers need to stop mindlessly approaching just because their opponent has a tiny percent lead. That forced approach has to be earned. Watching Raito counter camp Tweek on Lylat was incredibly satisfying for that reason.

He also exploited Bayo’s weak burst options on the ground, and hobbled her combos.

Props to AC for making top 8. I’m interested to see how he does against Nairo, as he’s had only one bad MU against a top player so far. I want to believe in MK post-Ito.

 

[The_Bookworm]

ConComics 2018 Abril (C Tier) (205 entrants) (Guadalajara, Mexico)
1st: Javi
2nd: LeSou
3rd: Regi Shikimi
4th: El Cobrador (Bedgar)
5th: Waymas
5th: QROG
7th: Cloud (SBGera)
7th: Wonf
9th: Maister
9th: Elvis
9th: Stronghold
9th: FuerzaDON
13th: TONI
13th: Emm
13th: Dano
13th: Kub4444

Notable Players out Early
17th: MASTER PUFFY
25th: Chag

Bayo as a character is not having a good weekend. It gives the viewers a break before the top Bayo invasion at Glitch 5 next weekend.

 

[Iridium]

Is it just me, or does Fox and Cloud seem to be outperforming Bayonetta recently? I don't know, but she has not been crazy dominant over everybody else at the more larger events.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Is it just me, or does Fox and Cloud seem to be outperforming Bayonetta recently? I don't know, but she has not been crazy dominant over everybody else at the more larger events.

This syndrome started somewhat earlier this month, but has amplified with this event. Cloud is in a really good path to make up for his dropped results from March (if you remember Das Koopa's chart, Cloud dropped off a ton).

(Edit: I am going to bed. Why is top 8 so late at night??? Guess I am going to see what will happen tomorrow.)

 

[WiFi]

Welp. Raito went and labbed the Bayo MU hard after he got swept last time.

I said months ago that Smashers need to stop mindlessly approaching just because their opponent has a tiny percent lead. That forced approach has to be earned. Watching Raito counter camp Tweek on Lylat was incredibly satisfying for that reason.

He also exploited Bayo’s weak burst options on the ground, and hobbled her combos.

Props to AC for making top 8. I’m interested to see how he does against Nairo, as he’s had only one bad MU against a top player so far. I want to believe in MK post-Ito.

I want to believe in MK post-Ito too. MK is one of my favorite characters to watch, but ever since Ito quit and MKleo switched to other sword characters, MK has been suffering in terms of representation. AC is basically his only dedicated solo-main. Before Ito quit, the second Smashboards tierlist actually had MK as a top 10 character, placed ninth. While I don't think MK is that great of a character to solo main, he is a top 3 pocket character, along with Cloud and Bayo.

 

[The-Technique]

I swear Komo has a good chance of taking this. If he gets past Leo, who knows what may happen?

Komo will get swept by Nairo, unless AC somehow pulls off a godlike upset before that anticipated sey. I don't see it happening though, based on how Nairo dominated Leo's MK last time they played.

 

[WiFi]

AC has been pulling pretty good upsets all tournament though. Although, Corrin does go even or loses to MK, according to DSS. FE characters don't like the MK matchup, as FE hurtboxes are tall and easy to ladder.

 

[Lord Dio]

Komo will get swept by Nairo, unless AC somehow pulls off a godlike upset before that anticipated sey. I don't see it happening though, based on how Nairo dominated Leo's MK last time they played.

he'll also likely get swept by Leo, who historically has only lost the cloud ditto to komo once (fe saga, their last meeting), and can pull out his bayo (who komo isn't 100% ready for yet imo)
Edit: also, last time komo beat nairo was big house 6, which iirc is his only win, wheareas nairo has beaten him both at abadango saga, and fe saga. iirc the set count is 2-1 nairo

 

[MercuryPenny]

out of curiosity. are there any problem/-2 matchups for mk that bar him from being top tier or is it solely having no top-level representation

 

[Iridium]

he'll also likely get swept by Leo, who historically has only lost the cloud ditto to komo once (fe saga, their last meeting), and can pull out his bayo (who komo isn't 100% ready for yet imo)
Edit: also, last time komo beat nairo was big house 6, which iirc is his only win, wheareas nairo has beaten him both at abadango saga, and fe saga. iirc the set count is 2-1 nairo

Nairo also beat Komo at the 2GG Championships if that counts.

 

[Lord Dio]

Nairo also beat Komo at the 2GG Championships if that counts.

yeah, that too, forgot about that

 

[Iridium]

Well, Larry Lurr 3-1 Raito . At least Raito made a good effort to keep each game close.

VoiD 3-0 Samsora in a dominant 3-0 to move on. Four of the six kills he got were sweetspot up-smashes.

Nairo 3-1 AC . Yes, he used Falco to WIN A GAME. And it was a two stock on top of that.

 

[Minordeth]

out of curiosity. are there any problem/-2 matchups for mk that bar him from being top tier or is it solely having no top-level representation

I don’t think MK has anything as problematic as say, Ryu/Rosa. He doesn’t like Sheik, but who does?

MK kind of fell off after the ladder nerf, and his main reps went elsewhere. Ito was a promising player for a while, and made waves when he showed up, but he’s inactive.

Leo is using Bayo for grapplers, although his MK smokes them too.

Meta knight is still a great character tho. There isn’t a particular reason why he is used less than Ryu, other than the fact that he suffered the nerfs and it took a minute for his smaller, but dedicated playerbase to lab him back.

Well, Larry Lurr 3-1 Raito . At least Raito made a good effort to keep each game close.

Larry played really well. He actually stuck to a game plan, for the most part, and it paid off. Raito is bananas tho. Too bad Fox can just get in his face waaaay easier than Bayo can.

 

[chaos11011]

Larry definitely put in the time to learn the match up. Not only did he laser the Can to disrupt it, but he recognized Duck Hunt's "eye of the storm", where there's a brief pause inbetween things like Gunmen or how you can run under Can if it's pinged too high.

I'm very, very glad people are catching on, as I believe that although counter play will hinder Raito's success, I think that he is a huge victim to autopilot and playing his own game, so I'm very excited to see him push his game a thousand percent. We've seen it today where he played stellar VS Tweek's Bayo. Once he's faced with adversity, he puts in the time and it definitely pays off.

In fact, even with the counterplay, you could see Raito piece together everything as the set progressed. The only game he got blown up, if I recall correctly, was the first one, as Larry's drastic change in playstyle caught him off guard. Towards the last 2 games, you saw Raito giving him a run for his money.

Also, fun fact, Larry is a genius and has demonstrated ZeRo-levels of counterplay: Remember the situation where Raito won the game while him and Larry were near the ledge? Remember when D1 said "He jabbed the wrong way"? Had Larry got those jabs, it would've frozen Can for a second, allowing Larry to Up Smash without fear of Can interrupting. It was at a spacing where Can wouldn't have hit Duck Hunt. I was extremely impressed by this detail that very few would've been able to catch.

 

[MarioManTAW]

Nairo vs komorikiri in 2017 was 3-0 Nairo's favor, with sets at Super Smash Con 2017, Fire Emblem Saga, and 2GG Championship.

 

[Minordeth]

Nairo 3-1 over AC.

Nairo is a monster.

AC now the highest placing Falco. Actually two stocked that ZSS like a maniac. Alright then.

 

[Lord Dio]

bruh
if komo had gotten game 1 he'd have won
ugh leo so good

 

[Iridium]

MkLeo 3-2 Komorikiri in a set going back and forth. Komo came pretty close to taking it, but Leo's Marth was just too good.

 

[Ordeaux26]

Larry Lurr 3-2 Ac Unfortunate For AC But He Had a Great Run

 

[Lord Dio]

komo 3-0 void with sonic
my boys komo and larry made top 4 at an a tier yesssssssssss

 

[|RK|]

Larry definitely put in the time to learn the match up. Not only did he laser the Can to disrupt it, but he recognized Duck Hunt's "eye of the storm", where there's a brief pause inbetween things like Gunmen or how you can run under Can if it's pinged too high.

I'm very, very glad people are catching on, as I believe that although counter play will hinder Raito's success, I think that he is a huge victim to autopilot and playing his own game, so I'm very excited to see him push his game a thousand percent. We've seen it today where he played stellar VS Tweek's Bayo. Once he's faced with adversity, he puts in the time and it definitely pays off.

In fact, even with the counterplay, you could see Raito piece together everything as the set progressed. The only game he got blown up, if I recall correctly, was the first one, as Larry's drastic change in playstyle caught him off guard. Towards the last 2 games, you saw Raito giving him a run for his money.

Also, fun fact, Larry is a genius and has demonstrated ZeRo-levels of counterplay: Remember the situation where Raito won the game while him and Larry were near the ledge? Remember when D1 said "He jabbed the wrong way"? Had Larry got those jabs, it would've frozen Can for a second, allowing Larry to Up Smash without fear of Can interrupting. It was at a spacing where Can wouldn't have hit Duck Hunt. I was extremely impressed by this detail that very few would've been able to catch.

I'll say - I think Raito is one of the smartest players right now. I think there's a little bit that comes from MU inexperience... But he's so brilliant.

 

[Lord Dio]

that was absolutely brutal
honestly the grossest thing I've ever seen nairo do to anyone.

 

[Minordeth]

I'll say - I think Raito is one of the smartest players right now. I think there's a little bit that comes from MU inexperience... But he's so brilliant.

Yeah, but man, he labbed the hell out of the MU. I think getting shut down by Salem gave him the fire to figure it out a bit more. He made it look like Bayo just didn't have an answer.

 

[TDK]

Switchfest (162 Entrants) (SoCal)

1st: MKLeo
2nd: Nairo
3rd: Larry Lurr
4th: Komorikiri
5th: VoiD
5th: Ac
7th: Samsora
7th: Raito
9th: Tweek
9th: Abadango
9th: Cosmos
9th: Charliedaking
13th: Falln
13th: VaLoR
13th: Shuton
13th: Light

 

[Ordeaux26]

MkLeo just won Switchfest what a amazing tournament

 

[Yonder]

Switchfest (162 Entrants) (SoCal)

1st: MKLeo
2nd: Nairo
3rd: Larry Lurr
4th: Komorikiri
5th: VoiD
5th: Ac
7th: Samsora
7th: Raito
9th: Tweek
9th: Abadango
9th: Cosmos
9th: Charliedaking
13th: Falln
13th: VaLoR
13th: Shuton
13th: Light

Interesting results. Give a little bit more breathing room on the Bayo ban discussion (but I think the double clouds ban is even more set in the stone after this tournament - it needs to be addressed asap, fortunately some tournaments are implementating the ban).

Notable top tier absences were Mario and especially Diddy Kong. I mean, the highest Diddy placed 25th and not even as a main? What? At least Zenyou helped rep Mario who is still a pivotal backbone of the Mario meta alongside Ally. But we all know Mario is on the decline anyways. Diddy is an interesting one to discuss though.

I hope to see Nairo's bowser matches on vods. I'm a sucker for watching his Bowser play...

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

ConComics 2018 Abril (C Tier) (205 entrants) (Guadalajara, Mexico)
1st: Javi
2nd: LeSou
3rd: Regi Shikimi
4th: El Cobrador (Bedgar)
5th: Waymas
5th: QROG
7th: Cloud (SBGera)
7th: Wonf
9th: Maister
9th: Elvis
9th: Stronghold
9th: FuerzaDON
13th: TONI
13th: Emm
13th: Dano
13th: Kub4444

Notable Players out Early
17th: MASTER PUFFY
25th: Chag

Bayo as a character is not having a good weekend. It gives the viewers a break before the top Bayo invasion at Glitch 5 next weekend.

Good to see Kub4444, he's a really good Jr from Mexico.

 

[Minordeth]

Interesting results. Give a little bit more breathing room on the Bayo ban discussion (but I think the double clouds ban is even more set in the stone after this tournament - it needs to be addressed asap, fortunately some tournaments are implementating the ban).

Notable top tier absences were Mario and especially Diddy Kong. I mean, the highest Diddy placed 25th and not even as a main? What? At least Zenyou helped rep Mario who is still a pivotal backbone of the Mario meta alongside Ally. But we all know Mario is on the decline anyways. Diddy is an interesting one to discuss though.

I hope to see Nairo's bowser matches on vods. I'm a sucker for watching his Bowser play...

I’ll be honest, I wasn’t expecting a top 8 anywhere near this. If you were to tell me the running candidate for best Bayo in the world, and another world class Bayo (and Mewtwo) were going to place out of top 8, I’d have thought you went a little hard this last Friday, sir.

But then if you told me that, no, instead of Bayo making it, Duck Hunt did, I think I’d start doubting your sanity.

Finally, if you were to follow that up by saying, “Oh yeah, and Nairo’s ZSS got two stocked by a Falco.”

Well, I’d be forced to come to the conclusion that I went insanely hard on Friday, which would explain why my wife would be yelling at me to stop calling my cat “Yonder” and to stop telling him “that’s impossible.”

 

[The_Bookworm]

Interesting results. Give a little bit more breathing room on the Bayo ban discussion (but I think the double clouds ban is even more set in the stone after this tournament - it needs to be addressed asap, fortunately some tournaments are implementating the ban).

Notable top tier absences were Mario and especially Diddy Kong. I mean, the highest Diddy placed 25th and not even as a main? What? At least Zenyou helped rep Mario who is still a pivotal backbone of the Mario meta alongside Ally. But we all know Mario is on the decline anyways. Diddy is an interesting one to discuss though.

I hope to see Nairo's bowser matches on vods. I'm a sucker for watching his Bowser play...

First time Nairo pulled out his Bowser this year, only to get bodied by MKLeo. AnTi also contributes to the Mario metagame as well, and the rise of Dark Wizzy on a regional level will help Mario to maintain his current placement.

Also, Nairo against AC's Falco be like: Game Three: "Wait, how do you fight against this character?!?" Game Four: "Oh, now I remember."
You guys are once again getting overexcited about an upset, and it was only a single game he took.

 

[Iridium]

Man, Switchfest definitely had among the more diverse top 8 brackets I have ever seen. Then again, this event could have been more stacked.

 

[Minordeth]

First time Nairo pulled out his Bowser this year, only to get bodied by MKLeo. AnTi also contributes to the Mario metagame as well, and the rise of Dark Wizzy on a regional level will help Mario to maintain his current placement.

Also, Nairo against AC's Falco be like: Game Three: "Wait, how do you fight against this character?!?" Game Four: "Oh, now I remember."
You guys are once again getting overexcited about an upset, and it was only a single game he took.

You seem to be implying that him pulling out Bowser was associated with him losing, which is just plainly not accurate. Nairo’s Bowser took one game off of Leo, which is one more than his ZSS did.

As for the Falco win, that was also the only game that AC managed to take against Nairo. Falco is not a good character, and this does nothing to change my opinion. But it is a hilarious, kind of great thing to make note of in a “yay underdogs!” kind of way.

 

[Frihetsanka]

out of curiosity. are there any problem/-2 matchups for mk that bar him from being top tier or is it solely having no top-level representation

"Top tier"? He's probably not top 15 (although likely very close to it, could be #16). He has a bunch of -1 MUs vs relevant characters and doesn't really beat anyone relevant aside from Rosalina and Peach and maybe Marth/Lucina. He probably doesn't lose any MUs -2 though, so he's very solo viable (even if you might run into quite a lot of -1 MUs).

Let's be real: At top level of play, being a high tier is not enough for most players. If you look at the current B tier, you don't see many representatives of the high tiers at all, despite them all being reasonably good character. You don't really see that many players of the lower end of A tier either, for that matter (at the highest levels). If you want to get an advantage, you don't pick the 16th best character, you'd likely pick the 1-7th best (depending on who fits your playstyle). ZeRo liked Captain Falcon more than most characters, yet he didn't really play him much in tournament because he wanted to win, and can we really blame him? Fatality has proven that you can get good results with Falcon, yet Fatality's results are not nearly as good as ZeRo's (no player has reached that level of consistency in Smash 4). If ZeRo had played Captain Falcon instead, then perhaps he would be #5 instead of #1 (or something, hard to say). Character choice, at least at the highest level of play, does matter quite a bit.

At lower levels of play it matters much, much less. Even at relatively high levels you see a bunch of mid tiers do well (like many Japanese regionals). Most players don't have to pick a top ~7 character to do really well (or even a top 20 character, for that matter). John Numbers is #3 in New York City, while playing Wii Fit Trainer! And, seeing how only Dabuz and Mr. E are above him, chances are him playing Bayonetta or Cloud instead wouldn't have gotten him a higher local ranking.

 

[The_Bookworm]

You seem to be implying that him pulling out Bowser was associated with him losing, which is just plainly not accurate. Nairo’s Bowser took one game off of Leo, which is one more than his ZSS did.

I never said that it did nothing significant, but it was still only one game, and Leo managed to beat it at game 4 without switching off of Cloud.

Also, what do you guys think about Leo's Cloud officially returning?

 

[Ordeaux26]

I was against the Bayonetta ban before this tournament but after this tournament I am sure Bayonetta should not get bannedd

 

[The_Bookworm]

I was against the Bayonetta ban before this tournament but after this tournament I am sure Bayonetta should not get bannedd

In other words, your opinion has not changed.

I wonder what will happen if the trend that Switchfest presented will continue on. Will Cloud surpass Bayo as the best character? Will something drastic happen to a character? The possibilities leave me hyped, especially with the most stacked event of the season, Hyrule Saga, in the horizon.

 

[Ordeaux26]

I wonder what will happen if the trend that Switchfest presented will continue on

Me too epically with glitch 4 coming up with a lot of Bayonetta players in the event will they all make it into top 8 or will only some will even if that's does happen it won't change my opinion

especially with the most stacked event of the season, Hyrule Saga, on the horizon.

there are only two Bayonettas at the event so far