TDK
Smash Master
I really would never pin Ixis to take sets off of top 20 players, honestly, and Glutonny has done that multiple times.
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I really would never pin Ixis to take sets off of top 20 players, honestly, and Glutonny has done that multiple times.
Zenyou plays Mario in his worst MU and Sonic's best top tier MU on top of it being Komo, being known to be very defensive and patient (which Mario has a really hard time dealing with) and AnTi in general has a hard time vs the character (losing to Aperture with both Cloud and ZSS at Nairo Saga for example)Can you guys do me a favor and redpill me on Sonic and why he isn't the best character in the game?
I'm by no means a top player, I'm not even a good player. I'm just a random scrub. I thought Sonic was conceivably the best before EVO and seeing EVO has really made me double down on why I think his neutral is just absolutely oppressive. It isn't just me that struggles vs the character obviously, I've been seeing a lot of great players like Zenyou and Anti get wrecked by him too and I honestly have no idea what the answer is. I know I'm bad enough to be wrong about this, I'm just looking for answers as to why I'm wrong.
What are Sonic's weaknesses?
I'm all for people calling out bad logic but to be fair, everything else in that post is a perfectly legitimate argument."Take away my mains best player and his results don't look that impressive anymore"
Favorite argument of every player trying to talk down their top tier main ever.
... except it's a bad argument.
Missing Komo's placement and losses. Not sure if anyone else is missing, komo's just the first oen I thought to look for and found missing.EVO 2017 Top 8
Winners
ZeRovs Tweek
Salemvs Larry Lurr
Losers
VoiDvs Nairo
Dabuzvs KEN
In the spoiler I will have who the PGR members that did not make Top 8 lost to
FOWlost to Edge
and Anti
and placed 33rd
JKlost to falln
and KEN
and placed 9th
Edgelost to Nairo
and VoiD
and placed 25th
Wadilost to False
and Abadango
and placed 13th
AClost to LingLing
and Share
and placed 129th
Nietonolost to Mr.E
and Mr.R
and placed 33rd
NAKATlost to Salem
and Lima
and placed 13th
Mannylost to Dabuz
and JK
and placed 13th
Myranlost to Sense
and Charliedaking
and placed 65th
Rich Brownlost to Raito
and VoiD
and placed 49th
Earthlost to Wadi
and Xzax
and placed 65th
Raitolost to KEN
and Abadango
and placed 17th
Mr.Elost to Zero
and Lima
and placed 33rd
MVDlost to Wrath
and Abadango
and placed 33rd
fallnlost to Salem
and Abadango
and placed 25th
Kamemelost to Dom
and Eon
and placed 65th
Tsulost to Larry Lurr
and Mr.R
and placed 25th
Elegantlost to Larry Lurr
and Manny
and placed 17th
Samsoralost to Zenyou
and Wadi
and placed 33rd
9Blost to Manny
and Wadi
and placed 25th
Locuslost to Nakat
and JK
and placed 25th
Antilost to KEN
and Captain Zack
and placed 25th
Zinotolost to Nairo
and JK
and placed 17th
Kiriharalost to Mistake
and TLTC
and placed 65th
ESAMgot double eliminated by IxisNaugus
and placed 49th
Ranailost to Zero
and Wadi
and placed 17th
Fatalitylost to Mistake
and 9B
and placed 33rd
Abadangolost to Nakat
and Nairo
and placed 9th
Mr.Rlost to Elegant
and Komorikiri
and placed 17th
Captain Zacklost to Wonderbread
and Nakat
and placed 17th
Allylost to Chansu
and MVD
and placed 49th
MKLeolost to False
and MuteAce
and placed 65th
Lost to Dabuz and Void, got 13thMissing Komo's placement and losses. Not sure if anyone else is missing, komo's just the first oen I thought to look for and found missing.
At this point in time, I'm not sure if I would call it an open question.I think "who is the best Bayonetta" is a question that is open again.
And it was EvoBayonetta won a supermajor
I don't hateor think she needs to be banned or have rules made against her but do find her annoying. I think the character design is poor and over-tuned. She has so many things going for her. Bullet arts that can't be reflected and can extend most of her attacks. Other attacks with variable commitment like Fair having optional hits. Taunts don't matter but the whole point of taunting is to make yourself vulnerable as a middle finger to the opponent; they shouldn't be cancelable. A supposed weakness in slow startup largely negated by a frame 4 upB that is her key combo starter and doesn't cause freefall. Supposedly bad dodges but with bat within making her spot/air dodge effectively start frame 1. A combo starting/extending sideB that can be used more than once in the air along with witch twist. Impressive hitbubbles on most of her attacks and specials that are even hard for a sword to challenge (upB beats Link's Dair). UpB with set BKB on the initial hit pared with rage and her unique counter for easy single hits. Witch time, the best counter in the game that can slow opponents from projectiles hitting with an AOE effect. This means lingering hitbubbles like bombs, crash bomber and bananas are dangerous to use against WTime but safe against every other counter if spaced a few character lengths away. This also endangers Zairs and other disjointed 'counter-safe' pokes. WTime allows any attacks including combo starters or your choice of smashes or spikes, unlike other counters which are mainly KO style single hits. A ladder combo factoring in WTime and all the crazy up/side B stuff. Things like the above mentioned Fair, bullet arts, upB hitboxes, dunking Dair and leggy Bair/Nair paired with
possiblethe best recovery in the game. Dair like that using Sheik and you won't come back up. A kill Fthrow so you have to respect her grab at high %s, unlike Fox, for example. Shield cancel Bullet climax for almost no risk.
Many characters break one or maybe 2 character conventions but Bayo has so many things going for her. Even if you nerfed witch time, arguably her best move, to obscurity she'd still be top tier. She's an extremely oppressive, low risk/high reward character without a real weakness. I mean she's no Brawl top tier but still very tiring to play around because the versatility of how she can abuse you and escape abuse herself. IMO she has a ton of potential yet to be seen.
Jesus Christ, Bayo wins one thing, and suddenly she's best in the game no question, "just accept it". She has a very good argument for being best in the game which got better this tournament, yes, but seriously, there's also good arguments for other characters being the best in the game, one of which is Diddy. And Zero's results do count, you can't just say they don't because he's Zero.One reason I reallllly wanted Salem to win (other than the fact that Salem is a cool dude who puts in work and deserved a chance to shine) is that I'm sooooo tired of the people who think that results are the only thing that should count when trying to judge who the best characters are. I've been saying Bayo is easily #1 in the game since shortly after her release. You could just see the raw tools and what she had the potential to do. I know some people have a hard time accepting the fact that the best character doesn't have the best neutral, but you don't need that when you have the freest of free recoveries and can kill at any %, among other incredible tools.
No way in the world is Bayo so overpowered that she needs to be banned. (Although I would nerf her in a Switch patch, just as I would nerf some of the other top tiers a little and buff some of the bottom tiers). But going forward I really hope people just accept that she is the best character in the game. Just face it already.
Lima could have made top 8. Abadango (a Bayo main now) could have made top 8. Captain Zack could have made top 8. Mistake could have made top 8. Among others.
Players that picked up Bayo are ascending throughout the world.
Salem just won EVO.
Diddy is not equally good just because he has a better neutral and ZeRo plays him.
Bayo is the best. Just accept it.
Sorry, but this point is really rubs me the wrong way.No way in the world is Bayo so overpowered that she needs to be banned. (Although I would nerf her in a Switch patch, just as I would nerf some of the other top tiers a little and buff some of the bottom tiers).
Has DLC simply become too imbalanced?Well, this is unfortunate:
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Marth and Lucina's life just got rougher.