Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[verbatim]

IIRC that's a crew not a sponsor, kind of like LoF.

 

[Ninety]

Hasn't Dabuz said he's holding out for a big name to look his way? He's unsponsored because he wants to right now.

 

[Sleek Media]

I wish we thought the same way about weeklies here in the US.

I wish I could give you a hundred likes. I am so burned out on this try hard competitive BS. Can't even get people to play a $1 4v4 side event.

 

[Aaron1997]

The Following Japanese Players are going to Evo Via Nairo donations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMTGG-fdHTA
Komorikiri
Kirihara
HIKARU
KEN

Sucks for mid/low tier heros like
Tea
Ginko
Yusan
Nasubi
Taiheita
Shuton

 

[FullMoon]

Speaking of Dabuz

 

[GeneralLedge]

Re: Weeklies, on a personal level:

I personally don't attend tournaments. I have been told by players such as .San that I'm well enough off at the game, but my reasons for simply not attending are twofold to a single term: Doubt.

First is simply, I don't want to pay $x and lose it sandbagging in pools. I would gladly go to just play video games for fun, git gud, maybe help other players git gud, and have an all around pleasurable experience. But having not attended one before, I don't know how good a player I am on a conventional level. I don't know whether I'll choke or not under public eyes, whether or not I can safely blame choking or simply not being good at the game, but I'd rather not wager an entry fee to find out.

Second is indicative of player/viewer attitudes on Twitter and other social mediums. I won't pretend I'm good enough to place super high, certainly not on my first outing should it ever occur, but how can I predict how I'll be treated in any step along the way? I read fear stories of people being treated like trash all the time by their audience. I read so many anti-Mii posts, while I don't even really main the characters, that I could half-expect my own character to be banned if I play the wrong way against the wrong people enough times. I sure as **** don't want to spend money on this as an experience, sure as heck don't want my own name passed around whether or not I'm good or bad, and don't want to be any stretch of the term 'famous' whether I'm a stealth good player or so trash it's fun to mock on Reddit.

Places therein are very quick to dismiss certain factors as 'it doesn't matter because...', and I'm confident this would occur with simple free-entry, risk-free tournaments. Why I'm so concerned that money = internet shame, I can't explain. Maybe I'm just selfish. I blame Reddit's hyperbole and downvotes.

 

[Yikarur]

Re: Weeklies, on a personal level:

I personally don't attend tournaments. I have been told by players such as .San that I'm well enough off at the game, but my reasons for simply not attending are twofold to a single term: Doubt.

First is simply, I don't want to pay $x and lose it sandbagging in pools. I would gladly go to just play video games for fun, git gud, maybe help other players git gud, and have an all around pleasurable experience. But having not attended one before, I don't know how good a player I am on a conventional level. I don't know whether I'll choke or not under public eyes, whether or not I can safely blame choking or simply not being good at the game, but I'd rather not wager an entry fee to find out.
.

Just do it.

 

[Locke 06]

Re: Weeklies, on a personal level:

I personally don't attend tournaments. I have been told by players such as .San that I'm well enough off at the game, but my reasons for simply not attending are twofold to a single term: Doubt.

First is simply, I don't want to pay $x and lose it sandbagging in pools. I would gladly go to just play video games for fun, git gud, maybe help other players git gud, and have an all around pleasurable experience. But having not attended one before, I don't know how good a player I am on a conventional level. I don't know whether I'll choke or not under public eyes, whether or not I can safely blame choking or simply not being good at the game, but I'd rather not wager an entry fee to find out.

Second is indicative of player/viewer attitudes on Twitter and other social mediums. I won't pretend I'm good enough to place super high, certainly not on my first outing should it ever occur, but how can I predict how I'll be treated in any step along the way? I read fear stories of people being treated like trash all the time by their audience. I read so many anti-Mii posts, while I don't even really main the characters, that I could half-expect my own character to be banned if I play the wrong way against the wrong people enough times. I sure as **** don't want to spend money on this as an experience, sure as heck don't want my own name passed around whether or not I'm good or bad, and don't want to be any stretch of the term 'famous' whether I'm a stealth good player or so trash it's fun to mock on Reddit.

Places therein are very quick to dismiss certain factors as 'it doesn't matter because...', and I'm confident this would occur with simple free-entry, risk-free tournaments. Why I'm so concerned that money = internet shame, I can't explain. Maybe I'm just selfish. I blame Reddit's hyperbole and downvotes.

Spoiler alert:

Nobody cares.

Source: Going Bayo at a weekly because she's fun.

 

[Y2Kay]

Speaking of Dabuz

It is still weird to see super smash bros. on ESPN's website. Is this what it's like to be e sports? ◥@言@;◤

 

[Illuminose]

Insanely hyped to see Kirihara and KEN in the US. Both could go really far at EVO and I'm excited to see it. With Komo, 6WX, Wrath, StaticManny, SuperGirlKels, Seagull Joe, and now KEN (#2 Sonic in the world) going to EVO, I think that EVO will be a real test of Sonic. There's no excuses of representation here with Komo back to Sonic most of the time and all of his other heavy-hitting players in attendance.

 

[blackghost]

I went too. I beat Zephyr's with and almost beat Pink Fresh with him too.

how is the matchup of bayo vs diddy? i'm trying to get some data to form a general consensus. could you give your take on it?

 

[Teshie U]

I wish we thought the same way about weeklies here in the US.

I've been told your region has almost 20 weekly tournaments and you are considered one of the best players in the world. Would you deprive others of this valuable tool that has sculpted your expertise and mastery of the game?


Its a shame about Cosmos. He has been so dominant in his home city, but he just won't/can't leave it. He has also been very fortunate/unfortunate to almost never interact with people outside of his bubble. Seeing him get 3-0d so hard vs ZeRo doesn't satisfy my curiosity because its a bad matchup and an amazing player, so I'm definitely a bit down that I won't get to follow him at CEO.

 

[Patriarachnid]

how is the matchup of bayo vs diddy? i'm trying to get some data to form a general consensus. could you give your take on it?

The general consensus is that Diddy stomps Bayo into dirt.

 

[PK Gaming]

Re: Weeklies, on a personal level:

I personally don't attend tournaments. I have been told by players such as .San that I'm well enough off at the game, but my reasons for simply not attending are twofold to a single term: Doubt.

First is simply, I don't want to pay $x and lose it sandbagging in pools. I would gladly go to just play video games for fun, git gud, maybe help other players git gud, and have an all around pleasurable experience. But having not attended one before, I don't know how good a player I am on a conventional level. I don't know whether I'll choke or not under public eyes, whether or not I can safely blame choking or simply not being good at the game, but I'd rather not wager an entry fee to find out.

Second is indicative of player/viewer attitudes on Twitter and other social mediums. I won't pretend I'm good enough to place super high, certainly not on my first outing should it ever occur, but how can I predict how I'll be treated in any step along the way? I read fear stories of people being treated like trash all the time by their audience. I read so many anti-Mii posts, while I don't even really main the characters, that I could half-expect my own character to be banned if I play the wrong way against the wrong people enough times. I sure as **** don't want to spend money on this as an experience, sure as heck don't want my own name passed around whether or not I'm good or bad, and don't want to be any stretch of the term 'famous' whether I'm a stealth good player or so trash it's fun to mock on Reddit.

Places therein are very quick to dismiss certain factors as 'it doesn't matter because...', and I'm confident this would occur with simple free-entry, risk-free tournaments. Why I'm so concerned that money = internet shame, I can't explain. Maybe I'm just selfish. I blame Reddit's hyperbole and downvotes.

You're putting too much pressure on yourself. Seriously, don't worry about looking good or bad in front of others. Everyone is super understanding and nice in real life. Just ignore the horror stories!

I guarantee you won't feel this way after going to your first weekly.

Just do it.

.

 

[BunbUn129]

http://espn.go.com/esports/story/_/id/16431806/most-valuable-gaming-picks-smash-player-scatt

Sponsorships are being handed out like hotcakes.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

It's the big CEO rush that's likley causing the sponsor rushes. Imagine the days before EVO.

 

[Ninety]

Yeah, supermajors are at the doorstep. I'd imagine potential sponsors want to have their names up on those screens.

 

[Aaron1997]

https://twitter.com/Steroidism/status/745797316595093505

We have another one.

 

[Nu~]

So this happened

Mega man's OoS metal blade kill set up has competition

 

[Trifroze]

Fun Fact: JaK, the 4th seed in his pool, a Florida Diddy main, is the best Mario Kart 8 time trialer to walk the earth, boasting many world records and top 10 times on every course in the game.

He was godlike in the early months until half of the good players including him went inactive from the game. My total time was actually second in the world for a short period (and still considerably behind his) right before I stopped, and we played on the same team. Too bad MK8 was ultimately kind of unbearable as a semi-competitive multiplayer game.

this is way off topic but good times

/reminisce

 

[L9999]

Z-Drop-footstool 0-to-deaths have always been common knowledge. I know of the Hydrant/Key/Footstool. But to pull this off on a thinking human being requires to be a robot like Tea. Then again, robots mastered the Grab Climbers in Brawl, so if all the good Pacmans left don't quit it wouldn't surprise me they could pull this off in a match consistently.

 

[Peppermint1201]

He was godlike in the early months until half of the good players including him went inactive from the game. My total time was actually second in the world for a short period (and still considerably behind his) right before I stopped, and we played on the same team. Too bad MK8 was ultimately kind of unbearable as a semi-competitive multiplayer game.

this is way off topic but good times

/reminisce

Yeah, the item generation is pretty terrible in MK8 compared to MKW. I'll never forget Mario Kart Wii, it was my first comp game.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Re: Weeklies, on a personal level:

I personally don't attend tournaments. I have been told by players such as .San that I'm well enough off at the game, but my reasons for simply not attending are twofold to a single term: Doubt.

First is simply, I don't want to pay $x and lose it sandbagging in pools. I would gladly go to just play video games for fun, git gud, maybe help other players git gud, and have an all around pleasurable experience. But having not attended one before, I don't know how good a player I am on a conventional level. I don't know whether I'll choke or not under public eyes, whether or not I can safely blame choking or simply not being good at the game, but I'd rather not wager an entry fee to find out.

Second is indicative of player/viewer attitudes on Twitter and other social mediums. I won't pretend I'm good enough to place super high, certainly not on my first outing should it ever occur, but how can I predict how I'll be treated in any step along the way? I read fear stories of people being treated like trash all the time by their audience. I read so many anti-Mii posts, while I don't even really main the characters, that I could half-expect my own character to be banned if I play the wrong way against the wrong people enough times. I sure as **** don't want to spend money on this as an experience, sure as heck don't want my own name passed around whether or not I'm good or bad, and don't want to be any stretch of the term 'famous' whether I'm a stealth good player or so trash it's fun to mock on Reddit.

Places therein are very quick to dismiss certain factors as 'it doesn't matter because...', and I'm confident this would occur with simple free-entry, risk-free tournaments. Why I'm so concerned that money = internet shame, I can't explain. Maybe I'm just selfish. I blame Reddit's hyperbole and downvotes.

Don't worry. If you're scared of entering brackets your first time, you can always just show up to play friendlies, though most places you'll have to pay a venue fee. Often that's a good way to get immersed in the scene, talk with people, get tips, etc. without having to worry about getting trashed on stream your first time out. Really that kind of experience is often more valuable than the brackets, especially if you're just starting out.

 

[Jalil]

So this happened

Mega man's OoS metal blade kill set up has competition

This is only good for punishing moves that have a lot of lag or hard reads since you have to be facing backwards and z drop the galaxian on your descent (otherwise it won't bounce twice).
But speakin of footstools, I found a kill combo out of a footstool a lil while ago. It's true from about 0-90 percent.
I ain't have a capture card so my android it's struggle camera had to do

 

[verbatim]

The shieldbreak blockstring isn't really worth learning since the starting situation is so bizarre and rare, but generally speaking footstool -> z-drop OOS tricks are usually more applicable in a real match. Getting that entire combo off is horrendously difficult, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could use a modified single loop variation as a kill confirm at high % the way Kamemushi does.

Also footstool -> hydrant is amazing, you can chain it into walkoff up air -> jab2 -> water assisted Nair to put people (cloud) offstage.

 

[Y2Kay]

https://twitter.com/Steroidism/status/745797316595093505

We have another one.

Last 2 weeks pic.twitter.com/d93L1zscDi

— BKROG | Ramin (@Mr_RSmash) June 22, 2016

 

[ParanoidDrone]

So this image showed up on Reddit. Infographic of Luma's uair. It looks like there are two distinct hitboxes, with the one closer to Rosalina being deadlier but lower priority compared to the other hitbox. So if you're above Luma, it's safer to be in front of it rather than directly overhead. You also need to DI the hit down and behind Luma.

Original Twitter source, Japanese.

 

[meticulousboy]

So this image showed up on Reddit. Infographic of Luma's uair. It looks like there are two distinct hitboxes, with the one closer to Rosalina being deadlier but lower priority compared to the other hitbox. So if you're above Luma, it's safer to be in front of it rather than directly overhead. You also need to DI the hit down and behind Luma.

Original Twitter source, Japanese.

Seems like most moves that launch at a perpendicular angle are the best. Rest is the first that comes to mind.

 

[|RK|]

Speaking of Dabuz:

https://twitter.com/DabuzSenpai/status/746102034793963524

 

[sedrf]

We feel blessed everyday.
Also if cloud is substantially nerfed do you think we will see more .
I honestly don't think it's a stigma due to their being a decent amount of .

 

[NewZen]

We feel blessed everyday.
Also if cloud is substantially nerfed do you think we will see more .
I honestly don't think it's a stigma due to their being a decent amount of .

It really depends on the degree to which they nerf Cloud (Examples include extra recovery frames on pretty much all of his aerials, KB Decreases in either F-Smash or D-Smash, or decrease in the Limit Buff, a number of things that would just make him much worse by comparison), because if it's severe enough, we may see a number of supporters drop him faster than those who dropped after he lost his guaranteed Cyclone Combo.

In terms of who would take up his mantle as, "Free, Braindead character", that's a good question, honestly. I would say more people would flock to either or .

 

[Shaya]

http://smashboards.com/threads/summer-of-smash-week-4-ceo-xanadu.438506

dedicated threadddd for the specific tournament related discussion~
Will likely award browny points for super-relevant-informative posts within it.

 

[Peppermint1201]

Shaya commentary on tournament sets, if it is tied to character viability is allowed right?

 

[Shaya]

Stuff that intends to leads to more general discussion is best here.
Such as "well from what we're seeing X character may not be as good as we rate them, having tough times in Y/Z match up consistently yadayadaa". "We're not seeing from X set that X's players have implemented blahblah"

But incidental talking about what happened in a game or set should mostly stick to the dedicated thread.

 

[sedrf]

I honestly feel characters like Roy and ganondorf have poor design philosophy .
What are some characters good/bad do you think have good/bad design

I feel falcon probably has the best design in what he supposed to be. He's a fast and powerful fighter that exudes pressure even from just looking at him. It's why he has such good running speed. stuff like that

 

[Blobface]

I honestly feel characters like Roy and ganondorf have poor design philosophy .
What are some characters good/bad do you think have good/bad design

I feel falcon probably has the best design in what he supposed to be. He's a fast and powerful fighter that exudes pressure even from just looking at him. It's why he has such good running speed. stuff like that

I wouldn't say Ganon has a poor design philosophy. He functions perfectly fine, but has too many areas that just don't have the punch to support his play style.

 

[SaltyKracka]

I wouldn't say Ganon has a poor design philosophy. He functions perfectly fine, but has too many areas that just don't have the punch to support his play style.

I would say that he has a poor design philosophy, but that's mostly because taking the weakest character in your previous iteration of the game (i.e. Brawl) and nerfing him isn't exactly the best design philosophy around.

I am the goddamn master of understatement.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

I would say that he has a poor design philosophy, but that's mostly because taking the weakest character in your previous iteration of the game (i.e. Brawl) and nerfing him isn't exactly the best design philosophy around.

I am the goddamn master of understatement.

Well, a majority of the characters from brawl were nerfed significantly and compared to many other characters, Ganon's nerfs aren't as notable. The removal of chain grabbing and edgehogging in addition to the nerfing of projectiles are huge buffs to Ganondorf and make up for a majority of the nerfs he received anyways.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Well, a majority of the characters from brawl were nerfed significantly and compared to many other characters, Ganon's nerfs aren't as notable. The removal of chain grabbing and edgehogging in addition to the nerfing of projectiles are huge buffs to Ganondorf and make up for a majority of the nerfs he received anyways.

And then they added in combos and, whoops, forgot to give him any. Oh, and he's one of the most combo-foodriffic characters in the entire cast.

System changes cut both ways, friend.

 

[HeavyLobster]

I wouldn't say Ganon has a poor design philosophy. He functions perfectly fine, but has too many areas that just don't have the punch to support his play style.

Ganon's design philosophy isn't bad, and right now he's just a bit undertuned in a couple of key areas, namely mobility, OOS game, and recovery. One more well-designed patch buffing him along with maybe 6-8 other chars would help this game's balance a lot. It is kind of tough to maintain a good skill curve with his archetype, though.