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Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

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Djent

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Much thanks to @Jams. for compiling a list of notable pool threats. It really looks as if no one gets out for free at CEO. I like it!

Dekillsage is :4sheik::4mewtwo:
Deven3000 is all :4kirby:
Mook might use :4pikachu: against M2K
I think StreetShark still mains :rosalina: EDIT: actually I'm not sure now
 
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Nobie

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Much thanks to @Jams. for compiling a list of notable pool threats. It really looks as if no one gets out for free at CEO. I like it!

Dekillsage is :4sheik::4mewtwo:
Deven3000 is all :4kirby:
Mook might use :4pikachu: against M2K
I think StreetShark still mains :rosalina:[/SPOILER
Speaking of Dekillsage, I recently found out that he's considered like a god of Skullgirls.

====* The More You Know
 

Djent

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Nobie Nobie Sage started in Brawl playing Snake. He switched to Skullgirls after his first game, err, dwindled and it's been his main focus ever since. He plays many teams and pioneered point Double (which won him EVO 2014 grand finals) and Beowulf (his main focus now). Even without focusing on Smash, the guy still finished 5th at Combo Breaker (which is better than the likes of Nite and Zinoto). He's super talented.
 
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valakmtnsmash4

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Ive been wondering, are there any notable players who have dropped cloud besides nicko? ( and he picked up marth again after months of not using him).
 
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Y2Kay

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Oh cool, a charizard. Will he make it out of pools? Heck no. But I'll keep an eye on it.
Geez fam, chill with the Zard hate. How are you gonn right the man off so soon, Draquaza is actually kinda good.

:150:
 

jespoke

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Draquaza :4charizard:, Prince Ramen :4palutena:, Tremendo Dude :4shulk: and Keitaro :4falco: are some of the many low tier heroes that find themselves in pretty harsh pools.
 

paperchao

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I remember remzi using zard against diddy back in pre-patch days due to flamethrower apparently being good against diddy, so who knows how that mu might be now that zard is drastically stronger and Diddy is weaker. Zard zss I have no idea how that would go, but probably bad for zard due to standard zss combos and edgeguarding
 

valakmtnsmash4

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Draquaza :4charizard:, Prince Ramen :4palutena:, Tremendo Dude :4shulk: and Keitaro :4falco: are some of the many low tier heroes that find themselves in pretty harsh pools.
fatality, seagull joe, and waldo are good opponents for tremendodudes pool, but they arent as bad as other opponents. Im confident Tremendodude can do decent in his pool. Its not gonna be easy making it out, but tremenodude is a pretty skilled player. Tremendodude has beaten sonics like true blue before, but fatality and waldo could be tough for him. I believe in dude :)
 
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jespoke

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I remember remzi using zard against diddy back in pre-patch days due to flamethrower apparently being good against diddy, so who knows how that mu might be now that zard is drastically stronger and Diddy is weaker. Zard zss I have no idea how that would go, but probably bad for zard due to standard zss combos and edgeguarding
Offstage Flamethrower wrecks barrel recovery. But that is useless without Dragon Rush to beat out Banana and knock Diddy low offstage
 
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paperchao

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Wait...why is Falco a low tier?
He has no representation compared to other characters, which is one of the major things you need to get viability as a character (unless you're one of the "potential" snowflakes), or you're doomed for obscurity, just look at zard.
 
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Fatmanonice

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Wait...why is Falco a low tier?
Because someone has to be. Yeah, it's weird because, like many people have been saying this year, a lot of the low and even bottom tiers in this game would have passed as mid tier in Melee and Brawl because of how well balanced this game is. As Smash players, we're so used to low/bottom tiers being gimmicky or just plain trash that it's still kind of hard for us to wrap our heads around which is why we have their weekly discussions of "wait, how is :4bowserjr:/:4duckhunt:/:4falco:/:4link:/:4gaw:/:4feroy:/:4shulk: a low tier!?"
 

Kofu

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Draquaza :4charizard:, Prince Ramen :4palutena:, Tremendo Dude :4shulk: and Keitaro :4falco: are some of the many low tier heroes that find themselves in pretty harsh pools.
Yeah, I was talking with Ramen yesterday, he's either going to make it out in losers or not at all.

Didn't realize that Sage was a threat, I'll have to let him know that.
 

TDK

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Geez fam, chill with the Zard hate. How are you gonn right the man off so soon, Draquaza is actually kinda good.

:150:
Oh, I know Draquaza is good, I've seen his matches. It's Charizard I don't think is good, not the players.

And I might've bet a friend $10 that Charizard wouldn't make it out of pools at majors for 2016 and like my money.
 
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BunbUn129

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Wait...why is Falco a low tier?
Long answer: Falco has some very nice buttons: up smash, up throw, nair, down tilt, and that back air. He's good at low-percent damage racking. However, he lacks KO set-ups and back air is his only safe KO option but it has poor range, his recovery is bad, he gets comboed and juggled hard, and though some aspects of his movement are good, like his walk speed, jump height, and air acceleration, he has mediocre air and dashing speeds, giving him trouble approaching, which is further exacerbated by his lack of a good projectile. These issues are reflected in his results and usage--or lack thereof. Though it is worth mentioning that Falco at low-level is fairly annoying to deal with due to lasers despite being heavily nerfed. If I remember correctly, in terms of popularity, Falco was at the bottom on the chart made by Das Koopa and Thinkaman.

Short answer: mobility. It's a weakness many characters in the lower half of the cast share, eg. Link, Ganondorf, Kirby, Dr. Mario.
 
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Shaya

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Roy really is awesome. But his recovery is worse than Falcon's for sure.
I do still feel that the difficult match ups (honestly not too many!) hold him back harshly, as before you reach significant competency with him any attempts will look completely one-sided. The match ups that are like fighting against brawl dedede, they can be played out evenly to an extent due to the diversity of tools (i.e. Marth, Snake, Pit, Tink mus) but before you're there....you're going to be taking their lovely grab confirm or juggle set up over and over and look like a scrub.

I do think Marth is notably better, a lot has to do with the more range. It means a lot; especially in disadvantage / combo breaking. The higher average reward is also skewed towards Marth.
In terms of design and abilities it doesn't lean towards either though, just Marth ended up being tuned stronger than Roy.

People still try to pretend he's not a swordsmen and not actively abuse what he's good at in lieu of some ideal I don't even comprehend how it took hold in the first place.
He doesn't have the weaving of ZSS, but his terms of common ZSS aerial usage (which is single direction travel in the air primarily, moving on the ground is better for repositioning), Roy's SHFF game is faster and more diverse, he doesn't have the 1 frame landing jab, but is a lot safer on that poking dtilt, ftilt or jab himself (and the better empty landing options due to grab/disjoints too).
His initial walk is speedy, and his dash jump momentum is still amazing.

And yet, there's still even more potential for this guy. I'm definitely biased, as I'm sure many other "lowly perceived" chars can argue the potential feel, but it just so happens nearly every move he holds could feasibly do more than what we're currently seeing. Not many characters have a majority of their moveset with varied knock back angles based on spacing with real consequence (most are based on timing [and these chars don't use them much either, Falcon's tipman uair is insaneeely good for example], meteor dairs and some combo dtilts are the main exception) in Smash4, it's a layer of difficulty and depth, which Roy doesn't have the diversity in usage across all levels to see pan out yet.
But soooooon, maybe.

At worst, I think Roy may be one of the most balanced chars in the cast overall, has nothing polarizing, doesn't beat or lose by much to 80%+ of the cast. Can do a lot of things but has to work for them. Marth in contrast is significantly more newb friendly (it actually hurts to admit as a proud Marth-of-old, but it's true, chock-full of oppressive easy to use buttons) after the tipper hitbox re-positioning; as I'm sure anyone who regularly goes to tournaments and watches or has to deal with 10-20% of entrants pressing c-stick forward over and over again would easily relate to.
 

TurboLink

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Things aren't looking good for Cosmos. LOL.

ZeRo's Diddy is so much more fun to watch than his Sheik.
 

PK Gaming

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Damn

Well he manage to take him to game 5 which is still pretty impressive. Hopefully he manages to do well against Void.

Scratch that, lol. Misread a tweet.
 
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ILOVESMASH

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Wait...why is Falco a low tier?
IMO the main reason why he's low tier is his recovery, which is by far the easiest in the game to edge guard. He can take over 50% damage against a majority of the cast from their edge guard attempts, which is obviously really terrible. People state that mobility is a key issue with him, but I honestly don't agree. Its around the same level of Ike and Corrin and like those characters, Falco has an amazing initial dash / Foxtrot, which aid his ability to approach. His projectile is cited as terrible, but it still is solid at forcing airdodges at long range (useful when the opponent is off stage) as well as a followup after Nair and Bair. His recovery is really the main thing I see that destroys him in most matches, as they usually end with him getting edge guarded easily as he tries to recover with Phantasm / Fire Bird.
 

FeelMeUp

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Watching VoiD absolutely DESTROY Marss then get randomly ladder'd at 40-50 over and over is kinda gross. The hell is the guy doing? DIing wrong? I don't see it happen to anyone as much as it does for him.
 

paperchao

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Watching VoiD absolutely DESTROY Marss then get randomly ladder'd at 40-50 over and over is kinda gross. The hell is the guy doing? DIing wrong? I don't see it happen to anyone as much as it does for him.
Auto link angles r dumb, void was absolutely destroying marss that game too, guess that shows why you need to play perfectly as shiek
 

Shaya

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Sheik is basically optimal for getting screwed by the boost kick roofie.
She is extremely light, lighter than before, falls out of the move easily (which for most chars is better for them) due to hurtbox animation, struggles to kill us and gives full rage 4 freeeeee. Gravity powerrrr.
 

ARISTOS

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Something I've noticed from watching both M2K and Tweek's games

Nietono, unlike James, is spot dodging a lot more, forcing a lot of whiffed dash grabs. This might be a good option to use against Clouds, who are trying to condition you to sit in shield.
 

juddy96

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Since I actually helped seed the CEO pools, I'll correct anything when these two tournaments are over. Just know that there is 1 Tier 10 (1-32), 1 Tier 9 (33-64), 2 Tier 8's (65-128) and 1 Tier 7 (129-160) in each pool. The Tier 10's and Tier 9's are seeded in exact order, 1 vs 64 etc, but the Tier 8's and 7's were randomized as to who goes in which pool
 
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my_T

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ESAM should take notes from Mooks play in game 5 vs DKwill. Mook took the lead and just ran away which proved to be very effective; especially with DK and his sub-par neutral.
 

juddy96

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BTW that is a huge win for Mook, he is ranked #16 in Monterrey, which is Mexico's 2nd strongest region
 

zeldasmash

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Characters that can make it under Battlefield:
:4luigi: :4peach: :rosalina: :4wario: :4bowserjr: :4diddy: :4gaw: :4zelda: :4sheik: :4tlink: ( :4pit: / :4darkpit: ) :4kirby: :4dedede: :4metaknight: :4fox: :4falco: :4pikachu: :4jigglypuff: :4lucario: :4greninja: :4duckhunt: :4rob: :4villager: :4olimar: (0/1/2 Pikmin) :4wiifit: :4shulk: :4pacman: :4sonic: :4mewtwo: :4bayonetta2:

This is open for contention.
I'm pretty sure Link can make it under Battlefield. I think Samus can also make it under it. I think Marcina can also make it but they are much harder to do.
 
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