Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Megamang]

Character boards are notoriously delusional... errr, I mean optimistic, in regards to their MUs, especially in ones where they do surprisingly well, or surprisingly poorly in some cases, compared to what the standard belief is.

For example, no one believes Megaman beats Cloud, but you'll see.

You'll all see.

 

[DunnoBro]

Are we looking at Cloud and Rosa as his worst MUs?

Yes. Rosa is just awful on every level except edgeguarding for sonic. Sonic doesn't like cloud but he also just doesn't like swordies in general.

These two characters are just simply too good at getting landings + covering ledge options (since ledge jump is a total death sentence for most characters without special escape options)

 

[soniczx123]

With Sonic winning a tournament, now is probably a good time to ask - who is Sonic's worst MU? And, more broadly, who does he actually lose to?

Most of the characters that do or did well against him have been nerfed harder than he has. Are we looking at Cloud and Rosa as his worst MUs?

Fox , Cloud and Megaman are our worst Match ups. Sheik and ZSS are easier to handle now thanks to the nerf. Ike is even but extremely volatile on Sonic's side.

 

[Ghostbone]

Character boards are notoriously delusional... errr, I mean optimistic, in regards to their MUs

For example, no one believes Megaman beats Cloud, but you'll see

I mean you realise the irony here right.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Cloud isn't that bad -probably not harder than Ike tbh- but Rosie gives Sonic a really hard time, there's not much to argue there. Still Sonic barely loses any matchups and they're all doable overall.

I probably sound like a broken record at this point when it comes to Sonic but I'll gladly repeat myself once more: people who think Sonic is "overrated" or "not that good" haven't done their homework. There's way too many mediocre Sonic players out there whose game plan revolves entirely around Spin Dash and then get destroyed once their opponent adapts to that move. I haven't seen KEN's performance of the last Umebura tournament but up until now Komorikiri was the only Sonic player to consistently make good use of Spin Dash. Manny, Joe, Ixis and 6wx are all pretty good but I don't think any of them could rival Komirikiri's A-Level play. Just look at how safely he'd defeat Ally at Umebura FAT - it wasn't destruction but there was virtually no point in the entire set where Komorikiri came close to losing or wasn't in control of the game. In a way that's similar to how Diddy works though Sonic isn't as consistent. It's hard work to play Sonic well and this community doesn't care too much about that so it's no surprise that Sonic's metagame isn't where it could be [outside of Japan].

 

[AxelVDP]

I feel kinda bad for posting this again but

ANYWAY
I just wanted to chime in and inform you that tomorrow will be held the biggest italian tourney, ICARUS II
schedule:
Saturday
9:00 UTC to 17:00 UTC - Pools
Sunday
12:00 UTC to 15:00 UTC - top 64
15:00 UTC to 17:00 UTC - top 8
[... ]
It will probably be streamed at https://www.twitch.tv/smashbrositalia for anyone interested

top 64 is starting now! (http://sbit.challonge.com/ICARUSIItop64 here's the bracket)

edit:
top 8 right now
Winners Side:
- BlueLink
- Shunf
- Lanz
- Genarog
Losers Side:
- Elmoro
- Ryusei ()
- Orso ()
- MarthForever

quite a few upsets happened during the top 64 O_O

 

[soniczx123]

Cloud isn't that bad -probably not harder than Ike tbh- but Rosie gives Sonic a really hard time, there's not much to argue there. Still Sonic barely loses any matchups and they're all doable overall.

I probably sound like a broken record at this point when it comes to Sonic but I'll gladly repeat myself once more: people who think Sonic is "overrated" or "not that good" haven't done their homework. There's way too many mediocre Sonic players out there whose game plan revolves entirely around Spin Dash and then get destroyed once their opponent adapts to that move. I haven't seen KEN's performance of the last Umebura tournament but up until now Komorikiri was the only Sonic player to consistently make good use of Spin Dash. Manny, Joe, Ixis and 6wx are all pretty good but I don't think any of them could rival Komirikiri's A-Level play. Just look at how safely he'd defeat Ally at Umebura FAT - it wasn't destruction but there was virtually no point in the entire set where Komorikiri came close to losing or wasn't in control of the game. In a way that's similar to how Diddy works though Sonic isn't as consistent. It's hard work to play Sonic well and this community doesn't care too much about that so it's no surprise that Sonic's metagame isn't where it could be [outside of Japan].

This.

The West is trying to reach that level as well, Japan just got there earlier.

 

[Yikarur]

Top8 of "Marius Ex Treverorum Tournament" in germany
Challonge: http://challonge.com/MEFB
1. pM cyve
2. quiK
3. UA Jbandrew (he took games off quiK and cyve with Bayonetta and Diddy but didn't win the sets)
4. wusi
5. Purple~H
5. Yikarur
7. AtroX Longouw
7. MyMo Eddy

 

[TimidKitsune129]

The top 8 for Umebura 22 was posted earlier, but the results weren't. So here ya go:

1) KEN
2)Shuton
3)Nietono
4)Kamemushi
5)kept
5)Eim
7)Brood
7)bAhuto

Also, I'm surprised you all haven't talked about Olimar's amazing performance in this tournament yet. Shuton is probably the best Olimar I have ever seen, beating Nietono's Diddy Kong and taking KEN's Sonic to a very close third match that came to last hit. His excellent use of Pikmin and knowledge of when exactly to use them is beyond what I've seen from other Olimar players. Some of the things I noticed from his play:

1. He threw away his yellow Pikmin at the beginning of the match, because he felt he didn't need yellows at such low percentages. He took out the white that follows yellow instead and used side-b to get in good early damage.
2. He used the purples' hitstun for followups (such as grabs and airs).
3. He only ever went for a kill throw if he had a blue, since blues have the strongest throw knockback.

Just watching this Olimar play was worth staying up for~

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Olimar is on the rise in the US and Japan lately, shuton in top 3 and surprisingly 9b and abadango were out before top 8. Nice to see some less common characters being seen in high level.

 

[Peppermint1201]

Megaman has had a very good month, in the past two weeks alone he has won Fusion (featuring Florida's best) and Top 8ed an Umebura with Aba, 9B, Shu, etc. in attendance. I think it's pretty unreasonable to say Megaman is a mid-tier or just worse than the Ike/ROB/Falcon level of viability at this point.

Also it's worth noting that Kept won one of his games (in a best of 3 set) with a one-hit KO via a pocketed tree:
http://oddshot.tv/shot/shi-gaming-201604248723774

A loss is a loss, but it wouldn't surprise me if Abadango would've won that set in a best of 5 or with a little more MU experience.

 

[Nobie]

Megaman has had a very good month, in the past two weeks alone he has won Fusion (featuring Florida's best) and Top 8ed an Umebura with Aba, 9B, Shu, etc. in attendance. I think it's pretty unreasonable to say Megaman is a mid-tier or just worse than the Ike/ROB/Falcon level of viability at this point.

Also it's worth noting that Kept won one of his games (in a best of 3 set) with a one-hit KO via a pocketed tree:
http://oddshot.tv/shot/shi-gaming-201604248723774

A loss is a loss, but it wouldn't surprise me if Abadango would've won that set in a best of 5 or with a little more MU experience.

I feel like a lot of character mains claim positive matchups against Mega Man that don't exactly show it, possibly an effect of having had a bad Sheik matchup for so long. Not saying that Mega Mains were giving the Greninja story ("Sheik holds us back from Top TIer"), but I remember someone in here talking about how Falcon clearly beats Mega Man, only for ScAtt to more recently beat Fatality on more than one occasion.

 

[Shady Shaymin]

What's ZeRo been up to since 1.1.5? Haven't heard about him or seen him in tour for a while. Is he sticking with Sheik? He definitely has the consistency to abuse her still-oppressive strengths and create openings for her even with her now limited kill options. On the other hand he's equally proficient with Diddy, who, despite being weaker than Sheik in certain areas, has a more consistent killing game and superior weight. Ultimately I think it'll come down to whoever fares better in this meta.

 

[Peppermint1201]

What's ZeRo been up to since 1.1.5? Haven't heard about him or seen him in tour for a while. Is he sticking with Sheik? He definitely has the consistency to abuse her still-oppressive strengths and create openings for her even with her now limited kill options. On the other hand he's equally proficient with Diddy, who, despite being weaker than Sheik in certain areas, has a more consistent killing game and superior weight. Ultimately I think it'll come down to whoever fares better in this meta.

ZeRo has had to take a break from tournaments due to an injury, the specifics of which he is keeping private. I believe he is still using Diddy as well as Sheik.

 

[bc1910]

Not saying that Mega Mains were giving the Greninja story ("Sheik holds us back from Top TIer")

This was never said.

Sheik was Greninja's gatekeeper. He didn't have the MU spread for a top tier even without her, and no-one was denying this. However, she was holding him back from significantly better results including potential tournament wins. This has been proven by the fact that his record against her and record in general has improved since her nerf. Greninja has faced far fewer double Sheik eliminations.

 

[FallofBrawl]

I remember way back when, during pre patch Diddy reign, there were rumblings that Olimar did really well against him due to his walling abilities, rivalled damage racking, stronger but less consistent killpower in Monique, and pikmin being able to run back with banana.

How does the MU fare now? Diddy has been nerfed but has jumped aeons in terms of his meta. While Olimar hasn't been touched (except for custom Pikmin silliness) but due to his small player pool, he hasn't seen the advancement Diddy has.

Would be unsurprising if Olimar was like one diddy's 3 bad MUs

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Nobie how many matches do you think it takes to determine a MU, or change it?

Cuz I think Scatt beating Fatality a few times doesn't really prove much on its own. Could be inexperience on fatality's part, Scatt being better, or many other factors.

 

[Nekoo]

Nobie how many matches do you think it takes to determine a MU, or change it?

Cuz I think Scatt beating Fatality a few times doesn't really prove much on its own. Could be inexperience on fatality's part, Scatt being better, or many other factors.

The problem with this reasoning is that it's applicable to each match-up. To each player etc...

 

[Joey T.]

Hi guys, I've been lurking in this forum for a while and finally decided to join!

One thing that catches my attention is the lack of ZSS in the top 8 of this Umebura. Does she have any representation in Japan (besides Choco)?

Also, I think it's really nice the character variety this game has in the competitive scene, it's amazing how a character like DHD, who is generally considered low tier, can suddenly place 7th in a national.

 

[Y2Kay]

Nobie how many matches do you think it takes to determine a MU, or change it?

Cuz I think Scatt beating Fatality a few times doesn't really prove much on its own. Could be inexperience on fatality's part, Scatt being better, or many other factors.

They both live in the Atlanta area.They should be pretty familiar with each other by now.

 

[Locke 06]

Nobie how many matches do you think it takes to determine a MU, or change it?

Cuz I think Scatt beating Fatality a few times doesn't really prove much on its own. Could be inexperience on fatality's part, Scatt being better, or many other factors.

Do you realize that Fatality and ScAtt are from the same region and play each other most often? And that the two of them basically write the book on the matchup?

If someone ever says they understand the matchup, and then say they haven't studied scatt v Fatality, they probably don't understand the matchup.

 

[Nekoo]

Must be really nice to have a top-player training partner when you think about it. Or just a training partner. They must be the one who truly understand the game when they don't have to rely to theory and can test them directly at high level....

When we are just nerd who try to create theory...

 

[dakotaisgreat]

I'm not sure if this is the place to ask, so forgive me if I'm in the wrong here please.

Does anyone have any idea when the next tier list may come out? I've been reading this thread for about the last 40 pages or so, at the time it seemed that Roy and Olimar were going to be lowered from their spots in the previous list, but now it looks as if they've gotten some new results and may stay in place.

What do you guys think of Charizard? This patch especially I'm feeling like he has a lot more potential then people give him credit for, but I can't think of anyone who represents the character, and I've been following since this game released. I know he has trouble landing and is combo food, but there's just so much about the character that I think is quite strong, I really think it's just because nobody is using him. Anyone agree? Disagree?

 

[Cereal Bawks]

I mean you realise the irony here right.

Wasn't that the joke?

 

[BunbUn129]

I'm not sure if this is the place to ask, so forgive me if I'm in the wrong here please.

Does anyone have any idea when the next tier list may come out? I've been reading this thread for about the last 40 pages or so, at the time it seemed that Roy and Olimar were going to be lowered from their spots in the previous list, but now it looks as if they've gotten some new results and may stay in place.

What do you guys think of Charizard? This patch especially I'm feeling like he has a lot more potential then people give him credit for, but I can't think of anyone who represents the character, and I've been following since this game released. I know he has trouble landing and is combo food, but there's just so much about the character that I think is quite strong, I really think it's just because nobody is using him. Anyone agree? Disagree?

I think the 4BR is aiming to get the next list out in August (?). About character placements, with the way the current meta is after 1.1.5 and if a list was made on that:

Dropping on the next list:
, and is still likely to drop, as several characters below him like D3, Samus, DH, and Mac are getting similar or better results.

Rising on the next list:

, and yeah will probably climb out of bottom 10, but the problems he faces are mainly his rep, and if this is solved, I can see Zard climbing up to a decent mid-tier on the level of Bowser.

 

[Nekoo]

I'm not sure if this is the place to ask, so forgive me if I'm in the wrong here please.

Does anyone have any idea when the next tier list may come out? I've been reading this thread for about the last 40 pages or so, at the time it seemed that Roy and Olimar were going to be lowered from their spots in the previous list, but now it looks as if they've gotten some new results and may stay in place.

Yeah. Second at Umebura is a big feat for Olimar.

And i don't know how you can lower Roy when he's already in Low-Tiers and it's i think his best place. I don't see how he can be lower.

What do you guys think of Charizard? This patch especially I'm feeling like he has a lot more potential then people give him credit for, but I can't think of anyone who represents the character, and I've been following since this game released. I know he has trouble landing and is combo food, but there's just so much about the character that I think is quite strong, I really think it's just because nobody is using him. Anyone agree? Disagree?

Charizard is for me kind of a wild card. He look like a great character who even if he's not the best of the combo master character and might lack the combo game from his heavies companion like DK or Bowser. I can see him like a Rack-up Damage character with well spaced N-air and B-air, Space with his Flamethrower, who suddlently unleash a fatal blow to take the stock like his Up-Throw, Up-B OOS ,Side B or B-air. This is mostly how i can see him be played...i don't have big experience about charizard except some set on Anther Ladder so i might be completely wrong...

In my opinion there isn't enough player at a major to really see where we should place him on the tier-list... Kind of Like Roy.


By the way. I want to apologize guys in general for my english. It's obviously not my first language... But i really want to disscuss the metagame with you now that i want to take the game seriously.

 

[AxelVDP]

top 8 for Icarus II
1) BlueLink (he used mainly regular Link tho)(used in top 16/8 sometimes)(used in GF once to win a game)
2) MarthForever
3) Lanz
4) Shunf (he was the one sending Elmoro's Bayonetta to the losers side with quite a solid performance and AMAZING DI)
5) Genarog (used only once against MarthForever and lost)
5) Ryusei (used in a game in top 8 but lost)( dunno if he used him) (as you can see he likes big swords)
7) Elmoro
7) Orso (I think he went solo Ganon tho, might have used Bowser offscreen)

I just wanted to say that by watching BlueLink play I almost started to believe that RadicalLarry might not be all that crazy while talking about Link (almost though)
I think that some of the matches played were quite interesting to say the least, in particular the ones played by BlueLink, MarthForever and Orso, so I kind of recomed to give 'em a look if you have some spare time (I might link them in this very thread when they'll be finally uploaded on youtube, they really give some perspective on some matchups)

extra: tied at 9th: Chimera, Danu, Dinamirer, Enygma (used like half the cast so I don't feel like listing anyone)

I'm (probably) done with my talking about this tournament, I hope I didn't annoy anyone

 

[BunbUn129]

top 8 for Icarus II
1) BlueLink (he used mainly regular Link tho)(used in top 16/8 sometimes)(used in GF once to win a game)
2) MarthForever
3) Lanz
4) Shunf (he was the one sending Elmoro's Bayonetta to the losers side with quite a solid performance and AMAZING DI)
5) Genarog (used only once against MarthForever and lost)
5) Ryusei (used in a game in top 8 but lost)( dunno if he used him) (as you can see he likes big swords)
7) Elmoro
7) Orso (I think he went solo Ganon tho, might have used Bowser offscreen)

I just wanted to say that by watching BlueLink play I almost started to believe that RadicalLarry might not be all that crazy while talking about Link (almost though)
I think that some of the matches played were quite interesting to say the least, in particular the ones played by BlueLink, MarthForever and Orso, so I kind of recomed to give 'em a look if you have some spare time (I might link them in this very thread when they'll be finally uploaded on youtube, they really give some perspective on some matchups)

extra: tied at 9th: Chimera, Danu, Dinamirer, Enygma (used like half the cast so I don't feel like listing anyone)

I'm (probably) done with my talking about this tournament, I hope I didn't annoy anyone

Ganon, Link, DK, and Lucas in top 8, without any Sheik or ZSS? What has the world come to....?

 

[Nekoo]

top 8 for Icarus II
1) BlueLink (he used mainly regular Link tho)(used in top 16/8 sometimes)(used in GF once to win a game)
2) MarthForever
3) Lanz
4) Shunf (he was the one sending Elmoro's Bayonetta to the losers side with quite a solid performance and AMAZING DI)
5) Genarog (used only once against MarthForever and lost)
5) Ryusei (used in a game in top 8 but lost)( dunno if he used him) (as you can see he likes big swords)
7) Elmoro
7) Orso (I think he went solo Ganon tho, might have used Bowser offscreen)

I just wanted to say that by watching BlueLink play I almost started to believe that RadicalLarry might not be all that crazy while talking about Link (almost though)
I think that some of the matches played were quite interesting to say the least, in particular the ones played by BlueLink, MarthForever and Orso, so I kind of recomed to give 'em a look if you have some spare time (I might link them in this very thread when they'll be finally uploaded on youtube, they really give some perspective on some matchups)

extra: tied at 9th: Chimera, Danu, Dinamirer, Enygma (used like half the cast so I don't feel like listing anyone)

I'm (probably) done with my talking about this tournament, I hope I didn't annoy anyone

I did saw the tournament. Great tourney guys! You have some good level! Nice to see the opening of the European scene of Smash 4!

 

[AxelVDP]

Ganon, Link, DK, and Lucas in top 8, without any Sheik or ZSS? What has the world come to....?

Well, to be honest there really isn't any solid ZSS in Italy, and Enygma (one of the better players there) who co-mains Sheik was playing rather poorly for his standards today
there also are a decent number of mid to highish level Rosas who also did not perform well

 

[C0rvus]

I can't say I've ever been impressed by Charizard play. Like, I don't want to say that no one plays the character right, but that largely seems to be the case. When I look at Zard, I see a character that wants to stay grounded, and set up ledge situations, where he gets free damage or the kill. Jab, down tilt, Flamethrower and his grab are all strong ground tools, and up smash and tilt are both incredible anti-airs. His aerials are more for stuffing approaches, covering platforms or ledge options, or edge guards.

Charizard needs to make up for his lack of reward compared to the premier heavies by controlling space more carefully and pressing his unique advantages in ledge and platform coverage. I see him as a character that thrives in controlling space and having the explosive kill potential and the ability to live for a long time that other heavies have.

Obviously not having a ding dong equivalent hurts him, since he cannot make up for poor MUs through sheer clutch power. His disadvantage should be better than it is, because his midair jumps are very low, and so is his air speed. He has sort of a combo breaker in Fly or Rock Smash, but they are incredibly high commitment and somewhat unreliable. His traction is also kinda bad, and so is his wide af hurtbox.

I want to reserve my opinion of the character until he gets out there a little more. It's clear he's not great, but he could potentially be on par with Bowser or better. We just don't know.

 

[dakotaisgreat]

Obviously not having a ding dong equivalent hurts him, since he cannot make up for poor MUs through sheer clutch power.

To be honest when you have *arguably* the best kill throw in the game, you need a ding dong much less.

I say arguably because unlick Mewtwo's up throw, Charizard can use platforms, and also accumulates and holds onto rage much easier than Mewtwo. Olimar doesn't hold onto rage well either, and also can't use platforms, aside from a blue pikmin serving as a huge warning to the opponent. F and B kill throws need to be on a certain side of the stage/facing a certain direction etc.

But yeah, aside from the amazing kill throw he also has a solid combo throw, an amazing jab, good range, solid recovery (even though its the #1 thing I see charizard players ******** about cuz muh flying type), super heavy, some good disjoints, all of his specials have a use, an alright projectile, and so many more tools. I understand you could make a list of strengths for almost any character in this game, save for like Jigglypuff and Zelda, but there is just no way I could be convinced Charizard is as bad as people seem to think.

 

[Y2Kay]

To be honest when you have *arguably* the best kill throw in the game, needing a ding dong is a lot less needed.

I say arguably because unlick Mewtwo's up throw, Charizard can use platforms, and also accumulates and holds onto rage much easier than Mewtwo. Olimar doesn't hold onto rage well either, and also can't use platforms, aside from a blue pikmin serving as a huge warning to the opponent. F and B kill throws need to be on a certain side of the stage/facing a certain direction etc.

But yeah, aside from the amazing kill throw he also has a solid combo throw, an amazing jab, good range, solid recovery (even though its the #1 thing I see charizard players ******** about cuz muh flying type), super heavy, some good disjoints, all of his specials have a use, an alright projectile, and so many more tools. I understand you could make a list of strengths for almost any character in this game, save for like Jigglypuff and Zelda, but there is just no way I could be convinced Charizard is as bad as people seem to think.

Don't let Browny see this post.

He gets triggered so hard when people think Zard's kill throw is better.

From my experience with Zard I believe his pretty decent. I don't think he's out classed by the other heavies, but his damage output is noticeably lower than DK and Bowser.

 

[TheGoodGuava]

I can't say I've ever been impressed by Charizard play. Like, I don't want to say that no one plays the character right, but that largely seems to be the case. When I look at Zard, I see a character that wants to stay grounded, and set up ledge situations, where he gets free damage or the kill. Jab, down tilt, Flamethrower and his grab are all strong ground tools, and up smash and tilt are both incredible anti-airs. His aerials are more for stuffing approaches, covering platforms or ledge options, or edge guards.

Charizard needs to make up for his lack of reward compared to the premier heavies by controlling space more carefully and pressing his unique advantages in ledge and platform coverage. I see him as a character that thrives in controlling space and having the explosive kill potential and the ability to live for a long time that other heavies have.

Obviously not having a ding dong equivalent hurts him, since he cannot make up for poor MUs through sheer clutch power. His disadvantage should be better than it is, because his midair jumps are very low, and so is his air speed. He has sort of a combo breaker in Fly or Rock Smash, but they are incredibly high commitment and somewhat unreliable. His traction is also kinda bad, and so is his wide af hurtbox.

I want to reserve my opinion of the character until he gets out there a little more. It's clear he's not great, but he could potentially be on par with Bowser or better. We just don't know.

Not having a dingdong equivalent doesn't hurt much, I honestly prefer his upthrow to Bowsers upthrow confirm. It doesn't need specific % range that gets ****ed over by rage. Its a 120% stock cap without platforms, with platforms it can kill as early as 70%, if i still had all my old replays from 1.1.4 I could show you it killing my friends C. Falcon at like 25% with it on Duck Hunt. He also does have some 50/50s with downthrow -> upair/fair/rar bair but I still have yet to completely labbed them out

Pros:
-good neutral tools
-good edgeguarding capabilities
-explosive kill power
-best upthrow in the game on everywhere but FD and 1/3 of Duck Hunt
-good recovery
-C L U T C H
-decent landing options landing options
-high risk high reward

Cons:
-overall bad disadvantage
-not the greatest combo breaker
-heavy frame data
-bad aerial mobility
-high risk high reward

 

[Emblem Lord]

Y2Kay

I see you fam. Got time to post but cant spar with ya boy?

I feel ya fam. its cool.

Word up.

On topic: Seeing you people overrate charizard never ceases to amuse me. Please go back to talking about his amazing aerial recovery frames. 20 frame nair?! 24 frame bair?! Way too good guys.

Meanwhile Captain Falcon over here with 12 frame bair and nair.

But by all means keep overrating this garbage character that is worthless in the meta and will never consistently win a major without more buffs.

 

[TheGoodGuava]

Y2Kay

I see you fam. Got time to post but cant spar with ya boy?

I feel ya fam. its cool.

Word up.

On topic: Seeing you people overrate charizard never ceases to amuse me. Please go back to talking about his amazing aerial recovery frames. 20 frame nair?! 24 frame bair?! Way too good guys.

Meanwhile Captain Falcon over here with 12 frame bair and nair.

But by all means keep overrating this garbage character that is worthless in the meta and will never consistently win a major without more buffs.

nobody is saying he's any where near as good as C. Falcon, were just saying hes better than bottom 10 lmao

 

[Emblem Lord]

nobody is saying he's any where near as good as C. Falcon, were just saying hes better than bottom 10 lmao

Except Charizard is bottom 10

 

[TheGlove]

Does anyone know how good of a Sheik Eim is? Kamemushi beat him 2-0 using only Megaman with a really strong game one. Game two was last stock last hit. Also wondering when Kamemushi picked up Yoshi, as far as I knew his secondary was cloud. He used it to counterpick Shuton's Olimar and took game 2 with it, game three was another last stock high percentage situation. It seemed like yoshi's large hitboxes allowed him to deal collateral damage to Shuton's pickman when attacking as well as remove them easily, although I doubt that's the sole reason for the counterpick. Do any yoshi mains here have an opinion on the olimar MU?

 

[TheGoodGuava]

Except Charizard is bottom 10

If Charizard is bottom 10 then Bowser is bottom 10, stop with the ****ty b8

 

[Nekoo]

If Charizard is bottom 10 then Bowser is bottom 10, stop with the ****ty b8

Oh god... i hope you have something to back up your claim because you just started a battle and god know you're not going to win this.