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Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

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TTTTTsd

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It doesn't need to be punishable due to the charge time required for it. Shielding this move and then resetting to neutral is a win. The biggest issues its low cooldown presents are for ledge/edgeguarding traps, not because you can throw it out safely. If you're not getting reward of some kind when you throw it out your punishment is no more limit.
The charge time and the time it takes to accumulate are so incredibly paltry. The ease of camping and the fact that it stacks with damage and hits combined means you are getting it twice if not THRICE on average per stock.

The only time you're punished for whiffing it tbh is when you're way past kill %. There are rare instances I've actually been hard punished for using it but it took a lot.

Making it weaker doesn't change how ridiculously safe it is and I think that is the CORE reason it's dumb. Where and how it kills comes later but if you literally can't run up shield it and punish it reliably unless you're a specific character this should probably be the first thing on the mind about an explosive kill move, no?

I feel more frustrated than I should be right now.
 
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LancerStaff

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When I look at Cloud's Uair it reminds me of Diddy's before the nerf... Wouldn't surprise me if they took the first active frame or two off like with Diddy to neuter his air game. Most characters can just stand underneath Cloud and avoid the later frames of the attack.
 

TheGlove

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While I am loathe to bring up more of the "Is Lucina ever better than Marth" discussion, I was watching EagleLAN 2016 on https://www.twitch.tv/MVG_League and I noticed that Ryo and Cherubi were making Ike Lucina work pretty well. There has been some talk about whether Marth may be a much more effective doubles character than than a singles character, and logically most of the same reasoning applies to Lucina. The question is whether Lucina's weaker but more balanced, and honestly still fairly strong, moves are more or less useful in a 2v2 where its a bit harder to space and taking the extra time to try to get a tipper may result in a missed followup opportunity.

On the flip-side due to the tipper size buffs getting followups with Marth's tipper forward air isn't very hard and that is his most often used followup in team combo situations. He also has a higher ability to finish opponents off off stage. In theory you could use sourspots to setup longer team strings, but due to less knockback there would be less hitstun so this may be counter intuitive in some cases.

Setups Into smashes, specifically upsmash, may favor Lucina due to finicky tipper hitboxes

Personally I feel like the difference between the two is probably lessened even more in doubles, but Marth still has a very slight advantage due to his ability to kill earlier with Ariels in advantageous situations.
 

Aaron1997

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Everyone talking about versatility but nobody is mentioning the king of versatility which is :4pacman: ?

His Fruits and Hydrant can be used in so many ways its unbelievable. He can use his fruits/hydrant for combos, landing, Water shenanigans, Edge guarding, Stage control. His fruits can act as Pesto-shines when Z-dropped and optimized. He has so many angles the Hydrant can be launched/set-up. He can change his playing style at anytime depending on the situation. I haven't even got to trampoline yet. Trampoline is a frame 1 OOS that sets up ledge traps, Sets-up Hydrant and can be used on top of the Hydrant to cause the water to shot vertical and not diagonally.about
 

KamikazePotato

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Aug 25, 2014
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Watching TremendoDude - he plays Shulk like a beast and still consistently messes up the back air. That move is too damn slow.

EDIT - He won his pools against a Pikachu in the finals. Dude is inspiring.
 
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Baby_Sneak

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Everyone talking about versatility but nobody is mentioning the king of versatility which is :4pacman: ?

His Fruits and Hydrant can be used in so many ways its unbelievable. He can use his fruits/hydrant for combos, landing, Water shenanigans, Edge guarding, Stage control. His fruits can act as Pesto-shines when Z-dropped and optimized. He has so many angles the Hydrant can be launched/set-up. He can change his playing style at anytime depending on the situation. I haven't even got to trampoline yet. Trampoline is a frame 1 OOS that sets up ledge traps, Sets-up Hydrant and can be used on top of the Hydrant to cause the water to shot vertical and not diagonally.about
Characters like him ARE versatile; that is true and they are highly expressive. But, with pacman specifically, his killing issues are a bit extreme (that's actually a common theme among his friends mega man and duck hunt).
 
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Nysyr

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Nov 5, 2014
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If Lucario were as widespread, I think he'd be getting the same complaints as Bayo. Sure, his kill options aren't present *all* the time. But when they're there...?
His kill options incredibly slow. Like, bottom of the cast slow. If Lucario didn't have AS charge, and the best standing grab in the game, he would be absolute trash.

Aura is balanced around his poor frame data, if you want to even out his curve you would need to give back his Brawl disjoints, or give him frame data to justify his low mobility and damage.

Also calling him a dishonest character is a poor way of thinking of it. Do you think because other characters have better frame data/more options that they should have the privilege of advantage in neutral, and at the same time have comparable kill %s? Think of Lucario as the only viable "heavy" in this game, where your autopilot play will get you destroyed.
 
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TheGlove

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This is very late but uponlooking at the comments on DkWills matchup chart on his twitter I found that he views a -2 as a 40/60 and 30/70 as -3. Having doable and heavily volatile match ups due do kill potential and survivablity against most of the cast is still pretty good in the grand scheme of things.
 

KenMeister

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His kill options incredibly slow. Like, bottom of the cast slow. If Lucario didn't have AS charge, and the best standing grab in the game, he would be absolute trash.

Aura is balanced around his poor frame data, if you want to even out his curve you would need to give back his Brawl disjoints, or give him frame data to justify his low mobility and damage.

Also calling him a dishonest character is a poor way of thinking of it. Do you think because other characters have better frame data/more options that they should have the privilege of advantage in neutral, and at the same time have comparable kill %s? Think of Lucario as the only viable "heavy" in this game, where your autopilot play will get you destroyed.
Anyone still complaining about Lucario this far into the meta needs to look up how important neutral is in high level play.
 

PK Gaming

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Man

More people need to talk about Ike's incredible initial dash, because goddamn

Ryo gets a ton of mileage out of it (especially with those dash to shields or dash attack)
 
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Wintermelon43

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Characters like him ARE versatile; that is true and they are highly expressive. But, with pacman specifically, his killing issues are a bit extreme (that's actually a common theme among his friends mega man and duck hunt).
So, I'm assuming what you meant by that is :4pacman::4megaman::4duckhunt: all have killing issues (I could be wrong, correct me if so). In which case, I disagree with that :4megaman: has killing issues. From the air, he has both up air and back air. Up air can kill at random percents, espiciailly if you use it after up-b. Back air is fast and has high knockback, and this is even better from near the ledge. He also has down air for edgeguarding, although its startup makes it rarely hit.

His smashes all have great knockback, forward smash has great range though to being a projectile, up smash and down smash have crazy knockback and up smash is fast. Getting a read on the opponent can result in a decent kill that isn't at too high of a percentage.
 

Y2Kay

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Xaltis just got eliminated by Lucas main named Son

This match up in particular is very interesting. Lucas has been winning it a lot more recently

:150:
 

Djent

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Here's a player write-up intended for inclusion in a front-page article on Umebura 22. I don't think I finished it in time, so I'm posting it here instead. Check it out:

Abadango :4mewtwo::4metaknight: needs no introduction, as he is coming in hot off his first supermajor win at Pound 2016. Though he's previously won several other tournaments (including an Umebura and the NicoNico Tokaigi 2016 invitational), none of those accomplishments quite compare to the devastation he unleashed just earlier this month. Even with such strong momentum, he faces a lot of tough competition, and it is quite common to see Japan's revolving ensemble of top players dethrone each other in quick succession. So Abadango must be in top form to continue his annihilation streak.
9B :4bayonetta: has been steadily improving with Bayonetta, reaching the point where he is clearly Japan's best representative of the character. He cleaned up the competition at Sumabato 9, hardly struggling at all along the way. He also put in work at Karisuma 6, making him the reigning champion of two regular tournament series. While he has a few recent losses to players beneath his level, he always manages to make it far regardless and the rematches are never pretty. He is perhaps the greatest threat to Abadango and the second favorite to win the entire event.
Rain :4sheik::4cloud2: should be familiar to anyone who follows the Umebura series. He's won half of their regular singles events for Smash Wii U, and to date is the only player to win consecutive events! Though he did have a rough few months in late 2015, he bounced back during the first quarter of this year. He managed to win both the Umebura Genesis Cup and Umebura 21 in succession, dropping no sets at either event. He also devastated the doubles bracket at Genesis 3 with his powerful Cloud secondary, sending FOW and MJG to losers early on and ultimately finishing in 4th place. His teams partner there was none other than:
DNG|Nietono :4diddy:, another long-standing veteran of the Japanese Smash scene. Nietono is no character loyalist; he's changed his main from Sheik to Fox to Brawler to Diddy over the course of the game. He was most recently sighted using Sheik again, but that was before the 1.1.5 patch. He seems to have returned to Diddy once more. He is certainly Japan's strongest representative of the character at this point. You can never quite be sure which characters he'll break out in tournament, or even if his odd character choices will end up working out in his favor.
Earth :4pit::4corrinf: is a name that most of you will recognize, whether from his top 16 placing at Genesis 3 or his frequent top 8 appearances in tournaments all over Japan. He is best known for his Pit, but has recently been investing a lot of time into Corrin as well. It seems like he prefers to use mostly one or the other at any given event, so there's no way to be sure what you'll see from him this time. Regardless, you can expect him to make it far in bracket, as his one unusually poor performance seems to have been a fluke.
Choco:4zss::4peach: has been receiving less attention now that Marss has arguably claimed the spot as the world's 2nd best ZSS player. But this is unfortunate, because he is still a tremendous threat to virtually any player. Besides Cloud and Diddy, the other characters he's struggled with have been heavily nerfed. His most recent appearance was at the eSR Cup, which he won after a drawn-out set with Songn in Grand Finals. Less well-known to foreigners is his lethal Peach secondary, which he has been using more often in difficult matchups. You may see him fall back on her if ZSS isn't working out.
Not only do Kamemushi and Daiki :4megaman::substitute: both main the same uncommon character, but they also frequently team together in doubles to devastating (and hilarious) effect. Their incredible synergy proves that their strategy is no gimmick; it even carried them to victory at Umebura's recent team tournament. Kamemushi also uses Cloud seriously in singles, which has proved useful for patching up bad matchups and secured him a positive record vs. Choco. He in particular has been terrorizing the Kanto scene for the past few months, with several impressive top 8 finishes.
Atelier :rosalina: has risen to stardom fairly quickly. In the past few months, he's had good showings at Sumabato events, finishing 4th at #7 and 3rd at #9. On top of this, he also placed 3rd at Karisuma 6. Though he struggles with unusual characters (Wario, D3, and especially Lucas), he's very well-versed in more common matchups. This shows through his wins against Aki (Sheik/Ryu) and ikep (Bayo). It worth noting that even Japan's best players catch a tough break sometimes, and it appears like Atelier is still learning quickly. He's got a decent chance of adding another top 8 to his expanding resume.
Motsunabe :4lucario::4ryu: is most known for winning Umebura 20 back in December. After dropping Winners Finals, he managed to defeat both Rain and KEN to claim his first offline victory. He also performed adirmably at the SHIG Tournament, finishing 3rd with wins over Kie, KEN, and Kamemushi. He seems to struggle against Choco's ZSS, and given his choice of main, would probably like to avoid Cloud players as well. But between Lucario's comeback factor and the added flexibility of a Ryu secondary, it's difficult to count Motsunabe out in any player or character matchup.
KEN :4sonic: is Japan's #2 Sonic. Living in Komorikiri's shadow can be difficult, but KEN has proven he can keep up with the pressure by appearing in several recent top 8s. He has a positive record vs. Rain, something which even some overall-stronger players can't boast. His bracket runs are often cut short by Motsunabe or Shu, and he would probably like to avoid a rough character matchup against Choco's ZSS as well. All things considered, he is a consistent threat, and it will be very surprising if he doesn't make it far at Umebura 22.
Shu and Nyanko :4bayonetta2: are former top-level Sheik mains who have both been bewitched. Though they are certainly talented enough to succeed with a nerfed character, their attitude seems to be "Why bother?" Nyanko has already proven that his Bayo is lethal; he is notably 2-2 in recent sets vs. Abadango. Shu has only recently made the switch, so this will be his Bayo debut. It's also worth noting that both have dabbled with grapplers; Shu also uses Bowser from time-to-time and Nyanko had (and perhaps still has?) a competent DK.
Though the title of "best Peach" is contentious, Umeki and Kie :4peach: inarguably take up 2 of the top 3 spots. Umeki in particular is known internationally for travelling to Genesis and performing the (now-removed) Peach infinite with great precision. It's tough to be consistent as a Peach player, but thanks to these two, the last Umebura and Sumabato events had one each in top 8. Since Kie lives in Kansai, it's not all that often that you see these two in the same place. And considering Choco may also break out the princess, this event is looking Peachy-keen.
HIKARU :4dk::4bowser: is Japan's strongest representative of both DK and Bowser, though he mostly relies on the former. He's coming in off of 5th place finishes at Sumabato and Karisuma. This meant powering through Kie, Sigma, and ikep (the last of whom is an especially impressive win, given DK's susceptibility to ladder combos). His expansion hasn't shown any signs of slowing yet, but he must ensure that people don't grow wise to his tricks. Several players he's beaten will be looking for revenge at this event.
Songn :4gaw: might just be the best active G&W player full stop. He is startlingly consistent for someone who mains a mid-tier character; in fact, he finished top 8 twice in March alone. There he fought nail-biting sets with Choco and Abadango, though sadly, neither series ultimately went in his favor. His only true kryptonite seems to be the Rosalina matchup, so if he can avoid Atelier in bracket, it would be greatly to his advantage. He has deployed a pocket Sheik in the past, but now seems to rely on her infrequently.
Shuton :4olimar::4corrinf: is a resident of Kyushu, which means we don't get to see him on Japan's main island that often. In fact, this is his first appearance in East Japan! In his home region, he is the #1 tournament threat. In fact, he was previously undefeated at the Shulla-bra series, only recently having his streak broken by Bayonetta. According to his Olimar matchup chart, that matchup is "unwinnable." So perhaps it is good that he is also a competent Corrin user. She is his preferred character in online tournaments, and he is frequently ranked high on Japan's Wi-Fi leaderboard.
Paseriman :4pit::4sheik: is a talented and flexible player known mostly for his impressive Pit play. But really, he can play a lot of characters at a high level. Unlike Japan's other angelic archer, he also has a slick Sheik to handle Pit's annoying matchups. Then there's his Fox, Dark Pit, and Cloud as well. The latter two characters brought him to second place at Umebura 21.5, a doubles-only event, with Eim as his partner. He often finishes just outside of top 8 in singles, so with a little extra push, he might make it this time.
Brood :4duckhunt: could still be Japan's top Dog. A perennial fan favorite at Umebura events, he has several top 8 finishes and impressive player wins. Sadly, things haven't been going as well for him lately. He narrowly missed top 8 at Umebura 21, and then was eliminated fairly early at a Tokyo University tournament. Fortunately, I strongly doubt any of this will discourage a player as doggedly determined as Brood, who has stuck with his main through many rough losses before.
Ri-ma :4tlink: is Kyushu's premier Toon Link player. In the wake of breakout performances by Sigma and Hayato., he's been travelling all over Japan, seemingly in the hope of taking his own game to the same level. It seems to be working out for him, else he wouldn't be pulling out wins vs. players like Kie and 9B. Both he and his character are trending up, so don't be surprised if even more people discover how annoying TL can be.
taranito :4ness: is an accomplished Ness player with a strong peak performance level. His highest finish in the Umebura series to date is 3rd place, though that was many months ago. He's had some poor performances since then (no thanks to the Rosalina matchup), but he did recently eliminate Motsunabe at a Tokyo University tournament. So it's not exactly like you can claim that he's lost his touch. Also, don't let the name fool you; he did not direct Pulp Fiction and Kill Bill.
Eim :4sheik: is less known than Japan's other top Sheiks, so it would be unfair to leave him off of this list. He has always performed fairly well, but lately he's really stepped it up. He tore through Paseriman, Tsu-, Shu, and Umeki at Umebura 21, earning 5th place with a challenging bracket. Showing no signs of slowing down, he followed that up with a 2nd place finish in doubles at Umebura 21.5. At his current improvement rate, he poses a significant threat to the established order of top players.
Shimitake :4pikachu: is one of Japan's strongest Pikachu mains, and certainly the most mobile. He's willing to travel as far as Kyushu for local tournaments, and he flew to America Genesis 3. Though his past performances have been middling, he shocked everyone by placing 5th at Sumabato 8. There, he defeated Earth, HIKARU, and Kie on his path through winners bracket. Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to recreate that breakout success, even losing the ditto to a less-known player. Shimitake is as unpredictable as they come, but with the amount of work he puts in, things can only get better for him.
Shogun :4fox: can no longer play Solid Snake, but he does have a solid Fox. His win over Komorikiri puts him in a small group of players able to take out the multi-character prodigy. Additionally, he's beaten Tea and Nasubi, both of whom have done very well in his absence. He almost won his first tournament at Kyoto University, but Atelier came back on him after a bracket reset Grand Finals. A win at Umebura (or even just a top 8 finish) would cement his status as a top player in the minds of many.

Tune in to SHI-Gaming to catch the action live. Pools are scheduled to begin at 11:00 a.m. local time, with a break at 1:00 p.m. and bracket from 2:00 p.m.. This means that the event is scheduled to start approximately 3 hours from the time of this post.
 

TheGoodGuava

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e
Very few of the top characters have exceptional grab combos now. Throw combos are still important and even weaker ones can be good, but they have not been a necessity to be top tier for several months. Most of the good ones have been nerfed.

Cloud, Fox and Bayo get almost nothing from throws, though Bayo can get a shaky 50/50 with Uthrow into Witch Twist that is DI-able and usually doesn't work anyway. Sheik lost her exceptional 50/50 and whilst her throw combos are good at low percents, they're not exceptional except against fast fallers who can be regrabbed. I think Rosa gets Uthrow Utilt and Uthrow Uair? But nothing insanely dangerous. Sonic's Uthrow Uair is good but easy to DI, forcing Uthrow Fair which doesn't do much damage.

ZSS and Mario are the only ones left with exceptional grab combos I'd say. And even ZSS' have been toned down a lot with nerfs to Dthrow, Uair and Up B. I guess Diddy's are pretty powerful as well, but still nowhere near where they were.

S4 has come a long way from being "Dthrow Uair: The Game" like people thought at the start.
Well Fox does have some pretty damn good low % throw combos but they depend on DI. For exampe you can sometimes get downthrow -> run up upair -> upair -> dj upair -> airdodge read upair for ~60% or you could do dthrow -> fair -> upair (and if you land on a platform more upairs).
TL;DR upair

People also seem to be forgetting Pikachu, **** all of you who say a character with a kit as good as his is a mid tier. He gets a lot off of grabs
 

Y2Kay

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Here's a player write-up intended for inclusion in a front-page article on Umebura 22. I don't think I finished it in time, so I'm posting it here instead. Check it out:

Abadango :4mewtwo::4metaknight: needs no introduction, as he is coming in hot off his first supermajor win at Pound 2016. Though he's previously won several other tournaments (including an Umebura and the NicoNico Tokaigi 2016 invitational), none of those accomplishments quite compare to the devastation he unleashed just earlier this month. Even with such strong momentum, he faces a lot of tough competition, and it is quite common to see Japan's revolving ensemble of top players dethrone each other in quick succession. So Abadango must be in top form to continue his annihilation streak.
9B :4bayonetta: has been steadily improving with Bayonetta, reaching the point where he is clearly Japan's best representative of the character. He cleaned up the competition at Sumabato 9, hardly struggling at all along the way. He also put in work at Karisuma 6, making him the reigning champion of two regular tournament series. While he has a few recent losses to players beneath his level, he always manages to make it far regardless and the rematches are never pretty. He is perhaps the greatest threat to Abadango and the second favorite to win the entire event.
Rain :4sheik::4cloud2: should be familiar to anyone who follows the Umebura series. He's won half of their regular singles events for Smash Wii U, and to date is the only player to win consecutive events! Though he did have a rough few months in late 2015, he bounced back during the first quarter of this year. He managed to win both the Umebura Genesis Cup and Umebura 21 in succession, dropping no sets at either event. He also devastated the doubles bracket at Genesis 3 with his powerful Cloud secondary, sending FOW and MJG to losers early on and ultimately finishing in 4th place. His teams partner there was none other than:
DNG|Nietono :4diddy:, another long-standing veteran of the Japanese Smash scene. Nietono is no character loyalist; he's changed his main from Sheik to Fox to Brawler to Diddy over the course of the game. He was most recently sighted using Sheik again, but that was before the 1.1.5 patch. He seems to have returned to Diddy once more. He is certainly Japan's strongest representative of the character at this point. You can never quite be sure which characters he'll break out in tournament, or even if his odd character choices will end up working out in his favor.
Earth :4pit::4corrinf: is a name that most of you will recognize, whether from his top 16 placing at Genesis 3 or his frequent top 8 appearances in tournaments all over Japan. He is best known for his Pit, but has recently been investing a lot of time into Corrin as well. It seems like he prefers to use mostly one or the other at any given event, so there's no way to be sure what you'll see from him this time. Regardless, you can expect him to make it far in bracket, as his one unusually poor performance seems to have been a fluke.
Choco:4zss::4peach: has been receiving less attention now that Marss has arguably claimed the spot as the world's 2nd best ZSS player. But this is unfortunate, because he is still a tremendous threat to virtually any player. Besides Cloud and Diddy, the other characters he's struggled with have been heavily nerfed. His most recent appearance was at the eSR Cup, which he won after a drawn-out set with Songn in Grand Finals. Less well-known to foreigners is his lethal Peach secondary, which he has been using more often in difficult matchups. You may see him fall back on her if ZSS isn't working out.
Not only do Kamemushi and Daiki :4megaman::substitute: both main the same uncommon character, but they also frequently team together in doubles to devastating (and hilarious) effect. Their incredible synergy proves that their strategy is no gimmick; it even carried them to victory at Umebura's recent team tournament. Kamemushi also uses Cloud seriously in singles, which has proved useful for patching up bad matchups and secured him a positive record vs. Choco. He in particular has been terrorizing the Kanto scene for the past few months, with several impressive top 8 finishes.
Atelier :rosalina: has risen to stardom fairly quickly. In the past few months, he's had good showings at Sumabato events, finishing 4th at #7 and 3rd at #9. On top of this, he also placed 3rd at Karisuma 6. Though he struggles with unusual characters (Wario, D3, and especially Lucas), he's very well-versed in more common matchups. This shows through his wins against Aki (Sheik/Ryu) and ikep (Bayo). It worth noting that even Japan's best players catch a tough break sometimes, and it appears like Atelier is still learning quickly. He's got a decent chance of adding another top 8 to his expanding resume.
Motsunabe :4lucario::4ryu: is most known for winning Umebura 20 back in December. After dropping Winners Finals, he managed to defeat both Rain and KEN to claim his first offline victory. He also performed adirmably at the SHIG Tournament, finishing 3rd with wins over Kie, KEN, and Kamemushi. He seems to struggle against Choco's ZSS, and given his choice of main, would probably like to avoid Cloud players as well. But between Lucario's comeback factor and the added flexibility of a Ryu secondary, it's difficult to count Motsunabe out in any player or character matchup.
KEN :4sonic: is Japan's #2 Sonic. Living in Komorikiri's shadow can be difficult, but KEN has proven he can keep up with the pressure by appearing in several recent top 8s. He has a positive record vs. Rain, something which even some overall-stronger players can't boast. His bracket runs are often cut short by Motsunabe or Shu, and he would probably like to avoid a rough character matchup against Choco's ZSS as well. All things considered, he is a consistent threat, and it will be very surprising if he doesn't make it far at Umebura 22.
Shu and Nyanko :4bayonetta2: are former top-level Sheik mains who have both been bewitched. Though they are certainly talented enough to succeed with a nerfed character, their attitude seems to be "Why bother?" Nyanko has already proven that his Bayo is lethal; he is notably 2-2 in recent sets vs. Abadango. Shu has only recently made the switch, so this will be his Bayo debut. It's also worth noting that both have dabbled with grapplers; Shu also uses Bowser from time-to-time and Nyanko had (and perhaps still has?) a competent DK.
Though the title of "best Peach" is contentious, Umeki and Kie :4peach: inarguably take up 2 of the top 3 spots. Umeki in particular is known internationally for travelling to Genesis and performing the (now-removed) Peach infinite with great precision. It's tough to be consistent as a Peach player, but thanks to these two, the last Umebura and Sumabato events had one each in top 8. Since Kie lives in Kansai, it's not all that often that you see these two in the same place. And considering Choco may also break out the princess, this event is looking Peachy-keen.
HIKARU :4dk::4bowser: is Japan's strongest representative of both DK and Bowser, though he mostly relies on the former. He's coming in off of 5th place finishes at Sumabato and Karisuma. This meant powering through Kie, Sigma, and ikep (the last of whom is an especially impressive win, given DK's susceptibility to ladder combos). His expansion hasn't shown any signs of slowing yet, but he must ensure that people don't grow wise to his tricks. Several players he's beaten will be looking for revenge at this event.
Songn :4gaw: might just be the best active G&W player full stop. He is startlingly consistent for someone who mains a mid-tier character; in fact, he finished top 8 twice in March alone. There he fought nail-biting sets with Choco and Abadango, though sadly, neither series ultimately went in his favor. His only true kryptonite seems to be the Rosalina matchup, so if he can avoid Atelier in bracket, it would be greatly to his advantage. He has deployed a pocket Sheik in the past, but now seems to rely on her infrequently.
Shuton :4olimar::4corrinf: is a resident of Kyushu, which means we don't get to see him on Japan's main island that often. In fact, this is his first appearance in East Japan! In his home region, he is the #1 tournament threat. In fact, he was previously undefeated at the Shulla-bra series, only recently having his streak broken by Bayonetta. According to his Olimar matchup chart, that matchup is "unwinnable." So perhaps it is good that he is also a competent Corrin user. She is his preferred character in online tournaments, and he is frequently ranked high on Japan's Wi-Fi leaderboard.
Paseriman :4pit::4sheik: is a talented and flexible player known mostly for his impressive Pit play. But really, he can play a lot of characters at a high level. Unlike Japan's other angelic archer, he also has a slick Sheik to handle Pit's annoying matchups. Then there's his Fox, Dark Pit, and Cloud as well. The latter two characters brought him to second place at Umebura 21.5, a doubles-only event, with Eim as his partner. He often finishes just outside of top 8 in singles, so with a little extra push, he might make it this time.
Brood :4duckhunt: could still be Japan's top Dog. A perennial fan favorite at Umebura events, he has several top 8 finishes and impressive player wins. Sadly, things haven't been going as well for him lately. He narrowly missed top 8 at Umebura 21, and then was eliminated fairly early at a Tokyo University tournament. Fortunately, I strongly doubt any of this will discourage a player as doggedly determined as Brood, who has stuck with his main through many rough losses before.
Ri-ma :4tlink: is Kyushu's premier Toon Link player. In the wake of breakout performances by Sigma and Hayato., he's been travelling all over Japan, seemingly in the hope of taking his own game to the same level. It seems to be working out for him, else he wouldn't be pulling out wins vs. players like Kie and 9B. Both he and his character are trending up, so don't be surprised if even more people discover how annoying TL can be.
taranito :4ness: is an accomplished Ness player with a strong peak performance level. His highest finish in the Umebura series to date is 3rd place, though that was many months ago. He's had some poor performances since then (no thanks to the Rosalina matchup), but he did recently eliminate Motsunabe at a Tokyo University tournament. So it's not exactly like you can claim that he's lost his touch. Also, don't let the name fool you; he did not direct Pulp Fiction and Kill Bill.
Eim :4sheik: is less known than Japan's other top Sheiks, so it would be unfair to leave him off of this list. He has always performed fairly well, but lately he's really stepped it up. He tore through Paseriman, Tsu-, Shu, and Umeki at Umebura 21, earning 5th place with a challenging bracket. Showing no signs of slowing down, he followed that up with a 2nd place finish in doubles at Umebura 21.5. At his current improvement rate, he poses a significant threat to the established order of top players.
Shimitake :4pikachu: is one of Japan's strongest Pikachu mains, and certainly the most mobile. He's willing to travel as far as Kyushu for local tournaments, and he flew to America Genesis 3. Though his past performances have been middling, he shocked everyone by placing 5th at Sumabato 8. There, he defeated Earth, HIKARU, and Kie on his path through winners bracket. Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to recreate that breakout success, even losing the ditto to a less-known player. Shimitake is as unpredictable as they come, but with the amount of work he puts in, things can only get better for him.
Shogun :4fox: can no longer play Solid Snake, but he does have a solid Fox. His win over Komorikiri puts him in a small group of players able to take out the multi-character prodigy. Additionally, he's beaten Tea and Nasubi, both of whom have done very well in his absence. He almost won his first tournament at Kyoto University, but Atelier came back on him after a bracket reset Grand Finals. A win at Umebura (or even just a top 8 finish) would cement his status as a top player in the minds of many.

Tune in to SHI-Gaming to catch the action live. Pools are scheduled to begin at 11:00 a.m. local time, with a break at 1:00 p.m. and bracket from 2:00 p.m.. This means that the event is scheduled to start approximately 3 hours from the time of this post.
This tournament looks super stacked, I can't wait.

Megamang Megamang if you still want to see some current Motsunabe play now is the time!

:150:
 

TheGlove

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So, I'm assuming what you meant by that is :4pacman::4megaman::4duckhunt: all have killing issues (I could be wrong, correct me if so). In which case, I disagree with that :4megaman: has killing issues. From the air, he has both up air and back air. Up air can kill at random percents, espiciailly if you use it after up-b. Back air is fast and has high knockback, and this is even better from near the ledge. He also has down air for edgeguarding, although its startup makes it rarely hit.

His smashes all have great knockback, forward smash has great range though to being a projectile, up smash and down smash have crazy knockback and up smash is fast. Getting a read on the opponent can result in a decent kill that isn't at too high of a percentage.
While I would agree that Megaman does not have a terrible time killing it is still an issue for him. Up air should not be killing extremely early in most cases. The times when it does are usually because the target decided to jump out of it and are then caught by the strong windbox. Watch matches between Scatt and other players from his region and you will see that up air is rarely used as a kill move, it is great for damage however.

Forward smash has poor start up, poor endlag, and the projectile does not move particularly fast whcih limits its effectiveness at longer ranges. Uncharged it also has terrible base knockback, it rarely kills outside of offstage situations and ledge coverage at high percents. When charged the move does became very strong but it is not safe to throw out in most situations.

Downsmash comes out on frame 17 and only does its greatest damage, knockback when you hit with the actual flame part. It is also extremely laggy making it risky to throw out.

Upsmash is pretty good, but again its laggy so make a bad read or wiff and you will most likely get punished often hard.

Back air is great. Fast, has good range, and can be confirmed into in various ways only issue with it is that it sometimes fails to fully connect on standing opponents. This is Megaman's primary kill option along with his average back throw.

Mega has many kill options, but most are very unsafe to throw out and when you get to a high percent situation the fear of being hard punished for whiffing makes most of these very risky to use. Metal blade confirms, edgegurads and traps are what really prevent Megaman from having a bad time killing
 

|RK|

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His kill options incredibly slow. Like, bottom of the cast slow. If Lucario didn't have AS charge, and the best standing grab in the game, he would be absolute trash.

Aura is balanced around his poor frame data, if you want to even out his curve you would need to give back his Brawl disjoints, or give him frame data to justify his low mobility and damage.

Also calling him a dishonest character is a poor way of thinking of it. Do you think because other characters have better frame data/more options that they should have the privilege of advantage in neutral, and at the same time have comparable kill %s? Think of Lucario as the only viable "heavy" in this game, where your autopilot play will get you destroyed.
I agree with all of this, tbh. But I do think he'd be complained about if he were more common.
 

Jalil

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Watching TremendoDude - he plays Shulk like a beast and still consistently messes up the back air. That move is too damn slow.

EDIT - He won his pools against a Pikachu in the finals. Dude is inspiring.
Yeah shulks bair is slow but it isn't that hard to space. I think that's a personal problem for TremendoDude
 

Y2Kay

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By the 4BR definition being mid tier isn't crazy.

But yeah no one was saying that

:150:
 

ARGHETH

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I believe Shaya said he was at one point, pretty notable if you ask me
Except he was basing this on a bell curve of some sort, with most of the people being in the middle. In other words, his definition of "mid tier" is very different from that of other people, including you by your reaction to it.
 

TheGoodGuava

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Except he was basing this on a bell curve of some sort, with most of the people being in the middle. In other words, his definition of "mid tier" is very different from that of other people, including you by your reaction to it.
I wasn't actually there for it, just heard that he did, that's all. Thank you for the explanation
I have heard people call him a mid tier though and honestly it is kind of stupid when people say that, from what I see a lot there's a few playirs who place him at ~25th, way below what his results show and what his theory shows. Why? I have no idea
 

AnEventHorizon

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Yeah shulks bair is slow but it isn't that hard to space. I think that's a personal problem for TremendoDude
It's not the startup that's the problem its the angle of the move itself - it points upward like Bayo's guns even though you often want to space it as low and horizontal to the ground as possible.

It's not just a tremendo dude problem - pretty much every Shulk you look at will miss it at some point (Jerm, FuerzaDON, Artryuu, Trela and Ally both back when they played him and anytime they pull them out - I distinctly remember Ally failing to even get the hitbox out of 3 consecutive bairs a few months ago when he brought out Shulk against Nairo's ZSS)


In other news, fairly good news for Roy so far at EagleLAN 2016 - Static Manny/Heero switched to Roy from Sonic and won two games to bring a set back against Cayman's Bayonetta.

Ryo also chose to go Roy all 3 games against DJ Jack's Ryu (According to DadeX he does this because Roy's nair can beat focus attack while Corrin/Ike basically just have single hit moves).

While the first two games were close, Ryo's Roy lost 1-2 to Ryu.
 
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Jalil

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It's not the startup that's the problem its the angle of the move itself - it points upward like Bayo's guns even though you often want to space it as low and horizontal to the ground as possible.

It's not just a tremendo dude problem - pretty much every Shulk you look at will miss it at some point (Jerm, FuerzaDON, Artryuu, Trela and Ally both back when they played him and anytime they pull them out - I distinctly remember Ally failing to even get the hitbox out of 3 consecutive bairs a few months ago when he brought out Shulk against Nairo's ZSS)


In other news, fairly good news for Roy so far at EagleLAN 2016 - Static Manny/Heero switched to Roy from Sonic and won two games to bring a set back against Cayman's Bayonetta.

Ryo also chose to go Roy all 3 games against DJ Jack's Ryu (According to DadeX he does this because Roy's nair can beat focus attack while Corrin/Ike basically just have single hit moves).

While the first two games were close, Ryo's Roy lost 1-2 to Ryu.
Ally's shulk isn't that good and neither was trela's. In the match you are referring to, spacing wasn't the problem, ally's timing was. He landed before the hitbox even came out. I rarely see the ones you listed miss-space bair. In general you want to hit with the middle of bair. If you want to hit with the end even tho the middle is also safe, then spacing it may be a problem on really short characters.
 
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Emblem Lord

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It's not the startup that's the problem its the angle of the move itself - it points upward like Bayo's guns even though you often want to space it as low and horizontal to the ground as possible.

It's not just a tremendo dude problem - pretty much every Shulk you look at will miss it at some point (Jerm, FuerzaDON, Artryuu, Trela and Ally both back when they played him and anytime they pull them out - I distinctly remember Ally failing to even get the hitbox out of 3 consecutive bairs a few months ago when he brought out Shulk against Nairo's ZSS)


In other news, fairly good news for Roy so far at EagleLAN 2016 - Static Manny/Heero switched to Roy from Sonic and won two games to bring a set back against Cayman's Bayonetta.

Ryo also chose to go Roy all 3 games against DJ Jack's Ryu (According to DadeX he does this because Roy's nair can beat focus attack while Corrin/Ike basically just have single hit moves).

While the first two games were close, Ryo's Roy lost 1-2 to Ryu.
Man, people think beating Focus is really like...the THING that defines the match.

Oh well, free wins for Ryu mains I guess.
 

Das Koopa

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i'm focusing on The Summit so I'll have this stuff documented properly by monday-ish (tourney results)
 
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Megamang

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Focus attack will only be the thing that wins you the match, if the Ryu makes a poor decision.


Meanwhile, it can be the thing that loses you the match really, really quickly.

Honestly, the move is insane for how threatening it is, and its reward even on shield-hit is way good. Its understandable people want a safety net against it, but I do feel that Roy may not be the best choice just for that one reason.

Ryu struggles a little to get in, especially against disjoint. I'd imagine corrin can play effectively out of the range of focus attack almost the whole game. Other characters, it can be a real problem.
 

MistressRemilia

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EagleLan Top 16:
1st: Day (:4lucario:) Undefeated
2nd: Heero (:4sonic:,:4fox:,:4feroy:) Lost to Day twice
3rd: DJ Jack (:4ryu:) Lost to RiotLettuce & Heero
4th: Saj ( :4bayonetta:,:4peach:) Lost to Master Raven & DJ Jack
5th: 8BitMan ( :4rob:) Lost to Heero & DJ Jack
5th: MasterRaven (:4sheik:,:4mewtwo:) Lost to Day & Saj
7th: Headshot (:4samus:) Lost to Purple Guy (:4zelda:) & Saj
7th: Josh (:4diddy:) Lost to Day & Josh
9th: Ryo (:4myfriends:,:4corrinf:,:4feroy:) Lost to Master Raven & DJ Jack
9th: Son (:4lucas:) Lost to Cayman & Josh, most notably beat Xaltis in both winners & losers bracket.
9th: Cayman (:4bayonetta:,:rosalina:) Lost to Heero & Headshot
9th: RiotLettuce (:4bayonetta:,:4dk:) Lost to 8BitMan & Saj
13th: Tremendo Dude (:4shulk:) Lost to Ryo & Saj
13th: CrazieCuban (:4tlink:,:4jigglypuff:) Lost to Master Raven & Headshot
13th: AkashicSword (:4greninja:) Lost to Heero & Son
13th:Tachyon (:4pikachu:,:4duckhunt:) Lost to 8BitMan & DJ Jack

For those wondering, Xaltis got 17th.
Pretty good tournament for Lucario, it's pretty rare to see him actually shine in US.
Oddly enough, Ryo used Roy against DJ Jack, i have no idea why he did that.
Same thing for Heero vs Day in WFs & GFs, Heero choosed to go Fox & Roy on Day rather than Sonic, he got 3-0d both sets against Day, he should have switched imo, very good day for Lucario btw ( No pun intended )
 
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Asdioh

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Yeah, we were just talking about Lucario and there he is! And there's another Samus placing fairly high!

I can't fathom why Manny didn't go Sonic. The way he played Fox against Lucario was clearly not optimal, and I don't even have much Lucario experience/don't play Fox very often. He needed to go for more deadly options and reads, but he kept tacking on "safe" damage with tilts, weak aerials, and especially grabs. Lucario lived to 150%+ almost every game I believe. If Fox threw out more "random" upsmashes he might have done better. His Roy was pretty good too.

Force Palm ended almost every stock. You want to shield against Lucario because you don't want to run into a stray killing move or the ever-present threat of ASC->Upsmash, but if you shield just a little too long he can throw out a relatively low-risk Force Palm which MURDERS YOUR LIFE.
And then he tried to catch Lucario's recovery with an Upsmash, and almost died across the entire stage at like 80% from getting hit by Lucario's recovery move.
Gross gross... but still, great play from Day.
 

Aaron1997

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Depending on how Motsunabe does at Umebrua, this could yet be another great weekend for Lucario Mains
 
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Y2Kay

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Wait, Son double eliminated Xaltis?

that's . . . a big deal. I saw a lot of D throw up air kills and harassment with PK fire and Zair. I'm kinda suprised Rosa is having a hard time with it.

:150:



 
D

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EagleLan Top 16:
1st: Day (:4lucario:) Undefeated
2nd: Heero (:4sonic:,:4fox:,:4feroy:) Lost to Day twice
3rd: DJ Jack (:4ryu:) Lost to RiotLettuce & Heero
4th: Saj ( :4bayonetta:,:4peach:) Lost to Master Raven & DJ Jack
5th: 8BitMan ( :4rob:) Lost to Heero & DJ Jack
5th: MasterRaven (:4sheik:,:4mewtwo:) Lost to Day & Saj
7th: Headshot (:4samus:) Lost to Purple Guy (:4zelda:) & Saj
7th: Josh (:4diddy:) Lost to Day & Josh
9th: Ryo (:4myfriends:,:4corrinf:,:4feroy:) Lost to Master Raven & DJ Jack
9th: Son (:4lucas:) Lost to Cayman & Josh, most notably beat Xaltis in both winners & losers bracket.
9th: Cayman (:4bayonetta:,:rosalina:) Lost to Heero & Headshot
9th: RiotLettuce (:4bayonetta:,:4dk:) Lost to 8BitMan & Saj
13th: Tremendo Dude (:4shulk:) Lost to Ryo & Saj
13th: CrazieCuban (:4tlink:,:4jigglypuff:) Lost to Master Raven & Headshot
13th: AkashicSword (:4greninja:) Lost to Heero & Son
13th:Tachyon (:4pikachu:,:4duckhunt:) Lost to 8BitMan & DJ Jack

For those wondering, Xaltis got 17th.
Pretty good tournament for Lucario, it's pretty rare to see him actually shine in US.
Oddly enough, Ryo used Roy against DJ Jack, i have no idea why he did that.
Same thing for Heero vs Day in WFs & GFs, Heero choosed to go Fox & Roy on Day rather than Sonic, he got 3-0d both sets against Day, he should have switched imo, very good day for Lucario btw ( No pun intended )
A Lucas, Samus, Shulk and Greninja all in top 16? That's honestly really great! More use of Roy is always nice to see too, even if it was just secondaries/pockets. I haven't heard of Son before, him beating Xaltis makes me more curious as to how well Lucas actually does perform in the Rosalina matchup.
 
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