Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[LancerStaff]

-Up aerial is frame 7, deals 12% clean, lingers, has a huge hitbox, and auto-cancels in a short-hop and the very frame after the hitbox ends, while having only 15 frames of landing lag otherwise, and to top it all off, the move comboes into itself.
-Down aerial is frame 11, lingers, has a huge hitbox, and auto-cancels the first frame after the hitbox ends.
-Throw -> Limit Charge is perhaps the single best combo in the game: it's true and guaranteed against all characters regardless of percent, DI, and rage.
-Basically everything has disgusting range (look at his hitboxes with interpolation; they're terrifying).
-The whole LB mechanic is a chargeable KO punch with 4 variations and grants Cloud the ability to camp.
-Mobility stats: 10th fastest dash speed, good air speed and average acceleration, high jumps and a 4-frame jumpsquat. And boost that all with Limit.
-Two "weaknesses" that really aren't weaknesses: a lack of reliable throw follow-ups is wrong because of throw -> Limit Charge, and Cloud's recovery is only exploitable by 10 relevant characters.

Is he overrated? Not with the outcry surrounding . Do people know how to fight him? No, for the most part. But you have to give credit where credit is due: Cloud has an overtuned kit brimming with melted cheese that happens to be sitting on some really good mobility stats.

Cloud is #1 in my opinion, not Bayonetta (stop using unsafe moves on Bayo's shield; that way it becomes harder for her to land Witch Twist). Meanwhile, there's not much you can do against Cloud if he decides to be lame and camp for limit--if you don't have a really good projectile and/or get outrun by Cloud, have fun.

I get why people talk about Uair... Dair not so much. Yeah, if you launch him too far away for true follow-ups you need to respect the move, but I'd say it's easier to beat that move then a counter. His range isn't "disgusting," it's normal sword range. Like I said, most of it's tied to normal sword frame data. Cloud's main weakness, his recovery, isn't something only ten characters can exploit. If you think that you're pretty narrow-minded... You chuck him offstage funny he's dead, even moreso if you catch him without limit. Walk off and Bair him or whatever's optimal for your character.

Cloud's Uair now with interpolation.

99% of Cloud's kit. Like, I'd understand if people said things like that everything else didn't matter, but no. Instead we have people whining about how he got a (terrible) projectile when supposedly that's a broken combination and things like that.

Actually, I'm curious. Is interpolation relative to just the character, or the stage? Basically, if Cloud's falling would that shrink the hitbox?

 

[TTTTTsd]

You chuck him offstage funny he's dead, even moreso if you catch him without limit. Walk off and Bair him or whatever's optimal for your character.

Cloud only dies when he recovers low. DI up is hella free with Cloud and recovery mixups are ****ing easy in this game. Whatever Clouds you're fighting probably don't just recover high with Climhazzard's second part which beats most Bairs and nets him a free ledge or even a spike if someone is dumb enough to directly challenge it. Also no his frame data is not normal for a sword character. You know what most swordsmen with his range/mobility don't have? Moves that are active for days. What does Cloud have? Moves that are active for days. His only aerial that has under 10 frames of active hitboxes is literally Bair. What are we overrating? Every aerial becomes a crossup with Limit to boot because his air acceleration goes on crack. Also fulljump Double Nair is a wall that is very difficult to contest for a large chunk of characters, Mr. R uses it a lot and it's gross.

His recovery is literally just Marth's but purely vertical and without an autosnap. To most low level players this is super exploitable. To most people that play him at a high/top level like Tweek, in his own words, it's "not even that bad." It's not narrow-minded, it's literally in evidence via tournament sets and his placings. I suppose the disparity is clear, recovering in this game usually takes minimal effort and Cloud takes marginal effort so I imagine that is what threw people for a loop early on. Literally all any Cloud player has to do is recover high via Climhazzard. It doesn't help that semi-spikes are such a rarity and usually on rather unwieldly moves so Cloud's chances of actually being forced low are pretty rare or found within hard read scenarios where he gets swatted (which becomes considerably more difficult when Airdodge to Up+B is pretty free, or airdodging in general, kind of funny.)

I think you genuinely do not understand this character at all which is good enough grounds for me to suggest that you opt to not talk about him if you can't contribute anything that's new, intriguing, or backed by anything significant. Like, all of your points are "points" in the literal sense but where's the evidence that Cloud's kit is overrated? His results on an overall level (across all levels of play) are indisputable.

Like nothing personal but I really feel like you have no idea.

Also interpolation is the path from where the hitbox starts to where it ends. It is relative to the character. Cloud's hitboxes are absolutely stupid and you should look at them to really understand how gigantic they are.

 

[Blobface]

Cloud only dies when he recovers low. DI up is hella free with Cloud and recovery mixups are ****ing easy in this game. Whatever Clouds you're fighting probably don't just recover high with Climhazzard's second part which beats most Bairs and nets him a free ledge or even a spike if someone is dumb enough to directly challenge it.

I do agree that Cloud isn't free offstage, but I can't help but feel that good edgeguarders shouldn't be letting him get that close in the first place. If he's too far to hit the ledge with the second part of up B, his options are significantly more limited, and there's not much risk (relatively) to going after him offstage.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I do agree that Cloud isn't free offstage, but I can't help but feel that good edgeguarders shouldn't be letting him get that close in the first place. If he's too far to hit the ledge with the second part of up B, his options are significantly more limited, and there's not much risk (relatively) to going after him offstage.

There really isn't much risk but the big factor is that the blastzones are really small in this game (honestly) so he's generally going to be that close if he's not outright dead tbh.

 

[BunbUn129]

Cloud's main weakness, his recovery, isn't something only ten characters can exploit. If you think that you're pretty narrow-minded... You chuck him offstage funny he's dead, even moreso if you catch him without limit. Walk off and Bair him or whatever's optimal for your character.

The way you describe Cloud's recovery is the way one would describe Little Mac's recovery. Cloud has good air speed and average acceleration, his double jump goes pretty far, he has a wall jump, he can stall with side-B, and mix-up how he recovers with Up-b, and nair and fair are difficult to challenge. Not a good recovery, but I wouldn't be so quick to call it bad; it's pretty mediocre, to be fair. It's definitely not in the same league as . And that's not even counting Cloud's Limit recovery.

The problem isn't whether or not Cloud has a good or bad recovery; the problem is getting Cloud offstage in the first place. Unlike , Cloud doesn't suck everywhere that isn't the ground. Cloud demands a lot of respect both on the ground and in the air; he has the essentials in his neutral game (range, frame data, active hitboxes, mobility, and having a "terrible" projectile is meaningless when he can just camp for Limit). For most characters, their main concern is actually beating Cloud in neutral; of course, edge-guarding Cloud is out of the question if they can't do that. And unlike Mac, Cloud has an option to get out of disadvantage (dair).

Off the top of my head, these are relevant characters who can both contend with Cloud in neutral and truly threaten his recovery: and I'll sayif he keeps becoming more relevant. Most other characters lose in neutral and/or lack the proper tools to exploit Cloud's vulnerability offstage. goes toe to toe in neutral, but doesn't have good offstage options. Luma gets tossed around with Cloud's big sword, though Rosa can challenge his recovery. hate disjoints and get outrun by Cloud. Even a lot of top-tiers have trouble dealing with Cloud's weakness.

And then, after all this, even if you gimp Cloud at 0%, he still has arguably the best comeback ability in the game, so you can never truly count him out.

Cloud's recovery weakness has been overstated, and I don't think it's enough to prevent him from being #1. On the other hand, 's intended weakness, below average frame data on the ground, can actually be exploited. The reason people complain more about Bayo than Cloud is because a lot of them don't know how to play neutral: they just rush in and get punished by a frame 4 combo-starter OoS and the best counter in the game. Meanwhile, Cloud has both strong offensive and defensive options in neutral: you need to rush in to prevent him from camping Limit, but then he can just beat you with his massive hitboxes.

Bayo really can't do anything if you play defensively, while you can't lame Cloud out because he's probably the best at laming everyone else out. I find Limit camping way more annoying than Needle-camping, but that's maybe because I'm more used to Sheik.

TL;DR Cloud's recovery issue isn't a big deal unless he's being stupid.

 

[Nobie]

When Mew2King was discussing Cloud's weakness to edgeguarding, he made two main points. 1) People aren't challenging Cloud's recovery enough 2) Mew2King provided a general strategy for specifically challenging Cloud when he's recovering above stage.

I don't know how we can act like Cloud's weakness isn't real at the same time that one of his most prominent mains is giving the world CONCRETE ADVICE on how to beat him off-stage.

 

[BunbUn129]

When Mew2King was discussing Cloud's weakness to edgeguarding, he made two main points. 1) People aren't challenging Cloud's recovery enough 2) Mew2King provided a general strategy for specifically challenging Cloud when he's recovering above stage.

I don't know how we can act like Cloud's weakness isn't real at the same time that one of his most prominent mains is giving the world CONCRETE ADVICE on how to beat him off-stage.

Mew2King overrates his characters' weaknesses a lot.

Yes, it's a weakness and you should challenge it; but the point is, it's nowhere near as bad as many are making it out to be. And it's certainly way better than we thought it was at first; some people were saying Little Mac had a better recovery and were serious about it. Lancerstaff implied edge-guarding Cloud was free (the whole reason I wrote my previous post in the first place).

And you have to get through everything else in Cloud's kit.

 

[bc1910]

The way you describe Cloud's recovery is the way one would describe Little Mac's recovery. Cloud has good air speed and average acceleration, his double jump goes pretty far, he has a wall jump, he can stall with side-B, and mix-up how he recovers with Up-b, and nair and fair are difficult to challenge. Not a good recovery, but I wouldn't be so quick to call it bad; it's pretty mediocre, to be fair. It's definitely not in the same league as . And that's not even counting Cloud's Limit recovery.

The problem isn't whether or not Cloud has a good or bad recovery; the problem is getting Cloud offstage in the first place. Unlike , Cloud doesn't suck everywhere that isn't the ground. Cloud demands a lot of respect both on the ground and in the air; he has the essentials in his neutral game (range, frame data, active hitboxes, mobility, and having a "terrible" projectile is meaningless when he can just camp for Limit). For most characters, their main concern is actually beating Cloud in neutral; of course, edge-guarding Cloud is out of the question if they can't do that. And unlike Mac, Cloud has an option to get out of disadvantage (dair).

Off the top of my head, these are relevant characters who can both contend with Cloud in neutral and truly threaten his recovery: and I'll sayif he keeps becoming more relevant. Most other characters lose in neutral and/or lack the proper tools to exploit Cloud's vulnerability offstage. goes toe to toe in neutral, but doesn't have good offstage options. Luma gets tossed around with Cloud's big sword, though Rosa can challenge his recovery. hate disjoints and get outrun by Cloud. Even a lot of top-tiers have trouble dealing with Cloud's weakness.

And then, after all this, even if you gimp Cloud at 0%, he still has arguably the best comeback ability in the game, so you can never truly count him out.

Cloud's recovery weakness has been overstated, and I don't think it's enough to prevent him from being #1. On the other hand, 's intended weakness, below average frame data on the ground, can actually be exploited. The reason people complain more about Bayo than Cloud is because a lot of them don't know how to play neutral: they just rush in and get punished by a frame 4 combo-starter OoS and the best counter in the game. Meanwhile, Cloud has both strong offensive and defensive options in neutral: you need to rush in to prevent him from camping Limit, but then he can just beat you with his massive hitboxes.

Bayo really can't do anything if you play defensively, while you can't lame Cloud out because he's probably the best at laming everyone else out. I find Limit camping way more annoying than Needle-camping, but that's maybe because I'm more used to Sheik.

TL;DR Cloud's recovery issue isn't a big deal unless he's being stupid.

You missed a couple. Greninja can block Cloud's recovery completely with Hydro Pump and contends in neutral (I would pick Greninja over Mewtwo against Cloud). Villager probably has a harder time in neutral but shouldn't have many issues Dair-ing Cloud every time he tries to Up B to the ledge.

Most characters with a good Dair can at least make Cloud think about his timing with Up B to the ledge.

 

[Sonicninja115]

You can always check the Mewtwo Boards. We got some real lab monsters down there.

You should probably ask Sonicninja115 , he has labbed a lot of Nair stuff already.

It's true, but slightly impractical in general. That set-up is probably the most legit.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Cloud's not free offstage, but his recovery is more exploitable than those of most high tiers. Cloud really has to take care of his second jump or else he's toast offstage, and Climhazzard high is a good option but can be stopped with the right tools. If Cloud is smart, he won't die early in most MUs, but it's not as if he has a largely unchallengeable recovery like Sheik's.

 

[TTTTTsd]

When Mew2King was discussing Cloud's weakness to edgeguarding, he made two main points. 1) People aren't challenging Cloud's recovery enough 2) Mew2King provided a general strategy for specifically challenging Cloud when he's recovering above stage.

I don't know how we can act like Cloud's weakness isn't real at the same time that one of his most prominent mains is giving the world CONCRETE ADVICE on how to beat him off-stage.

I don't mean to speak against him, he's not wrong. HOWEVER overinflating a weakness is also a problem and I think saying 50% of the time even with upwards DI is death offstage with Cloud is a bit of an exaggeration.

I think airdodges are absurd and what let Cloud survive offstage as much as he does TBH. If he was forced to use his aerials he'd be gimp food for sure. But when you have a lot of I-frames with variable timing, low-ish recovery and it goes straight into CLimhazzard with the IASA on Airdodge it becomes a very variable mixup that's really strong.

Again I don't disagree with his advice but I just think the stats are inflated and he does have a tendency to overrate/underrate things, but it just shows his love for data and passion so I usually don't mind in regards to Cloud

My theory is not that his weakness is nonexistent. It's that his weakness is not literally "I die whenever I get thrown off", and to imply so (like the post I quoted) is absolutely wrong.

 

[BunbUn129]

Cloud's recovery is like 's: it's bad on paper, but it has enough mix-up potential to allow him to recover more often than not. Heck, not even gets gimped for free, even though people love to rave about how terrible his recovery is. Melee Falcon lives in a game where people drop like stones, ledges don't have magnets, air dodges kill you, recoveries suck, and edge-hogging exists, and even he gets back to the stage more often than not (unless S2J is playing him). If Melee Falcon can get back with a meh success rate, what is 's recovery? Certainly not "free" or "highly gimpable" when you have safe air dodges, slow falling speeds, and tractor beams on the ledge.

Sure, you can adapt and create counter-play. But Cloud can do that as well by mixing up his recovery.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Eh?

Yes DPit's electroshock arm can kill early at the edge too. Anywhere else limit cross slash can be survived up to 100% with correct DI and again, it requires a read to land one. Fail to connect it and your lack of recovery might have cost a stock if sent off stage. Cloud can't do much against shields.

It doesn't need a hard read though because:

1. it's incredibly safe and, like I said earlier, is safe on shield and fast enough that it's hard to punish if it misses.
2. it has a giant hitbox that covers the entire front of Cloud aside from a tiny little space literally right in front of his face.
3. if shielded, it does a ton of shield damage, rewarding Cloud if he decides to go full aggro at that point which he can easily do thanks to his mobility.
4.it can be used on stage, in the air, and offstage with the same amount of risk, which is hardly any.

As for shields, as a number of people have repeated numerous times, shield grab into limit charge is one of the most reliable combos in the game. Cloud isn't afraid of shields. His range, lack of ending/landing lag for most of his moves, and mobility mean that they aren't a huge issue for him. Plus, Cloud doesn't have to approach in most cases because, once again, he can just camp and charge limit if he can't find a quick way in.

 

[BunbUn129]

Cloud also deals at least 6% with each throw, and at least 9% with a pummel thrown in. Even without direct follow-ups, 6% is not a completely negligible amount of damage, especially since it's freshening his other moves.

Marth has limited grab follow-ups and all of his throws deal 4%-5% damage, with a fast pummel partially making up.

 

[Deleted member]

Cloud also deals at least 6% with each throw, and at least 9% with a pummel thrown in. Even without direct follow-ups, 6% is not a completely negligible amount of damage, especially since it's freshening his other moves.

Wait, do pummels unstale moves like they did in Brawl? I was always wondering about that.

 

[BunbUn129]

Wait, do pummels unstale moves like they did in Brawl? I was always wondering about that.

I'm pretty sure they do (correct me if I'm wrong). It was more important in Brawl due to chain grabbing.

@KuroganeHammer do pummels count in the stale que like they did in Brawl?

 

[Planty]

When people say that throw -> Limit Charge is an amazing throw combo, are they trolling? I really can't tell. In fact, I'm pretty sure that some people here say it as a joke while others truly believe it.

 

[Lavani]

Wait, do pummels unstale moves like they did in Brawl? I was always wondering about that.

Yes, but you need to wait for the pummel to actually complete before it'll add to the stale move queue. Most(all?) characters pummeling as fast as they can won't end up unstaling anything at all.

 

[BunbUn129]

When people say that throw -> Limit Charge is an amazing throw combo, are they trolling? I really can't tell. In fact, I'm pretty sure that some people here say it as a joke while others truly believe it.

It's a joke but it's true. Cloud gets much more off of positional advantage than many other characters who lack reliable combo throws.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, but you need to wait for the pummel to actually complete before it'll add to the stale move queue. Most(all?) characters pummeling as fast as they can won't end up unstaling anything at all.

Thanks for the clarification. S'pretty nifty.

 

[Dusk Pit]

Troll detected?

You gotta be kidding me. Seriously, are you dumb or is everyone with different opinions trolls? PM if you have something else as constructive as that one.

 

[BunbUn129]

Yes, but you need to wait for the pummel to actually complete before it'll add to the stale move queue. Most(all?) characters pummeling as fast as they can won't end up unstaling anything at all.

That makes sense, otherwise faster, lower-damage pummels would be objectively better than slower, more damaging ones. Now I think I can appreciate Meta Knight's slow-ass pummel.

 

[bc1910]

Yes, but you need to wait for the pummel to actually complete before it'll add to the stale move queue. Most(all?) characters pummeling as fast as they can won't end up unstaling anything at all.

What exactly do you mean by this? Am I right in thinking this means the whole animation needs to complete, and you can't interrupt the pummel during its IASA?

 

[HeavyLobster]

Really Cloud just being able to throw you away so he can charge limit more is valuable in and of itself. His grab game isn't the best but he gets enough out of it for it to not be a huge issue. I mean his weaknesses are bigger and more meaningful than any that pre-1.1.5 Sheik had, but they're generally areas where he's just ok instead of amazing.

 

[Lavani]

What exactly do you mean by this? Am I right in thinking this means the whole animation needs to complete, and you can't interrupt the pummel during its IASA?

That's my understanding of it. For Rosalina you need to wait for her wand to stop glowing (on 3DS; unsure if this visual cue is on Wii U but looking at the data I assume it is) for her pummel to add to the queue, and that's set to terminate when the animation ends. Haven't looked into the specifics on any other characters.

 

[Ninety]

I mean, "Limit doesn't even kill early" is objectively wrong.

 

[Fatmanonice]

When people say that throw -> Limit Charge is an amazing throw combo, are they trolling? I really can't tell. In fact, I'm pretty sure that some people here say it as a joke while others truly believe it.

It's only a little bit of a hyperbole because all Cloud has to do is knock away someone to just go back to charging limit. If Cloud decides to chase after an opponent in the disadvantage or decides to just charge limit, they're both still good options because Limit Break gives him even more options to use. The only thing that's even comparable is how Wii Fit can typically get a free deep breathing or a fully charged sun salutation off a throw at higher percentages but deep breathing quickly wears off and sun salutation is moderate risk against most of the cast while Cloud's Limit Break is all around low risk aside from Finishing Touch.

Add in: Limit Break isn't the same as other charge and store attacks because it technically gives him four new options once it's fully charged. these characters just gain one attack and, for most of them, they're of moderate risk aside from Mario's FLUDD (which does no damage anyways) and Sheik's needles (still one of the safest projectiles in the game).

 

[BunbUn129]

I mean, "Limit doesn't even kill early" is objectively wrong.

That's the truest sentence I've read on this entire thread.

 

[Dusk Pit]

I mean, "Limit doesn't even kill early" is objectively wrong.

You left a pretty relevant word out of that sentence if you meant to quote my post, don't you think?
So yeah, i was watching Nairo's DPit vs Tweek's Cloud and Nairo survived max rage limit cs at 80% and no, it was not stale (tho it was on the other side of a stage). That's about when smashes and some other specials start to kill so I don't find limit moves too overwhelming especially since you don't have acces to limit at all times and there is no reliable confirm into it. I just want to remind again that true shoryuken and bayonetta's death ladders exist.

 

[deepseadiva]

I'd like a list of these 80% KO moves. There's some strong stuff sprinkled around, but most of it is attached to weaker "packages", Luigi, Jigglypuff, Little Mac, etc.

Limit is a dumb mechanic attached to a dumb character.

 

[Dre89]

It's only a little bit of a hyperbole because all Cloud has to do is knock away someone to just go back to charging limit. If Cloud decides to chase after an opponent in the disadvantage or decides to just charge limit, they're both still good options because Limit Break gives him even more options to use. The only thing that's even comparable is how Wii Fit can typically get a free deep breathing or a fully charged sun salutation off a throw at higher percentages but deep breathing quickly wears off and sun salutation is moderate risk against most of the cast while Cloud's Limit Break is all around low risk aside from Finishing Touch.

Add in: Limit Break isn't the same as other charge and store attacks because it technically gives him four new options once it's fully charged. these characters just gain one attack and, for most of them, they're of moderate risk aside from Mario's FLUDD (which does no damage anyways) and Sheik's needles (still one of the safest projectiles in the game).

The charging thing is just another way that Cloud ignores balance constraints every other character is bound by.

Every other character who has to charge something manually has at least some form of commitment to it. The charge only enhances one move too. Cloud can charge his manually with less commitment than other characters. Not only does he get a stat boost on top of already overturned stats, but he then gets four enhanced specials to choose.

Little Mac is the only character who charges passively. But wait, Cloud does that too on top of getting to charge it manually with zero commitment.

 

[BunbUn129]

You left a pretty relevant word out of that sentence if you meant to quote my post, don't you think?
So yeah, i was watching Nairo's DPit vs Tweek's Cloud and Nairo survived max rage limit cs at 80% and no, it was not stale (tho it was on the other side of a stage). That's about when smashes and some other specials start to kill so I don't find limit moves too overwhelming especially since you don't have acces to limit at all times and there is no reliable confirm into it. I just want to remind again that true shoryuken and bayonetta's death ladders exist.

Well, no wonder it won't kill. You do know that a move will KO later than usual if you do it on the other side of the stage? Who'da thunk it?


Shoryuken is a highly unsafe move. What, are you running into Ryu's up tilt or raw Shoryuken? Of course, you can't use Shoryuken as a kill move offstage without dying, unlike CS, and CS deals the same knockback on the ground and in the air. Limit Cross Slash has 21 frames of ending lag. Your average smash attack has 30-40 frames of ending lag. Considering how big the hitbox is and how much shield stun it deals, 21 frames is a tight window for punishment. To put things into perspective, MK's dash attack has 20 frames of ending lag, and people struggle to punish that. And about Cloud not always having access to Limit CS, it barely matters because charging Limit requires zero commitment.

Limit Cross Slash is objectively better than Shoryuken: it has all the same benefits plus safety, longer range, and edge-guarding ability, and, yes, you can combo into it off of down aerial--and you don't really need a set-up considering it's invincible frame 6 and active frame 11, along with its aforementioned safety. Shoryuken works better for recovery, and that's all.

I'm not gonna get started on the comparison to Bayo's ladders because there's no point drawing a comparison between one overtuned move and an overtuned play style, and because there's enough circlejerking going on about Bayonetta.

 

[Tri Knight]

Isn't that true about Zelda as well? Actually what is it with Zelda characters being either amazing or terrible?

Well good news is, Link has been seeing pretty decent results lately - much bether than he used to. I wouldn't say he's terrible though. He's got enough tools to properly put him in mid-tier. As long as he keeps seeing good results in the future at least.

Tink actaully surprised me. I knew he was good but his results exceeds my expectations.

 

[deepseadiva]

Little Mac is the only character who charges passively. But wait, Cloud does that too on top of getting to charge it manually with zero commitment.

One of the only obvious design decisions I have issues with: Limit charging when you're damaged. I understand Mac getting KO Meter, because he's made of glass, but Cloud is not flimsy by any means.

It is what it is. Definitely a kid friendly design that we'll suffer through/abuse in the upper competitive echelons.

 

[Y2Kay]

there's nothing worse than racking up massive damage with this sweet (greninja combo) and then Cloud gets full limit. And then I have to chill out or I'll eat a frame 6 invincible nuke to the face.

 

[Nobie]

One of the only obvious design decisions I have issues with: Limit charging when you're damaged. I understand Mac getting KO Meter, because he's made of glass, but Cloud is not flimsy by any means.

It is what it is. Definitely a kid friendly design that we'll suffer through/abuse in the upper competitive echelons.

Limit gets charged from getting hit probably because that's how it works in FFVII.

The weird one is Little Mac, who's supposed to gain meter in his games from hitting and not getting hit.

 

[bc1910]

Gonna leave this here as well, as a brief analysis of Day 1 Pound. Not intending to clutter the thread but I think a brief sum-up will be helpful.

EDIT: Just gonna post a link to my other post. http://smashboards.com/threads/pound-2016-competitive-impressions.434326/page-4#post-21061737

 

[Djent]

UPDATED: In case you need something else to watch during/after Pound, Karisuma 6 will be streamed on SHI-Gaming. It starts at 11:00 a.m. Japan time, so the stream should be up any time now.

Spoiler: Good People

9B, ikep
Isotaku
Ruri
SH
Kei
DoubleA
Earth
Shimitake
Sigma
Nojinko
Kenkenpa
Taiheita
Kie
HIKARU
DIO
Fuwa

 

[Peppermint1201]

According to ESAM's Twitter iStudying and K9 are currently game 3.

EDIT: According to VoiD's twitter K9 defeated iStudying (2-1). The matchup still seems pretty abysmal post-patch, maybe he will consider a secondary....

Also worth noting is that Mr. II, a Japanese Robin player with no accolades I can think of off the top of my head is doing very well, already boasting a win over the similarly-named Mr. E.

 

[TDK]

And Pink Fresh beats Mr. R in top 96.