3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[Ven158]

Made an account just to ask one question.
No changes to Captain MFin Falcon?

 

[Shaya]

Made an account just to ask one question.
No changes to Captain MFin Falcon?

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore2/index.php?char=captain&mode=diff104

before you frikken ask because you don't understand it, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THOSE CHANGES MEAN, THEY'RE FOR THINGS THAT DONT HAVE DAMAGING HITBOXES.

 

[Ven158]

-snip-

before you frikken ask because you don't understand it, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THOSE CHANGES MEAN, THEY'RE FOR THINGS THAT DONT HAVE DAMAGING HITBOXES.

THANK YOU FOR THE EXPLANATION!

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I would like to request someone test Sm4sh's rage mechanic.

I am unable to provide proof myself; however, I feel its effect may have been drastically reduced, possibly even removed entirely, in the last patch.

 

[X1Type1]

I caught something with Mega Man. @ SamuraiPanda I think this is OP-worthy. Pardon me if this was brought into light earlier:

in the past, if you were to burn your special jump and use neutral-air (or some other aerial/special attack in the air to make your landing safer) to cancel the recovery frames attached to your special jump, those frames were "stored;" the next time you went airborne and landed, you were burdened by your Up B's recovery frames from earlier -even if you didn't use Up B again - unless you landed with nair every single time.

However, in 1.0.4 this is no longer the case. If you land with an aerial or other special move just once after your special jump, those recovery frames from Up B will no longer burden you next time you jump and land.

I was doing that already in 1.0.3

 

[KuroganeHammer]

So RCO lag removed?

 

[X1Type1]

Greninja has been nerfed significantly, seems to have been hit the hardest of any character so far. Tested these changes using my updated game and my friend's version 1.0.3 side by side.

- Up Smash has significantly more ending lag, he puts the swords away now, Up Smash -> Uair no longer works.
- Uair spiking is no longer possible, and people fall out of Uair before the final hit a LOT now.
- Uair deals less knockback.
- Shuriken has more ending lag at any level of charge.
- Hydro Pump basically doesn't push airborne foes at all now.
- Shadow Sneak can no longer be used to cancel landing lag, more of a bug fix that happens to be a nerf.

Also something has definitely changed about running Up Smash with every character, can't put my finger on it but it's way harder to do now if you have Tap Jump off.

Nobody seems to notice another crucial nerf to Greninja. His SH gas been heightened. His SH is higher than before making nair 》 Dtilt/Dash Grab/whatever much easier to react to.

 

[X1Type1]

Wow Sheik feels GUTTED. Her kill power is ridiculously low now. Bouncing fish doesn't even kill at 140%.

I like that though Bfish was becoming the new Nado. People would just throw out Bfish since the reward was always high and the risk generally low.

 

[ecaflip]

Speaking of nados
How are all the MK players adjusting to fair not autoconfirming anymore? I kinda like it, it feels much more smooth than before.

 

[B!squick]

Don't know if it's been noted here yet, but Bowser's SideB (Flying Slam) is straight up bugged. Sometimes both players die at the same time during a Bowsercide (resulting in Sudden Death on last stock) and sometimes Bowser dies first. What's really strange is that I'm told it's stage dependent.

And Bowser's FSmash does 1% more damage.

 

[UltiMario]

How do we not have the KBG increase on Mac's KO Punch noted in the changelist.

It's currently 25... but I don't know what it was pre-patch. The increase results in a 6-8% earlier kill depending on weight.

At least for now we should have "KBG increased to 25" in the changelist, though, even if we don't know the 1.0.3 value.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I believe everyone's favorite Thinkaman disproved that a while back.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

BOWSER SIDE SPECIAL IS IN THE OP

BOWSER FSMASH IS UNCHANGED

MAC KO PUNCH IS UNCHANGED

 

[Robfire]

alright guys, i hope people see this because i'd really like this explained and could be a new discovery of some sort. or im just messing something up really badly


my only way of testing vectoring & DI on the 3ds version is the f zero stage, which is what i saw as proof, and there's no denying that. i tested that myself and that is without a doubt DI.

HOWEVER, i booted up training on the wii u version. two controllers, final destination. link's up tilt KOs mario at 134% without input and no lower, but when i hold down, i go straight up, but significantly less knockback. i made sure i didn't crouch before the attack, and it is very noticeable vectoring.

here's where it gets weird, though--when i change it to a percent down (133%) and hold up, it doesn't kill me. there is no difference in the knockback. how could i vector it downard but not upward? try this for yourself if you don't believe me, i really hope i'm not ****ing anything up because this is really weird and hard for me to believe too.

but, okay, this is very, very weird. i made a custom stage in stage builder, completely flat, the exact same height and blast zones as FD. i put lava/danger zones on the middle of the stage (i chose thin lava, not sure if it makes a difference for knockback). it KOs mario without input at 160% and no less. okay, so, i tried vectoring it... and it just straight up did NOT work. not downards, upwards or side/side. and then... yup, you guessed it, i could DI it!!! holding left or right would straight up change my trajectory and allow me to survive it past 160%, whereas vectoring did absolutely nothing.

maybe vectoring is disabled for stage hazards?? that's the most likely conclusion, but why could i DI that? maybe there's now some kind of weak DI, but vectoring is still in, but you can't vector in the opposite direction of moves? in fact, when i hit mario with link's uptilt, i could survive by holding the opposite direction he hit me with (as link's up tilt doesn't launch directly up, it has a bit of a curve towards link). all of this is really weird to me.

 

[X1Type1]

META KNIGHT FTILT 1 INTO DASH GRAB CONFIRMED LEGIT

 

[Kon]

I have a question as I don't know how it was in v1.0.3: Did Donkey Kong's backthrow always kill? Because now you can kill people with the back throw at around 150%(Mario as an example) near the edge of the stage or around 190%(Mario) in the middle of the stage.

As said: I don't know if this was already like this in the past, especially as I haven't played much as DK before.

 

[Agosta44]

I have a question as I don't know how it was in v1.0.3: Did Donkey Kong's backthrow always kill? Because now you can kill people with the back throw at around 150%(Mario as an example) near the edge of the stage or around 190%(Mario) in the middle of the stage.

As said: I don't know if this was already like this in the past, especially as I haven't played much as DK before.

Yes.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

@ Supermodel From Paris can you verify these ZSS changes for me, and is that all of them? She's basically the last character for me to finish.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

@ Supermodel From Paris can you verify these ZSS changes for me, and is that all of them? She's basically the last character for me to finish.

I can't find her custom moves in the files to verify most of them. I messed around with them extensively pre-patch and I'm pretty confident in the change.

I can verify this:

- Paralyzer recovery increased on both charged and uncharged versions
- Airdodge increased to 22f from 15f
- Up smash is now 10? from 8? frames? It's hard to tell. Is 0 frame 1 here? Either way, it's slower by 2 frames. Someone said it's 9->11, but I can't figure out how that could be the case. ZSS' jab is definitely 2 frames (there are only 2 frames of animation in-game, i recorded it and watched it back at 60FPS frame by frame) and it says 2 frames here.
- Can no longer footstool infinite Robin (this is more of a change to Robin btw)
- Might be worth noting that the changes to DI and Vectoring make ZSS' moves considerably harder to escape once they connect; this was a global change but affected ZSS in ways significant enough that I thought they were character-specific buffs at first.
- Spreading Shot now gives Zero Suit more time to follow up if it connects and can be cancelled early. This is easily verified because of how UNBELIEVABLE it was that you couldn't follow up after it landed in 1.0.3, I stared at the screen in awe of how terrible it was.

Can someone explain what Synchronous Timer means?

 

[Blue Banana]

OLIMAR
- Olimar Red Pikmin F-smash knockback increased from 36kb to 44kb

I tested the Max Launcher Speed in 1.0.3 for red Fsmash and got 170. Then I updated to 1.0.4, and the Launcher Speed for the red Fsmash is 169. The 1.0.3 Launcher Speed may be slightly higher because I may have slightly charged the Fsmash, but otherwise I'm assuming the knockback for a red Fsmash is the same as before.

 

[Sabaca]

MetaKnight:
BUGFIX GlideToss
Greninja:
The 14% Hitbox of Upsmash is now 19%.

 

[Foreal]

Links fastfall double bounce off shields is no more, darn

 

[Zyrac]

Villager's FAir and BAir arent buffed in damage.

The furthest hit is still 2.5% (FAir) and 3% (BAir). I posted the results (text only, but another member confirmed my results a few pages later) in an earlier post.

Whether or not they changed how far along the pellet has to fly to be considered "Mid" range for the 4%/5% on each is another story, which COULD be why it was initially thought to be a buff to long range pellets.

Edit: Reposting this since it hasn't been fixed in the front page yet ;A;

The confusion was actually because the Villager tech data thread only had two damage values for each when there are actually three. I don't think the slingshot has changed at all.

@ SamuraiPanda (or whoever it was), thanks for removing that from the OP, but you shouldn't have also removed the Villager up smash buff. That one is definitely true (KOs at 128% instead of 140% according to Thinkaman, and I recall similar results from my own testing).

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I removed Villager's usmash "buff" because it wasn't true.

Villager's Fireworks files were untouched, then I tested it in training mode and decided that it's probably a change to DI/Vectoring than a Villager change.

Also the other things that were in the OP about villager weren't true either. Villager has been untouched except for maybe the Tree projectile being no longer energy, but tree's files were unchanged as well so....

It's probably a falco change

 

[Zyrac]

I don't understand. I thought I saw a difference in training and Thinkaman seemed to back me up on that. Are you saying you saw no difference at all or that you think the AI was vectoring it? (Do they do that?) Also, are you sure you were looking at the right code? There was something about the attack being an article...

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yes, we can check articles now, I checked Villager's articles and they were unchanged. I tested kill percent on Bowser and 1.0.4 Bowser dies at like, the same percent that 1.0.3 Bowser had the red lightning to indicate that he was meant to die.

 

[Zyrac]

So... you think it's vectoring? But shouldn't that mean up and down tilt should kill sooner as well? I don't think they do.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Looks like they nerfed wall cling stalling on walled omega stages? Or maybe it's Wii U only, I don't have my 3DS on me to test right now.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

So... you think it's vectoring? But shouldn't that mean up and down tilt should kill sooner as well? I don't think they do.

iDunno

All I know

Is that it kills at 144% in 1.0.3

and 143% in 1.0.4

I don't know

why it's different by 1%

 

[Zyrac]

On Bowser? That's like... almost the same percent it killed Mario in 1.0.3. I'm sorry, dude, but that can't be right. Wish I could test it more myself now, but since I have the download version of the game I don't think I can revert.

 

[Meloetta Star]

The confusion was actually because the Villager tech data thread only had two damage values for each when there are actually three. I don't think the slingshot has changed at all.

@ SamuraiPanda (or whoever it was), thanks for removing that from the OP, but you shouldn't have also removed the Villager up smash buff. That one is definitely true (KOs at 128% instead of 140% according to Thinkaman, and I recall similar results from my own testing).

Ahh, I see!
And yes, the 128% buff to up-smash is a thing! I tested it myself too.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

On Bowser? That's like... almost the same percent it killed Mario in 1.0.3. I'm sorry, dude, but that can't be right. Wish I could test it more myself now, but since I have the download version of the game I don't think I can revert.

Well someone is doing something wrong.





And it's not me.

P.S. It kills Mario at 128% in 1.0.3

 

[Meloetta Star]

Ah. Alright! I wasn't sure of the % it killed in 1.0.3, I was just going off what people had reported.. xD

 

[Zyrac]

Well someone is doing something wrong.





And it's not me.

P.S. It kills Mario at 128% in 1.0.3

I can only conclude that you think you're playing 1.0.3 when you're not. Check the title screen for me, please?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I can only conclude that you think you're playing 1.0.3 when you're not. Check the title screen for me, please?

1.0.3

There is a very easy way to make me angry.

If that's your goal, then you are succeeding.

 

[Zyrac]

1.0.3

There is a very easy way to make me angry.

If that's your goal, then you are succeeding.

That's not what I meant, but... aw, never mind. I don't wanna annoy anyone, so I'll back off for now. I hope someone else can help clear this up,

 

[KuroganeHammer]

That's not what I meant, but... aw, never mind. I don't wanna annoy anyone, so I'll back off for now. I hope someone else can help clear this up,

Look, I am telling you with 110% certainty that it has NOT been changed.

Pre-1.0.4 patch it kills Mario at 128%

1.0.4 patch it kills Mario at 128%

I don't know WHAT you did to make it 140% in 1.0.3, but whatever it was I don't care.

the files are exactly the same between patches

 

[CyberZixx]

So you are saying Rosalina get a huge nerf? Was some of that really needed? I don't really follow this game at all, just salty becausr I was hype to play a good Rosalina every now and again. Maybe now i'll just drop the game all together.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

So you are saying Rosalina get a huge nerf? Was some of that really needed? I don't really follow this game at all, just salty becausr I was hype to play a good Rosalina every now and again. Maybe now i'll just drop the game all together.

Not the place to discuss this. This thread's devoted to finding the changes the patch had. Not discussing nerfs.

Though, Rosalina was said to be one of, if not the best character in 1.0.3

 

[SonicZeroX]

DEDEDE
GORDO THROW

BUGFIX : Gordo's no longer glitch and get stuck to Dedede rendering the move useless for the rest of the match​

Unfortunately it seems like the glitch still exists at least in the Wii U version: http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2n55rf/sm4sh_wii_u_glitch_king_dedede_has_a_electrified/