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2013 Community Tier List

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Anti-Illuminati
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,863
I'm nobody hence this list, and I'm biased as hell

Falco
Sheik
Fox
Peach
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Marth
Ice Climbers
Falcon
Jigglypuff
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Luigi
Doc
Ganon
Samus
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Pikachu
Link
Yoshi
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Mario
Young Link
Roy
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Donkey Kong
Zelda
G&W
Mewtwo
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Ness
Pichu
Kirby
Bowser
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:awesome:
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
Where are all the good players at? >_>
Well Armada and Mango won't accept my FB friend requests cause they are elitists lol

Dr. PeePee said he would, but he wanted more time to think about it (i'll probably remind him next week if he still hasn't).

Hbox already voted.

I sent M2K a message but he didn't even bother to respond.

I have a list of other top names who declined to vote. Not that they don't have an opinion, but they disagree with some part of the tier list fundamentally. For example, Wobbles told me he thinks it is much less important what the order of characters are but rather the gaps/divisions in the list. I respect their point of view because there is truth in it, but I still see a lot of value in this approach and want to see it through to the end.

But other than that, we have quite a bit of votes guys, and somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 of them are from known tournament players. Great work guys :D I'm so happy
 

Armada

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
1,366
:p

Nah I once had 800 friends on FB and I removed 200 of them and I don't think ANYONE of those 200 ever had talked to me on FB (many of them never in real life either). I think I do have around 200 friend requests right now and a long while ago I kinda stopped looking trough that list because Im kinda lazy sometimes I guess. I have missed to add some people I really should have added before but yeah.

If you tell me your real name I can add you if you want to!
Well the reason I haven't been voteing is because I don't like the concept here.

I do think it is cool that some people show initiative in doing stuff but yeah as I said I don't agree with how the work is done here.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
:p

Nah I once had 800 friends on FB and I removed 200 of them and I don't think ANYONE of those 200 ever had talked to me on FB (many of them never in real life either). I think I do have around 200 friend requests right now and a long while ago I kinda stopped looking trough that list because Im kinda lazy sometimes I guess. I have missed to add some people I really should have added before but yeah.

If you tell me your real name I can add you if you want to!
Well the reason I haven't been voteing is because I don't like the concept here.

I do think it is cool that some people show initiative in doing stuff but yeah as I said I don't agree with how the work is done here.
https://www.facebook.com/sveet

And I understand man. If you find 5 minutes or so and just want to give your opinion, I would be delighted though :)
 

Upke

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
429
Location
Savannah, GA / Cary, NC
Yeah, I wouldn't call ARmada elitist. He was nice enough to tell me his thoughts on Zelda when I asked him even though no one gives a **** about her or me. :bee:
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
I personally find Mario's versality and edgeguarding as a whole to beat out most of Ganon's strats. He hits hard, but Ganon also gets stage ****ed much harder. Both have *** recovery but at least Mario can projectile return. /shrug then again I haven't lost to a Ganon in 6 years. ;) Yes Kage I'm looking at you.

Also if it's "pretty clear" who the better character(s) are, there would be no point to this, am I right? Around that spot on the tier list the lower-tiered characters mesh together more for me. Not a lack of experience, just that they're all pretty bad lol.

AND DONT FORGET GAIZ ITS IMO K
Havent lost to Ganon in 6 years? ... Liar. I beat you before. lol.

Also Ganon has way better options than Mario with platforms.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
Yeah, I wouldn't call ARmada elitist. He was nice enough to tell me his thoughts on Zelda when I asked him even though no one gives a **** about her or me. :bee:
I meant it 100% as a joke. Armada is a boss. He accepted my friend request on FB and gave me a bunch of tips to beat kels :D
 

fennel69

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
45
Location
Lyon, France
Just a regular French Fox player, some tournaments but no really good placement but a lot of freeplay and videos.

1. Fox
3. Marth
4. Falco
5. Jigglypuff
6. Peach
7. Captain Falcon
8. Ice Climbers
9. Samus
10. Dr. Mario
11. Ganondorf
12. Mario
13. Luigi
14. Pikachu
15. Link
16. DK
17. Young Link
18. Roy
19. Mewtwo
20. Yoshi
21. Ness
22. Mr. Game & Watch
23. Zelda
24. Bowser
25. Pichu
26. Kirby
 

Voltz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 31, 2011
Messages
206
Location
Hastings, MN/Burleson, TX
Practicing their Dino... or (insert character here) to improve aspects of their game.. to acquire more knowledge... :)

or sleeping....

EDIT: Yoshi at #23??

ouch!! :( that's not nice...
Well, I honestly do not know much about the lower tiered characters... There are seriously only like 5 people that main Yoshi, and it is difficult to rank underused characters. :/
 

FourStar

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
887
Location
NOR CAL
Just a regular French Fox player, some tournaments but no really good placement but a lot of freeplay and videos.

1. Fox
3. Marth
4. Falco
5. Jigglypuff
6. Peach
7. Captain Falcon
8. Ice Climbers
9. Samus
10. Dr. Mario
11. Ganondorf
12. Mario
13. Luigi
14. Pikachu
15. Link
16. DK
17. Young Link
18. Roy
19. Mewtwo
20. Yoshi
21. Ness
22. Mr. Game & Watch
23. Zelda
24. Bowser
25. Pichu
26. Kirby
where's sheik?
 

t3h Icy

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
4,917
Man, going through this thread, I really hope a lot of the votes are ignored. Not that I'm any better. If this voting scheme is going to be official, it really needs more good players.

Also, it's really interesting how good players put their mains so low.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
Are there any Roy players? Sethlon is the only relevant one I can think of assuming he still plays.
I don't know about mains, but I think Ripple still plays Roy, and V3ctorman has a Roy. Sveet also does too apparently.
Exarch (i hope i spelled that right) from WI has a really good roy, too. M2K has a great roy and so do many others. Some characters people only break out when you're deep at a smashfest or something.
My Roy could beat Sveet's Roy
Maybe, but my roy would woop your faggy marth :)
 

Ripple

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Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,633
as a roy player, I am telling you people that Roy LITERALLY has unwinnable MUs against Peach and ICs, not to mention that he loses horribly to marth, Samus, sheik, puff, ganondorf, and MEWTWO.

anyone who doesn't put roy in bottom 4-6 has only seen roy vs. spacies and thinks he has potential simply because of his dash dance and grab
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
I don't believe roy is that awful. His movement game is top tier, he just has some serious problems setting up kills and his recovery is pretty trash. I also don't believe he loses to mewtwo, unless the stage is dreamland and the mewtwo is platform camping with teleport or something.
 

Ripple

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Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,633
as someone who has played against Iori's mewtwo multiple times. Roy definitely loses to Mewtwo badly. Roy's lack of kill set ups's and baits is far more problematic than you think. Roy is bottom 5
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
Idk if I would base my opinion on that one, man. Iori is an amaaaaazing player; he can beat a lot of people's top tiers with his mewtwo, but that doesn't mean mewtwo wins the match-up.
 

Ziodyne

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
571
Location
UCLA
I agree with Ripple based on my limited experience with Roy...

Roy's movement options are fantastic, but his anti-air options are absolute garbage from what I can tell. His aerials work well for juggling spacies/falcon, but against a floaty character (where good aerials would be essential i should think), his aerials don't do anything meaningful besides tag with some percent.

His lack of kill setups seems very severe from what I can tell, he can get early kills if he reads with like forward smash or lands third/fourth hit of side b, but apart from that i dunno how he'll get a kill setup on someone like mew2.

so i dunno, maybe i'm just looking too hard into roy's downfalls to see mewtwo's, but i could see it being a really bad matchup for roy
 

V3ctorMan

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
2,261
Location
Sierra Vista AZ
I play TAJ often in this MU.. it ain't pretty.. and Taj is well Taj... and his Mewtwo, doesn't lose to many other low tiers in general... Playing someone w/the spacing, mindgames, combo ability that Taj has... Yeah I don't see any Roy beating Taj's Mewtwo...

Also... yeah Roy's pretty bad... and I believe in like all the low tiers (sorta) and though I wanted to pull off miracles with Roy... I soon faced a rough reality... Sure my Roy can win some games... but Roy is trash.. (sadly) His goods, just aren't enough to outweigh things thar are relevant...
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
as a roy player, I am telling you people that Roy LITERALLY has unwinnable MUs against Peach and ICs, not to mention that he loses horribly to marth, Samus, sheik, puff, ganondorf, and MEWTWO.

anyone who doesn't put roy in bottom 4-6 has only seen roy vs. spacies and thinks he has potential simply because of his dash dance and grab
Yeah, idk what people are thinking when they put Roy outside of the bottom 5. He's third from last on my list, only beating out Pichu and Kirby. lol Just out of curiosity, you've probably never been platform camped playing Roy (because why would they have to), but is it even feasible for Roy to KO an opponent who insists on platform camping? It seems like he'd just smack them with his wet noodle until they're at 200%+ and nair will finally deal some decent KB, but I'm far from a Roy expert.
 

Jayk

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
124
Not every vote will be counted in the "official" list.
What are the criteria for having your vote counted? I don't particularly care if mine is, which I imagine it wouldn't be because I am nobody, but just am wondering.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
Yeah, idk what people are thinking when they put Roy outside of the bottom 5. He's third from last on my list, only beating out Pichu and Kirby. lol Just out of curiosity, you've probably never been platform camped playing Roy (because why would they have to), but is it even feasible for Roy to KO an opponent who insists on platform camping? It seems like he'd just smack them with his wet noodle until they're at 200%+ and nair will finally deal some decent KB, but I'm far from a Roy expert.
I mean, its not really anything Marth doesn't go through already, right? I mean, eventually marth's uair will KO or something, but how can he ever kill someone below 200%?

What are the criteria for having your vote counted? I don't particularly care if mine is, which I imagine it wouldn't be because I am nobody, but just am wondering.
There will be a panel of respected players from various regions who will decide.
 

Uranium235

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
37
It seems like the slower characters require a lot of prediction/mindgames to get kills, so for roy to kill a platform camper hed probably have to trick them into thinking hes going to use an aerial or something and then use counter to reflect any move they use on you (that may sound unclear). It seems like dash dancing could help with that
 

Ripple

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Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,633
@bones

I have been platformed camped before and even when its someone without much practice doing it, it can be a real problem. Roys only real solution to platform camping is to get on the side platforms and run off the side and double jump to the top and try to catch them. Luckily, on all stages roys double jump is lagless when running off the sides and DJing up to the top. (Like samus or sheik on stadium/yoshis)

And the only way to really punish them is with flare blade or grab and up throw if they have any significant damage.
 

AlienAllen

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
655
Location
Salem, OR
I play Roy so much that I basically secondary him. I have even entered tournaments with Roy(horrible mistake). Not only does he have some nearly unwinnable matchups as Ripple pointed out, he also gets comboed hard by everyone. He has some strengths such as his movement, his grab, his downtilt, and his side-b and f-smash are decent, but that's about it.

However, he is damn fun to play against spacies.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
I mean, its not really anything Marth doesn't go through already, right? I mean, eventually marth's uair will KO or something, but how can he ever kill someone below 200%?
People frequently bring up how Marth struggles to KO as a valid concern, and that's with much stronger attacks that are strongest at their tips. Having weaker attacks that are even weaker at their tips makes it A LOT harder to get someone off stage. Marth is also floatier allowing him to more easily deal with people jumping around on platforms because he can bait out jumps and wait for the opponent to land. Roy's effectively smaller range, weaker attacks, and faster falling speed all present significant issues when trying to deal with platform campers that Marth never really encounters. Simply looking at how PP played vs. Armada at Apex GFs, it is quite easy to see that while Marth may not KO very early, he certainly has the tools to do it. All I am asking is what tools does Roy have to KO a Peach in the same situation? His utilt doesn't kill, sweetspotting an fsmash isn't likely to happen (it is dangerous enough as Marth), so what else can he do? What happens when we apply the same situation to a fatty like Falcon? I'm not even taking into account the opponent trying to counterattack in these situations. Even with a Falcon just hopping around without LCing stomps to protect himself, it seems nearly impossible for Roy to knock him over, let alone off stage. He'll just keep uairing over and over until he can somehow, idk, aerial neutral-B him? I'm curious what your Roy would do. ;)
 

Ripple

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Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,633
Oh I forgot to mention.

Roy loses to kirby. And I'm dead serious about this
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
Well Roy has basically the same strength of moves as marth (many are stronger), only the sweetspot is in the middle of the sword not the tip. Some of roy's moves are slightly slower, though. You mention that marth can float in the air and delay his uair, but roy has the ability to shffl uairs much faster than marth does.

Platform camping does pose a bit of a problem, but I really don't like where this discussion is going. If I say that Roy can do X to stop Y, you will simply say how trashy it is or that it doesn't work or whatever, and nothing will get accomplished. Discussions such as these can only happen when two people are playing said match-up with each other.

Yes, Roy has weaknesses, but he also has strengths a lot of low tiers only wished they had. His ground game is amazing, he has an excellent SHFFL, his dash dance and grab are among the best in the game, he can use most of marth's edgeguard methods, his wavedash is quick and long and he has plenty of disjointed hitboxes.

Roy has some really ****ty match-ups with characters that can't be edgeguarded (puff/peach), but he probably has the best match-ups with spacies outside of the top 10. He does better than ganondorf or link, i'll tell you that much.


tl;dr, Roy is much better than kirby, pichu, and the like.
 

Uranium235

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
37
One of the things roy really lacks that seems to be prevelant in the f/g tiers is a good recovery, but his ko power is second only to bowser (if that) which can make him a big threat in low tier play. (Im not saying recovery is the only thing he lacks, but just something that can make him inferior to most in the bottom tiers, not that he is)
 

Ripple

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Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,633
Sveet, if you think that roy can stop platform camping specifically then I have to tell you that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Other things, sure, he has specific answers for things, but flatform camping is an absolute nightmare
 
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