1.0.4 Changes and also apologies - LUMA CAN STILL HIT WHEN GRABBED

[RyokoYaksa]

Yeah, I'm not imagining things. Rosalina's Usmash is weaker than Luma's now. Still 12 damage, but KBG is lower to the point where Luma's KOs sooner now. This bit is probably may more significant than the KO potential of Rosalina's Nair.

Dtilt also doesn't seem to hit from Rosalina's back as well. Can anyone else confirm that with 1.03?

 

[felix45]

Can anyone test to see off Nair hitbox is smaller? I noticed less knockback and only does 7% instead of 10%.

And a longer end lag on dsmash? Can anyone confirm?


Usmash has changes too? Can anyone confirm?


Hope the hitbox on Nair is the same but I am afraid it is smaller...

 

[InfinityZERO]

Since Rosaluma is getting changed, can someone confirm something for me? With in all the tournaments I've seen, I don't see Rosaluma wrecking everything (even the best Rosaluma player out there has lost). I even took part in a tournament and I lost (I won two rounds, didn't even make it to the semi-/finals), I didn't wreck ****. Since the game has been out for not even 3 months, do you all think these are changes are necessary? All I usually see is complaining (on YouTube, specifically shofu's channel) that this duo is some ungodly Galatus who can't be stopped. The duo has never come off like Meta Knight Brawl to me, IE dtilt is unblockable and he is a god in the air.

Good to see Luma still can help you on grab!

 

[Smasher89]

Rosaluma won the US and UK 3ds national ) and probably had good results on for glory.

 

[Sup3rn00b]

Good to know she wasn't nerfed too badly.

Yeah, I'm not imagining things. Rosalina's Usmash is weaker than Luma's now. Still 12 damage, but KBG is lower to the point where Luma's KOs sooner now. This bit is probably may more significant than the KO potential of Rosalina's Nair.

Is the KO potential on usmash still as viable as it was? I use it all the time.

Also, any major changes on her Fair? has knockback changed or anything?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If the up smash truly is nerfed, can someone get an estimate on how much damage Mario needs to be KO'd by that attack? Uncharged and fully charged estimates would be appreciated.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Former 1.0.3 checking in, I'm downloading the update as I type this.

To address OP's questions specifically:

Nair heel strike vs. Zelda on Jungle Japes (Omega) killed at approximately 155% with final 10% strike. (Early hits do 6% with lesser knockback, just learned that today go figure.)

When performing rising SHFF Nair to Dtilt, Luma did not dtilt with Rosalina. A regular SH Nair (no FF) will allow Luma to participate in the dtilt followup.

Combined dtilt damage in training mode was 8%. Rosalina does 4% solo and Luma does 3% solo. I conclude the extra .5% was present in 1.0.3.

Also for for the sake of comparison, in 1.0.3 I could break the following grabs in training mode:

• DK's pummel animation
• DK's cargo hold
• Captain Falcon's Falcon Dive
• Bowser's down throw
• Kirby's throws in general
• I was unable to test Bowser's Flying Press and Ganondorf's Flame Choke due to uncooperative AI.
• Ganondorf's Dark Dive cannot be interrupted with Luma despite being similar to Captain Falcon's due to AOE electric hitboxes that put Luma in hitstun.
• Kirby's Inhale was theoretically interruptable since Luma could attack, but the positioning was never sufficient to actually hit Kirby.

Other notes from 1.0.3:

• Rosalina's nair does 10% at the very end, 6% otherwise.
• Max charge Luma Shot: 2.5 inches
• Min charge Luma Shot: 1.385 inches

(FD was measured with a standard ruler along the distant edge of the stage while Rosalina and Mario were standing on opposite ends.)

@ ChikoLad Even if you can't link, where would I find this post by Sabina? Competitive subforum, Reddit, somewhere else?

 

[Parcheesy]

Reading this, it seems they're trying to push Rosalina towards a more offstage / gimp focused character. The knockback nerf on nair means it will chain easier into fair ( This was already possible at some percents, and is usually super lethal offstage ), and the hit to her down and up smash means her most reliable way to score a kill would be to carry them off. It's going to take a bit of time to adjust to the changes, but I still think Rosalina is a great character.

 

[Neos]

I think some of these were already covered, but here's some changes I found out so far that some people may not know of:

D-tilt: Rosalina's head doesn't have a hitbox anymore, so instead you have to tilt the control stick slightly backwards so Luma can D-tilt the opposite way to cover rolling option.

Up-Smash: Luma's Up-Smash is now stronger than Rosalina's (I tested this out in Training Mode).

D-Smash: There's more cooldown now so there's a better chance you'll get punished doing the move.

Luma Shot: Distance is A LOT shorter when you tap B and doesn't have a lingering hitbox at the end anymore. When calling Luma back to you it retreats MUCH faster. Also, I may be wrong but when Rosalina waves her wand to call Luma back, the wind blow effect when standing in front of Rosalina seems to blow people away a bit further.

N-air: Definitely does 7% at most instead of 10% like it used to. Also the knockback is definitely A LOT weaker (R.I.P. my most used move ).

Grab: Idk how much damage her pummel did in ver. 1.0.3 but it does 2% in 1.0.4. Did her pummel get stronger or is it just me?

Overall I find the changes so far very sad and kinda unnecessary imo. I didn't mind Luma taking a longer time to respawn, but I never expected many other changes to her aattacks. Hopefully this won't stop people from playing Rosalina and Luma because I'm still gonna main her no matter what.

 

[ChikoLad]

@ ChikoLad Even if you can't link, where would I find this post by Sabina? Competitive subforum, Reddit, somewhere else?

The auto correct on my phone must have messed up without me noticing earlier, as I was trying to type "dabunzz".

Here's the page:
http://smashboards.com/threads/community-patch-notes-v1-0-4.378404/

And here's the contents of the post in case you don't want to scroll down for them:

Rosa stuff: (Tested mostly by me, write up courtesy of Xaltis)


Rosalina:

Nair damage got a slight nerf in percent it does.

Grab got a cooldown increase

Down Smash cooldown increase

Forward Smash Slight start up Increase? (We couldn't get a 100% for sure answer on this)

Nair knockback is decreased

Luma:

Gains 15 more HP (Edit: This is wrong)

Shoots a shorter distance with fully charge Luma shot. (Which is better)

Comes back faster when you call him back.

Luma shot got cooldown decrease.

Can still break grabs.

Doesn't do anything that the Wii U help tip says about him.

On stages with walls that go all the way down. (Yoshi's Island Brawl, and other Omegas) if Luma doesn't make it back to the stage with his 3 jumps, he will fall to his death, but on stages with these walls instead of dying, he glitches back to the middle of the stage.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Okay, 1.0.4 downloaded.

Going off my same measuring system, uncharged Luma Shot goes .875 inches. Full charged Luma Shot goes 2.5 inches still. Only the uncharged Luma Shot got a range nerf. It also definitely feels faster returning to Rosalina but I'm not sure how to quantify that.

Dtilt still did 8% damage combined.

Nair does 7% on the final hit, 5% otherwise. That's a 3%/1% damage nerf. It utterly failed to kill Zelda at 155% on Jungle Japes Omega so definite knockback nerf too.

Luma was still able to hit DK as he pummeled Rosalina. However, I was unable to hit Kirby out of his throw animations like I could in 1.0.3, nor could I hit Captain Falcon out of his Falcon Dive. Luma also couldn't do anything while I was inhaled by Kirby. I conclude that although Rosalina's ability to free herself from pummels is unchanged, she is now unable to escape a throw once the animation is in progress, including command grabs. (Which honestly was pretty stupid, so I'm okay with this.) If someone with 2 copies could test Bowser and Ganondorf's command grabs that would be great since I've given up on the AI doing anything right.

Also Luma Warp still goes the same distance.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I'm probably just wrong about Rosalina's Usmash being "weaker." It may just be that Luma's Usmash is stronger now, since it kills well off a Warp combo. Can't really tell without the 2 builds side by side, though.

 

[felix45]

Can anyone test to see off Nair hitbox is smaller? I noticed less knockback and only does 7% instead of 10%.

And a longer end lag on dsmash? Can anyone confirm?


Usmash has changes too? Can anyone confirm?


Hope the hitbox on Nair is the same but I am afraid it is smaller...

Okay, 1.0.4 downloaded.

Going off my same measuring system, uncharged Luma Shot goes .875 inches. Full charged Luma Shot goes 2.5 inches still. Only the uncharged Luma Shot got a range nerf. It also definitely feels faster returning to Rosalina but I'm not sure how to quantify that.

Dtilt still did 8% damage combined.

Nair does 7% on the final hit, 5% otherwise. That's a 3%/1% damage nerf. It utterly failed to kill Zelda at 155% on Jungle Japes Omega so definite knockback nerf too.

Luma was still able to hit DK as he pummeled Rosalina. However, I was unable to hit Kirby out of his throw animations like I could in 1.0.3, nor could I hit Captain Falcon out of his Falcon Dive. Luma also couldn't do anything while I was inhaled by Kirby. I conclude that although Rosalina's ability to free herself from pummels is unchanged, she is now unable to escape a throw once the animation is in progress, including command grabs. (Which honestly was pretty stupid, so I'm okay with this.) If someone with 2 copies could test Bowser and Ganondorf's command grabs that would be great since I've given up on the AI doing anything right.

Also Luma Warp still goes the same distance.

Yeah I just played a couple fg matches and I haven't been able to get out of grabs as easily or hit with luma after I have been thrown. The luma speed increase seems to make it harder to hit with luma after being thrown.


Also I really think Nair hitbox is smaller than before and if anyone could conconfirm I would really appreciate it.
stuff I am sure I would have hit before the update I am not and I am losing vs attacks that I thought I had more range than.

 

[icraq]

If the usmash was truly nerfed that's so incredibly careless. That is Rosa's one kill move in solo and it was so far from broken. I am having a difficult time imagining taking a game seriously that would so obviously cater to those who would rather complain than overcome. The stupid thing is, the weak players who have been complaining about her won't even notice these changes. But if Nintendo's response to whatever the flavor of the month is is to nerf it with such a broad stroke, I don't think I want to continue wasting my time with them.

This is just the cherry on top, all the possible advancements in the meta are getting shut down before we can even evolve them, e.g. Bomb canceling, DACUS, shadow sneak canceling.

I just don't want to have to learn a new character every 2 months when this inevitably continues to happen, moving down the roster one at a time.

What's the point?

 

[ChikoLad]

Just tested U-Smash.

In 1.0.3, it sends them straight up. In 1.0.4, it has an angle to it, and may be SLIGHTLY weaker (though it may be the exact same knockback and the angle is throwing my perception off). I tested this on Bowser hitting him from 100%. The move still does 12% uncharged. I hit him from the default position he starts at when you "reset" training. I used "1/4 Speed (Hold L)", to make sure I could see where the apex of the launch was. In 1.0.4, he was literally touching the top edge of the screen, in 1.0.3, he went a bit past it (top image is 1.0.3, bottom is 1.0.4).

 

[Dabuz]

Tested upsmash on diddy with both 1.04 and 1.03, kills about 20% later with solo Rosa =X

Dtilt hitbox also nerfed massively.

Time to pick up a new character.

 

[InfinityZERO]

They really ruined how she used to play, I'm considering giving her up. Also, what the hell happened with Pikachu? He's able to Quick Attack and then attack instantly on the ground. I just got bodied by one who had no lag from Quick Attack, so he was able to just Quick Attack and just combo!

 

[icraq]

Tested upsmash on diddy with both 1.04 and 1.03, kills about 20% later with solo Rosa =X

Dtilt hitbox also nerfed massively.

Time to pick up a new character.

Good god, what were they thinking?

 

[smashmachine]

Rosaluma won the US and UK 3ds national ) and probably had good results on for glory.

there was a UK national?

also those tournaments are so fraudulent lmao

 

[NairWizard]

Tested upsmash on diddy with both 1.04 and 1.03, kills about 20% later with solo Rosa =X

Dtilt hitbox also nerfed massively.

Time to pick up a new character.

Welp, the best Rosalina in the USA is probably quitting Rosalina. This means I have one less Rosalina to worry about at APEX! Yay! Who are you picking up btw?

 

[felix45]

Can anyone post vid of Dtilt hitbox before and after? Also Nair?

And dsmash vid to show endlag would be good.

 

[Parcheesy]

Pretty sure it's new, but you can GP gordos now

 

[ChikoLad]

Pretty sure it's new, but you can GP gordos now

That's not new, you could always do that.

 

[iimthomas]

am i crazy, or does she feel really slow online? please tell me im crazy lol. everything feels slower to me

 

[Clemente]

RIP sweet princess

 

[NiTEZ]

The amount of people looking for new mains after this patch/dropping mains because of patch changes is just kinda depressing to me. I understand that the changes made may affect gameplay, but still considering it's a patch it likely won't be permanent. I'm going to stick to my guns on this regardless. She could be far worse than what this patch is doing...I had high hopes for Palutena and that didn't turn out so well.

 

[InfinityZERO]

am i crazy, or does she feel really slow online? please tell me im crazy lol. everything feels slower to me

You're not the only one. Even circling like a shark (dashing back and forth) feels slow. That plus the nerf to the Luma Shot distance makes closing the distance with her difficult.

 

[ChikoLad]

You're not the only one. Even circling like a shark (dashing back and forth) feels slow. That plus the nerf to the Luma Shot distance makes closing the distance with her difficult.

Luma Shot distance is only lessened when completely uncharged. This is good, because now you have like, three ranges to choose from.

 

[Krazy4Krash]

Down Tilt has definitely had its hitbox changed. In Training Mode, I would stand in front of Mario while we both face right, crouch, crawl towards him and perform Down Tilt. In 1.0.3, it damages him. In 1.0.4, it doesn't.

 

[ChikoLad]

Down Tilt has definitely had its hitbox changed. In Training Mode, I would stand in front of Mario while we both face right, crouch, crawl towards him and perform Down Tilt. In 1.0.3, it damages him. In 1.0.4, it doesn't.

That's because they've fixed it so that you need Luma to attack behind. Holding diagonally backward with Down Tilt makes Luma take the rear.

 

[Sup3rn00b]

Downloading the Update, I heard some people talking about gravitational pull nerfs? is this true, or was it just a rumor?

 

[ChikoLad]

Downloading the Update, I heard some people talking about gravitational pull nerfs? is this true, or was it just a rumor?

Gravitational Pull seems the exact same to me. I haven't checked to see if LESS things can be GP'd, but in terms of range and how the move works, it's the same.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Down Tilt has definitely had its hitbox changed. In Training Mode, I would stand in front of Mario while we both face right, crouch, crawl towards him and perform Down Tilt. In 1.0.3, it damages him. In 1.0.4, it doesn't.

*checks training mode*

Oh THAT'S what everyone was on about, Rosalina's dtilt doesn't hit behind her anymore. I thought it was the front range that was nerfed and I was all "lolwut."

Holding it diagonally backwards is genius though, it looks really funny when Luma crosses you up.

 

[ChikoLad]

Just checked, and Rosalina can no longer GP Olimar's Pikmin.

I actually wanted that change, because it made the match up completely one sided for Rosalina to be able to do that. It's still quite a bit in Rosalina's favour, but at least there's SOME sort of a fight to go on now.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@ ChikoLad : Care to try to figure out how much damage Mario needs to be KO'd by Rosalina's up smash? Uncharged and fully charged estimates would be appreciated.

 

[Iron Kraken]

That's because they've fixed it so that you need Luma to attack behind. Holding diagonally backward with Down Tilt makes Luma take the rear.

This is so weird, but that's exactly right. We just need to get used to holding diagonally for down-tilts now.

Assuming we get used to holding diagonally, is there any other practical difference? If not, that would be huge, because a down-tilt nerf was one of my biggest concerns.

 

[ChikoLad]

@ ChikoLad : Care to try to figure out how much damage Mario needs to be KO'd by Rosalina's up smash? Uncharged and fully charged estimates would be appreciated.

I tried the percents you had posted in the Complete Coverage thread from before. Uncharged KO'd at 135%, Fully Charged KO'd at 100%, which is exactly in line with what you had before.

This is so weird, but that's exactly right. We just need to get used to holding diagonally for down-tilts now.

Assuming we get used to holding diagonally, is there any other practical difference? If not, that would be huge, because a down-tilt nerf was one of my biggest concerns.

I actually consider it a fix, because you could already make Luma do the D-Tilt behind you before this patch. It just wasn't really necessary to do so because Rosalina's own hitbox went behind her. I assume the original intention of the move was to allow Rosalina to only hit behind her when Luma is present.

 

[Iron Kraken]

Is Rosalina's Dair slower or am I imagining it?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I tried the percents you had posted in the Complete Coverage thread from before. Uncharged KO'd at 135%, Fully Charged KO'd at 100%, which is exactly in line with what you had before.

So basically its knockback hasn't been weakened at all. It's just the angle of the knockback that's different.

 

[ChikoLad]

Is Rosalina's Dair slower or am I imagining it?

It seems the exact same to me.

#bewaretheplacebo

So basically its knockback hasn't been weakened at all. It's just the angle of the knockback that's different.

I think that's it. Only odd thing is it definitely was a little harder to KO Bowser with it earlier. Do heavier characters gain more of an advantage from "angled" attacks or something?