1.0.4 Changes and also apologies - LUMA CAN STILL HIT WHEN GRABBED

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Reminder that you'll get percents where something may or may not KO the CPU depending on what it decides to do when hit. Launch Speed's more consistent to look at.

Rosalina fsmash vs 150% Mario
1.0.1: 154
1.0.4: 149

So it was slightly nerfed.

This is basically why I often use the word "potentially" when doing damage estimates needed for KOing Mario.

 

[TurnUp]

I had a 1 on 1 Rosalina dittos match on FG and can honestly say that having Luma KO'd feels much more rewarding and actually gives you the upper hand, the person was spamming downsmash and the lag on that is now highly punishable rather than being really easy to get multiple hits. Unfortunately he SD'd and then unplugged the cartridge (obviously by the lag that happened as soon as he knew he wasn't getting back up. So I couldn't test the ditto matchup anymore than 3 matches.

 

[DanGR]

Someone mentioned Fair got buffed based on data mining, that I can believe and it explains why lately I can fair someone, land mid move, and not get jabbed for free, heck, fair -> jab can COMBO now, and sometimes the first or second hit of fair causes a weak launch effect, definitely not possible pre-patch.

This is huge.

Also, yeah the n-air nerf is the most unfortunate one, imo. That's a lot of damage shaved off each stock.

The d-smash change hurts, but rosalina has plenty of other options to fill the same gap.

 

[murasakiame]

everyone here seems to be pussyfooting around the fact that the changes are nerfs in and of themselves. the changes to bread & butter options like nair and dsmash are enormously disruptive in that you have to grapple with their new utility and reintegrate them (if possible) into your gameplay. this is basically stripping away your experience with the character and having to train again -- something that most other characters do not have to do. and for what? there was no consensus that rosaluma was broken. who's to say that there won't be more arbitrary changes in another month and a half? i am severely disappointed and any urgency i felt to get the wii u version has been greatly diminished. i'm not at all interested in learning a character over again every two months.

 

[ChikoLad]

everyone here seems to be *****footing around the fact that the changes are nerfs in and of themselves. the changes to bread & butter options like nair and dsmash are enormously disruptive in that you have to grapple with their new utility and reintegrate them (if possible) into your gameplay. this is basically stripping away your experience with the character and having to train again -- something that most other characters do not have to do. and for what? there was no consensus that rosaluma was broken. who's to say that there won't be more arbitrary changes in another month and a half? i am severely disappointed and any urgency i felt to get the wii u version has been greatly diminished. i'm not at all interested in learning a character over again every two months.

...We don't have to re-learn the character, at all. I've been getting along just fine with more or less the same tactics. I think you're overreacting quite a bit, and this is ignoring the fact that Rosalina & Luma got some buffs too.

 

[murasakiame]

...We don't have to re-learn the character, at all. I've been getting along just fine with more or less the same tactics. I think you're overreacting quite a bit, and this is ignoring the fact that Rosalina & Luma got some buffs too.

buffs where? if you're using rosaluma the same way after these changes, then i'm not even sure it's worth having the conversation with you, with all due respect.

 

[NairWizard]

@ murasakiame : She's still the same character that she always was in terms of how strong she is. She got worse at competitive top levels of play. That's it. At all other levels of play she is the same. You won't notice a difference in your For Glory rating. It just won't happen. The kind of nerfs that she received are offset by the buffs at most any level of play. It takes an opponent with surgical precision at excising Luma to capitalize on the new timer and d-smash nerfs.

You have to make changes to your gameplay style, but you have to do this in every single match that you fight. Adaptation is important.

 

[murasakiame]

who cares about an FG rating? i play competitively; every hit matters. i put a lot of work into learning the ins and outs of this character. nintendo effectively undid much of that work, arbitrarily and without cause. that's annoying.

she is not at all the same. my mobility suffers because there's new lag in random places. making her more reliant on a luma slower to respawn in order to actually do anything is a severe nerf because as anyone who plays competitively can tell you, killing luma is very easy to accomplish (no surgical precision required). rolling is already godly in this game; neutering her best option to deter it is extremely detrimental. luma returning quicker is not a buff, imo, but i'll concede that it's debatable. i feel it makes using luma to attack as he's covering ground returning less effective -- gives you less time to input, less precision with spacing, and makes it easier to dodge.

don't chalk these changes up to simple adaptation -- that's a false equivalence. adapting to an opponent is one thing, doing it while the ground is changing under your feet is another. i am probably overreacting, fine, but the arbitrary nature of these changes really chafes. and i don't think i'm overstating how much less viable she is in competitive play. she wasn't the best to begin with, she was just difficult to deal with if you didn't know what you were doing. the fact that nintendo so casually made these shifts to appease novices makes it difficult for me to justify dedicating myself to the game as i have for the last month.

 

[MajorMoses]

So is it just me or is it now impossible to completely stop Luma's return by using her jab combo?

One of my strategies against slower players was to Luma shot over the edge while they're hanging on. While it registers in their head to climb back on stage, I press B and have Luma return to me, only to stop her right in front of the ledge where they stand up by inputting a jab combo. I love surprising people with this but when I was trying to do it online, she got a single jab out and then continued rushing back towards me. A disappointing change but I'll live.

 

[icraq]

who cares about an FG rating? i play competitively; every hit matters. i put a lot of work into learning the ins and outs of this character. nintendo effectively undid much of that work, arbitrarily and without cause. that's annoying.

i'm with you on all this. i'm not a dabuz or anything amazing but i play this game to strive to be the best in the competitive scene regardless. my reaction speeds are subpar, my mindgames are average, i'm nothing special but i think what makes me strong as a competitive player is my ability to learn and adapt and not let things out of my control steer me away from becoming better.

this is something that i feel completely beaten by. i dont feel like it's a change i can overcome and it's incredibly disheartening. that's why i respect @ ChikoLad and the rest who are remaining positive throughout this. i just can't see any good coming from this. i'm a one trick pony in any smash game, i pick up a character and i learn them well. i've put a ton of hours into relying on certain moves that no longer work, so i have to overwrite (as of now) 3,318 battles of using Rosalina's nair, dtilt, dsmash, usmash, etc in very specific ways.

nair for all intents and purposes is completely garbage now. the hitbox change and teh damage and knockback reduction have made the move completely useless. however it was one of rosalina's only solid approaches in the air. now i have to unlearn that. and i liked nair, i liked the way it moved and how it spaced, it had something just right about it, so i used it a lot. this is my biggest thing that i have to overcome.

this ****ty part is the biggest tournament my town has had since smash 4 came out is this weekend, which means i don't have time to learn a new character. i'm still planning on winning it, because anything less isn't something i can learn from, but i have one hell of a hill to climb to get there.

 

[Steam]

pre this patch her nair was absolutely ridiculous and a lot of characters had no answer for it, that's probably why it felt so good. this patch the hitboxes seem less utterly ridiculous maybe? idk the move is still really good.

 

[icraq]

pre this patch her nair was absolutely ridiculous and a lot of characters had no answer for it, that's probably why it felt so good. this patch the hitboxes seem less utterly ridiculous maybe? idk the move is still really good.

It did, I think maybe you just never encountered anyone who knew what to do against it. It's a weird move, it confused people more than anything, but it was extremely vulnerable from the front and underneath.
The move isn't good anymore. It does pitiful dmg, most characters' nairs are 'get away from me' attacks, which Rosalina's fails completely at, it's slow and you can't poke shields safely with it.

I honestly can't think of one reason to use it, unless you're facing people who don't know where the hitbox is on it.

 

[Iron Kraken]

It did, I think maybe you just never encountered anyone who knew what to do against it. It's a weird move, it confused people more than anything, but it was extremely vulnerable from the front and underneath.
The move isn't good anymore. It does pitiful dmg, most characters' nairs are 'get away from me' attacks, which Rosalina's fails completely at, it's slow and you can't poke shields safely with it.

I honestly can't think of one reason to use it, unless you're facing people who don't know where the hitbox is on it.

Nair is still really good, maybe not as good, but if you knew about the merits of Nair before I don't know how you could possibly think it's still not a really good attack. So you thought it was a really good approach option when it did 10/6% damage, but now that it does 7.5/5% damage the move is pitiful? That seems like a great exaggeration. Especially since with the reduced knockback it's easier to do follow up attacks.

The reason Nair is a good approaching option is because it's versatile. You can fast fall with it, or you can not fast fall with it. You can initially not fast fall, and then fast fall. You can push towards them if you think you can get a hit, or push away from them if you sense danger. The move last so long that you can decide all of this while the attack is still active. The landing lag on Nair is extremely minimal so if you hit your opponents shield you're in good shape. You can go immediately into d-tilt or f-tilt, or shield, or roll backwards, or whatever else you feel the right move is. But you already knew this. Nair is still a very good approach option when used right.

I played Smash for about 4 hours today, with pretty much the same exact level of success I had before the patch. You know what I actually did notice a difference on? The lack of vectoring / dying to attacks earlier than I did before (that's true for all characters.) I approached with Nair the same exact way with the same level of effectiveness, except for racking up 2.5/1% less damage on each hit. All of Rosalina's other nerfs felt negligible, I'm not even sure I personally would have noticed them if I hadn't known about the changes beforehand.

But the change that really catches my attention is the improvement on the Luma Shot. If you separate Rosalina and Luma, you can now reliably punish your opponent if they try to hit Luma away. Even if they succeed in hitting Luma away, it's worth the 13-15 second loss of Luma for the free punish. Before the patch it was just a loss, which is why I rarely tossed Luma. I'm tossing Luma with much, much greater frequency now, with good results.

 

[icraq]

Nair is still really good, maybe not as good, but if you knew about the merits of Nair before I don't know how you could possibly think it's still not a really good attack. So you thought it was a really good approach option when it did 10/6% damage, but now that it does 7.5/5% damage the move is pitiful? That seems like a great exaggeration. Especially since with the reduced knockback it's easier to do follow up attacks.

The reason Nair is a good approaching option is because it's versatile. You can fast fall with it, or you can not fast fall with it. You can initially not fast fall, and then fast fall. You can push towards them if you think you can get a hit, or push away from them if you sense danger. The move last so long that you can decide all of this while the attack is still active. The landing lag on Nair is extremely minimal so if you hit your opponents shield you're in good shape. You can go immediately into d-tilt or f-tilt, or shield, or roll backwards, or whatever else you feel the right move is. But you already knew this. Nair is still a very good approach option when used right.

SHFF Nair isn't anywhere as good as it was, as the hitbox was shrunk significantly, it used to cover rolls underneath/behind you but now the, well, butt hitbox, barely comes out before you land if you FF it. Even not FF'ed the move still has way less range. It's also a gambling move, because it can be easily countered if your opponent expects it, but now the gamble isn't worth the risk.

That 2.5% can make a ton of difference, especially with a move that is her best approach. If it was just percentages, it might still be usable. But the hitbox shrinking and the knockback changes really screw it. The knockback being lowered has NO EFFECT on lower percentages, you can follow up on it just as well as you could in 1.0.3, it only matters at higher percentages when you used to be able to knock people off the stage with it and potentially set up edgeguards, or even KO them outright.

I think the balancing team simply looked at For Glory statistics and it must have shown moves that people used the most and they just blindly nerfed everything that got overused. Except for Kirby, apparently he's perfect.

 

[Iron Kraken]

SHFF Nair isn't anywhere as good as it was, as the hitbox was shrunk significantly, it used to cover rolls underneath/behind you but now the, well, butt hitbox, barely comes out before you land if you FF it. Even not FF'ed the move still has way less range. It's also a gambling move, because it can be easily countered if your opponent expects it, but now the gamble isn't worth the risk.

That 2.5% can make a ton of difference, especially with a move that is her best approach. If it was just percentages, it might still be usable. But the hitbox shrinking and the knockback changes really screw it. The knockback being lowered has NO EFFECT on lower percentages, you can follow up on it just as well as you could in 1.0.3, it only matters at higher percentages when you used to be able to knock people off the stage with it and potentially set up edgeguards, or even KO them outright.

I think the balancing team simply looked at For Glory statistics and it must have shown moves that people used the most and they just blindly nerfed everything that got overused. Except for Kirby, apparently he's perfect.

Okay, so Nair is not an attack that covers everything 100 feet to the left and 100 feet to the right and 100 feet up and 100 feet down no matter what your opponent is doing. Boo hoo. Yes, you have to use it somewhat thoughtfully, it's not a fail-safe option. But it's still a very good approach option. I was able to use it to mostly the same effect as I did before the patch.

 

[icraq]

Okay, so Nair is not an attack that covers everything 100 feet to the left and 100 feet to the right and 100 feet up and 100 feet down no matter what your opponent is doing. Boo hoo. Yes, you have to use it somewhat thoughtfully, it's not a fail-safe option. But it's still a very good approach option. I was able to use it to mostly the same effect as I did before the patch.

Well, yes, I'm glad you agree with me, that's what I was saying, losing 100 feet in every direction is a hefty nerf. It was never fail-safe before against a good opponent. It's just more fail-prone now, and I think it's more likely to fail than to succeed. I'm glad you've not had to change your playstyle, I hope that continues being the case.

 

[Iron Kraken]

Well, yes, I'm glad you agree with me, that's what I was saying, losing 100 feet in every direction is a hefty nerf. It was never fail-safe before against a good opponent. It's just more fail-prone now, and I think it's more likely to fail than to succeed. I'm glad you've not had to change your playstyle, I hope that continues being the case.

What I'm saying is that the move is mostly as good as it was before. Like, if before the patch Rosalina's Nair was a perfect 10, I'd give it a solid 7.5 now (ha, what a coincidence). It's still a very good attack.

But it really makes no sense when you say things like "the move isn't good anymore" and "I can't think of one reason to use it."

I mean, have you actually played a lot of matches, using Nair as you did before the patch, and found that a great move suddenly became useless to you? Because if so, your experience is dramatically different from my own.

 

[Steam]

It did, I think maybe you just never encountered anyone who knew what to do against it. It's a weird move, it confused people more than anything, but it was extremely vulnerable from the front and underneath.
The move isn't good anymore. It does pitiful dmg, most characters' nairs are 'get away from me' attacks, which Rosalina's fails completely at, it's slow and you can't poke shields safely with it.

I honestly can't think of one reason to use it, unless you're facing people who don't know where the hitbox is on it.

if you have luma on you he covers in front of you at the start of the move. vulnerable from underneath is irrelevant if you shorthop it. the move is still REALLY safe if spaced from SH.

 

[Iron Kraken]

if you have luma on you he covers in front of you at the start of the move. vulnerable from underneath is irrelevant if you shorthop it. the move is still REALLY safe if spaced from SH.

Just want to add that Nairing out of a short hop is how 90% of my Rosalina Nairs take place.

 

[icraq]

What I'm saying is that the move is mostly as good as it was before. Like, if before the patch Rosalina's Nair was a perfect 10, I'd give it a solid 7.5 now (ha, what a coincidence). It's still a very good attack.

But it really makes no sense when you say things like "the move isn't good anymore" and "I can't think of one reason to use it."

I mean, have you actually played a lot of matches, using Nair as you did before the patch, and found that a great move suddenly became useless to you? Because if so, your experience is dramatically different from my own.

Yeah, I've had a few problems with it, I mentioned a few of em but

1. Isn't safe (or as safe in some cases) on shield
2. Doesn't cover rolls liked it used to
3. SHFF nair doesn't have nearly enough range
4. More likely to trade hits, either because I relied on using it's disjointed properties in 1.0.3 or because it's priority was lowered

I can't think of much else, except it just doesn't feel good. Perhaps it is an exaggeration, to say it's useless, I can think of one scenario where it still works, specifically as an option to cover options if your opponent is hanging on a ledge, it still functions well to cover rolls, stand ups and jump get ups. But it doesn't cover roll as well.

Some of the issue is the removal of the head hitbox on dtilt as well. Nair to dtilt was a very safe approach, you could nair out of range of their grab and dtilt to punish a whiffed shield grab, if they rolled into you they would hit your head hitbox, and this required Luma to attack in front so the crossup doesn't apply here. This is maybe overpowered, a lot of characters dont have safe shield pokes, but safe shield pokes make the game more interesting and faster paced.

if you have luma on you he covers in front of you at the start of the move. vulnerable from underneath is irrelevant if you shorthop it. the move is still REALLY safe if spaced from SH.

Luma's coverage is so incredibly short range and short lived, by the time Luma is done attacking in front Rosalina is still at a 90 degree angle and has to moev an entire 180 degrees before there is a hitbox in front again. And yeah you could FF it before to prevent behind hit from the bottom but you still had to make that whole rotation first.

 

[NairWizard]

I understand that you guys are taking this game seriously as a competitive sport, and that's great, but you can't possibly believe that the character is now unplayably bad and that these nerfs make it impossible for you to win with her, can you?

 

[Steam]

luma's coverage is short ranged from luma, but it's really far disjointed from rosa herself. In addition if you hit the shield with luma, the hitbox rosa swings over will poke a lot of the time. And the move should still be able to cover rolls because luma covered behind after covering in front. I don't think this move lost hitboxes but if it did then good, because last patch it covered like....everything unless you had a lightning quick shorthop punish or an aerial with really good range.

 

[icraq]

I understand that you guys are taking this game seriously as a competitive sport, and that's great, but you can't possibly believe that the character is now unplayably bad and that these nerfs make it impossible for you to win with her, can you?

I don't think I said that, or anyone else for that matter. Like I said, I probably overreacted saying certain bread and butter moves were now unusable, but she's still somethin.

It's just frustrating getting such a large balance change in a game I put a lot of time into, and having a good chunk of that time being made useless.

 

[Steam]

Rosalina's nair is still really good, I just think punishing it is a little easier now so it's not so bread and butter. Which I think is a good thing because IMO bread and butters are stupid.

@Sunnysunny- come and tell them of the nair please

 

[NairWizard]

I don't think I said that, or anyone else for that matter. Like I said, I probably overreacted saying certain bread and butter moves were now unusable, but she's still somethin.

It's just frustrating getting such a large balance change in a game I put a lot of time into, and having a good chunk of that time being made useless.

That's understandable, but there are some cool new things about the character too, so on the other hand you have more to explore now.

 

[murasakiame]

So people concede that nair has been nerfed, but are now arguing that's a good thing because she was OP?? I will never ever agree with that argument. Even if it was correct in this instance, which it is not. Nair was a great move that you had to learn to deal with. Until Nintendo decided learning to adapt isn't necessary, sweetie, we'll just hold Rosalina back. The nair cannot be used in the same way due to its hitbox, damage, and knockback decreases. This is bad. Period.

While @ NairWizard keeps talking about these mythical buffs yet to materialize, here's another nerf I haven't seen anyone mention yet. It used to be that your opponent had to take great care to hit both Rosalina and Luma when attacking, because if you launched one and not the other, you would be left vulnerable to attack by the other. This was a monumentally HUGE part of Rosaluma gameplay. I have- ...excuse me, forgot for a minute that Nintendo screwed me, had a handful of replays in which I was blasting off again in the background but daired with my still active Luma, securing a kill, and ripping victory out of the jaws of defeat. These are the most dramatic instances of the mechanic, but it had functional use numerous times in every single match. This has now been stripped from the character. If Rosalina is launched and Luma is not, he will no longer stick around to counterattack and avenge Mama. Instead, he will flit away towards Rosalina to offer emotional support. I'm willing to wager this change, more than any other, but certainly in concert with them, is what made Dabuz drop this character. It is a devastating nerf. One that I feel renders her unable to keep up with top characters such as Sheik and Diddy. But, um, yeah, we can keep talking about how cool Luma Shot is now...

 

[ChikoLad]

If Rosalina is launched and Luma is not, he will no longer stick around to counterattack and avenge Mama. Instead, he will flit away towards Rosalina to offer emotional support.

Eeeeh, what? Luma still sticks around on stage when Luma is launched. It's just sort of sporadic and unclear as to what makes him stay on stage, and what makes him link back to Rosalina. This was like this pre-patch. Nothing has changed in that regard.

I also don't feel N-air was nerfed in anything other than damage. I prefer the lower knockback, and this decreased hit box people keep talking about seems like a placebo effect, because I've been hitting with it just the same as before.

So I really think there is a degree of overreacting going on here.

 

[Iron Kraken]

Just want to say I haven't noticed any decrease in Nair's range or "Luma staying around after a hit." Both seem the same to me as before, excelpt for Luma no longer being able to hit during a throwing animation.

Not confirming anything one way or another, but I haven't noticed any difference.

 

[murasakiame]

Eeeeh, what? Luma still sticks around on stage when Luma is launched. It's just sort of sporadic and unclear as to what makes him stay on stage, and what makes him link back to Rosalina. This was like this pre-patch. Nothing has changed in that regard.

if you're going to argue that i don't know what i'm talking about, at least pretend that you know what you're talking about. there is nothing sporadic or unclear, neither now nor before the patch, about luma's behavior, and you arguing such a thing makes me question your basic understanding of the character. luma's behavior is consistent. luma will stay in place if your opponent launches rosalina and misses luma. however, if you input a command to attack, luma will fly off towards rosalina to resync instead of attacking on his own like he did pre-patch. this is not opinion, people.

 

[ChikoLad]

if you're going to argue that i don't know what i'm talking about, at least pretend that you know what you're talking about. there is nothing sporadic or unclear, neither now or before the patch, about luma's behavior, and you arguing such a thing makes me question your basic understanding of the character. luma's behavior is consistent. luma will stay in place if your opponent launches rosalina and misses luma. however, if you input a command to attack, luma will fly off towards rosalina to resync instead of attacking on his own like he did pre-patch. this is not opinion, people.

And he still does that. And he still has random instances where he might go flying back to Rosalina. Keep in mind that Luma partly functions on AI, so he is open to technical hiccups like this, similar to Nana (and you not seeming to realise this makes me question whether or not YOU know what you are talking about). Other examples include not coming back when you recall him (it's rare, but I've had instances where I'd perform a recall three times in a row and he simply would not move, even though he was in a neutral position), and getting stuck against terrain (though he generally teleports back if this happens for too long).

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I've downloaded the new patch, and have spotted the following.

• Up smash truly has less knockback, as it wasn't until Mario had over 150% damage that an uncharged up smash could KO him. The Luma literally KOs things sooner with its up smash now.
• Forward throw has weaker knockback, requiring Mario to have over 250% damage to risk getting KO'd by it.
• Backward throw also has its knockback weakened, requiring Mario to take over 245% to be at risk of getting KO'd by the move.

 

[murasakiame]

And he still does that. And he still has random instances where he might go flying back to Rosalina. Keep in mind that Luma partly functions on AI, so he is open to technical hiccups like this, similar to Nana (and you not seeming to realise this makes me question whether or not YOU know what you are talking about). Other examples include not coming back when you recall him (it's rare, but I've had instances where I'd perform a recall three times in a row and he simply would not move, even though he was in a neutral position), and getting stuck against terrain (though he generally teleports back if this happens for too long).

flabbergasted. whether or not you know what you're talking about is no longer in question. you just don't. not only are we forced to grapple with these arbitrary changes, we're also left to quarrel about what has actually changed. cheers, nintendo.

dude, go and test what i'm talking about and then come back to discuss. luma does not behave "randomly."

 

[ChikoLad]

I've downloaded the new patch, and have spotted the following.

• Up smash truly has less knockback, as it wasn't until Mario had over 150% damage that an uncharged up smash could KO him. The Luma literally KOs things sooner with its up smash now.

Not true. I tested this myself, uncharged Up Smash takes 135%.

EDIT: And I just tested it 3 more times. KO'd him all three times, and the second two achieved a Star KO animation. I also KO'd Luma before doing it.

 

[Lavani]

Once again, launch speeds are your friend.

usmash: 147→136
fthrow: 108→99
bthrow: 121→110

The nerfs are real.

 

[ChikoLad]

Once again, launch speeds are your friend.

usmash: 147→136
fthrow: 108→99
bthrow: 121→110

The nerfs are real.

Oh, I know they were nerfed a bit, but the Up Smash still KOs Mario at 135% uncharged, not 150%.

That being said, the nerf to Up Smash is far from large. Especially on lighter characters.

 

[Steam]

So people concede that nair has been nerfed, but are now arguing that's a good thing because she was OP?? I will never ever agree with that argument. Even if it was correct in this instance, which it is not. Nair was a great move that you had to learn to deal with. Until Nintendo decided learning to adapt isn't necessary, sweetie, we'll just hold Rosalina back. The nair cannot be used in the same way due to its hitbox, damage, and knockback decreases. This is bad. Period.

now rosalina players get to adapt. (in theory, in reality not much has changed and she's still S tier). the point of balance changes is to balance the roster. Anyone with two eyes could see that Rosalina was easily one of the best characters in the game and baring the discovery of easy infinites on her somehow she'd stay that way.

 

[murasakiame]

now rosalina players get to adapt. (in theory, in reality not much has changed and she's still S tier). the point of balance changes is to balance the roster. Anyone with two eyes could see that Rosalina was easily one of the best characters in the game and baring the discovery of easy infinites on her somehow she'd stay that way.

rosalina was not the strongest character in the game and so that is not a justifiable reason to nerf. she was not unbalanced. i do not agree with nerfing even the strongest character in the game, something that cannot really be legitimately determined after a month and a half of play with 3ds controls. balance should be attained by buffing, not nerfing.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Not true. I tested this myself, uncharged Up Smash takes 135%.

EDIT: And I just tested it 3 more times. KO'd him all three times, and the second two achieved a Star KO animation. I also KO'd Luma before doing it.

Maybe it has to do with Mario's location? It probably does, as he was in front of Rosalina when I did the tests. I'll have to look at the situation even further.

Edit: Tested it again. I did an uncharged up smash on 130% damage Mario; he took 12% damage, and survived. Did it again on 136% damage Mario, still survived. Tried once more on 140% damage Mario, and the attack KO'd him.

Edit 2: Did another test with Mario set to jump. I did an uncharged up smash on a 131% damage Mario, and it KO'd him. Apparently, Mario gets KO'd sooner if he's airborne, but he still survived at under 140% damage.

Keep note that these tests were done with Rosalina's up smash, and NOT the Luma's up smash.

 

[Iron Kraken]

The bottom line is that with the exception of one significant buff (the distance of the Luma shot) and one minor buff (Luma's fast recall speed), most things about Rosalina has been slightly nerfed. Some things about her are unchanged but many other things have been made 10%-ish worse. But considering where she was to start with, that's totally fine, and IMO she's still easily one of the best characters in the game for competitive play.

And now that we know patches are really a thing, we should expect any character who is deemed too strong to get some nerfs in the future. So if Rosalina can escape the perception of being too strong going forward and avoid further nerfs, she'll be in good shape.

 

[ChikoLad]

Maybe it has to do with Mario's location? It probably does, as he was in front of Rosalina when I did the tests. I'll have to look at the situation even further.

Edit: Tested it again. I did an uncharged up smash on 130% damage Mario; he took 12% damage, and survived. Did it again on 136% damage Mario, still survived. Tried once more on 140% damage Mario, and the attack KO'd him.

Edit 2: Did another test with Mario set to jump. I did an uncharged up smash on a 131% damage Mario, and it KO'd him. Apparently, Mario gets KO'd sooner if he's airborne, but he still survived at under 140% damage.

Keep note that these tests were done with Rosalina's up smash, and NOT the Luma's up smash.

Yes, I am testing with Rosalina's Up Smash (I KO Luma before doing it). Uncharged Up Smash KOs Mario at 135%, from neutral position (I have him set to Stop).

I'll even upload a video if you aren't getting the same results and want to see.