1.0.4 Changes and also apologies - LUMA CAN STILL HIT WHEN GRABBED

[ChikoLad]

After the nerfs, I'm actually pretty happy with where Rosalina is (post patch, playing on Wii U).

For example, there's now (IMO) real incentive to going after Luma. How do R&L mains feel, and are you finding it tougher?

Not really finding it tougher. Whenever someone goes after Luma, I punish them for it with dash attack or with some kind of string.

 

[Fox McCl0ud]

I think some of the nerfs were justified. She did out-prioritize much of the cast and she is still a really good character.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

@ icraq is this the tip you saw?

Luma's Reactions: When Luma is next to Rosalina, it starts dancing if she grabs an opponent. When she gets hurt, you can see it flailing its little arms in panic!

 

[icraq]

@ icraq is this the tip you saw?

Yep, jeez. That's certainly it. It's funny though, I was half right, still, despite being wrong about the tip. I knew there was something off with throws and controlling Luma though, turns out they just removed Luma control mid hitstun. To my credit at least, I wasn't the only person in the room who interpreted the message that way, though I was certainly the one at fault to report it to the interwebs.

Something else I've noticed, despite common belief, is pummeling will still prevent her from controlling Luma, to a certain degree, she is considered in hitstun when being pummeled, but once the pummel ends she can still input Luma commands if there's enough time.

 

[Iron Kraken]

I still have no idea what in the heck people are talking about with Nair being a useless move after the nerf. Like, what the heck? It's still an incredibly useful move. Despite the fact that it does 1/2.5% less damage, despite the fact that it kills at a much later %, despite the fact that its hitbox was slightly decreased. It still works basically the same.

I approach with it all the freakin' time and rarely ever get punished with it. You just have to learn how to take advantage of all its properties. For example, pulling back mid-Nair and baiting your opponent into punishing you when they can't, and then taking advantage of it and punishing them. There are so many mind games you can use with Nair.

Also, know which characters you shouldn't use Nair to approach with too much. Mainly, that's Shulk (because of his Fair), Ike (because of his Fair), and Yoshi (because of his eggs).

Basically it's still my primary approach option, and I'm having just as much success with it as I was having before.

I'll say it again, I feel like the Rosalina nerfs were justified and I have no problem with them. Luma being able to attack in hitstun was BS, IMO. Now I feel like I deserve it more when I win with Rosalina & Luma... and she's still one of the strongest characters in the game.

Hopefully, Rosalina already had her share of nerfs. I'm assuming we're going to get at least 1 more balance patch in the future (we already know DLC is being worked on, after all), and I think we can say confidently that Diddy Kong at least will be nerfed. So as long as Rosalina stays like she is now, she should be in good shape.

 

[icraq]

despite the fact that its hitbox was slightly decreased. It still works basically the same.

it's not that simple, though. it had a disjointed hitbox that extended beyond her hurtbox before and now it doesn't, that's a big deal. that means when you trade hits with someone, you always get hit, whereas before you could outspace your opponent's attacks with her nair and that is entirely impossible now. also, shff nair covered rolls toward you, but now that is also impossible due to the smaller (or lack thereof) hitbox on her butt.

this might be an exaggeration (for some, not for me) but, imagine if you landed 10 nairs in a match. lets ignore move deterioration, and just add up how much damage is lost. that's 25% lost, and if you consider most characters are in kill zone around 100% that's increasing a quarter of a stock's life, and in a 2 stock match that's a significant amount. i can't say which ones for certain but i know there's some projectiles rosalina can no longer negate with nair now, too, due to the lower damage. this is on top of rosalina's overall kill potential being nerfed all around, usmash more notable but fsmash as well.

the knockback is now worse than luma's initial little poke in the beginning of the nair. it's hilarious. you can kill like 30% sooner just with luma's little tiny poke. also, this doesn't just affect just it's killing power but also it's ability to get the opponent off the edge, which obviously is a big deal. how many kills do you get with rosalina off the edge? i get at least 50% of mine from dair/whatever once a person is knocked off. this scenario is set up far less often. i can't come up with any numbers except 'a lot %'.

rosalina's neutral game now is so meh. what options do you have other than to just shoot luma out? luma is like an annoying bug that gets out prioritized like it's nobody's business, and if you send luma out you're risking losing your most valuable defensive and offensive asset. are you going to dash attack? that move, if shielded, is incredibly punishable. star bits? again, laggy and easily punished on shield. rosalina's one move that is almost safe on shield is dtilt, and now it can be rolled into and punished.

now i think in high level play rosalina's #1 neutral game is defense. this sucks in a lot of situations. nair has two uses i'd say, and that's retreating sh nair (in some MUs) and covering jump/stand up on ledge getup. as an approach it's just not worth using. it's unreliable to sh nair in place. shff nair is garbs in general. rosalina has no combo breaker move, either, she never did, but i felt nair's strength overrode the need for one of those 'get off me' attacks.

something else, i'm exploring other options. autocanceled luma stuff might be the answer for an aggressive rosa but i can't say. sh dair is purdy good for getting easy autocancels. but i dunno.