ZSS General Discussion

[Player-1]

Not going cuz ur scared of me obv.


I'd infinite you first neway.

 

[Dakpo]

Not going cuz ur scared of me obv.
.

lol yup. I didn't know how to cope with my fear of you, 2good

 

[Player-1]

I get that a lot, but it's okay. As long as your body's self defenses kick in and you just repress how much I'd wreck you then it'll all be good.

 

[Dakpo]

its sad to see yours not kicking in

 

[Player-1]

what am I not repressing?

 

[Dakpo]

The delete button after you type such rubbish posts on our boards

 

[Player-1]

that didn't even make sense, and you call my post rubbish? Wait. Who the **** even uses the word rubbish except for Brits? Brits are bad.

 

[Dakpo]

Brits are bad...<--(doesn't actually know of any players from Brittan)

 

[Player-1]

I'm not talking about smash bros bro

 

[NickRiddle]

Dakpo, stop feeding the stupid trolls, please.

 

[Zero]

times like this are when this forum needs mods.

 

[Player-1]

Dakpo, stop feeding the stupid trolls, please.

his cooking is bad.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

times like this are when this forum needs mods.

I'm down.

yeeee boi

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=13825129#post13825129

So hey

i got first in my pool

am i good yet?

Spoiler

no iu'm not... because i got 7th

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Good stuff Ryan, if I didn't already tell you that.............. which I did.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Thanks dtorr.

Though i lost to ed in bracket, he went zelda on me O.o

I beat his shiek 2-0 but not his zelda?

wtf.

And then i lost to d3.

Seemingly i lost because i don't camp enough? Can anyone link me good d3 matches?
Idk how to play it.


I did better with puff.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

I might have to apologize for that. Ed played alot of games with me after pools with Zelda.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Ah.
He obv just wanted to salty runback me in bracket. Not your fault bro.

Dtorr, i don't like to see you so discouraged. You're the player i look up to the most in this community, and when you get discouraged at tourney because your playstyle doesn't work, it's the same thing as falling off the horse, as so to speak.

just get back on man.

 

[infiniteV115]

Hey guys. I was brushing up on my platform cancelling in training mode because I hadn't played for a while and I started mixing up the inputs to try to come up with different outputs. Don't know if you know this already, but we can platform cancel-->dsmash.

The inputs are a little weird, but not difficult. Basically it's
-Jump into platform while holding down on analog stick
-Hit up on c-stick (this does the actual platform cancel)
-A (dsmash)

Basically, you're sliding your thumb from the C-stick to the A button. Alternatively, you can set one of the shoulder buttons to attack to make it less awkward, or claw. If you're using the Wiimote then lol2bad

 

[Dakpo]

Hey guys. I was brushing up on my platform cancelling in training mode because I hadn't played for a while and I started mixing up the inputs to try to come up with different outputs. Don't know if you know this already, but we can platform cancel-->dsmash.

The inputs are a little weird, but not difficult. Basically it's
-Jump into platform while holding down on analog stick
-Hit up on c-stick (this does the actual platform cancel)
-A (dsmash)

Basically, you're sliding your thumb from the C-stick to the A button. Alternatively, you can set one of the shoulder buttons to attack to make it less awkward, or claw. If you're using the Wiimote then lol2bad

lol2bad XD

 

[NickRiddle]

Hey guys. I was brushing up on my platform cancelling in training mode because I hadn't played for a while and I started mixing up the inputs to try to come up with different outputs. Don't know if you know this already, but we can platform cancel-->dsmash.

The inputs are a little weird, but not difficult. Basically it's
-Jump into platform while holding down on analog stick
-Hit up on c-stick (this does the actual platform cancel)
-A (dsmash)

Basically, you're sliding your thumb from the C-stick to the A button. Alternatively, you can set one of the shoulder buttons to attack to make it less awkward, or claw. If you're using the Wiimote then lol2bad

I'm way too used to platform-cancelling to buffer a run or fall through to ever do this.
inb4NRnodsmash?!

 

[infiniteV115]

I am disappoint, Nick.
Oh, keep in mind that you should still be holding down when you press A. Obviously it won't do the dsmash without a downward input.

Uh, I don't know what you mean by buffering a run, but if you hold diagonally down+forward and press up on the C-stick to platform cancel, it will automatically run for you. Is that what you meant?
It sucks that it doesn't work backwards

More stuff

PC into dtilt
Hold down, press up on C-stick, press down on C-stick
Alternatively, hold down, press shield, press down on c-stick immediately afterwards (this one has harder timing imo)

PC into running grab/pivot grab
Hold down, press up on C-stick, press Z (then back on C-stick for pivot grab)

PC into fsmash (lol)
Same as what I mentioned for dsmash, but hold diagonally down and forward instead of just down

 

[DeLux]

I am glad to see people advocating PCing with Uair inputs now :D

If I see someone use Dair anymore, I'm going to be salty

although infinitev115, you need to hit back on cstick before you hit grab, and you need to hit grab within 3 or 5 frames of hitting the cstick depending on the character to pivot grab.

 

[infiniteV115]

..Are you sure? Every time I pivot grab, I press grab, THEN press back on C-stick...or I think I do :\
And wouldn't hitting back on C-stick input a dash attack...you know, cause you're dashing and then inputting A?

 

[DeLux]

You might be pressing it simultaneously, but pressing grab first would initiate a dash grab.

The whole dash grab thing is circumvented for some reason by the within 3-5 frame window I mentioned. I think it has something to do with Dash Attack Cancelling properties.

I am 99% sure you want to press cstick back and then grab in that order given I throw that work that option all day when I play like it's my job.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I use Bair as my my PC input.

 

[Dakpo]

I am glad to see people advocating PCing with Uair inputs now :D

If I see someone use Dair anymore, I'm going to be salty

although infinitev115, you need to hit back on cstick before you hit grab, and you need to hit grab within 3 or 5 frames of hitting the cstick depending on the character to pivot grab.

shlike X10 XD

 

[NickRiddle]

I use Bair as my my PC input.

100 of these.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

If I see someone use Dair anymore, I'm going to be salty

I guess you'll stay salty at me then.

 

[infiniteV115]

ZSS MU changes from last chart

Better
-2 --> -1
-1 --> 0
0 --> +1

Worse
0 --> -1
+1 --> 0

Thoughts?
I don't know why Oli changed to -1, but I don't have an opinion on it cause I have very little experience in that MU and I've never seen it in top level play...though I do personally have trouble with it.

Same goes for TL, except for the part where I have trouble with it, cause I have absolutely no experience in that MU

I very strongly agree with Marth being even, I think it's one of the most even non-ditto MUs in the game.
Falco and G&W I understand to some extent.

I think Snake and Wario should be even, not -1.

 

[Dakpo]

why in the world did Tl go from +1 to 0????????????

 

[DeLux]

For what it's worth, even though I'm nowhere near a high level ZSS, I have gotten to play some two players that are extremely high level TL's and Olimars.

I don't understand what to do with ZSS against Olimar and it seems worse than -1, but I figure -1 would account for the skill gap. TL is much more intuitive a matchup, but if the TL is good at working OoS playing close range and our spacing is a hair off on moves, we can get punished heavily. I don't know if I would call it even though.

 

[DeLux]

Double Posting because Dakpo PM'd me:

ZSS's Out of Shield Options:

Spot Dodge: Frame 1 Invc, Frame 25 FAF
F-Roll: Frame 4 Inv, Frame 27 FAF
B-Roll: Frame 4 Inv, Frame 37 FAF
Plasma Wire: Frame 6 Ground Hitbox
Flip Jump: Frame 6-17 Intangible.
Shield Drop: Frame 7 FAF
Shield Drop > Jab: Frame 8 Hitbox
JC Usmash: Frame 9 Hitbox
Buffer Uair: Frame 9 Hitbox
Shield Drop > Utilt: Frame 10 Hitbox
Fair: Frame 11 hitbox
Shield Drop > Dtilt: Frame 12 Hitbox
Bair: Frame 13 hitbox
Shield Drop > Dash Attack: Frame 13 Hitbox
Shield Drop > Ftilt: Frame 13 hitbox
Nair: Frame 15 hitbox
Grab: Frame 16 hitbox
Dair: Frame 19 hitbox
SH Paralyzer: Frame 26 hitbox
Shield Drop > Dsmash: Frame 27 hitbox
F Roll > Jab: Frame 28 Hitbox
Shielddrop > Fsmash: Frame 29 hitbox
SH Plasma Whip: Frame 29 hitbox (weak)

I based the specials off of your guy's frame data thread from SMP. The rest I did math for assuming 7 frames of shield drop and 5 frames of jump squat. I want to double check Plasma Wire's frame data because it says frame 1 on the thread, but that would mean it has a hitbox out as fast as spot dodge is invincible.

Edit: Yikarur says frame 6

Note: My stipulation if any of these being off a frame or two is that I can't read or add lol

 

[NickRiddle]

why in the world did Tl go from +1 to 0????????????

Because my opinion isn't everything.
I might have put him as 0 too... I don't remember.
If it was up to me... haha... this chart would be so funny.
Also, Snake should be 0, but I'm too lazy to give a ****.

 

[infiniteV115]

Not like TL matters anyway, he doesn't really exist.

 

[NickRiddle]

So, turns out Snakei s actually +1 to ZSS.

Next time, I'm going to argue for stupid ratios, so they compromise with real ones.

Luigi -4.
Snake -2.
TL -2.

Man, I would change SO MUCH on that chart. XD
In fact...

NickRiddle's MU Opinions!

-1 -
0 - /
+1 -
+2 -
+3 -
+4 -


So, the computer I'm using doesn't make this any better...
It's messing up three names on it's own...

 

[infiniteV115]

That's the spirit Nick.
You should also argue that the ditto is -2 for the bright blue ZSS.

 

[NickRiddle]

That's the spirit Nick.
You should also argue that the ditto is -2 for the bright blue ZSS.

Green-Yellow ZSS wins the ditto +1.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Next time, I'm going to argue for stupid ratios, so they compromise with real ones.

This.

Wario's just stubborned us to death.
Snake's just assumed advantage.

Diddy is kinda dumb looking back at it, but whatevs

 

[Dakpo]

Dakpo's MU Opinions!

-2 -
- 1
- 0
+1 - /
+2 -
+3 -
+4 -