ZSS and Game and Watches Bucket Stategy.

[KnightMare516]

LOL this is a pic of his melee bucket but Whatever LOL

Alright, i am a pretty well know host for smash around the Tristate and i hosted a tourney named GIMPED 1 on Feb 21st. There is discussion of banning a tactic known as EXTREMELY gay and i just wanna bring it to everyone's attention. The people using this technique that i know are WES and DIRE and i just want everyone to know i don't think it should be banned but i must admit it is extremely gay.

The only reason i am even making this a thread is because the discussion has gone in so many other thread that it don't belong in so here is the official thread for discussion on this topic and whether it should be up for ban or not. You have to think tho, what are the REAL stats of this move and what is the real deal.

1. the buckets splash has INCREDIBLE RANGE.
2. it breaks shields and then hits them after it breaks shields which makes it nearly unblockable
3. ZSS's downsmash is the strongest energy that goes into the bucket.
4. ZSS's downsmash stuns the person for free hits on the bucket.
5. game and watch can bucket the downsmash without getting affected as long as he hold out down b which keeps him in range to hit the opponent with the bucket splash.
6. game and watches bucket GOES THRU THE EDGE which allows for continuous edge camping (this can always be stopped)
7. The bucket is NEVER used besides when using this tactic so it would affect anything else.

HERE IS A VIDEO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bLsre7dGwM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifeMYXSj-NI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhqtIrdRZ8o

If you have any other videos of this broken tactic then post the link in here LOL.

 

[Cia]

i think more people should use this team. everytime i've teamed w/ a GaW, we *****. but that was sooo long ago.

lolz

 

[cutter]

Why should something be banned if it has PROVEN not to be broken? Things should only be banned when they legitimately overcentralize and stagnate the metagame so the entire game is basically all about "do this or lose". We have not seen people flock to the G&W/ZSS team combo.

It is simply a very good strategy and it is part of the reason why G&W is arguably THE best character in doubles.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Replacing Zero Suit Samus with Pikachu works just as well really. Pikachu's a little slower but can fill the bucket from great distances. The bucket maxes out relatively easily so it's not a unique ability of Zero Suit Samus to give a max strength Oil Panic (with Pikachu, Thunder and the aerial/short range Thunder Jolt give instant death powers while the long range Thunder Jolt isn't quite good enough but still very powerful).

 

[ch33s3]

It's a stupid strategy, it's annoying as hell, but it's not banworthy.

 

[-dMT-]

Gay technique?
Sure is.
Does it constitute a ban?
No it doesn't. Props to Wes and Dire for using it well. Many teams have used this strategy before, myself included, and it isn't unbeatable, does not centralize the metagame to significantly increase the amount of people using this strategy, and even with its careful use in this tournament, Wes and Dire still did not take Doubles.

If it is being argued that this technique should be banned, MetaKnight should have already been banned, and Snake should be up for discussion for at least a soft ban.

 

[KnightMare516]

It's a stupid strategy, it's annoying as hell, but it's not banworthy.

for once i completely agree with cheese

 

[Stev]

The only reason it should be banned is if we all start seeing this combo in doubles and nothing else

 

[DAlegendarysamus]

Knightmare Why Would You Make A Thread If You Dont Care And Dont Think It Should Be Banned. I Think Its Bs You Just Dont Want Ur Hands To Be Dirty Or Held Accountable For It Being Banned. Cause Ur Just Going To Be Like "see Wes And Dire I Said Its Not Banworthy". But Yet You Make A Thread Lol Nice Try.

 

[pockyD]

i think ike's fully charged neutral B is too strong

 

[Jam Stunna]

Are Brawl players on a quest to ban everything?

I'm not being facetious, I really want to know.

 

[Shiri]

Dear Deadly Alliance,

Please stop exploiting successful tactics. It ruins things for the rest of us by getting them banned. At least let some other crew use these solid techniques so that the techniques won't be brought up for banishment.

Kisses,
The Management

 

[Ruuku]

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifeMYXSj-NI&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhqtIrdRZ8o&feature=channel_page

This is nothing new and this isn't overpowered or ban worthy.

 

[BUM163]

take this thread out already. if this should be banned...... mk should be banned wayyyyyyyyyyyy before this. this requires two people in which they have to be together to make it work.... and the team has to make sure they don't hit themselves with the bucket.

metaknight is a one man army who has

5 jumps

4 different recoveries which is down b, up b, side b, neutral b

almost every move comes out extremely fast

has gimps whether going up or killing them with up b

invinciblity with neutral b and side b

infinite against a wall with down tilt

glide with a glide attack that kills at a good percentage

glide cancels

up kill throw at a good percentage

down throw to a follow up tornado or whatever he wants

all throws does 10 plus damage

neutral air kills at a good percentage

down air and up air comes out extremely fast with lil lag to it

down smash is extremely smash and strong at the back side and can kill if not d.i right

foward smash is a lil slow to start, but has alot of range and even hits from behind

the character is small so alot of attacks go over him and not to mention he is fast.


so before banning a bucket..... mk would have to be banned first. the bucket is stoppable especially if only one person is left. just play a good stragety and do your best to keep with it.

 

[KnightMare516]

yo i just wanted the discussion out of my results thread idc about this at all dude delete the topic if u want just dont discuss it in GIMPED 1 result thread kthnx

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

*starts using g&w for teams*

 

[Mew2King]

the bucket strategy is definitely more broken than MK. MK is like Melee Sheik or Melee Fox, just really good overall but at least he fights you instead of tries to cheese you and win without skill being the determining factor, while the bucket strategy is more broken than Rest in teams and relies not on skill but on being lame. Only time MK relies on being "lame" is tornadoing big characters, but most of those big characters have the ADVANTAGE against MK should MK not use his tornado. Just the way Brawl works.

 

[Deleted member]

the GAW is harmless when empty! gang **** the samus!

no really ZSS has lots of holes to her approach and defense game. she's a great character but she has holes.

wes/jonathan/other DA house me for alukard's melee tournament please.

 

[GimR]

Luigi and G&W is also an amazing team. Luigi's fireballs are almost as powerful as Zss' D-smash. also, Luigi's Neutral B has very small cool down and since it's a projectile it can go far accross the stage so it's really hard to punish.

 

[-dMT-]

Naaahh...MetaKnight is just broken. Simple as that. If at least 1 technique that stops that masked spammer is not discovered soon (and I mean something that really, really puts a stop to his rampage)... he will be (or at least should be) banned.

As it has been repeated numerous times before, something that over centralizes the metagame is noteworthy for a ban. MK is easily headed there. More and more people are picking him up. Almost all tourneys being won by a MK isn't annoying enough compared to the fact that half the people at a tourney will be using him.

Then you realize people who were decent one week pick up MK and reach a whole new level the following week. Every character had to first learn the vs MK matchup, seriously, that means something.

Then Tier List 2 comes out, gives Snake his OWN tier list and calls it S Tier. But hold your horses, there's yet ANOTHER one man army tier above him, in SS Tier. If that isn't some BS, idk what is. SBR did it right though, it really does show how it is.

I've heard the MK comparison to Melee Sheik and Fox before. Seriously, that argument doesn't hold anymore. Different game, different mechanics. Sheik didn't have 4 ways to recover, all of them with invincibility frames. She had one-one recovery that could be forced to land on the stage with an edgehog, and then punished...repeatedly. That's just recovery.

Give Melee Sheik multiple jumps, a sword, 4 recoveries, 3 of them being stupid good, even less lag on aerials, gliding coupled with a glide attack, and a throw that ca actually kill at reasonable %, and you have MK.

^ That's a mouthful ^. Just to try to argue that MK does not hurt the balance of this game, is to ignore anything and everything that happens at a tourney.

Cmon M2K. Even you use MK. You know you use him cause he's the best. Nothing against that, just don't argue he's balanced even more than a bucket strategy that managed to display it is viable at a large scale tourney for the first time. MKs have been taking tourneys for so long, let the bucket strategy get 3rd place once, and we have broken. Yerriiiiiiite.

 

[Master Raven]

Then you realize people who were decent one week pick up MK and reach a whole new level the following week.

I've never actually seen this in action before.

Cmon M2K. Even you use MK. You know you use him cause he's the best.

No he uses MK 'cause he's the most fun, and I don't even think MK was considered the best at the time M2K started to use him anyway.

 

[-dMT-]

I've never actually seen this in action before.

Look harder. Perhaps it's hard to see when your looking from the perspective OF a MK main. I see it time and time again. Including at GIMPED.

No he uses MK 'cause he's the most fun, and I don't even think MK was considered the best at the time M2K started to use him anyway.

Yea. DDD was the **** back then. Wait, who did M2K use back then again?... >_>

Look, I understand this all too well. I mained Sheik in Melee. As you can expect, people did not hold back on their comments calling me a tier-***** or whatnot...saying I used Sheik just because she was top tier and 'broken.' It's Brawl, Sheik is 1 spot above low tier, and I still main her. I mained Sheik because I liked the feel to her character, and just how she moved; she was fun.

Are there people who main MK because of the same reasons, because he's fun and just feels good to them?...Sure there are. Denying that would be ignorant.

However, it is JUST as ignorant to think people do not use him JUST because of his tier; ESPECIALLY M2K.

No amount of words uttered by anyone, even M2K himself, can convince me otherwise. He uses Marth, Sheik, Fox in Melee. He used DDD in Brawl and is now exclusively MK, because when a character is good enough to have his own tier why bother with any others.

M2K doesn't use MK because MK is fun, he uses MK because MK increases his chances of winning by a LARGE amount, when coupled with his experience and skills in Smash, and M2K likes to win.

I have nothing against any player for using a top tier character. People go to tourneys to win. Some just wanna win, and some wanna do it repping a character. To each his own. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

The problem occurs when you try to use a top tier character that is broken, or at least borderline broken, and then also try to benefit from 'low-tier johns,' as I call them, and argue that your character isn't really broken, but quite balanced. We're adults here right? Let's cut the BS lol

 

[KevinM]

It took 10 posts before this turned into screw the bucket lets ban metaknight.. congrats guys.