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ZGD: Livin by a thread.

Alacion

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Hm I finally got around to watching the Nintendo Direct... a few thoughts:

-Rosalina seems very overpowered, though perhaps difficult to use effectively.
-I see a lot of camping against Little Mac.
-I think Wii Fit Trainer is overhyped.
-Not sure what to think about MegaMan... that Leaf Guard seems like Link's shield but better.
-I think Sheik will stay as strong/weak as she was in Brawl. Sheik in Melee is OP and will never return to that state.
-I think I saw Peach with a re-buffed double jump.

I'm worried about Zelda still. Her down b doesn't seem that great to me and she is still fundamentally... not so great.
 

Rizen

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and the Fact there are not more transforming characters (seriously, what was wrong with them other than people being dumb to shift (and no balancing patches)?)
For example, PT had an annoying fatigue problem. A sadly effective strategy to beat the pokemon was to run away or plank until the fatigue kicked in, which lowers damage, hitstun and power of attacks. Even when PT had the lead running from them was a good strat :(

In cases like Zelda/Sheik or PT's 3 pokemon they were meant to be used together but that left imbalances like Zelda being a glass cannon with no real approach or Sheik having no good way to fight ICs (so I've read). The pokemon often had a fatal weak link in their chain, usually Ivy.
 

FujintalksboutDin'sFire

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I guess I'm the only one other than Kyoko that is bummed that Z/S arent together anymore.
I actually wanted a smash game where they were BOTH competent and you could use them back and forth in one match without one being severely over shadowed by the other.
Zelda not being able to go Sheik seems a lot less appealing, that was one thing that made her super unique and they took it away, kinda scared for her tbh......

Euax well.

Some things to point out though.

Ledge canceling Farore's is back, and it looks like it's possibly doable from an upward angle this time?
It's hard to tell though.
She does look faster maybe?
But that could just be that the game is faster in general.

I was hyped for Zelda till we only got like 15 seconds lol.
Phantom looks like it could be much needed, granted it doesn't have a billion frames of ending lag.
Seems very linear though.
But if she can move after it that could make her camping game significantly better.

 

ぱみゅ

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I mean, in general.
The sole idea of transforming, what was wrong with that?

Allow transformations, that can make character(s) unique. And now that you're working on it, fix the balance problems.



EDIT:
YES SIS, you're the only one to understand me ♥
 
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Kataefi

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This is all speculation BUT the phantom looks like it could just be airdodged. Nothing tricky. It reminds me of din's fire in a way - I mean it's another controllable projectile that leaves her vulnerable during use >__> urgh... Would be interesting to see how it'd look like in the air and whether she can control the direction of the phantom.

That teleport recovery tho...
 
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FujintalksboutDin'sFire

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Now sis do NAWT jinx us like that







Though to tbh I'm kinda thinking the same thing.
like it looks super easy to dodge and if they're getting rid of Sheik she's gonna need a LOT more than this to not be bad again
It just looks really linear, it looks like it only goes in a straight line and you have to charge it so it's easy to super see coming and dodge.

As far as defense goes, if they just made Nayru's live less laggy that would have worked for defense.
The Phantom only stays out like 3 seconds, I was kinda hoping you could summon it and it would maybe act like a walking shield/protector and attack enemies when they came near it, that way Zelda could stay close to it for safety.

But it can be reflected, smh

I'm kinda scared now
Thanks Keatifae

 

KayLo!

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It's sad that I'd be excited if Zelda was even just plain ol' low tier. Anything but bottom of the barrel garbage tier, pleaaaase. :urg:
 

ぱみゅ

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inb4 Aerial Phantom Knight will make her freefall too.
Don't allow my words to become true :c
 

Alacion

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I wonder if Zelda's down b will put an end to projectile campers and if it can even compete with Din's Fire. The start-up for Phantom Slash looks awful.

Also, I noticed Zelda is the only character who didn't get a caption when they were introduced.

eg. Sheik appears on the scene... ZSS zeroes in.
 
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KuroganeHammer

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doesn't matter, up b looks significantly faster to the point where I no longer have to spend 80% of the match pressing up be to recover.
 

Alacion

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I'm almost looking forward to seeing a competitive Smash 4 community form in Vancouver. Lots to discover and we can't let the newbie Zeldas outshine us :p
 

KayLo!

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Also, I noticed Zelda is the only character who didn't get a caption when they were introduced.
Nah, Kirby, Pit, and maybe a couple others didn't either.... it's because they were already revealed. Still sad she didn't get one though. :(
 
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Alacion

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Omg Rizen I heard the song on the radio and the lyrics resonate so well with Zelda's current viability and our hopes for her in Smash 4!
 

KayLo!

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Zelda didn't get a caption because she was a returning fighter. But I do admit that Charizard got a caption and he/she is in the same returning situation as Zelda :/
It's not that she's a vet, it's that she'd already been confirmed on the roster via the Smash site. The 5 new additions (ZSS, Sheik, Yoshi, Charizard, and Greninja) all got taglines.
 

Rizen

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@ Kaylo, yeah, you're right.
Omg Rizen I heard the song on the radio and the lyrics resonate so well with Zelda's current viability and our hopes for her in Smash 4!
I know what you mean. I have a song like that for Link. I'll use it if I ever get around to making a combo video of him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGeq5v7L3WM
"
Say "keep within the boundaries if you want to play."
Say "contradiction only makes it harder."
How can I be
What I want To be?
When all I want to do is strip away
These stilled constraints
And crush this charade
Shred this sad masquerade
I don't need no persuading
I'll trip, fall, pick myself up and
Walk unafraid
I'll be clumsy instead
Hold my love or leave me high.
"
 

BJN39

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So yeah, that customize-able specials feature. I hope that some of Zelda's customs are more helpful. >,< Also, during the 3ds "smash run" footage, Zedla uses a din's fire, and it looks huge at no distance. Probably not a buff we'd aim for, but hey...
It also kinda looked like it channeled faster, but that was probably just me.

Farore's definitely got faster startup no doubt. The distance though, did it seem slightly smaller?

Also, with Phantom being revealed, the only big mystery is Nayru. We've gotten absolutely NO footage of it. Crossing my fingers for a better move, even if it's still Nayru's Love.

Also, again, people don't seem to realize that the vortex part of the phantom startup can likely be skipped at no charge, making it very fast at close range. There were also THREE different types of slashes made by the phantom during the new move's intro.
 

Kataefi

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I bet Farore's distance is affected by customisation. Fast/Short-range vs Slow/Long-ranged... Makes sense :chuckle:

In fact looking at Mario's fireball, I've got a feeling that's how it'll work fundamentally across most specials!

Also I secretly want Nayru's to become a chargeable reflector (like the way samus/lucario charge their projectile except it's a reflector that twirls around her. Basically gardevoir's shield that lasts longer the more it's charged). Cool anti-projectile tool imo!
 

Alacion

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I would like the love jump to be back, though I still never understood what caused it to exist in the first place.

After playing Zelda a lot in Melee... I just feel everything about Melee Zelda is better than Brawl Zelda except for smash attacks.
 

BJN39

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I would like the love jump to be back, though I still never understood what caused it to exist in the first place.

After playing Zelda a lot in Melee... I just feel everything about Melee Zelda is better than Brawl Zelda except for smash attacks.
Well in melee, one thing she had that brawl Zelda didn't is a few less frames of duration on like a bunch of her moves. (Ftilt, Utilt, Dsmash, Usmash, NAir, FAir, BAir. But Brawl has faster Jab and Dtilt.) It's a shame they were removed from Brawl.

Basically 90% of her moves kill like, 30% earlier in Brawl, and have way more range, but are (mostly) a few frames slower. (These things just don't matter though when there's no real hitstun or shield lag.)

Honestly if there had been no hit-stun cancelling, Zelda could be mid-tier. (Combos into LK or UAir ftw!)

That's another reason to have hope she could be better in Smash 4, which seems to have no hitstun cancelling.
 
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Alacion

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That's all in theory but nobody crouch cancels in Brawl and the lack of freeze frames on sweetspot kicks makes for bad DI. Those alone cause Zelda to be way better plus kicks are easier to land and there's barely any staling. There are better combos and Zelda can actually edgeguard.

You won't ever see Zelda kill with a lightning kick at 60% in Brawl. I need a Brawl tournament soon to unrust my Zelda though!
 
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Alacion

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Yeah for sure! I have seen Kie crouch cancel to tech though the timing in Brawl is very picky. I really miss the days when somebody would post a vid here and I'd secretly be in fanboy mode :(

I'm itching to play Brawl but the scene is dead! While there's always Melee, my "success" in it is mostly in part to Brawl (though that might be because I've always played floaties) and Brawl is what started everything. There's no way I could ever have gotten 7th (so close to 5th!) in a Melee tournament with our top PR members attending playing 100% Zelda without Brawl in the short span of time that I have been playing Melee (and Brawl). :) Melee players are appreciating Zelda too! I think BC is fairly respected/well known in the Melee community... far more so than our Brawl community which I think is underestimated. Big D is definitely the unknown hero of Western Canada.

There's a P:M tournament tomorrow but I'm not going. I just can't bring myself to enjoy the game. Brawl > Project Melee.
 
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Rizen

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^P:M, Melee and Brawl are all good in their own ways but there seem to be a lot of haters who think everyone should play one and not the others, like P:M and not Brawl. I'm waiting for SSB4 and don't want to take the time to relearn Melee or learn P:M. SSB4 wifi looks like it might actually be legit (a hush falls over the audience). People should be free to just play what they want.

Crouch canceling is used to jab cancel by some characters. It works but it's character dependent. Am I thinking of the same thing other people are, lol?
 

Alacion

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I think the biggest conflict between the games is Melee vs Brawl but players should give both games a chance, or at the very least give them the respect they deserve. P:M seems to be a fair balance between the two. Melee has such a steep learning curve... it is not the most accessible game. Of course, Melee is a game where a certain Peach can 4 stock certain a certain tropical fruit multiple times even though those two hands down were near equal in skill at their prime. There is so much frustration for newbies because things you want to do don't happen because of how technical some things are. The pressure from better players is insane and it seems impossible that you will ever improve. I have never faced pressure like Melee's in Brawl... especially when shielding is not as safe as it is in Brawl. As long as you keep a good attitude, you'll improve over time! I thought I'd NEVER get wavedashing down but over time it came.

I'm afraid when I play Brawl next, I'll be excessively shielding and l-cancelling. Zelda is one of the few characters in Melee that still shields a lot... and light shielding is a blessing for her. Because she's so light, up throw to up air from Fox doesn't work :) I definitely think everybody should try Melee... it'll help you in all smash games.

I am excited about SSB4 minus the controller! I have never even touched a Wii U but I'm just too used to a GC controller. I really hope a community can form in BC. I never played a smash game competitively since its release, so I am looking forward to hopefully contribute to pushing Zelda's metagame!

I don't think "crouch cancelling" exists in Brawl since CC-ing reduces knockback and that doesn't occur in Brawl? (Somebody will have to clear this up) It may just be downward DI instead. I think jab cancelling occurs by quickly tapping down which resets the jab back to jab1? Not that Zelda can do that, haha.

Does P:M l-cancel for you automatically?
 
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#HBC | Scary

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it doesn't.

The peeps down here in SFL want me to play P:M really bad. REALLY BAD lol. I really don't wanna pick it up seriously. That'd require me to hack my wii lmao.

I will see if I can get some vids from next weekend since I got a brawl tourney on the 19th. See if I can try to awaken fanboy mode Aleate lol.
 

Alacion

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BJN39

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it doesn't.

The peeps down here in SFL want me to play P:M really bad. REALLY BAD lol. I really don't wanna pick it up seriously. That'd require me to hack my wii lmao.

I will see if I can get some vids from next weekend since I got a brawl tourney on the 19th. See if I can try to awaken fanboy mode Aleate lol.
You can actually use a "hackless" method via SD card. You just need to make sure you don't have any custom stages on your SSBB data when trying to launch P:M. (It launches through the custom stage menu. What I did was get 2 SD cards. One for P:M, one for my stages.) You can even save your P:M replay/picture data on the same card! They even have a wifi safe option.

I'd love seeing you wreck people in P:M, you are like, one of my favorite Brawl players. If you ever decide to play P:M, or P:M Zelda, I'll welcome you with open arms. ;)
 
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#HBC | Scary

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That makes me blush a little @ BJN39 BJN39 , thanks!

Perhaps I'll play a little more and see if it grows on me. So I need to either acquire an SD card with said stuff or an SD card reader to put the stuff together myself lol.
 

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FINALLY I get to post - my stupid internet has been derping constantly lately, and ever since Nintendo Direct, I've been looking forward to seeing what people were saying about it. I know I'm very late on the bandwagon here, but I'll go ahead and express my thoughts:

I'm probably one of the few people here who is happy with Zelda and Sheik being separate characters. I'll explain why. But first, I want to say that the concept of having the option to transform into another character is interesting, as Fujin pointed out, and one of the things that made Zelda unique. I would have loved to keep having this option throughout Smash games... if Sakurai didn't make such a big flop out of them. This can be noted with Samus and ZSS as well; one character being significantly 'better' than the other, while the other is lucky to even have someone use her. Pokemon Trainer, also another huge mess; along with the fatigue, no one ever bothered with some of the Pokemon, or just tried to stay Squirtle as much as they could. Finally, we have Zelda and Sheik, who share similar boats as the case with ZSS and Samus.

So my point is, if Sakurai COULD make each transforming character actually viable, I would love having Zelda and Sheik together as one character. But seeing as he's yet to show this yet, I am content with having Zelda and Sheik by themselves. At least the two characters can get another move to use to replace Transform (especially for those that only used one character or the other). And on top of that, those of us that accidentally use down b, we won't be put in a bad spot.

Now as for Phantom, I can see how people aren't pleased with replacing an entire moveset (Sheik) with this move, but again, just goes back to what I was saying about them each getting a move now (like Sheik getting the 'grenade' move). It does look like Phantom has some start-up time, and I was also reminded a little of Din's Fire, but can't really say much until I actually see more footage of the move, or try it myself. If it actually stayed out for awhile, that could pose some interesting defensive options for Zelda, but if it's a move that hits like a smash, then it's hard for me to see people getting hit by that. We'll see though. Also, randomly reminds me of dark magic with all the purple when Zelda summons it... she must have been taking Conjuration training from someone ^^

For the rest of her moves, I didn't see anything significant that's worth mentioning. Some of you said her Up B seemed faster... I hope that's true. I also wonder if both of her Fair and Bair will be the same again, or if they plan on changing one of them?

Anywhos, got to stop for now, before my internet derps again.
 
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