Q&A Zero Suit Samus- Quick Question, Quick Answer Thread

[Remzi]

To avoid cluttering the boards with a new thread every time somebody has a simple question, please ask your simple questions here!

Once the thread has been running for a while, I'll edit in some FAQs into the OP.

 

[Remzi]

And I'll kick it off with the first question- what controls whether the flipkick attack hitbox spikes or sends the opponent off to the side? It feels like a mixed bag to me at times. Anybody know for certain?

And I'm referring to actually attacking out of down B- sometimes it spikes, sometimes it doesn't.

 

[David Viran]

And I'll kick it off with the first question- what controls whether the flipkick attack hitbox spikes or sends the opponent off to the side? It feels like a mixed bag to me at times. Anybody know for certain?

And I'm referring to actually attacking out of down B- sometimes it spikes, sometimes it doesn't.

I think if you press b with no direction then it spikes and with direction sends them flying to the side. I can't confirm this because I don't have the game yet.

 

[Remzi]

I think if you press b with no direction then it spikes and with direction sends them flying to the side. I can't confirm this because I don't have the game yet.

I can definitely confirm that this is not the case.

 

[DeLux]

And I'll kick it off with the first question- what controls whether the flipkick attack hitbox spikes or sends the opponent off to the side? It feels like a mixed bag to me at times. Anybody know for certain?

And I'm referring to actually attacking out of down B- sometimes it spikes, sometimes it doesn't.

In Brawl it was based off time. if you hit on the first 3? frames of the move, it meteored. If you hit later it hit sideways.

That being said, I would imagine something similar is in play here, but I don't know if the properties revolves around time (strong hit vs. weak hit) or space (sweet spot vs. sour spot), etc.

 

[Remzi]

In Brawl it was based off time. if you hit on the first 3? frames of the move, it meteored. If you hit later it hit sideways.

That being said, I would imagine something similar is in play here, but I don't know if the properties revolves around time (strong hit vs. weak hit) or space (sweet spot vs. sour spot), etc.

I was thinking it was something time based but I wasn't sure. Let me keep testing and I'll report back. I never really touched ZSS in Brawl so a lot of her standard stuff is pretty new to me. Thanks.

 

[DeLux]

Anecdotal evidence - it seemed random as hell to me to the point that I stopped going for the kick and just always went for the footstool spike for the most part lol

However I feel like there were situations that I was mashing attack to try to bail myself out that SHOULD have resulted in a meteor if it was based on time, only to have my opponent get knocked sideways.



QUESTION - From a nomenclature / function standpoint, how would the Q&A differ from the Zero Suit General Discussion threads?

 

[hiROI]

When I play, I feel it is the angle where ZSS hits the opponent. When directly on top, I feel that I spike a lot more than usual, and if I hit while horizontal or coming from a 45 degree angle, it sends them horizontally.

QUESTION - From a nomenclature / function standpoint, how would the Q&A differ from the Zero Suit General Discussion threads?

I feel the General Discussion can have potential to transition between a Social Thread and a actual Competitive Thread. With this thread, its focused on just the game and more of a quick-and-go spot for answers.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

How do I use nair correctly? I really only use it in the air to get some space.
Also how do I hit with up b more consistently after a down throw? I tried a bit against bots and they just vector away. Chasing doesn't really work, they just air dodge because it takes so long.

 

[ChaseRLewis]

How do I use nair correctly? I really only use it in the air to get some space.
Also how do I hit with up b more consistently after a down throw? I tried a bit against bots and they just vector away. Chasing doesn't really work, they just air dodge because it takes so long.

Nair seems to be best from a short hop fast fall as at mid percentages you can dash throw, dash fair/bair combo, or pursue. Just make sure you fast fall it and you should get something.

Down throw -> up+B just isn't consistent except against fatties like Ganon/Bowser, imo. I really only go for it after charged B or Down Smash as it seems to consistently hit people then.

 

[Roflcopters]

Is down throw -> uair a true combo at high percents? Very often I've been getting my kills with this at % up to even 150%, even against people who are better than me and I would assume would try to air dodge. I don't have anyone to test it with myself, but can you air dodge out of it?

Also, what are some kill set-ups. I tend to sandbag and get people to high percents like in above situation frequently. What I currently do is start using dsmash more frequently to hope to get a hit for a fsmash or upb.
Edit: Also very frequently kill with downb grounding -> dsmash ->upb/fsmash

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Is down throw -> uair a true combo at high percents? Very often I've been getting my kills with this at % up to even 150%, even against people who are better than me and I would assume would try to air dodge. I don't have anyone to test it with myself, but can you air dodge out of it?

Also, what are some kill set-ups. I tend to sandbag and get people to high percents like in above situation frequently. What I currently do is start using dsmash more frequently to hope to get a hit for a fsmash or upb.
Edit: Also very frequently kill with downb grounding -> dsmash ->upb/fsmash

Yes down throw -> uair is a true combo if you're fast enough.
My favourite kill set-ups are charged b -> up b, charged b --> down b (got offstage kills at 40%+), dsmash --> fsmash, dsmash --> up b and of course down throw --> up b on bigger enemies.

 

[Roflcopters]

Yes down throw -> uair is a true combo if you're fast enough.
My favourite kill set-ups are charged b -> up b, charged b --> down b (got offstage kills at 40%+), dsmash --> fsmash, dsmash --> up b and of course down throw --> up b on bigger enemies.

So is the up b guaranteed on heavies regardless of air dodge? Do you have to quickly double jump -> up b? Or just single jump -> up b to hit?

 

[David Viran]

So is the up b guaranteed on heavies regardless of air dodge? Do you have to quickly double jump -> up b? Or just single jump -> up b to hit?

From my experience up b off of down throw works for me pretty consistently against good players who are using lighter characters too. You only need to jump once to get the follow up off of down throw.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

From my experience up b off of down throw works for me pretty consistently against good players who are using lighter characters too. You only need to jump once to get the follow up off of down throw.

Yeah this, it's possible. I'm just too bad to do it.

 

[elheber]

How do you prevent from Up B rocket kicking in the wrong direction? I've failed several recoveries by tiling diagonally upward toward the stage but getting a rocket kick in the opposite direction. B-reversal?

 

[Roflcopters]

From my experience up b off of down throw works for me pretty consistently against good players who are using lighter characters too. You only need to jump once to get the follow up off of down throw.

Are you sure? I can't land this against level 9 bots (I chose them since they spam air dodge asap) because they either DI too far away for it to land at all, or if it does land they pop out the top before the last hit. If I double jump it lands and kills at least if they don't DI away, but I still can't manage to make it hit if they DI away.

It seems to work consistently against heavies though with double jump.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

How do you prevent from Up B rocket kicking in the wrong direction? I've failed several recoveries by tiling diagonally upward toward the stage but getting a rocket kick in the opposite direction. B-reversal?

By pointing the stick slightly in the direction you want to go while still pointing it mainly up.

Are you sure? I can't land this against level 9 bots (I chose them since they spam air dodge asap) because they either DI too far away for it to land at all, or if it does land they pop out the top before the last hit. If I double jump it lands and kills at least if they don't DI away, but I still can't manage to make it hit if they DI away.

It seems to work consistently against heavies though with double jump.

You can still fully hit enemies if only half of up b hits. Also you shouldn't need to double jump on any characters at low to mid percent. It's faster to run forward and jump once. But I know where you come from, I have problems doing it myself consistently.

 

[Roflcopters]

You can still fully hit enemies if only half of up b hits. Also you shouldn't need to double jump on any characters at low to mid percent. It's faster to run forward and jump once. But I know where you come from, I have problems doing it myself consistently.

Are there some characters that this won't work on ever? I'm going to try practicing this and I don't want to end up practicing it on a character that it can't work on at all. I'm currently going to try Peach.

 

[The Baylz]

I'm fairly new to competitive smash and zss. Was wondering if anyone could give a brief overview of zss ,basic combos and what to avoid doing. I can't seem to do well with her online

 

[elheber]

By pointing the stick slightly in the direction you want to go while still pointing it mainly up.

This still doesn't work for me about 15-20% of the time. I doubt it's the UPro controller, but is that a possibility?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Are there some characters that this won't work on ever? I'm going to try practicing this and I don't want to end up practicing it on a character that it can't work on at all. I'm currently going to try Peach.

Can't tell you that sadly. I'm not good enough to do it consistently myself.

This still doesn't work for me about 15-20% of the time. I doubt it's the UPro controller, but is that a possibility?

I'm europoor, so 3ds only and I can do it consistently.
Should work with a pro controller but I guess it would be easier with a gc controller because of the octagonal gate on the analogue stick.

 

[Fangblade]

Does ZSS's Down special clash w/ everything?
A few times when I was sure I'd hit them, I'd catch them just as they were coming out of a roll or doing an attack. This happens often when I'm facing Kirby.

 

[elheber]

I'm europoor, so 3ds only and I can do it consistently.
Should work with a pro controller but I guess it would be easier with a gc controller because of the octagonal gate on the analogue stick.

I'm certainly not the only one experiencing this problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-klBrhNk4iY#t=583

 

[Zero Suit Senpai]

Hello ZSS players! I was watching this match of Dakpo vs Grim Turtle and I was confused by a few things...I'm a bit new to the character (at least in 4...it's been years since I've played brawl :X ), so sorry if these questions are obvious.

@ 0:51 Dakpo uses down B and footstools Falcon, but then immediately lands rather than bouncing off of him. Whenevr I use down B, I bounce off of my opponent if I hit. How did Dakpo instantly land?

@ 1:03 and beyond, Dakpo uses a series of turnaround paralyzers from what seems to be out of her running animation. How is is done? Because of the pivot animation when you change directions while running, I can't get the paralyzer to come out until ZSS is done skidding across the floor. And if I hit side and B at the same time, I, obviously, get the whip. The only way I've been able to turnaround paralyzer is to reverse jump into it while running, which, while okay, does not seem as effective as what Dakpo is doing.

Thanks!

 

[David Viran]

Hello ZSS players! I was watching this match of @ Dakpo vs Grim Turtle and I was confused by a few things...I'm a bit new to the character, so sorry if these questions are obvious.

@ 0:51 Dakpo uses down B and footstools Falcon, but then immediately lands rather than bouncing off of him. Whenevr I use down B, I bounce off of my opponent if I hit. How did Dakpo instantly land?

@ 1:03 and beyond, Dakpo uses a series of turnaround paralyzers from what seems to be out of her running animation. How is is done? Because of the pivot animation when you change directions while running, I can't get the paralyzer to come out until ZSS is done skidding across the floor. And if I hit side and B at the same time, I, obviously, get the whip. The only way I've been able to turnaround paralyzer is to reverse jump into it while running, which, while okay, does not seem as effective as what Dakpo is doing.

Thanks!

When dakpo landed after the footstool instantly because the falcon hit him with his up tilt.

To turn around with the paralyzer while on the ground you have to input neutral b then press the direction you want to aim directly after, without using side special.

 

[Zero Suit Senpai]

To turn around with the paralyzer while on the ground you have to input neutral b then press the direction you want to aim directly after, without using side special.

Wow this might change my life. Thanks.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Hello ZSS players! I was watching this match of @ Dakpo vs Grim Turtle and I was confused by a few things...I'm a bit new to the character, so sorry if these questions are obvious.

@ 0:51 Dakpo uses down B and footstools Falcon, but then immediately lands rather than bouncing off of him. Whenevr I use down B, I bounce off of my opponent if I hit. How did Dakpo instantly land?

@ 1:03 and beyond, Dakpo uses a series of turnaround paralyzers from what seems to be out of her running animation. How is is done? Because of the pivot animation when you change directions while running, I can't get the paralyzer to come out until ZSS is done skidding across the floor. And if I hit side and B at the same time, I, obviously, get the whip. The only way I've been able to turnaround paralyzer is to reverse jump into it while running, which, while okay, does not seem as effective as what Dakpo is doing.

Thanks!

0:51 slow the video down to 0.25 speed and you can see that he just got hit so the animation was cancelled.
1:03 run, move the stick in the opposite direction and press b nearly immediately (when the stick is in neutral position to be exact).
Edit: Ninja'd

 

[Dakpo]

Wow this might change my life. Thanks.

Im changing lives now

 

[sonti]

Im having a lot of problems lately. My ground game seems to be horrible and i know most aerial combos, but i just dont get to setup them. Also, i never use down smash, when is it usefull? I realise down B is strong aswell, but it seems impossible to hit opponents sometimes.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Im having a lot of problems lately. My ground game seems to be horrible and i know most aerial combos, but i just dont get to setup them. Also, i never use down smash, when is it usefull? I realise down B is strong aswell, but it seems impossible to hit opponents sometimes.

I mainly use dsmash to punish rolls but I bet there is more you can do with it because it's great on shield.
I use down b to get out of sticky situations, punish laggy range moves and as a kill move together with charged neutral b.
If you get the neutral b offstage you can kill pretty early with the kick spike.

 

[pichuthedk]

I mainly use dsmash to punish rolls but I bet there is more you can do with it because it's great on shield.
I use down b to get out of sticky situations, punish laggy range moves and as a kill move together with charged neutral b.
If you get the neutral b offstage you can kill pretty early with the kick spike.

Yeah I posted in the other thread about how her Charged laser set up like guaranteed down b spike when you get someone at near the ledge As for Off stage I think Its easier to just use the foot stool spike on people instead of Yolo disrespecting kicks xD.

 

[sonti]

My ground game has improved a lot, but i have problems edge guarding unless they are very low in which case down B takes good care. Charing my neutral B never seems to work because they come back on stage pretty high most of the time, any advice?

 

[pichuthedk]

Well In terms of gimping their recovery it is actually annoying to set up but you have a few potential GTFO my stage gimmicks.
1. Charged laser to down b which has been stated by several people including me and Tobi (although I prefer the down b footstool instead since the kick is to Yolo) [You can do a full hope from on stage to go lower and shoot them if that is an issue.]

2. Kinda risk but what ever you can probably just jump at people and either Zair or side b/wave bounce side b (for when they go low and you kinda want to try and send them downwards).

3. You can actually just use the down b wall jump to get a down b footstool on opponents who choose to go low which will in turn kill most of the cast and the best part is so long as you still have your double jump and don't panic you can just wall jump ->tether / up b back.

4. Run off and fair them further away or bair into the stage.

5. I'm going to stop with this last one but fair warning there are a few conditions that must be met along with timing for this one to work.
If you down b towards someone who is recovering at a moderate height from anywhere between just above the stage to just below the stage (down b MUST be able to footstool them) They have 3 options , obviously the worst is to not do anything and just keep trying to move close enough to recover which results in you footstooling them and they die or barely manage to get back.

Next would be to air dodge and not get footstooled but depending on character/height of their recovery ect they might not even make it back from the air dodge end lag.

lastly would be to throw out an attack to try and hit you or just stop the soft spike from the footstool (I've generally not really be hit from footstooling off stage opponents who try to attack.

Anyways moving on that was the first condition and the reason for that is because you have to give them that false sense of security, After the footstool you need to grab the ledge however you obviously have end lag from her exaggerated animation.

By the time you get the ledge depending on their character they might reach the ledge first which is typically what you want because if you grab it before them you risk the danger of the ledge share-> knock off punish, The beauty of that mechanic is that you can use moves almost as soon as your thrown off and In my personal experience I have managed this kill setup regardless of grabbing the ledge first or second (more first then second IIRC)

In alot of situations I've managed to scare the opponent to get onto the stage which for example I do the above to a ganon at this point after I attempt the footstool off stage I grabbed the ledge first Ganon second so he pushed me off and then what happens next Is I Down b Towards the stage and Ganon gets up normally (Obviously since I am not on the stage trying to edge guard so he won't get up attack) Or rolls for better positioning, Becuase he chooses to do this He is caught by down b and gets buried at which point I land beside him down smash -> up b or just up b for the kill.

The best thing about this as well is that even if Ganon tried to jump off the ledge and bair me upon pushing me off the ledge
He will never get me because no character in the game can punish an immediate down b from that position and their is also the possibility of aiming down B for the shortest Horizontal distance to try and spike or footstool them again when they try to get back again and this time they grab the ledge they wont have invincibility .

 

[fath3r]

What do people think about setting c stick to tilts? Has anyone tried this? I'm going to try it out for a week or so to see how it leads to juggling / combos.

 

[krazyzyko]

Does she has a Zair?
Which aerials can she auto cancel with SH?

Sorry, l don't have the game yet. :$

 

[KoozyK]

Can someone explain the usage of nair? Follow ups, and basic situations when used.

 

[David Viran]

Does she has a Zair?
Which aerials can she auto cancel with SH?
Sorry, l don't have the game yet. :$

Yes she does have a Zair. I know nair has a auto cancel window but not to sure on the others.

Can someone explain the usage of nair? Follow ups, and basic situations when used.

Nair is used with a combination of neutral special to space. The follow ups off of nair are really good at lower percents you can get a grab forward Smash and maybe down Smash? At mid percents you get a fair or you can go for the down special spike. At higher percents you get positional advantage.

 

[KoozyK]

Nair is used with a combination of neutral special to space. The follow ups off of nair are really good at lower percents you can get a grab forward Smash and maybe down Smash? At mid percents you get a fair or you can go for the down special spike. At higher percents you get positional advantage.

What do you mean by neutral special, neutral b?
Also what situations is it usually used; what is the opponent doing in order for nair to be viable?

 

[David Viran]

You use nair when you are zoning or approaching. The opponent is usually shielding when you use nair. Yes I mean neutral b