Q&A Zero Suit Samus- Quick Question, Quick Answer Thread

[extremechiton]

Forgot about fair?

 

[Shaya]

Fair will be having a very hard time hitting people grounded in general.

 

[Shaya]

Fair will be having a very hard time hitting people grounded in general.

 

[David Viran]

Unless your name is rosalina.

 

[Shaya]

Yeah, I don't even like fairing against grounded ganons tbh.

 

[extremechiton]

Sh fair ff works.

I just have a hard time timing it cuz you have to wiff the first hit and connect the second.

Miss and you ff into the ground before the second hit comes out, or you jump too high and both hits miss.

Or you could sh at the right time and connect both hits.


Gosh, i make it sound like any other option is better

 

[Shaya]

I'd want the first hit only the most, as it's a low knockback scaling sakurai angle that always results in free things.

 

[extremechiton]

For that to happen, youd either wiff the second hit and get punishes,
Ff into the ground before second hit comes out and get landing lag and punished,
Or just get lucky.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

Hey guys.
Wondering how to punish her Down B? I know there's some invincibility mid jump...
Main Bowser Jr. and Captain Falcon

 

[extremechiton]

Shield and aerial,
Jump, air dodge, punish landing (zss will go into footstool animation)
Attack from above if possible


You could probably use bowser Jr's disjointed fair and bairs to challenge with

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

I feel it's pretty awful because we're a lot faster, similar range, a lot of our stuff is safe. Zair kills rockets and hits you and combos into things and we kill her.

I feel it's a terriiiibad match up too.

Yeah, I get that. I've never had more match up trouble. Thanks, sakurai.

 

[Shaya]

Your best bet would be a shield focused game. Power shield punishes like dash attack or fsmash. Try to crouch against obvious zairs or rising aerials. You're ideally trying to outspace in close-ish range. Jab1 mix ups (roll or dash attack) is your fastest choice if you can force a shield on ZSS, and you'd try to bait a grab.

 

[pichuthedk]

Samus' s down b is annoying as **** when used sparringly especially if zss is trigger happy with lasers to grab.

Anyways Rosalinas done for MUs what are you guys thinking of next? Personally I'm tired of Johning about villager or Pikachu so I'd lean towards one of those spammers but it's up to you guys to suggest what you fell we have trouble with.

before I forget has anyone messed around with that thing that happens when you fail a perfect pivot? Looks like your dashing/skating In place?

I've noticed it's kind of visually deceiving and you do have some random options from it.
You can jump with what seems like increased aerial momentum (don't quote me still testing and it's probably your ground speed or something) Which seems perfect for things like approaching/retreating lasers or Zairs, aerials Ect.

But stuff on the ground could be either dash attack or any of the grab inputs I'll have to wait till I get a system to finish making sure it's legit.

 

[Shaya]

Yeah I know about it. It's that video originally telling me "if you're doing this, then you're messing up by not releasing the stick fast enough" that got me perfect pivoting with 90% consistency in like 2 minutes.

You can also roll out of it. It's using your character's dash pivot-ish jump momentum.
(Dash Pivots are really good on several characters, you can do standing actions out of them and the jumps out of them get those nice slides).

It's a really good way to bait an action to then dash attack, like really really good.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

A few questions!

How useful has pivoting been to people? Is down throw to boost kick a combo? How about down throw to up air x2? I have a hard time getting the second up air on... anyone. Is that just me being bad? I'm thinking it's me being bad, heh.

 

[BatShark]

Dthrow to Boost Kick can be a true combo but in my experience is about 100x more achievable as such on heavies. I tend to look for it starting around 75%, and find that hard DI away makes it kind of risky. If you have a read on their air dodge it can be a devastating punish on that.

Dthrow to Uair Uair is for sure a true combo but the window can be pretty small. Not so small that you can't sometimes land in between Uairs in certain % situations, especially if you're ascending platforms. I tend to look for Dthrow Uair Uair Up B around 25%.

Can't comment on pivoting as far as others go and it's not a huge part of my game yet but it's certainly something you'll want to learn, especially for Dsmash.

 

[extremechiton]

Generally for d throw to boost kick, if they're at about 35 to 50 degrees above you, boost kick will connect.
I don't d throw>boost kick mindlessly, if I see them do in that sweet spot range, I can boost kick on reaction, if I think I'll miss, I'll opt for upair instead.

 

[Shaya]

Make sure you aren't using your double jump when you do the first up air (it can be appealing because you'll reach 'them' a little bit faster, but without follow up or dominant juggle position).
Uair > jump uair should string a lot of the time.

 

[extremechiton]

Or in certain situations or certain characters or just bad di
Up air, falling up air, re jump, up air, double jump up air. Boost kick

On the heavier characters, you might be able to do the falling up air, re jump several times.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Thanks for the discussion on it. I get a reasonable number of grab setups (for my level, at least) and don't seem to get the brutal punishes I see floating around. I'll work on it.

Also, wavebouncing is my new favorite thing. My success on it is rising and it's a really neat option to use on a recovering opponent, I find.

Edit: Also, also! I think I figured out my issue with dthrow --> boost kick or dthrow --> uair --> uair --> boost kick. It's the timing of the jumps. I think I've been waiting too long to jump, wasting frames. Using the training mode combo counter as a metric (I think that works OK for figuring out true combos?), I found that I could combo these if I jumped sooner out of the dthrow than I'm used to doing by reflex.

Is there a buffer window in this game? Can I buffer those jumps instead? If so, anyone know how many frames that buffer queue is, off-hand?

 

[David Viran]

Thanks for the discussion on it. I get a reasonable number of grab setups (for my level, at least) and don't seem to get the brutal punishes I see floating around. I'll work on it.

Also, wavebouncing is my new favorite thing. My success on it is rising and it's a really neat option to use on a recovering opponent, I find.

Edit: Also, also! I think I figured out my issue with dthrow --> boost kick or dthrow --> uair --> uair --> boost kick. It's the timing of the jumps. I think I've been waiting too long to jump, wasting frames. Using the training mode combo counter as a metric (I think that works OK for figuring out true combos?), I found that I could combo these if I jumped sooner out of the dthrow than I'm used to doing by reflex.

Is there a buffer window in this game? Can I buffer those jumps instead? If so, anyone know how many frames that buffer queue is, off-hand?

I think the buffer frames are the same as brawl like 10 frames or something. You cannot buffer more than one thing unlike in brawl though.

 

[pichuthedk]

So I've been tinkering with an idea for a surprise edge guard from a grab at the ledge and would like to pick your brains.

I already showed V115 this but if you were to say dash grab someone at the ledge so that they are hanging off and you kept pummeling them for the release, I feel like their reaction after the release is to air dodge if you were to flip jump at them (the flip jump with the least horizontal momentum so that you are on top of them), after this just spam your jump and footstool them.

Demonstrated it but never asked for his feedback we were giving a zss lecture to one of my Disciple T.T I am at 3 now makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside xD.

 

[extremechiton]

So I've been tinkering with an idea for a surprise edge guard from a grab at the ledge and would like to pick your brains.

I already showed V115 this but if you were to say dash grab someone at the ledge so that they are hanging off and you kept pummeling them for the release, I feel like their reaction after the release is to air dodge if you were to flip jump at them (the flip jump with the least horizontal momentum so that you are on top of them), after this just spam your jump and footstool them.

Demonstrated it but never asked for his feedback we were giving a zss lecture to one of my Disciple T.T I am at 3 now makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside xD.

Idk, I'm doing some testing in training and so far, I can get a run off stage>footstool. And a dsmash.
But that's if they jump. Flip jump takes too long to come back down.

But a fun thing I found is grab release at the edge> dsmash to catch thier jump>flip kick spike since at point blank range, flip kick auto sweetspotted the spike off of dsmash.

And with the grab release> footstool, you can get a back air for the stage spike(timing is tricky though)

You can also try this on bf platforms, you can get a fair follow up off grab release or up air depending on thier release.

 

[pichuthedk]

Idk, I'm doing some testing in training and so far, I can get a run off stage>footstool. And a dsmash.
But that's if they jump. Flip jump takes too long to come back down.

But a fun thing I found is grab release at the edge> dsmash to catch thier jump>flip kick spike since at point blank range, flip kick auto sweetspotted the spike off of dsmash.

And with the grab release> footstool, you can get a back air for the stage spike(timing is tricky though)

You can also try this on bf platforms, you can get a fair follow up off grab release or up air depending on thier release.

Well against a normal human player who sees you do it especially if you sequence them into expecting the kick via b throw flip jump. The reason I was tinkering with this is because since everyone and their mother have a good recovery in this game...excluding mac, they tend to go lower then normal to I guess "minimize " the risk of being stage level and to get that sweet spot ledge snap.

T.T the wiiu it's so beautiful It brings tears to my eyes.

The nice Asian shop keeper for the computer store even sold it to me for 200$ flat no sales tax.

Thank you target for your terrible marketing strategy in Canada , thank you nintendo for sending him a new one and thank you Asian shop keeps around the world snatching up wholesale merchandise and merchanting it off later.

XD. now my next venture to go and buy a mint copy of smash wii u for 45$, off I go back to adventuring.

 

[extremechiton]

Yes I do see flaws in my testing. (I was only testing a lvl 3 falco, more extensive tests needed, especially against a human. Perhaps I shall take this on for glory)

Perhaps you can mind game with your opponent.

 

[pichuthedk]

Yeah but mind games are one of my biggest flaws still I don't ever feel like it but I guess I am now starting to see how telegraphed I am.

Need an adapter Pronto so I can practice every thing.

Need to figure out a way to level up my weaker fundamentals whislt keeping the presence of mind regarding the other aspects of play. I always feel like I am leveling up ever so slowly in some places but it's deteriorating my other capabilities in others.

Zammy my gurl we got our work cut out for us T.T

 

[chococrow]

who is zss worst match up

 

[NickRiddle]

who is zss worst match up

Diddy .

 

[pichuthedk]

So meek speedy just put me in a body bag deliverin me to losers in both singles and doubles the climb starts now it's real.

 

[Deleted member]

How can I handle ZSS with Pit? Everytime I try all that happens is Pit gets shocked by the stun gunned and then while stunned electrocuted twice in a row with down smash which is stunned for about five seconds. Then I get finished by The electric whip up smash move.

 

[BadAlias]

Hi all
1. I was wondering if there are any really good approaching options for her? I can combo pretty well but it's getting to the combing that is causing me trouble.

2. The grab is SOOOOOOOO slow and laggy, it's hard for me to get as many grabs as other characters. What kinda of spacing should I use for it? And are there and set ups to grab besides stun gun?

 

[Nowayitsj]

ZSS has been pretty fun and very good after using her a bit and I wanted her to be my second main, is there a place with all her true combos/ ways to play her efficiently at a high level/her advance techs or combos/other stuff id need to know? (or if someone wouldn't mind replying with it themselves too) thanks, couldn't find a true combo thread or playstyle/combo thread in general

 

[David Viran]

ZSS has been pretty fun and very good after using her a bit and I wanted her to be my second main, is there a place with all her true combos/ ways to play her efficiently at a high level/her advance techs or combos/other stuff id need to know? (or if someone wouldn't mind replying with it themselves too) thanks, couldn't find a true combo thread or playstyle/combo thread in general

http://smashboards.com/threads/your-amazing-zero-suit-samus-combo-video-thread.387603/

Here's the combo thread.

 

[NickRiddle]

Back in my day people actually played the characters to learn their combos, or read through the boards for 30 seconds to see if there was another thread for it.
I miss Cake.

 

[Mariofan13]

Is it possible to cancel her DAir after the hit? Very often, I can kill the foe by spiking him with DAir, but I die too because I'm not able to cancel her Dair and recover back tothe stage.

 

[NickRiddle]

No .

 

[Aether9000]

Hello everybody. I'm currently making an anti-guide for the top 5 characters in Smash 4, and ZSS is next on my list. Here are my questions.

1. What are her weaknesses in general?
2. What are her bad matchups?
3. What stages should you ban against ZSS?
4. Which direction do you DI her Up-B (left seems like the right way but I could be wrong)?


That's about it. I might add more questions later.

 

[NickRiddle]

1. Shielding
2. Diddy, Olimar, Pikachu, kinda Sheik
3. Halberd, Delfino, Town + City, Battlefield
4. DI towards + down.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

1. Shielding
2. Diddy, Olimar, Pikachu, kinda Sheik
3. Halberd, Delfino, Town + City, Battlefield
4. DI towards + down.

Watch out we have an optimist over here

 

[NickRiddle]

Watch out we hav an optimist over here

I wish.