Q&A Zero Suit Samus- Quick Question, Quick Answer Thread

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

That results in a B Reverse. If I'm running and jump right, press B, and hammer left, I'll face (and move) left and fire left.

I want to be running and jump right, do the correct input so that I face right, move left, face right, and fire right. I believe this is called a Wave Bounce. I'd find a video if I weren't at work... I'll see what I can dig up later.

Yes that's called wave bounce. You can also use the C stick if it's set to tilts which will let you use it on the ground.

Non C stick method:
Moving right in the air, hit left, do neutral B, hit right.

Tilt stick method:
Hold right, C stick left + B (same frame)

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Yes that's called wave bounce. You can also use the C stick if it's set to tilts which will let you use it on the ground.

Non C stick method:
Moving right in the air, hit left, do neutral B, hit right.

Tilt stick method:
Hold right, C stick left + B (same frame)

Whoo boy, that sounds tough. I'll give it some practice! Thanks a bunch!

 

[DeLux]

A reverse turns you around. A wave bounce you face the same way.

 

[Jaxas]

Tilt stick method:
Hold right, C stick left + B (same frame)

WHAT.

Why did I not know you could do this?
Gonna go practice that, sounds way easier, and I'm already using Tilt Stick...

 

[DeLux]

Does the dual stick method actually work still? I tested it with smash stick since I did most of the technical writing on the topic for Brawl, but didn't get it to work. Surprised if tilt sticks work but not surprised lol

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

I guess smash stick doesn't work because it doesn't let you use the left stick while it's held? idk lol

 

[BatShark]

Q - Does playing a very good Sheik as ZSS make anyone else want to quit this game or is it just me?

 

[DeLux]

Q - Does playing a very good Sheik as ZSS make anyone else want to quit this game or is it just me?

Not the game, just the character lol

 

[BatShark]

Pretty much. I feel like if the Sheik plays correctly the neutral is unwinnable in that MU. It's super daunting.

 

[DeLux]

Food for thought then: If you can't win the neutral, don't play the neutral. If you don't play the neutral long enough, you start to be able to play the neutral.

 

[Shaya]

This all depends on whether or not you can actually hit people with spaced nairs crouching, ever.

Neutral against sheik is awkward, she gets a lot more out of crouching and playing extremely passively than say.... Pikachu.

 

[Remzi]

Yeah, I've been on this train for a while. Sheik is ZSS's hardest matchup by far imo. Its winnable, but it comes down to maximizing each scarce punish/read you get in ways that Sheik can't. I don't really struggle against general high level Sheiks, but against the Mr. Rs and Falses of the world, I haven't quite figured it out yet.

 

[NickRiddle]

I need to play a really good Sheik I guess.
THAT'LL SHOW YOU ALL!

 

[pichuthedk]

I kinda find shiek typically easy as well if I'm generally losing its cause I'm bad trying to get them free boost kicks... her pokes and awkward landing positions piss me off to no end though....

Some thing tells me pp d smash /up tilt will probably tip the scales in ZSS's favor but if the shiek is of that Mr R/false level.... I need to get bopper by them so that I can learn better.

Has anyone actually gotten the "possible " straight up murder 0-60% ish chain grab that shiek has Landed on them yet? Those are probably the shieks to fear.

 

[David Viran]

Yeah, I've been on this train for a while. Sheik is ZSS's hardest matchup by far imo. Its winnable, but it comes down to maximizing each scarce punish/read you get in ways that Sheik can't. I don't really struggle against general high level Sheiks, but against the Mr. Rs and Falses of the world, I haven't quite figured it out yet.

I can't compare myself to Mr r or falses sheik because the skill gap is so large I would get bopped no matter who I'm using.

Edit: random question what dairs does zss's uair lose to. I was in a tournament against a link recently and he used dair when above me and I beat it clean with uair. I heard diddy's uair can't do that.

 

[BatShark]

Yeah, I've been on this train for a while. Sheik is ZSS's hardest matchup by far imo. Its winnable, but it comes down to maximizing each scarce punish/read you get in ways that Sheik can't. I don't really struggle against general high level Sheiks, but against the Mr. Rs and Falses of the world, I haven't quite figured it out yet.

Not sure it's necessarily her toughest MU but I think it's one of the three. She just gets so much free pressure, and can cover spacing mistakes with Ftilt. I feel like you need a read and some sort of timing mistake to punish any of her approaches, seeing as she's un-shield grabbable unless she gets caught spamming Ftilt one too many times. Nair is too slow compared to her aerials to even act as a wall unless it's retreating and then they repeat until you're out of stage.

 

[David Viran]

Not sure it's necessarily her toughest MU but I think it's one of the three. She just gets so much free pressure, and can cover spacing mistakes with Ftilt. I feel like you need a read and some sort of timing mistake to punish any of her approaches, seeing as she's un-shield grabbable unless she gets caught spamming Ftilt one too many times. Nair is too slow compared to her aerials to even act as a wall unless it's retreating and then they repeat until you're out of stage.

Bruh up b oos will destroy misspaces. Oos jab also will work against misspaces. Her ftilt is not a move to cover mistakes with when you got a frame 2 jab.

 

[BatShark]

Food for thought then: If you can't win the neutral, don't play the neutral. If you don't play the neutral long enough, you start to be able to play the neutral.

This might be the way to go here.

And for the record this is mostly due to one particular Sheik player I frequently play with. The rest in the region that I play usually create enough inefficiencies that the core of the MU isn't as relevant.

Though I am also trash so there's that too.

 

[BatShark]

Bruh up b oos will destroy misspaces. Oos jab also will work against misspaces. Her ftilt is not a move to cover mistakes with when you got a frame 2 jab.

I've had some limited success with Jab. Up B I don't do until kill % and by then they're expecting.

And against a correctly spaced Fair approach?

 

[David Viran]

I've had some limited success with Jab. Up B I don't do until kill % and by then they're expecting.

And against a correctly spaced Fair approach?

Jab works on fair for sure and up b doesn't seem to stale that much because the multiple hits. Yeah at higher percents they expect you to punish misspaces with up b and kill them so they have to be super careful.

I thought we were talking about misspaces with everything not spaced fairs but even then PS can punish that. I would not say sheik really gets free pressure in this MU.
Also nair has range that sheik could only dream about actually all of zss's aerials out range sheiks. Just learn to use superior range in the air over attack speed easier said than done though.

 

[BatShark]

Jab works on fair for sure and up b doesn't seem to stale that much because the multiple hits. Yeah at higher percents they expect you to punish misspaces with up b and kill them so they have to be super careful.

I thought we were talking about misspaces with everything not spaced fairs but even then PS can punish that. I would not say sheik really gets free pressure in this MU.
Also nair has range that sheik could only dream about actually all of zss's aerials out range sheiks. Just learn to use superior range in the air over attack speed easier said than done though.

Sort of, it was just one aspect of my original complaint though, the premise of which being that if Sheik plays correctly I'm not convinced the neutral is anything other than hugely in her favor.

I haven't had very much success with Nair at all. I have to be retreating or her speed beats my range and then like I said, repeat until out of stage.

 

[CatStache]

Best options to punish, at low percent, and medium percent? (Excluding High percent because thats obviously a kill move punish.)

 

[BatShark]

Nair or falling Uair probably.

What kind of situations do you mean though?

 

[Wyles]

what are some good followups after a utilt in mid-high percents?

 

[extremechiton]

I dont think, uptilt has follow ups.
It has some cool down, and it kills at high percents.

But other wise, up air,
Read air dodges and punish,
Nair?

 

[eveningninja]

Do most of the pro ZSS's use B-stick or Smash-stick or Tilt-stick? If there is no obvious choice, what are the advantages of each?

Thanks.

 

[extremechiton]

I think b sticking makes b reversals ans wave bounces easier. (Aside from neutral special reversals.)

In smash 4 tilt sticking allows you to keep your aerial momentum while attacking.

Smash sticking just makes it simplr to perform smash attacks.

 

[Equin0x]

How to flip-jump off of a wall? I've only ever done it on accident and cannot figure out how to do it on purpose. Help?

 

[David Viran]

How to flip-jump off of a wall? I've only ever done it on accident and cannot figure out how to do it on purpose. Help?

Press up when you hit the wall with down b.

 

[extremechiton]

Press up when you hit the wall with down b.

I just hold jump.

 

[jaytalks]

On the 3DS version, I try to use her down A air attack but sometimes instead of going all the way down with the kick, she sort of floats in the air. Is there a reason for this?

 

[Shaya]

You're in momentum from getting hit still.

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

As a Samus main, how do I deal with ZSS?

 

[David Viran]

As a Samus main, how do I deal with ZSS?

Take off the suit.

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

Take off the suit.

Humor aside, what actual advice do you have? I'm too stubborn to believe the match up is impossible.

 

[NickRiddle]

Humor aside, what actual advice do you have? I'm too stubborn to believe the match up is impossible.

The MU is pretty impossible.

 

[extremechiton]

As a zss main, i find the samus mu drull and annoying.

Heres how it goes:

Samus: missle missile roll roll d smash missle charge shot roll roll d tilt roll dash attack missle misile charge shot.roll roll


So much to work through, and since samus roll is so long its so hard for me to punish.
Then i have to deal with charge shot spam that wittles my shield so much.

Thats why i counter pick villager against samus: lloid blocks charge shot, tree blocks everything
Roll spam is still annoying and since villager is slow, i still cant punish that.
And i can pocket when i need to.

 

[Shaya]

I feel it's pretty awful because we're a lot faster, similar range, a lot of our stuff is safe. Zair kills rockets and hits you and combos into things and we kill her.

I feel it's a terriiiibad match up too.

 

[Probalo]

What are some good moves to use out of short hop to attack opponents on the ground?

 

[David Viran]

Nair, Bair, uair, Zair.