Q&A Zero Suit Samus- Quick Question, Quick Answer Thread

[Kesno]

I don't see an faq in the op and I'd rather not read 15 pages of questions so my apologies if this has already been asked but what is the best way to counter a ZSS using her down b towards you? Every time I try to counter it I usually either get sent into the ground or meteored if I try to deal with it in the air. Shielding doesn't seem to help since she kicks it and bounces away. For specific character punishes, anything these 5 can do would be great: . The answer is probably super easy and obvious (like I can imagine MK can just shield and then chase with nado or Ike can just land a well timed utilt or usmash) but the only time I ever run into ZSS players is on For Glory, usually doubles, which has lag :/.

You can up air her out of her down b and she can't kick or stomp until about the apex of her arc so don't worry about that. I'm guessing you are a ZS Samus main so I'll do a quick punish thing for the 5 you mentioned.
D3 is big and you have better movement than him so the jumping shenanigans (D3's love to fake you out by using many jumps before they return to the ground) shouldn't really work. D3's love their smashes like our local D3 pro uses dsmash as a trap tool but if you see it coming just hit him out of it or after it. You can really catch D3's before they do a lot of their moves so just hit them before they do it.

Watch what moves the Ike uses and punish him for the unsafe ones that really is the MU here.. If they like to fast fall they're moves shield then hit them on the ground since his moves have a lot of landing lag. Again the start up is slow so just attack before he can and beat him out.

Kirby is a short f*cker so punish them when they want to hold down. Dsmash is good here high start up but low end lag so can be hard to punish. Watch how Kirby approaches i.e. fairs, dtilt, bair and watch what they do afterwards and look for when he is slow and punish that. It's how the MU goes it's hard to approach him if he doesn't move first. You still have better movement than him in the air so abuse that.

Metaknight is basically a not short kirby with some range and heavier. So in my mind you just adapt the Kirby MU to him but just mind the up air and specials on him. He is looking to kinda do the same things really. Dtilt approach, maybe some fairs in there which aren't safe to my knowledge. Just kinda a lot of the same to me.

Rob is the harder MU since you are forced to commit in a lot of tough positions. He can do a lagless nair on your shield that looks unsafe but actually is so watch out for that. You have to really make the Rob move to be able to punish him right by making him run or get him to be agro. What I like to do is stand right in his face and get him to make some option that doesn't involve him camping like dash attack. You have to look for those little moments to open him up and punish him for it. If he shields a lot of your aerials on your approach be very careful a lot of her aerials are safe on Rob's shield.

 

[Krysco]

You can up air her out of her down b and she can't kick or stomp until about the apex of her arc so don't worry about that. I'm guessing you are a ZS Samus main so I'll do a quick punish thing for the 5 you mentioned.
D3 is big and you have better movement than him so the jumping shenanigans (D3's love to fake you out by using many jumps before they return to the ground) shouldn't really work. D3's love their smashes like our local D3 pro uses dsmash as a trap tool but if you see it coming just hit him out of it or after it. You can really catch D3's before they do a lot of their moves so just hit them before they do it.

Watch what moves the Ike uses and punish him for the unsafe ones that really is the MU here.. If they like to fast fall they're moves shield then hit them on the ground since his moves have a lot of landing lag. Again the start up is slow so just attack before he can and beat him out.

Kirby is a short f*cker so punish them when they want to hold down. Dsmash is good here high start up but low end lag so can be hard to punish. Watch how Kirby approaches i.e. fairs, dtilt, bair and watch what they do afterwards and look for when he is slow and punish that. It's how the MU goes it's hard to approach him if he doesn't move first. You still have better movement than him in the air so abuse that.

Metaknight is basically a not short kirby with some range and heavier. So in my mind you just adapt the Kirby MU to him but just mind the up air and specials on him. He is looking to kinda do the same things really. Dtilt approach, maybe some fairs in there which aren't safe to my knowledge. Just kinda a lot of the same to me.

Rob is the harder MU since you are forced to commit in a lot of tough positions. He can do a lagless nair on your shield that looks unsafe but actually is so watch out for that. You have to really make the Rob move to be able to punish him right by making him run or get him to be agro. What I like to do is stand right in his face and get him to make some option that doesn't involve him camping like dash attack. You have to look for those little moments to open him up and punish him for it. If he shields a lot of your aerials on your approach be very careful a lot of her aerials are safe on Rob's shield.

Quite the opposite actually. ZSS is one of a few characters I have very little knowledge on. The 5 I listed are 5 of my best characters (I left out since I don't use him much in FG dubs which is where I usually run into ZSS players) and I was wondering how to deal with ZSS' down b. I've been told you can air dodge through it, some characters can shield and then chase and punish and you've mentioned that you can uair her out of it since the kick doesn't come out until the apex of the jump. Lag makes things a bit harder (especially for slower characters like and ) but anything helps.

It's funny that you mention Kirby being a short ****er since that's one of the reasons I love him xD. Being a D3/Ganon main back in the 3DS days and running into ZSS on FG was hard. Then I found out how easy Kirby can just duck under a bunch of attacks including many of ZSS'.

 

[Lloydder]

I didn't see anything about it in this thread so i'm posting here.
I've trained to land a fastfalled Nair with ZSS for hours, because I used to miss it everytime. Going in training mode, then FG or friends to try every possibilities. But since the new patch, it seems that Nair's hitbox is a bit different. A friend of mine noticed it without me talking about it. So anyone experienced the same thing or is this just a placebo ?

 

[Iridex]

I didn't see anything about it in this thread so i'm posting here.
I've trained to land a fastfalled Nair with ZSS for hours, because I used to miss it everytime. Going in training mode, then FG or friends to try every possibilities. But since the new patch, it seems that Nair's hitbox is a bit different. A friend of mine noticed it without me talking about it. So anyone experienced the same thing or is this just a placebo ?

If anything I've found it easier to hit, probably a placebo for both of us!

Does anyone know if our Neutral B is edge cancellable? I keep doing something that looks like it by mistake when B-reversing at the ledge on FG and when I try replicating it it looks legit but I'm still sceptical.

 

[pichuthedk]

If anything I've found it easier to hit, probably a placebo for both of us!

Does anyone know if our Neutral B is edge cancellable? I keep doing something that looks like it by mistake when B-reversing at the ledge on FG and when I try replicating it it looks legit but I'm still sceptical.

You can edge cancel lasers facing both forward and backwards. It can be legit depending on how you use it I remember doing something similar in brawl with her side b on BF where I'd just run off the lower platforms and then do a turn around B with proper timing and input you she like auto cancels or something.



Alright ladies I feel great shame in asking this about a scenario that pops up I guess quite a bit , However since there has been an increasing number of Zss clones popping up like the X I see myself in this situation more in the future so I'd like to consider things now for the sake of being "optimal " as Zero says Japan is good at when I need to be.

If 2 Zss's are squaring off and for the sake of making things simple we will say on FD and they will be called ZA and ZB.

*ahem* If ZA tries to Boost kick ZB but misses for whatever reason (shield ,early roll ,whiff ect) Theoretically can ZB wait till ZA is on her way down (and possibly at approximately half the height of Samus), go and jab 1 -> jab cancel and downsmash ZA -> boostkick/F-smash/flip jump kick? Or would down smash take to long? (very forgetful about frame data and stuff at times D; )

I have been pondering this scenario for quite some time and either kept forgetting to ask it or randomly remembering and trying to test it out vs a friend in friendlies, However the presence of mind required after playing mindlessly for hours is...*johns*.

Also before I forget about another thing I started thinking about recently regarding dreamland however I don't feel bad for this one. For characters like fox ,shiek , falcon ect is it possible for us to get a mini down smash lock on them at 0% when the tree is blowing wind that would push them back to us? The way I've tried to test potential downsmash locks is by setting the game to 1/4 landing the downsmash on a idle fox and then quickly switching them to run and timing the next down smashes.

I have not gotten paid yet so I haven't purchased the DLC packages and I only played on it a couple of times so I don't even fully know the mechanics of the wind like whether it will push us off and turn downsmashes into dairs.

ugh couldn't sleep and now I've got wok in like an hour *sigh*

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Alright ladies I feel great shame in asking this about a scenario that pops up I guess quite a bit , However since there has been an increasing number of Zss clones popping up like the X I see myself in this situation more in the future so I'd like to consider things now for the sake of being "optimal " as Zero says Japan is good at when I need to be.

If 2 Zss's are squaring off and for the sake of making things simple we will say on FD and they will be called ZA and ZB.

*ahem* If ZA tries to Boost kick ZB but misses for whatever reason (shield ,early roll ,whiff ect) Theoretically can ZB wait till ZA is on her way down (and possibly at approximately half the height of Samus), go and jab 1 -> jab cancel and downsmash ZA -> boostkick/F-smash/flip jump kick? Or would down smash take to long? (very forgetful about frame data and stuff at times D; )

If you jab her freefall, effectively cancelling it, wouldn't she be able to, for example, flip jump out of it?

 

[pichuthedk]

If you jab her freefall, effectively cancelling it, wouldn't she be able to, for example, flip jump out of it?

No because there is a delay before you can really do anything IIRC, that's why i said approximately half of Samus' s height I would say higher like her shoulders length but that gives you more time to do what you just said.

I just and trying to see how long it takes the down smash to come out while she is still falling down.

Better example is if zelda Dairs you (soft hit) while your boost kicking you can't do another action for a small amount of time in the air.

 

[ScubaF_ingSteve]

Where is the frame date, character, and what percentages d-throw to up-b kills at?

 

[Shaya]

Everyone, depending on DI, at a lot of percent.
Most characters bar the fatties will very likely fall out.

So in general I'm only thinking about that against Zard, DK, Ganon, Bowser, ROB.

 

[Jaycee_023]

Who are three to five of ZSS's worst match ups to play against?

 

[Shaya]

Tiny Brawler is BS for her to deal with.

 

[Jaycee_023]

Thank you! I'm looking for a good secondary to go to under my ZSS main, and wanted to see what more knowledgeable people had to say about that question.

 

[Shaya]

Personally feel no match up is truly problematic for her at the moment. Some are tough to play against but none really invalidate or get in the way of her game plan executed properly (Sheik a little; but she really struggles to kill you while a poor aerial on your shield can kill her with Up-B OoS). I haven't played against Olimar enough to be certain about that assertion either.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Mind explaining Mario in more depth?

 

[Shaya]

He's a small character with really good safe aerials who can poke around our blind spots, abuse our lack of answers to shields, has very good mobility specs.

 

[NickRiddle]

So, I'm pretty sure it's placebo, but has anybody else noticed that the vacuum hitboxes for Boost Kick seem to work... differently?
People are barely falling out of mine now, and I am not doing anything differently.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

So, I'm pretty sure it's placebo, but has anybody else noticed that the vacuum hitboxes for Boost Kick seem to work... differently?
People are barely falling out of mine now, and I am not doing anything differently.

Feels the same to me honestly.
Also had a friend falling out of it a few times today (sheik player) so everything seems usual to me.
Maybe we should test it on the space animals.

 

[David Viran]

Feels the same to me honestly.
Also had a friend falling out of it a few times today (sheik player) so everything seems usual to me.
Maybe we should test it on the space animals.

Can confirm Fox still gets out of up b for free with less rage than everybody else by alot.

 

[Umby]

Hey, looking at possibly adding ZSS to my roster. Any basics I should know while I'm starting up training mode?

 

[A_Kae]

Someone I play very frequently is a ZSS main that I've been trying to help get better at the character, and smash in general, (he isn't too good). Unfortunately, I don't know nearly enough to help with ZSS.

So what would ZSS mains say is important for the character? What do you need to know, and what do you need to be doing?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Someone I play very frequently is a ZSS main that I've been trying to help get better at the character, and smash in general, (he isn't too good). Unfortunately, I don't know nearly enough to help with ZSS.

So what would ZSS mains say is important for the character? What do you need to know, and what do you need to be doing?

Wouldn't it be easier for him to just come here himself? It's all there already.

 

[A_Kae]

Wouldn't it be easier for him to just come here himself? It's all there already.

Probably, but he doesn't really care for smashboards.

Is there maybe some good ZSS guide I could point him to? I've found a few here, but I'm not sure if they're any good.
These, specifically:
http://smashboards.com/guides/zeroing-in-on-zero-suit-samus.32/
http://smashboards.com/threads/zero...ck-answer-thread.378683/page-16#post-19523414

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Probably, but he doesn't really care for smashboards.

Is there maybe some good ZSS guide I could point him to? I've found a few here, but I'm not sure if they're any good.
These, specifically:
http://smashboards.com/guides/zeroing-in-on-zero-suit-samus.32/
http://smashboards.com/threads/zero...ck-answer-thread.378683/page-16#post-19523414

I won't bother reading through the guides right now.
His basics should be proper spacing with nAir and bAir in the neutral and he needs to grind all her combos in training mode.
This is more than enough to start with.

 

[A_Kae]

I won't bother reading through the guides right now.
His basics should be proper spacing with nAir and bAir in the neutral and he needs to grind all her combos in training mode.
This is more than enough to start with.

Ok, thanks. I'll pass that on.

 

[KnuckaSammich]

When used as a spacing tool, is it better to FF her SH Nair or to regular fall it?

 

[DoctorDub]

How do I go about fighting a Ness?
As far as I can tell, it's a really bad matchup for us. Am I wrong?

 

[David Viran]

When used as a spacing tool, is it better to FF her SH Nair or to regular fall it?

You should mix up nairs from the apex of your SH and nairs right before you hit the ground. So use both.

 

[Muffin!]

Is it already known that nair true combos into boost kick until around 20-30%? Not sure of the utility since you may want to just grab instead, but it might be useful for a quick 26% if your opponent seems to be escaping your dthrow follow ups. Though I would throw it out there since I've never seen it in a match.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Is it already known that nair true combos into boost kick until around 20-30%? Not sure of the utility since you may want to just grab instead, but it might be useful for a quick 26% if your opponent seems to be escaping your dthrow follow ups. Though I would throw it out there since I've never seen it in a match.

Yes it's known. People avoid it since DI can mess up your aim.

 

[Cancel]

One question how do you dash in the with her paralyzer shot when u shoot it. For example if i run towards an opponet jump at him shot the paralyzer then glide backwards as soon as you shoot it. How do you do that.?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

One question how do you dash in the with her paralyzer shot when u shoot it. For example if i run towards an opponet jump at him shot the paralyzer then glide backwards as soon as you shoot it. How do you do that.?

That would be a RAR into a B-reverse.
To elaborate, you run at your opponent, turn around and cancel the turning animation with a jump.
You are now jumping at your opponent with your back facing him. If you now do a B-reverse, the momentum will switch in the opposite direction and you will face your opponent while firing the paralyzer right at him.

 

[KanjiGames]

One question how do you dash in the with her paralyzer shot when u shoot it. For example if i run towards an opponet jump at him shot the paralyzer then glide backwards as soon as you shoot it. How do you do that.?

Like @ Tobi_Whatever said RAR B-Reverse or a wavebounced neutral B would also work.

 

[Cancel]

Like @ Tobi_Whatever said RAR B-Reverse or a wavebounced neutral B would also work.

That would be a RAR into a B-reverse.
To elaborate, you run at your opponent, turn around and cancel the turning animation with a jump.
You are now jumping at your opponent with your back facing him. If you now do a B-reverse, the momentum will switch in the opposite direction and you will face your opponent while firing the paralyzer right at him.

Is there some kind of video that teaches how to do it or something.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Like @ Tobi_Whatever said RAR B-Reverse or a wavebounced neutral B would also work.

wavebounce would take longer though.

Is there some kind of video that teaches how to do it or something.

You could just have googled it but whatever

 

[Cancel]

wavebounce would take longer though.


You could just have googled it but whatever

Hey thanks alot i really appreciate it for sure.

 

[SphericalCrusher]

This question may need to go in the online Smash 4 section... or it may need it's own thread, but I'll post here. Zero Suit Samus players... how do you deal with playing this character online? I've just picked her up and been working on her a lot but I'm just having a hard time playing her online due to the input lag. I can't seem to time anything like I can offline, etc. I need to be able to play her online, since I don't have constant training partners to play offline with. Tips?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

This question may need to go in the online Smash 4 section... or it may need it's own thread, but I'll post here. Zero Suit Samus players... how do you deal with playing this character online? I've just picked her up and been working on her a lot but I'm just having a hard time playing her online due to the input lag. I can't seem to time anything like I can offline, etc. I need to be able to play her online, since I don't have constant training partners to play offline with. Tips?

Search for players offline and practice tech against bots and in training mode.
You can only do a fraction of what you are capable of offline and it teaches you bad habits on many ends.

 

[SphericalCrusher]

Search for players offline and practice tech against bots and in training mode.
You can only do a fraction of what you are capable of offline and it teaches you bad habits on many ends.

Finding offline players is something I do already, but that does not help me with playing online. I see people play online with ZSS often, Nairo included... just gotta figure out the input lag. I actually removed my GameCube extension cable and it helped with some of it. lol

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

So I've started trying ZSS for friendlies lately. What's her bnb aerial combo? I can't seem to land it as well as some players. I try DThrow into Uair and Fair but I usually only get one hit out of it.

 

[Peahnuts]

So I've started trying ZSS for friendlies lately. What's her bnb aerial combo? I can't seem to land it as well as some players. I try DThrow into Uair and Fair but I usually only get one hit out of it.

At 0%, most characters can airdodge after the first aerial before you can land a second aerial. Around 20% and onwards though, if you land a grab try dthrow > uair > uair, or uair > jump > uair. Fair is also good but is harder to follow up from. If you catch someone with a grab around 25-60% (depending on character), try uair > jump > uair > up-b. This is probably one of her most well-known combos, but you have to line it up properly.

Many things also combo off nair, if you land a SHFF nair at low-mid percent, it can often lead into a grab, then more aerials. Nair is super useful and can be followed up with a RAR bair or uair depending on spacing.

These are probably the basic bnb combos, but ZSS is one of the more 'free-flowing' characters in that many moves line-up or lead into other moves in creative manners. I'd say try practicing follow ups off dthrow and nair. Otherwise just watch tournament videos from whoever like Nairo or Choco and see what they do after grabs, paralyzers, nairs, or dsmashes.