Q&A Zero Suit Samus- Quick Question, Quick Answer Thread

[BatShark]

So I know this is one of the fundamental problems with the character, but what do you guys do when you notice your opponent is very clearly exploiting our lack of OOS and slow-ass grab? I.E. Their approach is to just stand on you in shield and wait for you to act, and you kind of hope they don't just read your escape roll.

Or is it pretty much just death, don't find yourself in that situation in the first place?

 

[Muffin!]

I don't think her OOS game is terrible it's just different and very character specific since you cant just fall back on your grab. Utilt comes out at frame 3 so thats a decent option for a good portion of the cast. For everyone else but little mac you can trump about anything with your frame 1 jab. Fox for example, really likes to sit on shield but your jab will trump anything the throws at you. It's not a hard punish and you may have to eat a jab or two, but it allows you to break free and get space and will discourage future shield sitting. You also have your flip kick get out of jail free card.

 

[BatShark]

Utilt loses to them standing on you in shield and you will eat a hard punish on block. So does jab, though sometimes a quick blocked jab 1 can buy you enough frames to get away. That was the premise of the question, though. The people that do this aren't doing it to race our offensive options, they're looking to punish on block or grab if you sit too long.

 

[Muffin!]

Oh sorry I missed the "standing on you in shield" part.

One thing I've seen nairo use to punish this is a short hop dair. It's obviously risky but if you know that's what they're doing landing it once can really discourage it.

I've never had much trouble with people sitting on me in shield. If I get hit, it's because they successfully baited an attack from me, not because they read my escape. Maybe you're looking for offensive options out of shield when you should be looking to create space? Just run away. Even if they read my escape there's pretty much nothing they can do about it because my mobility is almost always better than theirs. If they try and chase you you're in a great position to punish with a B reverse or turn around and grab (pivot usually whiffs).

Rolling away is often a bad option for the reasons you pointed out, but if you know they are looking for a grab jab is a good punish. F tilt spaces out a lot of attacks too.

Jumping out is good depending on your matchup. Cover your landing with nair. flip kick is usually good but can be problematic against some opponents and is easier to read.

Your best options is usually just to run. A stand ZSS is a dead ZSS

 

[DeLux]

Just ftilt on their shield like it's your job at the beginning of the match. It'll either shield poke or they'll stop sitting in shield to counter attack. Either way, you got something to work with

Drumming on their shield with ftilt is kind of hilarious, especially when you read their shield drop option and mixin a dtilt instead :D

 

[BatShark]

Just ftilt on their shield like it's your job at the beginning of the match. It'll either shield poke or they'll stop sitting in shield to counter attack. Either way, you got something to work with

Drumming on their shield with ftilt is kind of hilarious, especially when you read their shield drop option and mixin a dtilt instead :D

This works sometimes! I cover blocked Bair landings with it sometimes too but I guess I don't do it nearly as often when they're in grab range. I'll give it a try for some of the closer range stuff too. Thanks!

 

[Funkermonster]

Anyone know of a good guide somewhere for if I'm new to ZSS? Trying to experiment wit the roster and Zamus is next in line.

 

[Muffin!]

ZeRo has a basic guide on youtube, but if you're already fairly familiar with the game I suggest just watching high level gameplay.

 

[BrendanLee]

Does the down throw to down B work at any percent?

 

[Shaya]

Not really no, heavily DI dependent too. Pre-50% it's something you can reliably attempt (but it can be air dodged to some extent). But I've seen it work on heavier characters closer to 100%. Rage effects it a lot too.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Does the down throw to down B work at any percent?

dThrow > dSpecial? I don't think this works at all.
You can do bThrow > dSpecial kick though at certain percentages. It shows up as true combo in training but every character besides Puff and Kirby, who can instead DI up, can DI down to avoid it.
It's still a viable clutch combo though and saved my ass a few times.

 

[knu_OOKA]

Is SDI an effective means for getting out of ZSS's Boost Kick? If not, what are the best ways of avoiding the final hit?

 

[David Viran]

Mix up between DIing left and right.

 

[TrunksFuture]

I seem to rarely use side b whip unless I'm facing an opponent that can reflect. Any tips on mixing in the whip into my game or is it situation-al at best?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I seem to rarely use side b whip unless I'm facing an opponent that can reflect. Any tips on mixing in the whip into my game or is it situation-al at best?

Don't, it's pretty bad. You should use it for tether recovery though.

 

[DrLobster]

Does ZSS have the best dash dance in the game? As a non-ZSS main, I was just wondering.

 

[David Viran]

What? What do you mean dash dance? Are you talking about the little dash dance real fast in place and dance trot?

 

[DrLobster]

I mean. like, regular dash dancing. Just canceling the beginning dash animation with another dash animation in the other direction. Not sure what a dash trot is, though.

 

[David Viran]

Oh well all its used for are mind games with any character. I don't really know who would have the best one. Dance trotting is using Fox trots to extend your dash dance.

 

[BatShark]

Does ZSS have the best dash dance in the game? As a non-ZSS main, I was just wondering.

A friend of mine who is one of the only players I know currently using dash dancing effectively in this game was doing some ZSS dittos with me the other day and made this same remark.

I mean, I guess. I would think the metrics here are the speed of her dash startup and the distance of the initial dash, plus maybe some of the options out of it. All seem pretty good for us.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Hey all, I'm not very good at counting frames using the 1/4 speed... thing in training mode. So I could use some help from someone who can make that estimation.

It looks like there are no from-game-code numbers on when paralyzer ends for ZSS. For an uncharged shot, it fires on frame 21 and the bullet is active until frame 69. For a charged shot, it fires on frame 43 and the bullet is active until frame 113. However... I do not know when ZSS gets to move. This is useful information for attempting to theorize the viability of frame trapping with the paralyzer, so the help would be appreciated.

I'll give it a go later this week if nobody else as time, but help or useful instruction here would be fantastic. Thanks!

 

[Shaya]

The games at 240fps per second, essentially. Movement and interactions should still incur within those quarters our TVs/engine would normally forgo.

If you're recording (at 60fps) and are looking at frames with a program, things should be pretty consistent. Frame 5 is "first quarter of frame 2".
The shield object/animation takes 1.25 frames (or 5 in 1/4 mode) to show up on screen, so when you see it you can assume IASA of the frame number before divided by four.

 

[DrLobster]

I mean, I guess. I would think the metrics here are the speed of her dash startup and the distance of the initial dash, plus maybe some of the options out of it. All seem pretty good for us.

Yeah, it would probably be dependant on this. Someone should definitely make a graph of this somewhere.

 

[Heracr055]

Hello ZSS mains. I'm a Dark Pit main, but my character's forum is so inactive I felt I should ask here. My friend picked up ZSS recently, and he likes to abuse the following:
Blaster>Dthrow>Fair at low to mid percents
Blaster>Dthrow>UpB at higher percents
Blaster>FSmash
Down Special
He'll mix it up sometimes with side special, but the above is what he'll usually exploit. I've been playing this game for awhile, and tend to do alright against ZSS on For Glory, but I still have quite a bit of trouble against the way he plays her. He'll do the same thing most of the time, but I haven't found a way to avoid or exploit them. The range on her FSmash is far, her blaster sets her up to grab with her tether, her down throw is excellent for setting up another move, and her UpB and DownB have ridiculous knockback and kill at ridiculously low percents. In addition, I'll try to counter her blaster with Orbitars, but she'll shield it or be out of range of the reflected projectile, and get a free grab. What options do I have against her? Does she hate any particular style I can throw at her, such as a ranged game or hyper-offensive up close game with no breathing room?

 

[Shaya]

She hates shields and forward rolling in.
Blaster/paralyzer is minimum 20 frames, if you're within your forward roll range, on reaction (as you can forward roll at any point of your dash) is a free punish.

Most of her good options are front facing only, so when she's having to worry about shields (which she can only really grab, which you can react to and kill her for) and then reactive or smart forward rolling isn't covered by most of her buttons in the air or on the ground, you're gucci.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

So how many of you have noticed that we actually can get an uAir hit on rising SH?
Only works on Sheik height plus though and needs to be damn near perfect timing.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

So how many of you have noticed that we actually can get an uAir hit on rising SH?
Only works on Sheik height plus though and needs to be damn near perfect timing.

Whuuuuut. That's rad. Your height estimation means that we can make contact with...

Ganondorf, Bowser, Rosalina & Luma, Captain Falcon, Samus, Donkey Kong, King Dedede, Wii Fit Trainer, Zelda, Shulk, Marth, Zero Suit Samus, Palutena, Lucina, Link, Robin, ROB, Ike, Mewtwo, and Shiek

I'm guessing that some control changes are best suited for this. I.E. something that allows for jumping with the left hand and attacking with the right. Or, I suppose, a left hand claw grip.

I wonder if rising nair works too...

 

[pichuthedk]

I seem to rarely use side b whip unless I'm facing an opponent that can reflect. Any tips on mixing in the whip into my game or is it situation-al at best?

Things like wavebounce and b reversed side bs help alot for certain things, For example this is random however I noticed that when pikachus try to camp with thunder jolts I've managed to beat that option completely by breversing a SH side B at them.
The first hits cancel out the jolt and follow through letting you him away before he can do anything.

@ Tobi_Whatever I know it's pretty unsafe , Likely to get you killed , Shielded all day...wait why am I defending this move again -_-0.

*ahem* you could also stage spike people with it's low angled trajectory, aside from max ranging people or stage spiking them its basically depends on the character/playstyles you encounter.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Whuuuuut. That's rad. Your height estimation means that we can make contact with...

Ganondorf, Bowser, Rosalina & Luma, Captain Falcon, Samus, Donkey Kong, King Dedede, Wii Fit Trainer, Zelda, Shulk, Marth, Zero Suit Samus, Palutena, Lucina, Link, Robin, ROB, Ike, Mewtwo, and Shiek

I'm guessing that some control changes are best suited for this. I.E. something that allows for jumping with the left hand and attacking with the right. Or, I suppose, a left hand claw grip.

I wonder if rising nair works too...

I do it with z jump and cStick on attack.

 

[pichuthedk]

Has anyone gotten any combos on people they have just flip jump kick spiked into the ground when they didn't tech I almost landed some "please staph" level string on a Ness in GF yesterday subconsciously or something a tad salty It never came to fruition.

I had gotten a charged paralyzer on him his full body length off the ground so that when I kick with flip jump she could act up landing and tried to follow it up because he was unable to do anything,

Went like this I full hopped B-revered a lasered him -> flip jump kick spike into the stage (no tech and he had no DJ because of earlier use) and since he had no where to go but on the stage pretty much near the right edge of the stage, or try for ledge recovery I tried to close the distance and boost kick him unfortunately he fell out of the first hits because I wasn't close enough.

 

[Take 5]

Has anyone gotten any combos on people they have just flip jump kick spiked into the ground when they didn't tech I almost landed some "please staph" level string on a Ness in GF yesterday subconsciously or something a tad salty It never came to fruition.

I had gotten a charged paralyzer on him his full body length off the ground so that when I kick with flip jump she could act up landing and tried to follow it up because he was unable to do anything,

Went like this I full hopped B-revered a lasered him -> flip jump kick spike into the stage (no tech and he had no DJ because of earlier use) and since he had no where to go but on the stage pretty much near the right edge of the stage, or try for ledge recovery I tried to close the distance and boost kick him unfortunately he fell out of the first hits because I wasn't close enough.

I've gone for the boost kick follow-up on non-teched flip kick a few times--only successfully pulled it off once. Really depends on how close you are to your opponent after the flip kick (which in turn depends on their percentage pre-spike) to get them while in hitstun. Had the replay but the auto-update Mewtwo patch screwed me over :/

 

[pichuthedk]

I've gone for the boost kick follow-up on non-teched flip kick a few times--only successfully pulled it off once. Really depends on how close you are to your opponent after the flip kick (which in turn depends on their percentage pre-spike) to get them while in hitstun. Had the replay but the auto-update Mewtwo patch screwed me over :/

Yep sounds about right man oh well, I had to relearn the Ness MU yesterday when I faced one that adapted relatively easily to some of my bad habits in WF (knocked me into losers because of TRollphino, I got him in water missed spike and then stage was like BTW WE GOT TO GO and I was just *Sigh* moving on),

However despite that I made it to GF and then literally murdered him 2 games so he switched to shiek and then I had to Finalize the Nick Riddle shiek solution into my game. I was getting those boost kicks out of shield SO god damn well that again he decided to adapt and spot dodge upon landing which was annoying...
I think I jabbed him like 100 times because I didn't want to bother risking boostkick or downsmash and get grabbed.

Needless to say I won GF set 2 with a score of 3-1 walked out with 8x my investment which was nice =].

 

[Atm0s]

When is the best time to use a down-b? I'm new to ZSS and want to learn some of the basics of that move.

 

[Wa_Black]

is zss vunerable during their air frames of her down b. For example, if i'm falco and I jump predicting her to do it and i position my self to bair her at the apex of her down b, will I land it?
Mainly what i'm wondering is, can a zss see that i'm going for aerial and react to something before I can commit?
Even more specific is where during her down b can she no doing anything. I'm trying to find out to make effective reads on zss's that like the bounce around all day without chasing them around map.

 

[pichuthedk]

is zss vunerable during their air frames of her down b. For example, if i'm falco and I jump predicting her to do it and i position my self to bair her at the apex of her down b, will I land it?
Mainly what i'm wondering is, can a zss see that i'm going for aerial and react to something before I can commit?
Even more specific is where during her down b can she no doing anything. I'm trying to find out to make effective reads on zss's that like the bounce around all day without chasing them around map.

I'm regards to that the answer is both yes and no because you need to get there at the right time to get the results you want,
She does have invulnerability from down b to a point people say from around frame 3 -> the apex of her jump I feel like it is slightly before that.

ZSS can react for sure depending on how fast or slow you are.

If you are too slow zero suit can probably kick ASAP which with spike or knock you away, ignoring the footstool part of it.

Now if your fast enough meaning getting into the position she might be able to cheat death by controlling her horizontal momentum to make her move forward as little as possible. making her land at a distance that is say half of her downsmash's length.

Last thing unless your like sonic or one of the other insanely faster characters in the roster
You won't be catching zero suit if she doesn't want you to.

@ Atm0s if your uncomfortable with using her down b at the moment then it's best to try not to to Yolo with it because lack of discipline and control will just lose you stocks ,games and sets.

For now try to play and keep in mind some of the basic bread and butter down b follow ups.
you can down b when
-someone is stunned by either down smash or lasers (charged only)
[Expanding on that fully charged lasers on grounded opponents can be followed up with down b to put them in the ground and then land beside them and up b. If in doubt just kick them from the laser.

If they are downsmashed you'll have to react rather quickly and decide whether you want to jump first or not (% /rage based) ideally when you get good at it you get just about guaranteed stocks from these set ups.]

-when you want to keep people guessing by doing things like run up to them and then down b away.

-Instances when you hit someone away with moderate force a typical thing to do would be to jump down b towards them and seeing if they air dodge (not always important) upon seeing down b finish double jump and back air them.

Lol so I just realized there is nothing but Yolos after those few things with zss's down b

 

[CrazyPerson]

Did ZSS get any noticeable buffs/nerfs in the patch?

 

[Kesno]

Did ZSS get any noticeable buffs/nerfs in the patch?

If I were to say the bair hitbox covers her leg better now meaning I feel that it has gotten bigger. Before you could stand next to a character say Marth and SHFF bair him (when you are standing right next to him) and you would miss because you were too close. Now it seems that the hitbox has changed so that does not happen anymore. Like I said it only feels different I can't confirm with video proof, but it'd be nice to get a second opinion. Other than that I have not noticed a difference.

 

[Krysco]

I don't see an faq in the op and I'd rather not read 15 pages of questions so my apologies if this has already been asked but what is the best way to counter a ZSS using her down b towards you? Every time I try to counter it I usually either get sent into the ground or meteored if I try to deal with it in the air. Shielding doesn't seem to help since she kicks it and bounces away. For specific character punishes, anything these 5 can do would be great: . The answer is probably super easy and obvious (like I can imagine MK can just shield and then chase with nado or Ike can just land a well timed utilt or usmash) but the only time I ever run into ZSS players is on For Glory, usually doubles, which has lag :/.

 

[David Viran]

I don't see an faq in the op and I'd rather not read 15 pages of questions so my apologies if this has already been asked but what is the best way to counter a ZSS using her down b towards you? Every time I try to counter it I usually either get sent into the ground or meteored if I try to deal with it in the air. Shielding doesn't seem to help since she kicks it and bounces away. For specific character punishes, anything these 5 can do would be great: . The answer is probably super easy and obvious (like I can imagine MK can just shield and then chase with nado or Ike can just land a well timed utilt or usmash) but the only time I ever run into ZSS players is on For Glory, usually doubles, which has lag :/.

Sheild and chase or air dodge into the arc and force a footstool because she can't do anything before touching the ground after the footstool. If your character has a fast enough usmash you can actually usmash her while she hits your sheild with the flip stool thing because screw hit lag.

 

[Peahnuts]

I don't see an faq in the op and I'd rather not read 15 pages of questions so my apologies if this has already been asked but what is the best way to counter a ZSS using her down b towards you? Every time I try to counter it I usually either get sent into the ground or meteored if I try to deal with it in the air. Shielding doesn't seem to help since she kicks it and bounces away. For specific character punishes, anything these 5 can do would be great: . The answer is probably super easy and obvious (like I can imagine MK can just shield and then chase with nado or Ike can just land a well timed utilt or usmash) but the only time I ever run into ZSS players is on For Glory, usually doubles, which has lag :/.

I get bulk punished by mario's usmash if i find myself flip jumping too much. if you don't trust your timing though just shield and start chasing straight away. i'm not sure if any of your characters are fast enough but characters like falcon have more than enough time to catch up to her bounce on their shield and get a solid punish on her. Otherwise yeah, like what was just said you can airdodge if she doesn't initiate the kick which will make her footstool and you can chase that.