Q&A Zero Suit Samus- Quick Question, Quick Answer Thread

[Zelbur]

... What are you taking about?

He's talking about when the down B spikes:

• Any Time during the attack duration (w/o pressing A or B)
• First few frames of the kick (when you press A or B)

Since the kick has a long(ish) lasting hitbot, if you hit them with it later in the attack, it wont spike, but launch them about 45 degrees up in whatever direction you kicked.

Practice. You can try these on ZSS in training:

43% - 51% falling uAir > FJ uAir > DJ uAir > uSpecial
39% - 43% dThrow > FJ uAir > DJ uAir > uSpecial
39% - 47% dThrow > IDJ uAir > uSpecial

I tested them, all of them are true combos and work in the specified % range.
The percents of course change depending on your opponents character but I suggest you try to get it consistently on a normal height character first. I feel like uAir > uSpecial is all about remembering percents and getting a feeling for the correct height.

It's easier to land the finishing hit of Up B the higher percent your opponent is.
Also, keep in mind that people can DI differently than CPUs.

Tips on Captain Falcon?

You can zone him out pretty well with Neutral B

 

[Jaxas]

Micro-spacing with Nair is very good. Also with Zair and Bair. Against chars without ranged attacks/reflectors you can shoot some paralyzer shots. If you read a roll or land a Neutral B, grab and start a combo.
Also, Utilt does NOT give invincibility frames, but it comes out very early, like frame 3 (correct me if I'm wrong)

ZSS has her legs become invincible during some portion of Utilt if I remember right

 

[Zelbur]

ZSS has her legs become invincible during some portion of Utilt if I remember right

I think that might be because her heels are disjointed.... I said the above because I have traded on some Dairs when I use Utilt.

 

[David Viran]

Utilt her legs are invincible during the active frames I'm pretty sure.

 

[Zelbur]

Utilt her legs are invincible during the active frames I'm pretty sure.

You're probably right.

 

[Megamang]

How much do you guys charge the stun gun? I always do full shots cause I like that joocy punish, but I see other ZSS who are better than me firing off the small ones. How much charge is too little? can you just tap them out and still get a punish, assuming you are closeish?

 

[NickRiddle]

He's talking about when the down B spikes:

• Any Time during the attack duration (w/o pressing A or B)
• First few frames of the kick (when you press A or B)

Since the kick has a long(ish) lasting hitbot, if you hit them with it later in the attack, it wont spike, but launch them about 45 degrees up in whatever direction you kicked.

I mean, if you actually read the post I quoted, it said something about soft and weak spike, which is nonsense.
And, it's STILL hitting with the flames coming out of ZSS's boots, NOT how long the kick has been active; I have launched people to the side with the initial frames of the kick.

For the record, please edit your posts into one big post instead of making multiples posts in a row.
@ DeLux could you fix the multi-post please?

 

[BatShark]

Can you guys talk about Dsmash a bit? I'm *still* puzzling over the best way to incorporate it into my neutral & punish game. Aside from standard ledge-play with it, what situations are you guys looking for with it? I see a fair amount of empty hopping or use of it after a spaced Nair is blocked? People are looking to catch a shield drop, I'm thinking?

Just feel like I need to get away from the guesswork with this move because it's kind of amazing and I need to get a lot more mileage out of it.

 

[Shaya]

You do it when you know an aerial won't be coming out of them (most aerial actions will beat it) nor will they be able to roll into you.

 

[DeLux]

Can you guys talk about Dsmash a bit? I'm *still* puzzling over the best way to incorporate it into my neutral & punish game. Aside from standard ledge-play with it, what situations are you guys looking for with it? I see a fair amount of empty hopping or use of it after a spaced Nair is blocked? People are looking to catch a shield drop, I'm thinking?

Just feel like I need to get away from the guesswork with this move because it's kind of amazing and I need to get a lot more mileage out of it.

You know when an aerial is guaranteed or almost guaranteed? Don't throw an aerial and land and Dsmash the coming airdodge and you're in the business like a savant

 

[BatShark]

You do it when you know an aerial won't be coming out of them (most aerial actions will beat it) nor will they be able to roll into you.

So a safely spaced landing punish? (Same principle for Lux's response.)

What about defensive reaction conditioning, is there anyplace there you guys like it as a go-to or mixup? (Like once you've observed their reactions after jab1 on block, maybe?)

 

[David Viran]

I think what he was saying was if you do it when an aerial won't punish you and a roll in won't work than it's pretty much unpunishable.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

So yesterday I looked at the maximum spacing for neutral air. It's absolutely obnoxious! It's got a disjoint that comes out one ZSS body-length outside the whip animation! I can only hit it ~20% of the time though...

Was this widely known already? Would anyone be interested in some spacing photos for some of her moves? I think a visual representation of how far away these moves can land would be pretty helpful.

 

[David Viran]

So yesterday I looked at the maximum spacing for neutral air. It's absolutely obnoxious! It's got a disjoint that comes out one ZSS body-length outside the whip animation! I can only hit it ~20% of the time though...

Was this widely known already? Would anyone be interested in some spacing photos for some of her moves? I think a visual representation of how far away these moves can land would be pretty helpful.

I would like to see Bair.

 

[BatShark]

A visual on all of her disjoints would be amazing.

 

[Jaxas]

So yesterday I looked at the maximum spacing for neutral air. It's absolutely obnoxious! It's got a disjoint that comes out one ZSS body-length outside the whip animation! I can only hit it ~20% of the time though...

Was this widely known already? Would anyone be interested in some spacing photos for some of her moves? I think a visual representation of how far away these moves can land would be pretty helpful.

That would be incredibly helpful

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Rad, I'll look into it sometime soon!

 

[Kesno]

The nair itself is a strange move since you can't just fast fall it once you press the button you have to wait a bit for the whole hitbox to come out first before you FF it. Also I would like to see the whole active hitbox of Nair the front hitbox and the backward hitbox as well.
But anyway can I get some footsie tips for Fox and Yoshi. For yoshi I feel like I'm getting better at it since my friend mains him, but I wanta hear some more opinions on the MU. Yoshi is just an a**hole to fight in general, but you know. I know no Foxs and I fear that MU with a passion. I would really like to hear opinions on Fox more. Specifically ground game stuff and what to do if that little ferret feels like charging me and if he gets me into a uptilt combo at low %. The speed factor is one thing, but I feel like that MU is probably the hardest if not for ZS Samus the hardest for me.

 

[Shaya]

I recently realised a good way to practice this (nairing and bairing landing)
Speeds up your game a lot when you have confidence in it.

Pick character of a various heights (Kirby I think is naturally the shortest) and in training mode set the CPU to 'Walk'. They just walk from one side of the stage to the other. Keep trying to land aerials on them either moving towards you or away. Helps spacing and timing.

---

Yoshi MU can be a bit complicated, I personally feel eggs and down air are kinda the mental hurdles; punishing or approaching through eggs and successfully trapping/juggling Yoshi. If you're careful about how you jump it should really hamper how Yoshi ever gains a positional advantage over you, at his best he's hoping to trade with you favourably (as a heavier character) in grounded or aerial interactions and ZSS just has to focus on spacing and handling certain unique elements. Otherwise, zair beats everything yoshi does in the air horizontally. Be careful about Yoshi's nair out of shield as well, respect it, it means shielding after hitting shields a bit more often than trying to jab or up tilt.

Fox without customs is pretty easy, you outcamp him, you out damage him, you out combo him and you have a better recovery. You punish and trap the ****** and he's extreme combo fodder and dies very early. Dash attack is his most threatening tool here and will get consistent follow ups, expect it/play around it and you should be coming out on top (staple out of shield punishes like up-b, jab or up tilt are all pretty reliable except for his back air). You can get a bit trapped by up tilt but it's not that bad, be ready to avoid the up air or bair when you jump out of it, down-b can also help. In relation to his jab, the 1-2 repetition isn't guaranteed against ZSS most of the time, as she'll be able to jab Fox first every time, however Fox can still shield first and if you jab his shield you'll get punished, an awkward 50/50 but it's better than most characters (you'll probably get away with roll aways often).
Customs changed things... just the single one... the falco laser. Turns the match up into ZSS chasing Fox the entire time as he is going to do nothing but run away from you, you no longer outcamp him and getting in against it is a lot more complicated. The laser itself clashes (unlike falcos) so it's not too dire (our paralyzer is fine), but it still makes closing in on every action he makes (our mobilities are so similar, ZSS' aerial mobility will be noticeable clincher in a lot of situations) really tedious and you're likely getting dash attacked. However the destruction Fox receives at the foot of the heels is still pretty consistent. This is honestly THE match up where you should probably be taking the alternative blaster for ZSS, I haven't personally vested much time doing either (using the laser or using it against Fox), but I see the merit here more than elsewhere.

 

[David Viran]

Can't we crawl under the space animals lasers?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Can't we crawl under the space animals lasers?

Yes we can, I do it to mock them on FG all the time.

 

[Shaya]

Dash away pivot laser and using it as a landing trap is reallllllllly good.
By camping I don't mean standing on the other side of the stage and mashing B

 

[LordShade67]

Can't we crawl under the space animals lasers?

To add to this, Zamus can also crawl under straight arrows from the Pits and Robin's Thunder.

 

[TrunksBrief]

To add to this, Zamus can also crawl under straight arrows from the Pits and Robin's Thunder.

This is a big deal, especially Robin's Thunder

 

[Sneakygamer37]

Can anyone give me tips for the ZSS matchup? It's my least favorite matchup as Toon Link.

 

[Shaya]

How confident is your ground movement?
Toon Link is short and nimble, this is often a major pain for her to deal with.
You can use your boomerang at any point of a dash and you should also be confident in cancelling your run (i.e. post "fox trot" [dash to run animation]) with bomb pulls or arrow shooting.
Getting the kill can be hard for both characters, if you can react / bait the grab you'll be given a free kill (dash up smash or dash grab back throw) while the opposite is usually a little bit less guaranteed for her (I think your grab recovery is noticeably less than hers?).

Basically chip damage her and let the opportunities for kills come to you. Be very wary of throwing something point blank into her shield, as Boost Kick will be the main way she looks at punishing you at kill percent (dash to shields etc).

Jump air dodge through her down-b/flip jump for a free up air or up smash chase punish. In general your up air will beat down-b anyway.

 

[David Viran]

How confident is your ground movement?
Toon Link is short and nimble, this is often a major pain for her to deal with.
You can use your boomerang at any point of a dash and you should also be confident in cancelling your run (i.e. post "fox trot" [dash to run animation]) with bomb pulls or arrow shooting.
Getting the kill can be hard for both characters, if you can react / bait the grab you'll be given a free kill (dash up smash or dash grab back throw) while the opposite is usually a little bit less guaranteed for her (I think your grab recovery is noticeably less than hers?).

Basically chip damage her and let the opportunities for kills come to you. Be very wary of throwing something point blank into her shield, as Boost Kick will be the main way she looks at punishing you at kill percent (dash to shields etc).

Jump air dodge through her down-b/flip jump for a free up air or up smash chase punish. In general your up air will beat down-b anyway.

Not the kick off down b. If she can it don't challenge it. That thing almost never loses. Dodging it is always better.

 

[Shaya]

I'm getting better at challenging the kick head on with my other characters :D
But yeah, primarily meant the flip jump part, you have to be ballsy to want take it on.

 

[Sneakygamer37]

How confident is your ground movement?
Toon Link is short and nimble, this is often a major pain for her to deal with.
You can use your boomerang at any point of a dash and you should also be confident in cancelling your run (i.e. post "fox trot" [dash to run animation]) with bomb pulls or arrow shooting.
Getting the kill can be hard for both characters, if you can react / bait the grab you'll be given a free kill (dash up smash or dash grab back throw) while the opposite is usually a little bit less guaranteed for her (I think your grab recovery is noticeably less than hers?).

Basically chip damage her and let the opportunities for kills come to you. Be very wary of throwing something point blank into her shield, as Boost Kick will be the main way she looks at punishing you at kill percent (dash to shields etc).

Jump air dodge through her down-b/flip jump for a free up air or up smash chase punish. In general your up air will beat down-b anyway.

I'm very confident with my ground movement. Although the only time I run is when I'm running away or to get a punish.

I have actually never thought about using Toon Link's fox trot that much before, mostly because in my experience it hasn't helped at all.
As for Toon Link's bow, the only time I use it is when I use the Fire Arrow custom.

To be honest, I never have trouble getting the kill with Toon Link. Mostly due to all the bombs I use.

I'll be sure to work on baiting Zero Suit's laggy moves.

And I didn't think about using Toon Link's up air for the flip part of her down b.
Thanks for the help. I'll be sure to keep these in mind for the Zero Suit match up.

 

[Snackss]

How does the Flip Jump even work? I always get the spike/ bury, I don't know how to do the regular knockback kick.

 

[David Viran]

Just press the attack button during flip jump.

 

[Snackss]

And is there a way to make it so Zero Suit doesn't kick at all even if she comes within range?

 

[Megamang]

So she does neither attack? I don't believe so. Jumping at ZSS and airdodging the attack then attacking her landing is a guaranteed punish, actually.

 

[David Viran]

It is not a guaranteed punish because she can still control where she lands.

 

[Shaya]

Yeah she has no lag on landing (except with the kick), but you can do whatever you want before she gets there.

 

[SwagyShiek5044]

What is a good secondary for zzs main??

 

[Shaya]

Sheik.
Cover the play styles you despise of people trying to camp you non stop.

 

[David Viran]

Noone she's perfect.

 

[NickRiddle]

Dafuk is a ZZS?

 

[Shaya]

Yeah, ZSS is perfect, I agree.
I really only brought out Sheik for certain match ups with CUSTOMS. And that was before the patch.
I don't know if I actually care to switch anymore, Flip Jump is so ****ing stupid I don't even know how I'm meant to lose.

Why even boost kick when you can flip jump?