AyatoK26
Smash Journeyman
Lol. I see what you did there.
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Zelda's Personal Matchup Thread
- Thread starter Fluttershy
- Start date
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
I doubt my playstyle would differ greatly from offline to online.
Okay let's see online then. :D
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Here are some old vids that I have I don't have any recorded vs pika or ZSS.
VS Lucario
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlOujwbYI0M&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z6XA1i46bY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvd-VlZOigQ
VS d3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr6jQxkvQkk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_6cb3KZL38
Those are the only vids I have against those guys and I won't be able to get any MU's uploaded anytime soon. Unless I decide to get a recoder of my own which is something I wouldn't mind doing. But then I'd have to buy brawl again since the one I have currently doesn't play all the characters (which is something I don't want to do for $45). But we'll see. I still more or less play like that.
Fuujin
Smash Champion
Scary is just delusional.
Don't worry about it.
All I gotta say is that I think Wifi makes players worse than they actually are and I hope the D3 doesn't play that way in real life...
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
I couldn't tell you how those d3's play IRL or if they even play IRL` I let you in on a secret though a lot of top players play online.
just outta curiosity what region are you from?
I'm from WC Canada.
I suddenly feel like playing Wi-Fi.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Okay thnx.
Fluttershy
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is up...I hate yellow pikmen
-4 no contest at all. Blues and purples completely destroy Zelda. Olimar completely outranges Zelda with smashes and grabs. Pikmin throw gives Zelda a lot of troubles. Purple up smash kills Zelda at 90% and the grabs kill slightly later...
inb4ALsaysits+4Zelda
inb4ALsaysits+4Zelda
grab grab grab, throw pikmin hmmm what else...
I really don't know how the hell I play this, but I thought of something that seemed to be a good idea as it actually worked...
try to be not that far so he throws some pikmin but obviously try to not get "pikmined" or as few as possible and he'll have few pikmin remaining and is like a good chance to get some damage or the gimp if everything goes right...
still I don't think a smart olimar will let that happen
it's like the worst thing ever, it isn't even funny or anything in this one I have to say it's a -4 it just sucks
I really don't know how the hell I play this, but I thought of something that seemed to be a good idea as it actually worked...
try to be not that far so he throws some pikmin but obviously try to not get "pikmined" or as few as possible and he'll have few pikmin remaining and is like a good chance to get some damage or the gimp if everything goes right...
still I don't think a smart olimar will let that happen
it's like the worst thing ever, it isn't even funny or anything in this one I have to say it's a -4 it just sucks
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
I think the only redeeming quality in this MU is that we can possibly get early kills thanks to Dtilt and Dsmash. Otherwise, mostly agree with everything that's been said.
In between -3/-4 for me, closer to -3 but still our worst MU.
In between -3/-4 for me, closer to -3 but still our worst MU.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
I once saw Ven take Rich Brown to his last stock so Ima say +6 Zelda.
Mocha
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One of my most hated MUs... and one of my most known. This is probably one of my most commonly played MUs.
Pikmin throw. Almost every competent and non competent Olimar you fight will start off the match by throwing pikmin at you. They do this to rack up damage, and force you to approach. Pikmin are unique 'projectiles' due to the different properties each color has, and the fact that just shielding them will not help, unlike other projectiles. In fact, shielding them will just cause the pikmin to latch on your shield and deal damage. However I do believe you can shield purple pikmin. Each pikmin color can mess you up in several ways...
Red: Can stop Din's Fire, does decent damage as an up air. Probably the least annoying pikmin imo
Blue: These don't actually stop any of your moves but they are powerful with back throw, and even up smash. Oh and they are the only pikmin that don't die in the water, in case you're at Delfino.
Yellow: VERY annoying pikmin for us due to it having electrical properties and stopping our own electrical moves. Also makes a decent up smash KO
White: Travels the furthest when thrown, and if you don't shake it off once it latches on you, it can deal ******** damage. Worst thing ever is if you're stuck using Din's Fire while that thing is on you, or he can latch it on you, grab/pummel for extra damage
Purple: Godly KO power, especially with upsmash. As a throwing pikmin, it goes the shortest distance, but what makes this different from the others is that this pikmin has actual knockback when it hits you
How do we deal with these little buggers? Well we have several ways, but I'll go over the most practical (at least in my opinion) way. We can use our Nair to shake off the pikmin... even the yellow ones! This is yet another reason for Zeldas to make better use of Nair Cancels, because we can mix in our pikmin gtfo move with follow-ups. The main problem with Nair Cancel against Olimar is his upsmash, which I'll get into in a bit. Zelda's down tilt can also stop pikmin, however this is most notably when he's near the edge. You can KILL pikmin if you hit him at the edge, which is very bad for him because if he starts losing pikmin from your d-tilt, it's a free gimp against him. You can also reflect pikmin with Nayru's Love, however as everyone knows, this can be baited and punished due to Nayru's cooldown, so be careful with how you use it. I rarely use Zelda's other attacks to shake pikmin off, because I want them all fresh, though I wouldn't be surprised if her smashes can knock some of them away (except for maybe yellow, unless it's a down smash).
So how do we approach this guy once we try and get past his pikmin throw? Well, first off, always be expecting Olimars to grab/pivot grab you when you start getting close - and upsmash if you're at high percents. I'd spent a certain about of time simply Nairing for awhile to shake off pikmin and show him that I'm actually going to try and mix it up as to when I approach him rather than just rush in wildly. As you're Nairing, try and pay attention to how many Pikmin he has left, and what colors. If he's just throwing pikmin and he's running low, that would be my cue to start approaching. If you're at high percents and he has a couple of purple pikmin out, I would think twice before approaching.
As nice as nair cancel is, his upsmash sadly can shut down this option if we're not careful. If we manage to nair cancel just out of reach of his upsmash and try to punish, that could be an idea, however keep in mind that his upsmash isn't exactly slow at coolodown, even if he does miss.
Another great move to use against Olimar as an approach is dash attack. Mind you, don't be predictable with it (or he'll grab you out of it). Dash attack him near the edge and it either knocks him up for you to nair, up air, or punish his landing. Or it'll knock him in front of you, in which you can follow up with another dash attack or dash grab. Also if you knock him off stage with dash attack, go for the edgehog. His recovery sucks. Just be careful with random pikmin stage spikes
Upsmashing his landing is great. Even if he whistles, the multi-hit will still have a chance to hit him, though keep in mind that it is possible for him to whistle + upsmash of his own if he manages to time it perfectly.
Nair also puts a lot of pressure on him if he's on a platform, and is a decent juggling tool against him. His own nair can sometimes stop our nair approaches though. Speaking of Olimar's nair, they like to nair cancel into upsmash. It is possible to SDI his nair, but tricky because it requires fast, immediate reaction.
Also, Zelda's f-throw at low percents can possibly follow-up with a sweet spot fair if you buffer it just right.
Pikmin throw. Almost every competent and non competent Olimar you fight will start off the match by throwing pikmin at you. They do this to rack up damage, and force you to approach. Pikmin are unique 'projectiles' due to the different properties each color has, and the fact that just shielding them will not help, unlike other projectiles. In fact, shielding them will just cause the pikmin to latch on your shield and deal damage. However I do believe you can shield purple pikmin. Each pikmin color can mess you up in several ways...
Red: Can stop Din's Fire, does decent damage as an up air. Probably the least annoying pikmin imo
Blue: These don't actually stop any of your moves but they are powerful with back throw, and even up smash. Oh and they are the only pikmin that don't die in the water, in case you're at Delfino.
Yellow: VERY annoying pikmin for us due to it having electrical properties and stopping our own electrical moves. Also makes a decent up smash KO
White: Travels the furthest when thrown, and if you don't shake it off once it latches on you, it can deal ******** damage. Worst thing ever is if you're stuck using Din's Fire while that thing is on you, or he can latch it on you, grab/pummel for extra damage
Purple: Godly KO power, especially with upsmash. As a throwing pikmin, it goes the shortest distance, but what makes this different from the others is that this pikmin has actual knockback when it hits you
How do we deal with these little buggers? Well we have several ways, but I'll go over the most practical (at least in my opinion) way. We can use our Nair to shake off the pikmin... even the yellow ones! This is yet another reason for Zeldas to make better use of Nair Cancels, because we can mix in our pikmin gtfo move with follow-ups. The main problem with Nair Cancel against Olimar is his upsmash, which I'll get into in a bit. Zelda's down tilt can also stop pikmin, however this is most notably when he's near the edge. You can KILL pikmin if you hit him at the edge, which is very bad for him because if he starts losing pikmin from your d-tilt, it's a free gimp against him. You can also reflect pikmin with Nayru's Love, however as everyone knows, this can be baited and punished due to Nayru's cooldown, so be careful with how you use it. I rarely use Zelda's other attacks to shake pikmin off, because I want them all fresh, though I wouldn't be surprised if her smashes can knock some of them away (except for maybe yellow, unless it's a down smash).
So how do we approach this guy once we try and get past his pikmin throw? Well, first off, always be expecting Olimars to grab/pivot grab you when you start getting close - and upsmash if you're at high percents. I'd spent a certain about of time simply Nairing for awhile to shake off pikmin and show him that I'm actually going to try and mix it up as to when I approach him rather than just rush in wildly. As you're Nairing, try and pay attention to how many Pikmin he has left, and what colors. If he's just throwing pikmin and he's running low, that would be my cue to start approaching. If you're at high percents and he has a couple of purple pikmin out, I would think twice before approaching.
As nice as nair cancel is, his upsmash sadly can shut down this option if we're not careful. If we manage to nair cancel just out of reach of his upsmash and try to punish, that could be an idea, however keep in mind that his upsmash isn't exactly slow at coolodown, even if he does miss.
Another great move to use against Olimar as an approach is dash attack. Mind you, don't be predictable with it (or he'll grab you out of it). Dash attack him near the edge and it either knocks him up for you to nair, up air, or punish his landing. Or it'll knock him in front of you, in which you can follow up with another dash attack or dash grab. Also if you knock him off stage with dash attack, go for the edgehog. His recovery sucks. Just be careful with random pikmin stage spikes
Upsmashing his landing is great. Even if he whistles, the multi-hit will still have a chance to hit him, though keep in mind that it is possible for him to whistle + upsmash of his own if he manages to time it perfectly.
Nair also puts a lot of pressure on him if he's on a platform, and is a decent juggling tool against him. His own nair can sometimes stop our nair approaches though. Speaking of Olimar's nair, they like to nair cancel into upsmash. It is possible to SDI his nair, but tricky because it requires fast, immediate reaction.
Also, Zelda's f-throw at low percents can possibly follow-up with a sweet spot fair if you buffer it just right.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
There's a lot of oli's in TX mocha ?
Mocha
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Yep! Especially now since MK is going to be banned.
Most notable Olimars I've played here so far are Denti and Sync. There are some others too that I can't remember the name atm. Oh and Dabuz is coming to TX this weekend for the Lone Star Circuit tourney to MM Ultimate Razer's Snake, and yeah, that'd be cool if I get a chance to play him
Most notable Olimars I've played here so far are Denti and Sync. There are some others too that I can't remember the name atm. Oh and Dabuz is coming to TX this weekend for the Lone Star Circuit tourney to MM Ultimate Razer's Snake, and yeah, that'd be cool if I get a chance to play him
Mocha
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WTH it came out as a double post. Feel free to delete this Kat <.<
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Ah, I see thats cool
I think Asa's flying over to be in that tourney too Mocha.
You want a reason how Sheik helps Zelda AL? Olimar.
Think I might set AL to ignore soon...
You want a reason how Sheik helps Zelda AL? Olimar.
Think I might set AL to ignore soon...
Mocha
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Really? Cool! I'll be looking forward to playing someone from DarkMusician's region! There are so many money matches for this tournament, it's crazy! ;o
Bryan destroys my Zelda so badly. And like you said he has mu experience from DM.
He said to me you have a really good Zelda. Think you'll like him he's a very energetic guy in real life.
He said to me you have a really good Zelda.
Think you'll like him he's a very energetic guy in real life.AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
LoL sheik does something against oli ?I think Asa's flying over to be in that tourney too Mocha.
You want a reason how Sheik helps Zelda AL? Olimar.
Think I might set AL to ignore soon...
Mocha
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Yeah Oli is tough, especially one that knows the Zelda MU.Bryan destroys my Zelda so badly. And like you said he has mu experience from DM.
He said to me you have a really good Zelda.
And he seems like a nice enough guy, talked to him a couple of times on AiB's chat. I can't wait!
MechaWave
Smash Champion
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-4, no questions asked.
Most of my MU experience with this is with Peach, seeing as how she has a +1 against him or something, so I rarely pick Zelda, so I can't give a huge take with this one. Olimar will always have the lead in this MU.
Once we get to D3 I'll give much more insight.
Most of my MU experience with this is with Peach, seeing as how she has a +1 against him or something, so I rarely pick Zelda, so I can't give a huge take with this one. Olimar will always have the lead in this MU.
Once we get to D3 I'll give much more insight.
^Might as well give your two cents then since we already passed D3.
AyatoK26
Smash Journeyman
-4 Probably the most one sided non-cg or non-infinited MU in the game, bar MK vs Ganon.
Don't approach? Pikmin Toss forces you to approach
Approach? His Grabs, smashes, and aerials are all better than ours by a wide margin.
Force him to approach? With what? Let's not even go there.
Not trying to be overly pessimistic but yea, it's that bad. -4
Don't approach? Pikmin Toss forces you to approach
Approach? His Grabs, smashes, and aerials are all better than ours by a wide margin.
Force him to approach? With what? Let's not even go there.
Not trying to be overly pessimistic but yea, it's that bad. -4
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
um...... do numbers even matter in this matchup? Its terrible, bordering on unwinnable. tips would be nice in this matchup...... but I'd rather just switch to peach vs. Olimar.
Hard counter. 85:15 Olimar. Sounds right to me... not like it matters. point is, we know to avoid this matchup if we can :/
Hard counter. 85:15 Olimar. Sounds right to me... not like it matters. point is, we know to avoid this matchup if we can :/
it's one of the things that make me go so mad regarding MK's ban =_=
another thing to remember is that when he's pulling pikmin out he can do whatever he wants instantly be it a smash or whatever else, but most commonly used is Fsmash ._.
sometimes has happened to me that this little $"$%$"!"#$"%$ managed to get past the whole(?) Usmash with whistle's super armor... we could bait the whistle and punish hard but still is hard to do... at least for me...
*goes to check frame data*
another thing to remember is that when he's pulling pikmin out he can do whatever he wants instantly be it a smash or whatever else, but most commonly used is Fsmash ._.
sometimes has happened to me that this little $"$%$"!"#$"%$ managed to get past the whole(?) Usmash with whistle's super armor... we could bait the whistle and punish hard but still is hard to do... at least for me...
*goes to check frame data*
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
a bit off topic, but I always thought shiek vs. ganondorf was worse than Olimar vs. Zelda . . . not like thats saying much . . .
Fuujin
Smash Champion
Guyz I beat my friend who is a very good olimar in tournament.
This is probably no worse than 0 for Zelda.
+2 if youre using Sheik.
Video for proof.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVqBQez5_D0
I'm contributing and posting a video to back up my statement.
This is probably no worse than 0 for Zelda.
+2 if youre using Sheik.
Video for proof.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVqBQez5_D0
I'm contributing and posting a video to back up my statement.
that's super cool fujen. good posts should be treated with good responses. so is this my cue to start talking about what that olimar did wrong and why i disagree with ur number? should be... but according to some...nope... i should be calling you delusional instead and leaving it at that was my point not clear?
edit: i think campy olimar is unwinnable imo. deals too much damage and walls her out of everything. o down b we love uuu the only saving grave is having him offstage. i think once he's knocked into the air/offstage she has to be on to him like a tramp on chips with successful godly reads otherwise it's game over. ven/rich brown was exciting but you could see rich brown was in control of that entire round. Ven got in some amazeballz kicks and kept it close but even with godly reads you can see how difficult the matchup is, plus we couldn't see round 2 of that set.
was my point not clear?edit: i think campy olimar is unwinnable imo. deals too much damage and walls her out of everything. o down b we love uuu
the only saving grave is having him offstage. i think once he's knocked into the air/offstage she has to be on to him like a tramp on chips with successful godly reads otherwise it's game over. ven/rich brown was exciting but you could see rich brown was in control of that entire round. Ven got in some amazeballz kicks and kept it close but even with godly reads you can see how difficult the matchup is, plus we couldn't see round 2 of that set.
Keyo~Zakuya
Smash Cadet
Awesome this is still going? I can't wait until it's complete!
I think the one thing that destroyed this thread is the word "personal". Anecdotal proof is great and all that but seriously?