Zelda's Personal Matchup Thread

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

lol this is probably just about 50:50.

I mean Dedede has a huge advantage in the fact that he's just a really really solid character whose grab and back air are totally broken, but . . .

The interaction between waddle dees and Din's Fire actually, for once, favours Zelda and means that Dedede can't camp us (though he can still poke ). Also, Dedede's recovery, though good, is very susceptable to Zelda's precision air game if you work on your accuracy and technical skill.



Anyway, this matchup frustrates me because it seems like Zelda has EVERY advantage in it, but Dedede's stupid, broken, just plain too-good-ness prevents Zelda from actually having an advantaged matchup or the ability to counter a high tier. That having been said, Zelda performs really well against Dedede given their huge difference on the tier chart and is probably the last reasonable matchup you're going to see for Zelda in this thread :/

 

[Alacion]

You guys CAN'T be serious. 0 and +4 Zelda's favour?

Din's and Waddle Throw can trade I suppose, but trading will always be in D3's favour. Also, Waddle Throw also gives offstage pressure to Zelda and she can't really Din's in that situation.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Oh I just always avoid it.

lol same.

Uh, I'd say it's -1 for us. Most of it's been outlined already, but basically I try to kill him with back or forward air.

It's really hard to not sweetspot the move. lol

Added that Dedede dies easily off the sides (compared to others of his weight class), that's what we should try to do anyway.

D-smash is the other alternative, but I don't like killing with that move.

Dedede can tech chase is really bad if we land on the ground.

NEVAR LAND ON THE GROUND. D:

Also Bair walls. halp.

Thankfully his shield is hilariously bad, but be careful of spotdodges. Thankfully (again) all our smashes beat the spotdodge. Up and forward smash last a long time, and d-smash goes way through the z-axis with hitboxes, so it can hit him out of spotdodge as well.

lolz, the spotdodge is so gud.

Edit:

Bair beats up-smash assuming they come from the side. Dair beats up-smash iirc, but only *just* since they're about just as disjointed as each other.

Be careful of Waddle Dee's and Doo's. They're really annoying. If you get caught in the laser eye ones, SDI away like carzy cuz Dedede will obviously try to follow it up.

 

[Alacion]

Oh the horrors of Waddle Doo follow ups >_>

 

[MechaWave]

D3 is definitely a -1. Most information about him has been given already.

 

[| Big D |]

D3 is definitely a -4. He can time you out with his jethammer skid and can punish your recovery hard if he grabs the ledge. It's like an fsmash evrytime you up b.

His dthrow is ridiculous. So many follow ups. He has a guaranteed dthrow > jab > jab > jab fsmash.

It's a jab lock and it's ridiculous.

And don't even get me started on upthrow to up b.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

up throw to up b is so legit.

Obviously this is a -4 matchup based on up throw to up b itself.

Also ftilt > ftilt is a standing infinite.

 

[MechaWave]

D3 is definitely a -4. He can time you out with his jethammer skid and can punish your recovery hard if he grabs the ledge. It's like an fsmash evrytime you up b.

His dthrow is ridiculous. So many follow ups. He has a guaranteed dthrow > jab > jab > jab fsmash.

It's a jab lock and it's ridiculous.

And don't even get me started on upthrow to up b.

Wha—what? ._.

 

[Mocha]

Lol...


.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

What is going on in here......?

 

[Alacion]

Lol just ignore that. He's my main source of DDD mu experience, and always trolls about Zelda.

 

[AyatoK26]

Lol just ignore that. He's my main source of DDD mu experience, and always trolls about Zelda.

That makes sense lol

I was like... HUH?!?!

Edit: Are we done with fatty mcfatty? Can we move on?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Heads up guys, MU chart had another stage so it won't be out for a little longer. I'll keep giving these updates on it's release but for right now I'm not to sure when it comes out lmao.

 

[Fluttershy]

Edit: Are we done with fatty mcfatty? Can we move on?

We are now is up

I honestly think this is close to even. Most of the things Pikachu can do usually won't work as much with Zelda. Minus the camping, Pika's speed, and QAC.

 

[Alacion]

-2 to -3. Explanation to come someday.

inb4+4Zelda

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I think Zelda wins this MU 6-4 Big Z.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Pikachu really never seemed to terrible to me. And, at least, Zelda certainly performs better against the little rat than Shiek does, so, I don't know. Maybe -1?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

This is a problem for me. The problem is that ESAM is literally an outlier for Pika. Playing against him, he does not let Zelda land safely at all so it becomes a serious guessing game. Pika can also kill us fairly well since he can punish out landings so well. He can juggle us with his Uair and in general that move is obnoxious.

Now.....the reason I mention ESAM as an outlier, is because I've lit up every other Pika.

Considering top of the metagame is ESAM though.....I can't say anything else but -2. I can make a million cases for -1 but tippy top exp tells me otherwise....

 

[MechaWave]

Ah yes, ESAM. I thought ESAM was a girl...? > _>

Gotta say this MU is a -1 for me. Zelda's anorexia comes in handy in this MU. Unfortunately Pika is small, and landing lightning kicks is trickier on him, and a few other tricks she has. Pika can (and will) force Zelda to approach with Thunder Jolt (B), and Nayru (being as slow as it is) just won't cut it. Dthrow followups are Dtilts will be an issue to land here.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Pika can (and will) force Zelda to approach with Thunder Jolt (B), and Nayru (being as slow as it is) just won't cut it.

At least Din's can destroy thunder jolt AND still hit pika

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Pikachu doesn't force Zelda to approach unless she doesn't have the percent/stock lead.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

This is a problem for me. The problem is that ESAM is literally an outlier for Pika. Playing against him, he does not let Zelda land safely at all so it becomes a serious guessing game. Pika can also kill us fairly well since he can punish out landings so well. He can juggle us with his Uair and in general that move is obnoxious.

Now.....the reason I mention ESAM as an outlier, is because I've lit up every other Pika.

Considering top of the metagame is ESAM though.....I can't say anything else but -2. I can make a million cases for -1 but tippy top exp tells me otherwise....

So against esam -2 vs every other pika not esam +2. thanks for the input.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I wish I had a vid or two of me vs. ESAM. Watch Ven vs. Z. It's a really good showing of how the MU is. The problem is that ESAM is still even better.

It's biased yes but it's my honest opinion.

 

[MechaWave]

Pikachu doesn't force Zelda to approach unless she doesn't have the percent/stock lead.

They'll do it anyways.

So against esam -2 vs every other pika not esam +2. thanks for the input.

Pretty much.

 

[Alacion]

Can't tell if serious...

 

[ElDominio]

Defend your character!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=13627030#post13627030

You're all being called out on the official matchup threads on Competitive Discussion... Go defend Zelda!!

 

[Alacion]

You know Zelda sucks when the Zelda mains are attacking Zelda rather than defending her.

 

[Fuujin]

Defend your character!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=13627030#post13627030

You're all being called out on the official matchup threads on Competitive Discussion... Go defend Zelda!!

lol oh god

inb4 Zelda goes 0 with Dedede

 

[Chuee]

lol oh god

inb4 Zelda goes 0 with Dedede

Zelda beats D3.
100% serious

 

[Alacion]

Zelda beats D3.
100% serious

As serious as almost everybody else in this thread.

 

[Chuee]

As serious as almost everybody else in this thread.

No, watching Fuujin against Atomsk almost 2 years ago made me realise something.
Zelda hard counters

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

herself

 

[Alacion]

For whatever reason, that actually seems to be the case...

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I wish I had a vid or two of me vs. ESAM. Watch Ven vs. Z. It's a really good showing of how the MU is. The problem is that ESAM is still even better.

It's biased yes but it's my honest opinion.

I think I watched that vid a couple of weeks ago they were on YI I believe.... I don't think I watched the whole thing.... I understand Ven is supposed to be a really good Zelda but I saw too many things I didn't like so I clicked out of it. Maybe he was having a bad day or maybe I'm being too critical.

 

[Chuee]

I think I watched that vid a couple of weeks ago they were on YI I believe.... I don't think I watched the whole thing.... I understand Ven is supposed to be a really good Zelda but I saw too many things I didn't like so I clicked out of it. Maybe he was having a bad day or maybe I'm being too critical.

its just you being jealous

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

its just you being jealous

If you say so.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

gwilenqudicdsjdadj

Zelda loses to Dedede. At least -2.

Wait, haven't I said this?

Can't remember lol.



edit:

Oh Pikachu.

umm, probs -2 as well.

It is surprisingly difficult to kill.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

It is surprisingly difficult to kill.

Pika's recovery is really good meaning that our DSmash doesn't kill until higher %s.

If we can keep USmash non stale, though, it is normally a pretty early kill. Otherwise pray for Dtilt → Utilt?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I usually kill everything with up-smash anyway. I find DI ***** d-smashes effectiveness as a kill move.

But I was just making a generalised statement.

I was using Pikachu the other day, and I was living until like, 140% using bair to momentum cancel. lewl

Is Pikachu big enough to get hit by utilt from a dtilt? Iunno. You'd need to be really close.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I usually kill everything with up-smash anyway. I find DI ***** d-smashes effectiveness as a kill move.

But I was just making a generalised statement.

I was using Pikachu the other day, and I was living until like, 140% using bair to momentum cancel. lewl

Is Pikachu big enough to get hit by utilt from a dtilt? Iunno. You'd need to be really close.

Size doesn't matter when it comes to dtilt > utilt. The only thing that matters is whether dtilt is stale or fresh.

As for go to kill moves whatever, the situation calls for I'll use. I've killed with almost everything of Zelda's.

 

[Alacion]

AL gets some (offline) vids of your Zelda up. I'm curious to see your playstyle.

Requesting vids of Lucario, Zero Suit Samus, Pikachu, and King Dedede.