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~ Zelda's Matchups: Let's Get Tactical ~

-Mars-

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If your beating people with Zelda then people will give you props just like they do with Riot.
 

GodAtHand

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Giving him his due he's a little right. Not here, but IRL a lot of time when I beat people they say things like. "Oh, I didn't know I had to learn this matchup." or "I don't understand Zelda at all and it totally showed." but after you beat them a few more times it mostly becomes: "Zelda shouldn't be that low on the tier list... wth is going on?"
 

KayLo!

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Man, I need to stop skimming SWF when I'm not sober. Completely misread Mars's post, lmao.

Zelda really shouldn't be that low on the tier list.
 

Speed 10

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Looks like that's based on the old tier list. Since most tournaments are in final destination, of course MK is number 1. In places like bridge of eldin, MK would drop and people like ganon and zelda will move up since they're good on the ground. I think the tier list is based on final destination.
 

-Mars-

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Sorry bro Bridge of Eldin isnt legal and FD is definitely not what the tier list is based around
 

Kisamealex3

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Messages
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Giving him his due he's a little right. Not here, but IRL a lot of time when I beat people they say things like. "Oh, I didn't know I had to learn this matchup." or "I don't understand Zelda at all and it totally showed." but after you beat them a few more times it mostly becomes: "Zelda shouldn't be that low on the tier list... wth is going on?"
I get that a lot.

Or the ohh-so-common "...well...I'm slightly embarrassed." Because 1. I'm a "random" and 2. I main Zelda.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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I did at one point too....until I faced good players.
If your confidence wains because you've lost to a good player instead of sulk raise your skill level. Or you can just drop Zelda. You should never let a negative play experience distort your perception of a MU.
 

Kisamealex3

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
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/random post

So, I was playing like...10000000000 Zelda vs. Snake matches today with some jersey people and I noticed this..

You know when Snake just throws out both parts of the F-tilt because he knows the 2nd part will hit?

Well, when he does the first knee, Zelda can down tilt and the hitbox will stay there until her foot leaves. When he does the second part, he steps on her toe and will be disrupted/pop up.

When we noticed that it worked many times and tested different positions and everything, I thought I should post the results here just for match-up knowledge.

Other than that, THAT MATCHUP IS A *****. >__<
 

AlanHaTe

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/random post

So, I was playing like...10000000000 Zelda vs. Snake matches today with some jersey people and I noticed this..

You know when Snake just throws out both parts of the F-tilt because he knows the 2nd part will hit?

Well, when he does the first knee, Zelda can down tilt and the hitbox will stay there until her foot leaves. When he does the second part, he steps on her toe and will be disrupted/pop up.

When we noticed that it worked many times and tested different positions and everything, I thought I should post the results here just for match-up knowledge.

Other than that, THAT MATCHUP IS A *****. >__<
That sounds interesting, the bad thing is that it's not happening very often but when the situation is there can be good for a nice follow up! :awesome:

And I totally agree with you and probably with every other Zelda player that the match up is stupidly hard!! :mad:

I think the wort part is the nades :c

EDIT: I'm posting something cool I tested but I haven't neither done it perfect yet or get the video on any PC format for uploading :/ ... until then, aren't there any plans for future MU disscussion/redisscussion!?!?
 

-Mars-

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If your confidence wains because you've lost to a good player instead of sulk raise your skill level. Or you can just drop Zelda. You should never let a negative play experience distort your perception of a MU.
Sulking? Never did I say anything about any matchups, I was just responding to whoever said Zelda is underestimated.
 

Fuujin

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Double posting in ur threads.
Personal MU ratios

This is just out of personal curiosity so I'm not averaging them out or anything like that but if someone wants to average them out they're free to.
Key

Character= You feel you have an accurate general idea of this match up in high level play.
Character? = Vague knowledge of this match up, but you think you have somewhat of an idea about it.
??? = You don't have enough knowledge on this match up to give a good ratio.

From Praxis' guide to matchup ratios:

50-50
Very even matchup. Definition should be fairly obvious.

55-45
No character has a true solid advantage, but one has seemingly better/easier tools,
or one character profits more from winning a rock/paper/scissors guessing game.

60-40

One character has clearly better tools in the matchup. However, the other character does have responses him, and the matchup is still winnable through outplaying the opponent
or out spacing his tools and countering with the weaker ones well placed.

65-35
One character has options that shut down the others options. Counterpicking should be considered, but it's not completely unwinnable, but rather simply requires one player to far outplay the other.

70-30
Something about the character in the advantage completely shuts down
the other character. Counterpicking is heavily recommended -
or rely on them not knowing the matchup and you knowing it incredibly well.

Anything past 70-30
****
 

Fuujin

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Double posting in ur threads.
I'll add mine first.

:metaknight: 30-70
:snake: 30-70
:diddy: 40-60
:falco: 30-70
:popo: 40-60
:marth: 35-65
:wario: 40-60
:dedede: 40-60
:pikachu2: 45-55?
:olimar: 20-80
:lucario: 35-65
:gw: 20-80
:pit: 40-60
:toonlink: 35-65?
:zerosuitsamus: 35-65?
:kirby2: 40-60
:rob: 40-60
:dk2: 40-60?
:peach: 40-60
:fox: 35-65
:luigi2: 40-60?
:wolf: 40-60
:ike: 40-60
:sheik: 40-60
:pt: 45-55?
:squirtle: 45-55?
:ivysaur: 50-50?
:charizard: 50-50?
:sonic: 40-60
:ness2: 45-55
:yoshi2: 50-50
:lucas: 45-55
:mario2: 45-55
:bowser2: ???
:falcon: 50-50?
:samus2: 40-60
:jigglypuff: 50-50
:link2: 45-55
:zelda: 50-50
:ganondorf: 55-45
 

SupaSairentoZ7℠

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I'll add mine first.

:metaknight: 30-70
:snake: 30-70
:diddy: 40-60
:falco: 30-70
:popo: 40-60
:marth: 35-65
:wario: 40-60
:dedede: 40-60
:pikachu2: 45-55?
:olimar: 20-80
:lucario: 35-65
:gw: 20-80
:pit: 40-60
:toonlink: 35-65?
:zerosuitsamus: 35-65?
:kirby2: 40-60
:rob: 40-60
:dk2: 40-60?
:peach: 40-60
:fox: 35-65
:luigi2: 40-60?
:wolf: 40-60
:ike: 40-60
:sheik: 40-60
:pt: 45-55?
:squirtle: 45-55?
:ivysaur: 50-50?
:charizard: 50-50?
:sonic: 40-60
:ness2: 45-55
:yoshi2: 50-50
:lucas: 45-55
:mario2: 45-55
:bowser2: ???
:falcon: 50-50?
:samus2: 40-60
:jigglypuff: 50-50
:link2: 45-55
:zelda: 50-50
:ganondorf: 55-45
I'll pretty much go with this one.
 

GodAtHand

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I'll use: Heavy Disadvantage, Disadvantage, Light Disadvantage, Even, Light Advantage.

Meta Knight: Disadvantage
Snake: Disadvantage
Diddy Kong: Light Disadvantage
Falco: Disadvantage
Wario: Light Disadvantage
Marth:Light Disadvantage
Ice Climbers: Even
Olimar: Heavy Disadvantage
Pikachu: Light Disadvantage
King Dedede: Light Disadvantage
Mr. Game & Watch:Heavy Disadvantage
Lucario: Light Disadvantage
Zero Suit Samus: Light Disadvantage
Toon Link: Light Disadvantage
Kirby:Light Disadvantage
Fox: Light Disadvantage
R.O.B.: Light Disadvantage
Pit: Light Disadvantage
Peach: Light Disadvantage
Donkey Kong: Light Disadvantage
Luigi: Even
Wolf:Light Disadvantage
Sonic: Disadvantage
Ike: Light Disadvantage
Sheik:Light Disadvantage
Ness: Light Disadvantage
Pokémon Trainer: Even
Yoshi: Even
Lucas: Even
Mario:Even
Bowser: Light Advantage
Captain Falcon: Light Advantage
Samus: Even
Jigglypuff: Even
Link:Even
Zelda: Even
Ganondorf: Light Advantage
If you want I can add actual ratios, but I am terrible at math and might screw some of them up. Some other people had their personal match-ups in the same thread.
 

KuroganeHammer

It's ya boy
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Ganon: 60:40

Everyone else in low tier: evenish

Everyone in mid tier: disadvantaged

Everyone in high/top tier: lol

On a more serious note, I think these "personal" match up threads are silly. But whatever. =D
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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:metaknight: 35-65
:snake: 30-70
:diddy: 40-60
:falco: 40-60
:popo: 50-50
:marth: 35-65
:wario: 40-60
:dedede: 45-55
:pikachu2: 45-55
:olimar: 20-80
:lucario: 35-65
:gw: 20-80
:pit: 45-55
:toonlink: 35-65
:zerosuitsamus: 45-55
:kirby2: 50-50
:rob: 45-55
:dk2: 45-55
:peach: 35-65
:fox: 40-60
:luigi2: 40-60? (no idea. sounds right)
:wolf: 40-60
:ike: 45-55
:sheilda: 45:55
:sheik: 55-45
:pt: 55-45
  • :squirtle: 55-45
  • :ivysaur: 55-45
  • :charizard: 50-50
:sonic: 50-50
:ness2: 50-50
:yoshi2: 55-45
:lucas: 45-55
:mario2: 45-55
:bowser2: 55:45
:falcon: 60-40
:samus2: 50-50
:jigglypuff: 55-45
:link2: 50-50
:zelda: ~~~~
:ganondorf: 65-35




So sue me, I have more optimistic MU ratios.... they still aren't good though.
 

Kataefi

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Yeah, guys, I'm going to move this entire thread to the actual MU thread, because that's where we originally discussed this. I'll PM Fuujin to let him know where his thread has gone.
 

AlanHaTe

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I would make my own "MU's ratios" but they won't be any accurate because of my non-experience with some chars =_=
 

ぱみゅ

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Those numbers are cute!
Problem is not "how much", problem is "why".

here's mine btw (not all chars are listed, I don't know some MUs)


Meta Knight: Heavy Disadvantage
Snake: Heavy Disadvantage/Disadvantage
Diddy Kong: Disadvantage
Falco: Heavy Disadvantage/Disadvantage
Wario: Light Disadvantage
Marth: Heavy Disadvantage/Disadvantage
Ice Climbers: Even
Olimar: Heavy Disadvantage
Pikachu: Even/Light Disadvantage
King Dedede: Light Disadvantage
Mr. Game & Watch: Heavy Disadvantage
Lucario: Light Disadvantage
Zero Suit Samus: Disadvantage
Toon Link: Disadvantage
Fox: Disadvantage
R.O.B.: Light Disadvantage
Pit: Light Disadvantage
Peach: Disadvantage
Donkey Kong: Even
Wolf: Disadvantage
Sonic: Light Disadvantage
Ike: Disadvantage
Sheik: Light Disadvantage
Ness: Light Disadvantage
Lucas: Even
Mario: Even
Bowser: Light Advantage
Captain Falcon: Advantage
Samus: Even

Luigi:
Pokémon Trainer:
Yoshi:
Jigglypuff:
Link:
Ganondorf:


But, it might not be that bad, I'm being as pessimistic as possible. =P
 

AlanHaTe

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JigglyZelda003

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x_x Seems like everyone except for me has no problems with ROB or says it's not that bad:c... and the worst part is that I've read that MU thread like 9651234567876545362736276372819217398 times ;_;
i haven't played a good RoB in forever, but i felt like that too lol

even as peach its like "why am i the only one having problems w/ ROB?:c"
 

ぱみゅ

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Well... Average ROB is campy, so you should outcamp him by Loving his projectyles (yes, Nayru pun intended) and he has like no way to approach safely.
Watch out for his aerials. They deals great damage and kills Zelda early, that's a reason not to try and approach him mindlessly, but you can punish them hard.
Is about who commits more mistakes, both punish hard, both can kill well. Difference is that ROB has more tools and kills much earlier.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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What is the match up between zelda and falco?
depends on the falco and the zelda, but it's not a bad matchup. No worse than 40:60 in my experience.


I used to win vs. most falcos I fought against, but, admittedly, it's been a while.
 

Half-Split Soul

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Gotta love Zelda with a grant total of 2 advantages and 1 neutral. Can't really say I agree with her having an advantage on Bowser and not some other chars, though.
 

GodAtHand

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Zelda vs Falco is 35-65 Falco's favor. It's on the front page and there is a link to the matchup thread if your curious.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Gotta love Zelda with a grant total of 2 advantages and 1 neutral. Can't really say I agree with her having an advantage on Bowser and not some other chars, though.
my opionion on zelda has always been that she has awful approach options, but I really don't feel much disadvantage at all when somebody can't camp us....

I can't honestly believe that all but 2 characters can outcamp her. It's garbage.
 

AlanHaTe

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and seems like there was no Zelda mains(as far as I know) in the credits part...
so we may just ignore that... as "we know"(not me, I just know about a few) which MU's are not that bad...
 

MrEh

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The chart was made with a lot of differing opinions in the BBR. However, the general consensus was that Zelda is just really, really bad.


I can't honestly believe that all but 2 characters can outcamp her. It's garbage
I believe it. Zelda is slow and Din's is terrible for camping.


and seems like there was no Zelda mains(as far as I know) in the credits part...
You mis-read the thread. The credits only show people who helped outside the BBR. The BBR itself has Zelda players. Do not assume that the BBR just cobbled together a bunch of random people for the Zelda panel.
 
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