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Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

Fireemblemfreak

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Hey! I'm going to put it out there that I'm willing to exchange my friend code with whoever wants it. Pm me, reply, do whatever, it doesn't matter to me c: I'm a Zelda main, most likely with Lucina and Robin on the side xP I'm getting it on release date, so I'll be able to battle most likely. I'll hand out my Skype if anyone wants that too, but I'd rather PM that xP
 

Crudedude

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
50
I think everyone isn't giving naryu's 2nd custom move enough credit. Though it does lose it's range and damage it'll be consistent something zelda has been lacking very much from previous iterations. I believe the second choice is better against lighter weight characters who can (hopefully not di out of naryu's). All in all, almost most of her custom moves are stale. Her farore's, naryu's, and din's seem lackluster of what they could be. what i see when I look at din's custom moves is: custom 2 get brawl speed, custom three get brawl control (but a bit better so i guess this isn't so bad) I would have loved it if it was a ball of lightning to get that thunder wave effect at high percent. Naryu's is more colorful but it's like "what are you going to do with it", same with farores. But it's still early and we have yet to see more custom moves being played more often. Can't wait to play her but I think she'll really shine in wii u than 3ds because characters with mobility or footies character seems to suffer from the 3ds joystick, those mistakes kills.
 

SBphiloz4

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Locks in general are nerfed (which is good because that was pretty stupid IMO), but MK still finds ways to do new and stupid tricks and stuff lol.

This MU will still be bad for Zelda, but hopefully not AS bad as before.
 

Shog

Smash Ace
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
926
Just want to say that I used Zelda so rarely and Brawl and Melee that I might have to use her more often simply for the fact that she has a unique moveset and she got much, much prettier too
 

Rion

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
396
Some random Zelda thoughts on specials:

Farore's Wind is pretty boss, so no comments there. Although the customs are kinda... like, they really must not have had a lot of ideas, haha. Seriously? A meteor reappearance that you can only aim up? Come on. That's just lame. Can't complain too much with a great default though.

Din's Fire. I felt like the slow moving "mine" custom one had so much potential. Like, if it was like Project M's Din, with Zelda being able to move with the mine still out for a while, God. I would have killed for that. I know some people seemed to enjoy the Sniper one, but to me, it just loses way too much maneuverability to seem -that- useful. Also what the hell man, Fox's Side B gets no helpless state (if I remember right), but Din's does? Like, what is so overpowered about Din's Fire not having a helpless fall? It's has a huge recovery time after the explosion anyway, it's not like she's gonna be laser hopping Din's Fire's all over the place (what an image that was).

Nayru's... mmn, it would've been cool if they had given her a "hold down to keep activated" Nayru's like Fox or Ness. Heh heh, a Zelda Shine would be mildly hilarious I imagine. On a real note though, man. I'm just wondering what sort of purpose did they think these Nayru customs would have had. I'm definitely confused by the explosion one... we must have missed something, right? Right? Other than that, at least the default is decent. Can't complain -too- much.

Phantom. Ergh, I am so frustrated because this could have been a seriously amazing move if you could store the bloody charge. I have absolutely no idea why they wouldn't let you for this move either. It doesn't have huge range, and there's people like Samus and Lucario with huge charge shot projectiles that basically do the same thing, except with less downsides. Maybe they were thinking "Oh, she has a ~*pretty good projectile*~ already so we gotta make sure to make this one's not -that- amazing so they keep using that other ~*pretty good projectile*~!"

Do you ever just want to like, put the developer in charge of a character in a chair and seriously just ask "why did you do these things" or "what made you think this was a good idea"? 'Cause I do.

Being able to store a charge would have actually helped -a lot- of Zelda's problem areas in my opinion.

- Being able to ACTUALLY PRESSURE opponents with a pretty threatening mid range projectile, Zelda's safe pressure is definitely lacking.
- Having a fast, safe option for shields so long as you spaced it properly, which is another thing something Zelda kinda has problems with (not to mention shield hitstun is super low in this iteration, accentuating this point even more).
- Probably would be a great punisher and amazing edgeguard because of it's range.
- AN ACTUALLY GOOD APPROACH OPTION. Holy moly, I really would have liked that. A Zelda approach is... just run up to your opponent and kinda hope what you do works, because a lot of her stuff requires a good commitment and if it that fails well, you know. You go boom.

Look how much more usable this move becomes by just being able to store the charge. I would be okay with the weird cooldown on it and all the other downsides blah blah blah, if YOU JUST LET US STORE THE CHARGE! Argh, c'mon Sakurai!

Alas, I doubt they would change this, so it'd probably be wise to just focus on what applications it actually has than hope for unlikely change. It's niche, but it has some kinda interesting uses like safely knicking people with no second jump while they're trying to come back to the ground or sorta protecting your return back to the stage. But like I said, niche.

On the bright side, Shield Breaker Phantom actually seems useful, assuming custom moves become a thing for tournaments. Then again, it could also be bad for us because that means -everyone else- gets their custom moves... and from what I've heard, some of them are pretty scary.

We just can't win, eh?

If I were to ask for one single change for Zelda, it would just be for a storeable charge Phantom. It couldn't be that difficult to change, could it?

/blahblahingOVER
 

Katty Shepherd

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Jun 19, 2014
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Hnnnngh, those videos are awesome. Zelda looks like a nice choice for Dedede, and I'll be honest - I was expecting Sonic to just destroy Zelda, so I was really pleasantly surprised. This Zelda player is very good at making use of all her attacks, not just spamming Farore's Wind and fsmash :laugh:

Every video I see makes me less and less afraid of Zelda being straight up unviable. I'm sure there are characters who outclass her, and she'll probably have a few very hard counters - but even if she's relatively low on the tier list as a whole (still can't even begin to guess at what her tier placement will end up being - everyone looks pretty great this go around, imo) I still think she'll be a viable pick for her mains and for matchups that she'll be able to clean up. Smash 4 is looking incredibly well balanced to be honest - I don't think there's a single character who stands out to me as unviable at all.

And yes, I'd love to exchange FC's with other SB Zelda players! Sounds like a great idea.

@ Katty Shepherd Katty Shepherd I think that could be really cool! Not if I did it, because I have zero experience with teams, but I'd like to see it if there's someone willing and able!
I haven't the slightest clue how to start but the old one did a bit-by-bit. So they would decide to discuss so Marth, talk about him and how they feel, put a summary up than move on to the next character. If I can have a back up of someone who actually knows what they're doing I'm happy to help start that. I'm really a team player so this is important to me. XD
Hello peeps. There is an online tournament coming up on October 11th where everyone is character locked before the event starts and I took Zelda all for myself! This is a 32+ player double elimination tournament and will be streamed on Twitch. Custom moves are allowed and equipment is banned. If anyone wants to come watch some Zelda tournament play you should check it out!

My top priority as soon as the game is released is getting the custom specials for both Zelda and Sheik. Mainly Zelda's customs so I can test different sets and prepare for the tournament. If anyone is interested in going a few rounds for tournament practice then hit me up!

My current custom set I have in mind:
Din's: all 3 are interesting so I will have to play around with these. Leaning towards the Delayed Din's Fire currently.
Nayru's: Nayru's Ardour. It draws in and explodes things! (regular Nayru's against anyone with projectiles)
Farore's: Default. This could possibly be the best move in the game. It makes top 5 easy.
Phantom: Phantom Breaker. Always launches the same distance and has a shield braker property.
I've been thinking about sniper Zelda with the long raged Din's fire and short range phantom for up close and personal. I haven't really looked at Nayru's Love. I honestly don't think Farore's Wind needs a custom given how killer it already is and all.
 

StarForce

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So Meta is still a threat to Zelda? This is my first smash game and Zelda is my favorite character. I can see Meta based on tiers owns even himself. I hope I don't run unto many Meta's online. I think I might stay with the normal moves but I might choose custom 2 for Nayru's Love. The phantom has limited use yes. Might use the shield breaker one or just the normal one.
 

Aibou

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How to beat Olimar as Zelda in Brawl: Smack the controller out of his hand.
 

JigglyZelda003

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Aug 17, 2006
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Haha. That's very funny. Are there videos of Zelda gameplay? In the current form of 3ds. I'd like to see if there is any. It's roughly 5 days till release and the wait is killing me. I want to see or try Zelda now so badly.
there's a few floating around, but not alot. I've only really seen one.
 

StarForce

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there's a few floating around, but not alot. I've only really seen one.
To be expected... I've searched youtube and other directly or checking gameplay of other characters with Zelda as an opponent at least but to no avail and even as a cpu it's not satisfactory as cpus are all slightly dumb to be able to pull any notes from them. Wait only I guess. Nothing else to do.
 

Rizen

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Here's Nairo (Zelda) vs. ZeRo (Bowser) First to 10 wins, if you haven't seen it yet. http://youtu.be/53G3xgDJ9y4
^I think Zelda was out-played there. Based on Brawl Zelda, he didn't use her right: lots of sloppy missed grabs, not juggling when Zelda should have and spamming lightning kicks instead.
Needs better use of Dtilt and juggles, better intercepting and preventing Bowser from landing, and less fishing for LKs.

Edit, after watching more than one game, I don't think Bowser was played right either so it balanced out more. I thought Zelda got owned at first.

I'd really like to see an actual Bowser player and Zelda player play their SSB4 versions. Something like Limit vs Ed; that'd be awesome.
 
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Novice_Brave

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 14, 2010
Messages
334
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Albuquerque, NM
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24517835

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24474925

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24472394

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24461983

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofv8fvTs4V8&t=1m55s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofv8fvTs4V8&t=8m47s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofv8fvTs4V8&t=110m29s

Here's a good few. The nico nico ones you'll have to sign up for, but I think it's worth it. That player is probably the best Zelda I've seen so far.

The others are from a tournament that @Chauzu took part in, and he played really well too! There's also a lot of footage of Nairo playing Zelda but I can't find it all atm. Oops. Lemme tag ya @ StarForce StarForce
 
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SBphiloz4

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Yo, that Japanese Zelda is very good. Only lost that second game to Dedede because of two SDs lol. But I love the usage of FW and Nayru. Doesn't seem like Zelda is as dependent on Lightning Kicks either, so I'm pretty excited for Sm4sh Zelda now.

Less than a week left before we all get our hands on this.
 

gagelax

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^I think Zelda was out-played there. Based on Brawl Zelda, he didn't use her right: lots of sloppy missed grabs, not juggling when Zelda should have and spamming lightning kicks instead.
Needs better use of Dtilt and juggles, better intercepting and preventing Bowser from landing, and less fishing for LKs.

Edit, after watching more than one game, I don't think Bowser was played right either so it balanced out more. I thought Zelda got owned at first.

I'd really like to see an actual Bowser player and Zelda player play their SSB4 versions. Something like Limit vs Ed; that'd be awesome.
Then again, sm4sh hasn't been out for too long, and this match was like a week or 2 ago, so people won't be at their best YET.
 

gagelax

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Here's an amateur video I found of Zelda. Nothing too special really but gameplay nonetheless. I think her up special surprised them both.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frFmd8QGND0

Oh, how I would love to have wrecked that Rosalina if given the chance.
Amateur? From the first minute I'd be suprised if the person had even ever used zelda before. Rosalina's name in the title tho
 

Rizen

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Then again, sm4sh hasn't been out for too long, and this match was like a week or 2 ago, so people won't be at their best YET.
It's not about that. I would like to see actual Zelda (or Bowser) players from Brawl play their respective SSB4 characters. People who main characters for a long time really know how to play them and people who pick up the character have a more generic style. Like check out Scary's Zelda:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WngLLIsqDIU&feature=player_detailpage#t=227

Although I do appreciate what Zero did uploading those. I'm just saying I'd like to see more from people who mained the characters in Brawl.
 

A2ZOMG

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- Being able to ACTUALLY PRESSURE opponents with a pretty threatening mid range projectile, Zelda's safe pressure is definitely lacking.
- Having a fast, safe option for shields so long as you spaced it properly, which is another thing something Zelda kinda has problems with (not to mention shield hitstun is super low in this iteration, accentuating this point even more).
- Probably would be a great punisher and amazing edgeguard because of it's range.
- AN ACTUALLY GOOD APPROACH OPTION. Holy moly, I really would have liked that. A Zelda approach is... just run up to your opponent and kinda hope what you do works, because a lot of her stuff requires a good commitment and if it that fails well, you know. You go boom.
Zelda actually is REALLY safe on shield. Jab, D-tilt, and F-smash are super safe on block, and the former two convert into combos on hit (percent dependent).

Zelda's approach is viable. Slightly risky, but not unworkable. Pressure people with Jab and D-tilt, convert into combos off those hits, Dash Attack/F-smash if they spotdodge a lot, or dashgrab if they start shielding a lot (Zelda's dashgrab range is quite good). You can definitely open people up in midrange.

Risk/reward for single hits actually tends to be slightly in Zelda's favor because she's one of the more durable characters in this game. She's hard to edgeguard and landtrap when Faore's Wind gives you a ton of options for repositioning that your opponent can't react to. You also have above average aerial mobility which makes you difficult to chase in the air. You should consistently expect to survive to 160% with Zelda in most matchups unless you make unnecessarily bad plays.

Honestly, as I've stated before, Zelda's gameplan works in this game. You look for a hit, then you aim to trap your opponent into something that eventually kills them, which you can do quite easily due to landing and edge mechanics benefitting Din's Fire, Up-B, and the rest of your movepool considerably. You should typically outlast your opponents given you have strong ability to get back into neutral state and because you generally hit harder than most characters.
 
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Novice_Brave

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Zelda actually is REALLY safe on shield. Jab, D-tilt, and F-smash are super safe on block, and the former two convert into combos on hit (percent dependent).

Zelda's approach is viable. Slightly risky, but not unworkable. Pressure people with Jab and D-tilt, convert into combos off those hits, Dash Attack/F-smash if they spotdodge a lot, or dashgrab if they start shielding a lot (Zelda's dashgrab range is quite good). You can definitely open people up in midrange.

Risk/reward for single hits actually tends to be slightly in Zelda's favor because she's one of the more durable characters in this game. She's hard to edgeguard and landtrap when Faore's Wind gives you a ton of options for repositioning that your opponent can't react to. You also have above average aerial mobility which makes you difficult to chase in the air. You should consistently expect to survive to 160% with Zelda in most matchups unless you make unnecessarily bad plays.

Honestly, as I've stated before, Zelda's gameplan works in this game. You look for a hit, then you aim to trap your opponent into something that eventually kills them, which you can do quite easily due to landing and edge mechanics benefitting Din's Fire, Up-B, and the rest of your movepool considerably. You should typically outlast your opponents given you have strong ability to get back into neutral state and because you generally hit harder than most characters.
I definitely agree that Smash 4 mechanics/physics are really working in Zelda's favor this time around. Her dash attack is actually a move I'm surprised people don't give much credit to. It stays out for a long time, has nice base knockback early on, does good damage, is quick to come out, and if it's still the same knockback as E3 build, can actually kill near the edges of stages surprisingly well at higher percents. It does take a while to end and isn't very safe on shield, but I think its a good tool to have.

Again, FW is now probably one of the better recoveries in the game. Huge distance, actually sweetspots the ledge now, forces opponents to be very cautious about the reappearance, and she's invincible throughout the entire travel distance. Jab looks better this time around (though I'm still not sure if it's super great) and I think spamming her smashes for damage and safety is something she can afford to do moreso than other characters since she has plenty of kill options even outside of them and they're fairly quick. I think she still has a problem with characters being able to ride an advantage they get against her really far, though. It seems somewhat difficult for her to escape strings of attacks safely, especially in the air.

I think that Zelda is one of the "most improved" characters in terms of overall viability. She got a lot of little quality of life changes and a couple major buffs that really help her out, and the mechanics of the game itself are much more in her favor than before. What this will end up meaning in terms of tier placement I can't really begin to say, but I do think that no matter where she ends up lying on the tiers, she'll be at least useable in high level play.
 

gagelax

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It's not about that. I would like to see actual Zelda (or Bowser) players from Brawl play their respective SSB4 characters. People who main characters for a long time really know how to play them and people who pick up the character have a more generic style. Like check out Scary's Zelda:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WngLLIsqDIU&feature=player_detailpage#t=227

Although I do appreciate what Zero did uploading those. I'm just saying I'd like to see more from people who mained the characters in Brawl.
Oh ok, I see what you're saying.
 

lordgiratina7000

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Zelda used to be one of my all time favorites! I absolutely loved using her and whatnot,her Nair is one of my favorite moves...

I'm excited to use her Phantom Slash it seems kind of tricky at first but handy.
 

A2ZOMG

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After watching more of that Japanese Zelda, I'm pretty sure that Phantom is actually quite useful outside of the situations where that player uses it (which mostly seems to be edgetraps and edgeguards).

It appears to start up faster than Din's Fire, and while you won't be spamming either, Phantom has a lot of potential for whiff punishing, catching people who jump in midrange, and some situational usage in footsies. Think of it like a ghetto Falcon Kick in a way. This can be considered one of your safer tools for punishing things that are just outside of Dash Attack range. You want to keep this option open in situations where you recognize your opponent overestimating their range and safety.
 
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gagelax

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After watching more of that Japanese Zelda, I'm pretty sure that Phantom is actually quite useful outside of the situations where that player uses it (which mostly seems to be edgetraps and edgeguards).

It appears to start up faster than Din's Fire, and while you won't be spamming either, Phantom has a lot of potential for whiff punishing, catching people who jump in midrange, and some situational usage in footsies. Think of it like a ghetto Falcon Kick in a way. This can be considered one of your safer tools for punishing things that are just outside of Dash Attack range. You want to keep this option open in situations where you recognize your opponent overestimating their range and safety.
Yes, I would agree. I would also say you could make use of din's fire AND the phantom to kind of camp, pressuring the opponent into approaching, and thats when you can run in and dash attack, etc.
 

StarForce

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So been seeing videos lately. It eases me to see some speed up at least in Nayru's love. The phantom definitely needs be learned well to make good use of it. with those other videos about the online tourney I've also see what some other character can do specially in good hands unlike my noob ones lol. The tourney i'm in for now does not allow to change characters or my second choice would have been Rosalina. I'm really looking forward to her. I hope she gets good plays too and not be shunned like Zelda. I want to see them both rise up. Rosy to start good and Zelda to gain upper ground. We just need to be positive. I have a question; if Zelda is hit or launched while casting Din's fire, does it explode automatically or I can control it in direction or when to detonate it when she is in that state? SF2 cannot I'm wondering in the real game what happens.
 

NinjaLink

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So been seeing videos lately. It eases me to see some speed up at least in Nayru's love. The phantom definitely needs be learned well to make good use of it. with those other videos about the online tourney I've also see what some other character can do specially in good hands unlike my noob ones lol. The tourney i'm in for now does not allow to change characters or my second choice would have been Rosalina. I'm really looking forward to her. I hope she gets good plays too and not be shunned like Zelda. I want to see them both rise up. Rosy to start good and Zelda to gain upper ground. We just need to be positive. I have a question; if Zelda is hit or launched while casting Din's fire, does it explode automatically or I can control it in direction or when to detonate it when she is in that state? SF2 cannot I'm wondering in the real game what happens.
I like when people ask interesting questions so I can test them. If you're casting dins and you get hit, it treats it like you're still holding the button. You can still control the height of dins as you walk around. It goes max distance UNLESS you detonate it by doing another dins. Both dins will be out and if you blow up that one asap so does the one before it.
 

NinjaLink

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Now cyst, you never said you were taking questions...


I noticed you tested momentum, pivoted and other things in a lot of the other videos, but in the Zelda video you spent half the time talking about L canceling and teams. and fixing the camera. Yet Paletuna got like 15 minutes of you messing around with he rmoveset.
The shade in your Zelda video was quit prevalent.

It's evident that you and your cronies in that video didn't care enough about the QUEEN to fully test her limits, so I'm gonna need you to redeem yourself.



Is love jumping back?
Can you test it with the 3 variations and see if there are any differences?
Does Nayru's have any invincibility?
Is it possible to ledge cancel Farore's from an upward angle? Or only from downward to horizontal?
How much lag does the fast Din's Fire have until she can act?

How much HP does the Phantom have?
You talk very awkward and I dont need to redeem myself lol.

'Love jumping' is something I discovered to begin with and it isnt a Zelda only thing. Its just B-boosting which alot of characters have and it doesnt seem to work the same way it did before. People just gave it a name and continued to call it that to troll me lol

Nayrus 1 and 2 has invincibility. 2 seems to reflect projectiles later but guarantees the reflect due to the invulnerable period.

It is possible to cancel it from the air but due to the forced distance mechanic they added, its gonna be awkward. If you're in the air and you try to cancel it aiming it directly to the ledge and you're not far enough, you will shoot to the side and die. However if you are good with how much distance you travel, you can make it travel along the ground and make it cancel that way. Imma make a video showing that now actually.

Maybe about 10 frames after it explodes and thats only if you hold it. If you just tap it its a bit longer since you're forced to do that animation. The slow dins thats stronger allows you to move the same frame it explodes. Extended dins is pretty much the same as default, lag wise.

Phantom is where is gets weird. It seems the only thing that gets damaged is the body so the sword it has its a disjoint of itself. I tested this with all explosive items which does 25-26%. If they hit the body, it dies but if you space it, it doesnt. So far the knight has 25HP or less. Both charged and uncharged dies to a bobomb. Hard to test these things solo.
 

PrimalCarnage

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Toadallstar2

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Suchh good videos, enjoyed them.

That player really lets Phantom shine. Amazing kicks too.
 
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