Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[JigglyZelda003]

Yeah, the tree prevents projectiles from moving through it, so it can act as a wall as well as an attack (in 4 parts - the sprouting, the axe, the falling, and the potential to get a throwable "chip" item)

Zelda's new team partner is villager, protection wall to spam behind

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I don't really think Dsmash is gonna be her worst move.....(phantom is still a thing)

@ Nairo
Yo! Zelda hasn't been looking bad at all bro. Sure coulda used ya during brawl lol. What's your take on phantom because I think the move is almost useless and has minimal functionality (default wise).

 

[A2ZOMG]

I don't really think Dsmash is gonna be her worst move.....(phantom is still a thing)

@ Nairo
Yo! Zelda hasn't been looking bad at all bro. Sure coulda used ya during brawl lol. What's your take on phantom because I think the move is almost useless and has minimal functionality (default wise).

The thing about Phantom is, it covers some options on the ground outside of Dash Attack range, and it's more reliable/less of a commitment than Din's Fire. If people are trying to keep you out and over-commit when walling or zoning you outside of DA range, Phantom can be charged on a read to get a good punish. This isn't trying to state that Phantom is a great move. The point is it has a few uses and covers unique options that Zelda normally doesn't cover with the rest of her moveset. It's not outrageously unsafe on block either, so missing with it isn't usually terrible as long as you aren't blatantly letting people jump past it.

The problem with D-smash in contrast is there are extremely few situations where the move is preferable to Jab, D-tilt, and Grab. So normally, the move is just outclassed, given it doesn't actually cover anything the rest of your moves don't. D-smash thus should be your least used move as Zelda.

Unless I'm mistaken, you actually will almost always get more damage from grab, and grabbing not only got buffed for Zelda, it of course works against blocking. Jab and D-tilt in contrast are by far safer moves than D-smash, and at various percents actually lead to combos/followups. The only time you want to use D-smash is either to get people offstage at a low angle, or for KOs, but for strictly sending people to the blastzone on a raw punish, Zelda does have stronger options.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Ed hasn't changed I see.

Lmao, I mean it's in reference to Nairo's Zelda! More or less the same tho sis.

@ A2ZOMG
The problem is that it's simple to rush down phantom. The fact that it cannot be stored, has to go through any charge animation, and has no hitbox directly in front of Zelda makes it useless and extremely telegraphed on use. Perhaps that increases the utility of jab and dtilt but phantom looks more useless than transforming in Brawl when I conscientiously want to remain as Zelda.

 

[evmaxy54]

Watched a bit of the videos and all bias aside (HA)...no

Personally, I just felt your Zelda to be rather underwhelming tbh. Too much reliance on FW IMO (though to be fair, I'm rather basing it off that tournament at someone's house nearly two weeks ago & that "first to 10" against ZeRo on Wi-Fi so...).

 

[A2ZOMG]

Lmao, I mean it's in reference to Nairo's Zelda! More or less the same tho sis.

@ A2ZOMG
The problem is that it's simple to rush down phantom. The fact that it cannot be stored, has to go through any charge animation, and has no hitbox directly in front of Zelda makes it useless and extremely telegraphed on use. Perhaps that increases the utility of jab and dtilt but phantom looks more useless than transforming in Brawl when I conscientiously wan to remain as Zelda.

That's why you don't spam Phantom, and that's also why as a player, you save it for situations where the opponent is trying to zone you out of Dash Attack range.

Simple example. DeDeDe is expecting you to approach, and is keeping you out with F-tilt and Inhale. You figure out his patterns, but Zelda doesn't have a lot of options to punish outside of Dash Attack range. If you read him pressing a button and charge Phantom here, you get a punish.

Phantom at the very least has the ability to cover options at a range where Zelda normally doesn't do much. It competes somewhat with Dins which can also situationally punish some things outside DA range, but it covers the ground better and is slightly less of a commitment.

Then you have D-smash. Which is unsafe on block (AND hit at low percents). Has short range. Doesn't KO early most of the time. Overall you would rather be using Jab, D-tilt, and Grab in basically 90% of the situations where a D-smash would hit.

 

[BJN39]

Man, I don't think the Zelda boards have ever been more active than this...

...

 

[Nairo]

Personally, I just felt your Zelda to be rather underwhelming tbh. Too much reliance on FW IMO (though to be fair, I'm rather basing it off that tournament at someone's house nearly two weeks ago & that "first to 10" against ZeRo on Wi-Fi so...).

Showing off zeldas moves 2 days after the game came out and getting 2nd at that as opposed to someone playing for glory from today(im guessing) and for glory has good and bad people sooo yea i mean if he were to do all that vs zero and nakat and whoop them then all I can say is good stuff! (but more zelda vids are still cool tho)

 

[evmaxy54]

The CLOCKING!!!

I don't even.

Showing off zeldas moves 2 days after the game came out and getting 2nd at that as opposed to someone playing for glory from today(im guessing) and for glory has good and bad people sooo yea i mean if he were to do all that vs zero and nakat and whoop them then all I can say is good stuff! (but more zelda vids are still cool tho)

Point taken

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Personally i feel Phantom is no different than Dins or Faroes. There are situations it can come in handy but otherwise its a here and there type of deal.

 

[Nairo]

nnnn the salt.

nnnn the alt

 

[evmaxy54]

In other news have you people found the odd one out? :O :O :O :O :O

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Phantom looks worse than Din's.
AFTER Din's got nerfed.

Pretty depressing tbh.

Point taken.

Even if it's true in the end that its crap i'd rather remain optimistic for now self since i had just about given up on Zelda until recently.

Phantom doesn't cause free fall... that's one point over the new dins lol

 

[meleebrawler]

All those games also demonstrated massive inexperience on the Zelda player's part. Generally suboptimal normal usage and reckless decision making that clearly didn't have a lot of thought behind it. So saying the Link player adapted is loaded when the Zelda play was by all means not high level, and lacked the variation and finesse that comes with experience.

I mean for crying out loud, Zelda was using Up-B OFFENSIVELY. Which as I've stated multiple times is REALLY BAD and not how you are supposed to use it.

The player is Chauzu, who is a regular here, and he just said he didn't use her much.
People learn by screwing up, not necessarily by getting yelled at.

 

[Rion]

At least no one can be as bad as that Hamayama guy who streamed Japanese Smash 4 because he got an early copy.

I don't think I've actually cringed so much at how bad Smash was played before until that time.

 

[micstar615]

I wonder if the custom Dins and the custom phantoms will make much of a difference, I was optimistic about her customs at first but I'm feeling kind of underwhelmed. I think there was a phantom custom that went the full distance even if it was uncharged...maybe that'll help? The Dins customs are meh, i don't think they'll make much of a difference. NL and FW customs are awful, luckily the standard versions are usable.

 

[BJN39]

^ Thre's the Phantom Breaker. I think that's what you described. It goes the same distance at any charge, (A few character lengths) and has increased shield damage. (Like, only a little less than Shield breaker itself.) It's the one I'm more interested in personally.

 

[Rickster]

I also think Phantom Breaker could be quite useful. It looks like most peoples' reaction to seeing the Phantom charge up is to either shield or roll away. Imagine being able to eat through shields at that range. And if we break one, it's basically a free kick.

 

[Novice_Brave]

Just gotta say it's less than two days to release and I cannot wait to have this game in my hands. Both for Zelda and non-Zelda related reasons.

 

[BJN39]

I also think Phantom Breaker could be quite useful. It looks like most peoples' reaction to seeing the Phantom charge up is to either shield or roll away. Imagine being able to eat through shields at that range. And if we break one, it's basically a free kick.

Or an aerial Farore reappear hit. Fun Fact: The aerial reappear hit of FW can KO people up to 30% earlier than the grounded version. So I suppose you'd just pick whichever is fresher... Which would likely be LK...LOL

 

[Rickster]

Or an aerial Farore reappear hit. Fun Fact: The aerial reappear hit of FW can KO people up to 30% earlier than the grounded version. So I suppose you'd just pick whichever is fresher... Which would likely be LK...LOL

Wow, I wasn't aware of that. But teleporting into the air for it seems a little risky...proper aim would be needed. It would work better as a surprise, imo.

EDIT:

Why did he make that so strong? :/

I'm not complaining, but of ALL the things she needed buffed I don't know why he would pick that.

Literally who asked for that?

Maybe he thought the force of someone reappearing inside of you would hurt a lot? Or...something....

Yeah I don't get it either.
But I will still enjoy it to its fullest.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

sisters

dins range is here http://smashboards.com/threads/zeldas-moveset-impressions.368246/page-2#post-17694286

bonus points for me laying the smack down

*flicks hair*

 

[ぱみゅ]

Zelda boards: where gifs are valid counter-arguments.

But seriously guys, take this as a first and last warning (because I'm the good cop): let's all just try to get along.
Next post where you attack a person rather than keep a healthy discussion will result in infractions.

QFT.

Seriously guise....

 

[DrakeRowan]

Well, at least now I know what "the wig hunting" means in the title. So much drama going on in these boards.

 

[Tristan_win]

Just out of curiosity what do you guys think of Zelda in Smash4?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Just out of curiosity what do you guys think of Zelda in Smash4?

she's top tier if you spam farores wind into people and dins fire people at melee range

 

[Tristan_win]

she's top tier if you spam farores wind into people and dins fire people at melee range

._. ...are you for real?

Come on, I'm somewhat curious.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

._. ...are you for real?

Come on, I'm somewhat curious.

shes brawl zelda with a better recovery

so mediocre basically

 

[Nairo]

I don't really think Dsmash is gonna be her worst move.....(phantom is still a thing)

@ Nairo
Yo! Zelda hasn't been looking bad at all bro. Sure coulda used ya during brawl lol. What's your take on phantom because I think the move is almost useless and has minimal functionality (default wise).

Hey Ed! I think that the phantom move isnt like her best move or anything but I think it has its uses for example ive used it before as like a meat shield and I was able to punish him after (I also used it vs a ness where he tried to PK rocket read me trying to land on the stage and the phantom took the hit and it froze ness long enough to dodge the attack but if I hadnt done that I would of gotten hit by the rocket) so I feel like it can used as a defensive attack rather than offensive IMO

 

[Rizen]

Zelda boards: where gifs are valid counter-arguments.

But seriously guys, take this as a first and last warning (because I'm the good cop): let's all just try to get along.
Next post where you attack a person rather than keep a healthy discussion will result in infractions.

So...
...where's the bad cop?

 

[Rickster]

Just out of curiosity what do you guys think of Zelda in Smash4?

I would say she overall looks much faster, with less lag on many of her moves. Farore's is a huge help now that it's quick and deadly. Not to mention she has a few combos with the added hitstun. I would say she looks pretty solid, for once.

 

[Aibou]

About time we got some real authority in here ~_~

Anyway, I think just being able to recover is really nice for Zelda. Enough to at least get her out of the rut she was in last time, if only barely. It kinda sucks that she lost a lot of her killpower from her smash attacks and utilt, but she's got some nice things to kinda make up for it. Overall I think she'll be okay this game. She won't be anything amazing, but she'll at least be able to keep up with the rest of the cast, which is a lot more than I expected, to be honest.

 

[Soluble Toast]

DatFarore's.
Is anyone else having trouble with Greninja? I wanna pull the legs off of that gangly frog.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Hey Ed! I think that the phantom move isnt like her best move or anything but I think it has its uses for example ive used it before as like a meat shield and I was able to punish him after (I also used it vs a ness where he tried to PK rocket read me trying to land on the stage and the phantom took the hit and it froze ness long enough to dodge the attack but if I hadnt done that I would of gotten hit by the rocket) so I feel like it can used as a defensive attack rather than offensive IMO

Neat. We actually have very similar thoughts for that guy. Do you think that if you were closer to the phantom when PKT2 hit, would it have extended the hitbox and hit you or does he alone eat it? Curious since I don't plan on owning a 3ds anytime soon. Also do you think angled up Ftilt will still be a good anti-air because it was incredible in Brawl.

 

[ihskeyp]

shes brawl zelda with a better recovery

so mediocre basically

She's brawl Zelda with a better recovery and mechanics that actually benefit her instead of ruining her.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

She's brawl Zelda with a better recovery and mechanics that actually benefit her instead of ruining her.

sure

 

[ぱみゅ]

She's brawl Zelda with a better recovery and mechanics that actually benefit her instead of ruining her.

More like, with a couple mechanics she can abuse.
Still pretty mediocre imo, but at least she's not hopeless.

 

[Novice_Brave]

Hey guys! One hour and counting until it releases over here!
I'm freaaaking ouuuut! Zelda better be ready to be doin a WHOLE LOTTA FIGHTING

 

[Rion]

So after playing a crap ton of online 1VS1 tonight, some thoughts:

- Dtilt combos at low percents. There's no lock obviously, Dtilt > Dtilt > ... only really seems to sorta work at lowish percentages. However later in the mid %s you can do Dtilt > Jab / Dash Attack / Ftilt or maybe Dtilt > Jab > Dash Attack before they start to fly up a tad too high. F/Bair follow ups are a bit tough, but it certainly puts your opponent in a bad position haha.

- I actually sorta miss the KO version of Utilt. Mostly because of the ability to trade with aerials, it usually goes in your favor if they're high % VS USmash is sort of a crappy flub 1% trade most of the time that sucks sorta. But perhaps I haven't' given it much of a chance yet? It certainly could set up an easy UAir or F/Bair if you're at a moderate %.

- Getting used to F/Bair having such a HUGE cooldown hasn't been too bad, but I miss my short hop double Bairs... it's a really weird adjustment to be honest and have absolutely no idea why they'd put this on her but alas. On the bright side though, sweetspotting them has been actually surprisingly frequent. Just if you flub, well... you're screwed!

- Fsmash popping people out occasionally, which sorta bothers me but for the most part it seems not -too- terribly escape-able.

- I dunno about you guys, but Usmash feels like it has a bit less horizontal range. Like, I can't quite hit people next to me as easily, except if you're like a huge character like Bowser or Dedede. It does seem to have quite a "suck in" from the top though.

- No c-stick gets annoying, but I'm trying to manage. I definitely feel like I could be using Dsmash more, but I'm definitely not used to doing it manually. Which leads to:

- Die in a fire, you slippery circle pad thing.

- Nayru's Love has been surprisingly pretty good for stuffing spotdodges and rolls. I believe mister Aerodrome mentioned it at some point, which is why I started to use it to counter people constantly rolling behind me or something. Either just tap it as they roll or hop out of shield and b instantly if you want a quick no-brainer punish for people that awkwardly roll justttt behind you. The hitboxes linger for quite a while, so it's pretty effective. Also, I feel like the invul frames seem a bit longer? Or like, they seem to overlap with the attack hitboxes a bit better? There was a pretty hilarious Zelda ditto thing that happened last night but, I'll get to that later.

- Farore's Wind. Seriously, it's pretty great! I mean, mostly it's an excellent tool punishing people who like to just charge their smashes to "threaten" you or when they think they're far enough to shoot/charge projectiles. Against the newbies who don't really understand how to block Farore's, you're just gonna be laughing at how many good knockbacks/KOs it's going to net you from such a large distance.

Now when you're up against people who actually know how to block... yeah, obviously you can't just willy nilly toss it out whenever you like. I've gotten shielded then promptly Fsmashed by Ganon, just let you realize how punishable it is on block. Farore's is fast but, they're gonna learn how to shield your shenanigans if you just raw Farore's into them. Don't be silly about it.

It's a pretty good "reversal" in the neutral mid range particularly against people like King Dedede or Robin who have just enough lag on their projectiles where you can Farore's on reaction or sense a good opportunity coming. I'm not so sure about using it against people like Fox who have very fast low cooldown projectiles though; that would require a much more precise read so it's pretty risky (obviously).

Also thank God for auto sweetspotting and "snaking" up walls when you're recovering. I do admit the "sliding on the ground" for the remaining distance with Farore's if you do it from the air now is... sort of a mixed blessing to me? It's got it's pros and cons. Like, it makes it a tad unpredictable for yourself, especially if you do it too close to the ledge. And it makes "aerial Farore" sniping people's silly stuff a bit tougher because you might accidentally overshoot behind them or something. But on the other side of things, it can make recovering a tad bit more bearable if you absolutely can't go for the ledge. Just some food for thought.

Overall I'm lovin' the new breezy Farore's though!

- Dear God Din's. It definitely feels a tad bit nerfed from my perspective. It feels.. kinda clunky? The explosion doesn't seem to happen -that- instantaneously, like it has a split second before it seems to actually explode. Also hrm, it really doesn't feel like it goes as far as I remember and the control seems a bit more restricted? Not to mention less of an explosion radius...

It's never been that great a projectile but, it has it's moments every so often. Like baiting an airdodge then follow up with a prompt fair or something or, you sometimes get that lucky blast. Not something I would really rely on though.

- Phantom Knight has been a tad underwhelming for me. For crying out loud, I just hate it when a full charge whiffs people DIRECTLY beside me, sometimes even the low charge one whiffs every so often. I guess it can be sorta good if you know your opponent's got no 2nd jump and a punishable up B if they tried to do it from high up. That can sort of be a pretty safe "knight trap" so to speak, but against someone like Dedede or Villager? I dunno about that.

- Seriously, the circle pad is just killing me. Give me a gamecube controller already please.

- I air dodge into the ground -way- too often. Brawl habits are gonna be the end of me if I'm not careful. It's been getting better though.

- Zelda -CAN- do a short hop > airdodge > lagless landing if you time it right. You gotta do it pretty closeish to the start, but it's possible. Thanks to CT Zero for that actually (I got it from one of his videos about it). I haven't used it much on her, but at least the possibility is there.

- Dash attack is your friend most of the time.

- Hurray for reliably quick grabs this time around.

- Offstage gimping is your best friend. Seriously, use her Dair when you can. I'm honestly trying to develop my off stage game a lot more due to the overall safety of returning to the ledge now. Be brave, and ye shall be rewarded. Also edge trumping people as Zelda is pretty much a -horrible- position for your opponent, so keep that in mind too.

Just a little insight on my experience so far. I hope it isn't too unreasonable or outlandish, haha. It's been fun as heck so far at least!

 

[BJN39]

Nice post ^

About din's fire, according to Aero, the move has lost about 25% of its travel distance, and about 30% of its blast radius. Apparently, the maneuverability is still very close to Brawl's, it just SEEMS worse. It will only travel the maximum arc of like 75% of brawl's arc or something.