Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Berserker.]

Just play Diddy.

Just play Diddy.

.......

Seriously, Diddy's f-air. Really?

 

[Soul.]

I'm away from home so I tried playing FG on my 3DS and it's a disaster lol. I can barely MALLC on here, I'm so used to the Wii U version and the Gamecube controller smh


ORAS Greninja is like the Diddy of Pokemon. It has no reliable counters >_>

More 3DS johns omg

 

[Berserker.]

The 3DS is the best controller imo

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

More 3DS johns omg

3DS CONTROLS ARE MAKIN ME DIE THO

 

[Locke 06]

So, I need a new topic for the Mega Man MU discussion.

Candidates:
or (because it'd be fun)
or (because of actual interest from people on the MM boards)
(Because people are worried about ledge camping and they're dumb. Mega Man is one of, if not the best at dealing with ledge camping with his projectile DAir that goes through EBT)
(Because non-default specials)

Thoughts?

 

[Berserker.]

So, I need a new topic for the Mega Man MU discussion.

Candidates:
or (because it'd be fun)
or (because of actual interest from people on the MM boards)
(Because people are worried about ledge camping and they're dumb. Mega Man is one of, if not the best at dealing with ledge camping with his projectile DAir that goes through EBT)
(Because non-default specials)

Thoughts?

Discuss

 

[Furret]

3DS CONTROLS ARE MAKIN ME DIE THO

see people say things like this, then they hear a kazoo cover and they usually die of laughter shortly after
I still haven't listened to this, I fear for my life

 

[Lavani]

banana doesn't mix with lemon
lemon is good with fish

has current relevance, will make you guys feel great about yourselves, I find myself wanting to recommend for no real reason.

 

[Locke 06]

Discuss

I don't wanna. We already visited those two early (too early imo... because their metagames have developed a lot since late December). Plus, people still don't understand uthrow>uair fully or know the dtilt stuff for Diddy. Same with a lot of Sheik's shenanigans.

banana doesn't mix with lemon
lemon is good with fish

has current relevance, will make you guys feel great about yourselves, I find myself wanting to recommend for no real reason.

Lemon is good with fish. Also, I am leaning towards for no real reason as well.

The issue is that we get posts like this:

You can play mind games with Pit. Try dropping your MB and run in and do a dash attack or grab ( Most pit players I fight against in FG mode usually get tricked by the metal blades). Do some B reverse and You can also edge guard him by using leaf shield and footstooling him. I personally find the pit MU to be fairly easy.

Which can be changed to:

You can play mind games with Sheik. Try dropping your MB and run in and do a dash attack or grab ( Most Sheik players I fight against in FG mode usually get tricked by the metal blades). Do some B reverse and You can also edge guard him by using leaf shield and footstooling her. I personally find the Sheik MU to be fairly easy.

and I just... wonder why I encourage MU discussion.

 

[Lavani]

I guess jab, ftilt, and nair aren't the only lemons you've got to deal with.

 

[FullMoon]

@elusiveTranscendent I follow your tumblr and you reblog the best things.

 

[Locke 06]

@ Lavani you wouldn't happen to know the frame data for item tossing would you?

ALSO, did anyone else see how they're treating cancer with polio and it's working? So crazy cool.

 

[Berserker.]

I don't wanna. We already visited those two early (too early imo... because their metagames have developed a lot since late December). Plus, people still don't understand uthrow>uair fully or know the dtilt stuff for Diddy. Same with a lot of Sheik's shenanigans.

I was just joking

I'd discuss if I were you

 

[Lavani]

@ Lavani you wouldn't happen to know the frame data for item tossing would you?

ALSO, did anyone else see how they're treating cancer with polio and it's working? So crazy cool.

I wouldn't, sorry.

I saw your post about that in CCI, completely blown away that that's a thing, let alone that it works. Science is amazing.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Just play Diddy.

.......

Seriously, Diddy's f-air. Really?

To be fair Pikachu's hurtbox extends.

Also hi

I missed 40 pages.

 

[Ffamran]

Posting this here too, 'cause, well... Stuff.

I finally, finally understand why Falco's Up Smash whiffs so much. Thanks @Nammy12 for SSB4 Falco's move gifs.

WARNING: Long winded explanation; just read the first paragraph if you're not interested in the rest.

Spoiler

Can't tell? Look at the pink arc. Yeah, it's arcing not like Fox's or Yoshi's backflip which covers their entire front and looks like they're arcing "flatly", but diagonally around him which means: Z-axis dodging shenanigans. In Training Mode, you can - well the 3DS version can, I'm not sure about the Wii U version - use the "Hold L" speed option. Instead of holding it, tap it and watch Falco's Up Smash snapshot to snapshot. Before that, watch his charging animation; Falco twists himself so he can backflip while turning to hit with the heel of his right foot then his left - weird wording, but I hope you understand what I'm saying. This also explains why he lands differently than Fox and SSB4 Yoshi's Up Smash.

Look at Fox's Up Smash. Yoshi's is pretty much the same thing along Brawl Wolf's Dash Attack and Falco's old Up Smash from Melee and Brawl. All three turn to face the front with Fox preparing to kick with his both feet at the start then his right leg for the rest of the move - this probably explains the sweet-spot -, Yoshi preparing to kick with his left leg, and Wolf preparing to kick with both feet, but only Fox and Yoshi land facing forward on both feet while Falco lands right foot first and kneels down to let his left foot land since it "lagged" behind for the second hit. All three also kick with the front part of their feet. Thank @Zelkam for Fox's Up Smash gif.

Funny enough, Brawl Wolf's Dash attack had him landing like Falco, but he performed the kick similarly to Fox, Melee/Brawl Falco, and SSB4 Yoshi. Thank @TheWolfBackRoom for the Brawl Wolf gifs.

Brawl Wolf's Up Smash had him turning, spinning, twisting, or whatever you want to call it; Sonic's Uair was the same. In other words: it covered a radius around Wolf before pulling people in to the "scissor cut". I say Brawl Wolf because for all we know, if Wolf returns, he might not have that Up Smash. I mean, look at Falco and his changes in SSB4. Or even Pikachu who has different animations in SSB4.

SSB4 Falco and Brawl Wolf (and Sonic) had beautifully animated and flashy Up Smashes - Uair for Sonic -, but in practice, Brawl Wolf's would beat SSB4 Falco's because of that horizontal coverage (Z- and X-axises) whereas SSB4 Falco's Up Smash covers partially the Z- and X-axises. It really, really sucks since Falco's Up Smash is one of my favorite moves animation-wise; Sheik's Down Smash is another favorite since she breakdances while fighting.

 

[Locke 06]

Hmm... DK. We'll do him after Fox. And then after that we'll do Villager. Yes. Plan set for the next week and a half.

 

[Lavani]

Just play Diddy.

.......

Seriously, Diddy's f-air. Really?

like aerodrome said, it's really pikachu's fault

dude pancakes so hard during quick attack

 

[Kofu]

I mentioned this to @SolidSense a while ago but I once fought a FG Pikachu whose general strategy was literally Thunder Jolt -> Quick Attack -> FSmash. He did use other moves more as we played but I almost always beat him. There's a reason I'm a fan of big, meaty, claws hitboxes. I also beat him in Pikachu dittos... and I don't use Pikachu much.

Apparently I missed MU discussion? Did it involve ?

I wonder how many people here know how bad Luigi's DA in Brawl was. I'll.put out the question before elaborating.

 

[Meru.]

Okay I just fought a Pikachu who abuses Quick Attack like crazy for the first time.

How am I supposed to deal with that again?

Nayru's poops on Quick Attack.

Dude, even newborns have the right answer for this.

Two of them.

One on each hand.

Yeah.

I hate Pikachu.

EDIT: I think I poorly delivered that one, so I'll just say it.

The middle finger bruh.

lolol I couldn't figure it out so I initially thought you wanted to strangle him.

 

[Lavani]

It's heartbreaking watching a Zelda die because they hit the ledge with Farore's but not at the spot to ledgesnap, and end up teleporting straight up helplessly.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

like aerodrome said, it's really pikachu's fault

dude pancakes so hard during quick attack

the **** is this

 

[Trieste SP]

Guys, are there any notable Zelda mains other than Nairo and Ven ?

 

[Rizen]

^Ed aka Scary.

Would anyone in the states like to wifi?
Edit nvm, darn bad timing.

 

[Trieste SP]

^Ed aka Scary.

Any footage ?

 

[Lavani]

the **** is this

longchu lives one frame at a time

 

[Furret]

the **** is this

clearly string

 

[Ffamran]

I seriously have no idea why Falco's Up Smash is so messed up. Not hitting at the back on short and crouching characters is okay since it happens to Fox and Yoshi too, but the first hit... A base knockback of 30 isn't that much (right?), but at a certain point, hitbox 3, it has a BKB of 80 and at frame 9, it has a BKB of 0. Hitbox 0 and 1 have a knockback growth of 20, hitbox 3 with 30, but hitbox 2, the frame 9 hit, has a KBG of 100.

Falco's first hit on Utilt has a BKB of 0 and a KBG of 100 for the frame 5 and 6 hits and their hitboxes. Part of me is wondering if Up Smash had a BKB of 0 would fix its problem of sending people too far and causing the second hit to whiff.

 

[|ven|]

I was on stream a lot in todays tournament but I lost most u .u but I have footage at least.

 

[HeroMystic]

So watching a stream and I got bored, so I decided to copy @ Berserker. and give a short synopsis on Mario.

Spoiler because LONG.

Spoiler

In my personal opinion, Mario is between Rank 10 to Rank 15 in this game. At first I thought Rank 15 to 20, but when I actually looked at the roster, I couldn't find many characters I felt were better than Mario.

Characters I feel are better than him: Diddy, Sheik, ZSS, Pikachu, Sonic, Rosalina, Luigi, Fox.
Debatable: Metaknight, Falcon, Villager, Pacman.

Mario is a deceptively deep character in this game. Everything in his moveset have a time and place to be utilized and there is not one piece of him that should be forgotten.

Honestly, I believe the most important aspect to Mario is movement. This is where every low to mid level Mario player fails to utilize and it shows by how easily they get decimated by other characters. This should be obvious, but Marios should avoid being still as much as possible. They always want to have some form of movement that'll always make their opponent be reactive rather than proactive.

Mario is a quick character with the 2nd best frame data in the game, having superior attack speed against the super majority of his opponents. The very large strength is set back by his poor range. He almost always is at a disadvantage in footsies unless up close (another reason why constant movement is important), which means checking on spacing is really important. It's important to know the range and options of what every character can do, and it's even more important to know which option allows Mario to seize an opportunity.

Bait and dodge. It is super important to understand that for most cases, avoiding attacks is much better than blocking attacks. Running Shield is a strong approach option for a grounded Mario, but ultimately Mario's best options is to avoid hitboxes entirely and win the neutral game with his strong mobility and small hurtbox.

The reason why I say Mario is deceptively deep is because people have this notion that Mario is a simple character. In a way, he is. He has no jank (closest being Cape+FLUDD combo), and no surprises. Almost every other character in this game has some sort of specialty or crutch about them that makes them feared. Mario doesn't have any of that. He just has solid stats with a solid gameplan. The problem is players don't know how to really use his moveset in an effective manner because he's so simple to pick up and play. Once tossed in an competitive environment, players get confused, start to believe he's bad, then goes off to use someone else. And as stated before, a lot of this deals with improper usage of Mario's movement during the neutral game.

Separate Spoiler because RANT.

Spoiler

A lot of players are terrible with Mario. They're so terrible that it honestly makes me mad.

All they want to do is go in and hit people, and they have no idea how to play neutral with Mario. They lack paitence, and they lack the ability to adapt to player habits and exploit them.

They don't understand that 70% of Mario's gameplan is getting past footsies and staying in a character's personal space for as long as possible. Instead you'll just see them endlessly run into stuff and then switch off to another character. This is honestly why I believe Mario is not a good secondary character unless you invest a lot of time and research into him. So many people just don't seem to understand how he works and just plainly have the wrong idea about him.

So for all you lovely readers, here are my recommended Mario players that you should watch (the majority of them you can find in this thread)

1. Ally
2. XeroXen
3. Boss
4. BSP
5. Smasher1001
6. Blacktwins
7. Bo x7
8. Rice

All of them is what I would consider high level Mario players (Ally and XeroXen is what I would consider Top level Mario players). If you want to see some actual strong Mario play, and not these ****ty players that kinda show up to get bodied, I'd recommend looking for them.

 

[Trieste SP]

I was on stream a lot in todays tournament but I lost most u .u but I have footage at least.

Ya did great man !

I cheered for you.

 

[|ven|]

Ya did great man !

I cheered for you.

Thank you so much! ;o; I'm doing my best

 

[HeroMystic]

Ven was the best part of the stream imo.

 

[Trieste SP]

Thank you so much! ;o; I'm doing my best

You are actually one of the reasons I picked up Zelda. The way you played her was so sick.

Hope to see you enter more tourneys.

 

[|ven|]

Ven was the best part of the stream imo.

Thank you so much!!!

I apologize to everyone for kinda getting bopped my last set on stream. It was late and I was tired. I know Johns but \o/

You are actually one of the reasons I picked up Zelda. The way you played her was so sick.

Hope to see you enter more tourneys.

Omg I feel so special ;o; If you ever need any help let me know

 

[Berserker.]

Alright, can anyone tell me what happened in this part. The Shulk player here totally just cancelled his u-smash animation

@ HeroMystic Good analysis! Also, I'll copy your moveset breakdown idea. Soon.

 

[Trieste SP]

Omg I feel so special ;o; If you ever need any help let me know

Thanks man. I will PM you if I need any.

 

[HeroMystic]

Alright, can anyone tell me what happened in this part. The Shulk player here totally just cancelled his u-smash animation

@ HeroMystic Good analysis! Also, I'll copy your moveset breakdown idea. Soon.

Can be two things:

-Lylat's Tilting, which causes characters to aerial for a few frames.
or
-Smash Monado activation animation cancelling U-Smash's animation early.

Feel free to use the idea. It's a slow process, but I think it's a great way to get posters to critically think about their character.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

What characters have the best frame data? I had no idea Mario was second.

 

[Berserker.]

What characters have the best frame data? I had no idea Mario was second.

I was also shocked when I realized how godly Mario's frame data was.